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Forum:Trayvon Martin
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I wouldn't call Trayvon Martin Day "sick and pathetic", but having a public school commemorate a day for someone in a case that has not even begun to be adjudicated smacks at the heart of the spirit of due process. If we accept George Zimmerman's story as accurate, Zimmerman was doing his job as a volunteer, and merely for having asked Trayvon Martin what was he doing, he was viciously beat almost to unconsciousness. If Zimmerman's story is accurate, Trayvon Martin's behavior is savage and commemorating Trayvon Martin is akin to commemorating any other local random thug who thinks it's ok to jump people merely for being talked to. FlamingModerate (talk) 07:26, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
- While I'd say that's basically true, I'd also point out that the chances of Zimmerman's story being 100% true is roughly zero. If Martin were the sort of kid who brutally attacked anyone who asked him what he was doing, he's have a criminal record a mile long. No, the truth is going to be somewhere between what either side says. Personally I think we should move past this case. The original issue was that Zimmerman wasn't charged with a crime. Now that he has been we should let the process work. DickTurpis (talk) 08:18, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
- People do just lash out. I have a small crack in one eye socket to prove it. For whatever reason instead of yelling at me and riding off, a guy who didn't like being told not to ride on the pavement got off of his bicycle, walked back to me, and punched me in the face. The police investigated (put up posters, asked shopkeepers about possible CCTV coverage, etc.) but it's not as though there was a one man crime wave of assaults triggered by people pointing out that his bike should be ridden on the road. Just me. So it went unsolved. He'll probably never do it again. In (parts of) the US, apparently, I could have pulled out a handgun and shot him dead. I am not clear exactly how that's better, but that's the US for you.
- It does seem completely inappropriate for an organisation to pre-judge things in this way. Martin is dead, which is unquestionably bad. But a lot of other black kids are dead. Probably in the time since Martin died several more have drowned because nobody taught them to swim (black kids are disproportionately likely to die this way compared to whites in the US). That seems like something a school might want to address without jumping the gun on due process. 82.69.171.94 (talk) 09:14, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
- Well, there's a big difference between a single punch to the face and a potentially fatal beatdown. People tend not to respond to an "excuse me sir, might I ask what you're doing?" with the latter. If I had to guess, and it's purely a guess, I'd tend to think the N-word was involved here. That can set people off. In any case, Zimmerman got out of his car (after being told not to) and confronted Martin, which must make him at least in some capacity the instigator of the fight that ensued. I don't know exactly how these stand your ground laws work, but I don't think they allow you to pick a fight with a random guy and then shoot him when you start to lose. DickTurpis (talk) 11:22, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
- I think whatever your opinion on the Trayvon case (which probably shouldn't be discussed in this thread lest we go even more off topic than usual), JPatt's wording is incredibly bad and offensive. And I'm not someone who likes using the word "offensive" with regards to speech. X Stickman (talk) 09:42, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
- Please excuse my right-wing deficiency in racial sensitivity. I don't care if Andy removed the sick and pathetic part, it still is. Elementary school children, really, they need to know about this tragedy? Black on black violence is reality in America that needs to be discussed. [1] Goober BMcP cries racist in 3..2..1 MudPie --99.108.68.168 (talk) 13:51, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
- Not sure it's a matter of whether they need to know or not. It's all over the news. They know. -- Seth Peck (talk) 14:23, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
- (EC)Congratulations, you've said something so absurdly racist that you've forced someone who has assiduously avoided this page (and mostly succeeded) for 4+ years of RWing to respond. "Black on black violence is reality in America that need to be discussed." No shit. You want to know the source of that violence? White people, who created and perpetuate the system that allows and encourages that violence. Like white men with guns, including but not limited to the cult of "law enforcement" that Zimmerman so clearly thought he belonged to. Blue (is useful) 14:24, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
- Claps. if you only come here to say that, "you go, girl!!!"--
Godot 16:22, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
- Claps. if you only come here to say that, "you go, girl!!!"--
- (EC)Congratulations, you've said something so absurdly racist that you've forced someone who has assiduously avoided this page (and mostly succeeded) for 4+ years of RWing to respond. "Black on black violence is reality in America that need to be discussed." No shit. You want to know the source of that violence? White people, who created and perpetuate the system that allows and encourages that violence. Like white men with guns, including but not limited to the cult of "law enforcement" that Zimmerman so clearly thought he belonged to. Blue (is useful) 14:24, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
- The problem of black on black violence should not deflect attention from the deep racial - and racialist - divisions and tensions revealed by the Trayvon Martin case. If adults do not discuss and explore the issues with kids, particularly younger kids, the little ones will come up with their own, distorted interpretations and reactions. Pretending it never happened is easy enough to suggest from a middle class white perspective, but it is not an option. — Unsigned, by: 82.23.153.159 / talk / contribs
Blue (is useful) 14:31, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
- "The source on black on black violence is white people." Blue you blow, I bet you were serious when you mentioned that. Do elementary kids follow the news Seth? They don't know who Trayvon is. Adults need to discuss and explore black on black violence with kids, not racial divisions. Then again, it is Malcolm X Elementary. mud pie--99.108.68.168 (talk) 15:10, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
- Rather than focussing on one aspect, perhaps the whole issue of violence needs to be discussed and explored, especially with regards to the issue of inequality in American society.
Генгисevolving
16:05, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
- I may blow, BON, but you're a racist, plain and simple. "Kids shouldn't learn about systemic racism! They should learn about why blacks are so violent to each other!" Blue (pester) 16:16, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
- Trust me, BON, black kids know exactly where they stand in teh US. what their chances are or aren't. and nothing parents "say" will change that. Especially in the south, where it is the sad reality that no matter how much legal equality a minority is given, he or she lives in the shadow of always being "less than". Gay, woman, hispainc or black, you will never feel equal and no amount of "talking" will change that. and for what it's worth, echoing what the others have said better, "black on black violence" has nothing to do with being black, and everything to do with being poor, powerless, and 2nd class. Godot 16:27, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
- White guilt of liberals is just plain funny. Blue, at least I don't proclaim love for another man's hairy asshole. Y'all fake your tolerance for others, I know that none of you have more than one black friend. Bunch of self-righteous bigots. Mud Pie --99.108.68.168 (talk) 17:15, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
- Trust me, BON, black kids know exactly where they stand in teh US. what their chances are or aren't. and nothing parents "say" will change that. Especially in the south, where it is the sad reality that no matter how much legal equality a minority is given, he or she lives in the shadow of always being "less than". Gay, woman, hispainc or black, you will never feel equal and no amount of "talking" will change that. and for what it's worth, echoing what the others have said better, "black on black violence" has nothing to do with being black, and everything to do with being poor, powerless, and 2nd class.
- I may blow, BON, but you're a racist, plain and simple. "Kids shouldn't learn about systemic racism! They should learn about why blacks are so violent to each other!" Blue (pester) 16:16, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
- Rather than focussing on one aspect, perhaps the whole issue of violence needs to be discussed and explored, especially with regards to the issue of inequality in American society.
- "The source on black on black violence is white people." Blue you blow, I bet you were serious when you mentioned that. Do elementary kids follow the news Seth? They don't know who Trayvon is. Adults need to discuss and explore black on black violence with kids, not racial divisions. Then again, it is Malcolm X Elementary. mud pie--99.108.68.168 (talk) 15:10, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
- Not sure it's a matter of whether they need to know or not. It's all over the news. They know. -- Seth Peck (talk) 14:23, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
- Does Skin clour cause people to be violent? Probably not. The macho culture of under achieving lesser educated males does. No matter what colour they are. Auld Nick (talk) 17:17, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
- "Black persons, percent, 2010 (a) 12.6%"
- "White persons not Hispanic, percent, 2010 63.7%"
- [2] Nihilist 17:20, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
- yah, i dont have many black friends, this would be because the part of my city i grew up in was predominantly white; and I've met few non-white people with the same interests as me. such a racist. --il'Dictator Mikal 17:23, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
- My neighborhood is about 2/3 black. I'm not sure how much this systemic racism is to blame. I know it's a part of it. Black culture has failed so many in my neighborhood. I don't think any of the problems should be ignored. There is literally a blight on the majority of these people. Occasionaluse (talk) 17:47, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
- I had a black friend, once. We called him Darkie McMinorityThief. Sometimes we let him into our house. X Stickman (talk) 17:51, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
- My neighborhood is about 2/3 black. I'm not sure how much this systemic racism is to blame. I know it's a part of it. Black culture has failed so many in my neighborhood. I don't think any of the problems should be ignored. There is literally a blight on the majority of these people. Occasionaluse (talk) 17:47, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
- yah, i dont have many black friends, this would be because the part of my city i grew up in was predominantly white; and I've met few non-white people with the same interests as me. such a racist. --il'Dictator Mikal 17:23, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
- Please excuse my right-wing deficiency in racial sensitivity. I don't care if Andy removed the sick and pathetic part, it still is. Elementary school children, really, they need to know about this tragedy? Black on black violence is reality in America that needs to be discussed. [1] Goober BMcP cries racist in 3..2..1 MudPie --99.108.68.168 (talk) 13:51, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
Really, "white guilt"? There's a reason you only hear racists of varying degrees ever mention crap like this - it's because the idea is something that only people whose worldview is clouded with racist ideology can identify with. No, I don't speak out against racism because of some sort of guilt. Nor do I in the name of tolerance, which is a loaded word that implies some innate conflict where there is none. I do it because I'm empathetic of the plight of fellow humans whose only crime was to be born in the wrong place, with the wrong skin color. I do it because I see the utter injustice of it all. And I do it because I grew up in an area in the US where - despite the fact it was the 1990s and not 1960s or before - racism and segregation were very real, destructive forces. Q0 (talk) 18:50, 30 May 2012 (UTC)