Talk:Ayn Rand

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Racism

What kinda racism did she advocate and where? Seems kinda odd to me, I knew she's a crank, but not that kinda of crank.--Kugelschreiber (talk) (mail) (block) 21:54, 21 June 2016 (UTC) 21:54, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

She hated Native Americans... Laurogeita Hamabost (talk) 21:54, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

Proof. Citation needed. Sure, she said "racism is the lowest form of collectivism" and she absolutely hated collectivism, but I'm sure you have some proof hidden in there somewhere. Or not.

http://www.salon.com/2015/10/14/libertarian_superstar_ayn_rand_defended_genocide_of_savage_native_americans/ https://memegenerator.net/instance/24952363 https://www.pinterest.com/pin/455989530999859237/ Enough? Laurogeita Hamabost (talk) 22:02, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

If you want to listen to her own voice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAka-tA5Ojw there you go Laurogeita Hamabost (talk) 22:05, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

You've gone beyond your admitted 5 seconds of googling and achieved 10 seconds worth. Very nice sources, showing exactly the opposite of what you want. Which is funny considering that Salon despises her for her economics and therefore after the fact went on a crusade to "prove" that she is racist so that her despised economics could be ignored.

The Salon article made a mistake though. After a whole bunch of decontextualized quotes, they made the mistake of including the speech as a whole. Oh my, she condemned slavery. She did say that she doesn't consider race because she considers the individual, and that is the "wrong" way to be against racism. But she starts it out with saying the writers of the constitution were wrong to tolerate slavery.

I suppose you may think you have a point on the Native American part of the speech. Except she didn't argue for genocide, which is your key point. She argued for property rights. Now her education on native lifestyles was insufficient, but then it was insufficient everywhere the year that speech was made. I suppose we can fault her for not having a 2016 education. Given what she did know, she still didn't advocate genocide, she advocated colonization and property rights.

I congratulate you, that additional 5 seconds of google, doubling your search time, almost found something.132.3.61.81 (talk) 22:25, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

Her speech is almost completely "anti-racism is the real racism" dogwhistle nonsense. By the definition of racist that everyone else uses, she is racist.KrytenKoro (talk) 18:28, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

Good. Are we done here? Laurogeita Hamabost (talk) 18:33, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

Someone should probably add the links to sources posted here to the article as refs.--Kugelschreiber (talk) (mail) (block) 18:38, 28 June 2016 (UTC) 18:38, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

One can be against slavery and still be a racist. Petey Plane (talk) 18:42, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

Racist

She described racism as the lowest form of collectivism. And it should not be a mystery here what she thought of collectivism. Show some proof before adding that back.^{— Unsigned, by: [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] / [[User talk:{{{1}}}|talk]] / [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]]}

She was racist as hell Ayn Rand on arabs: "The Arabs are one of the least developed cultures. They are typically nomads. Their culture is primitive, and they resent Israel because it’s the sole beachhead of modern science and civilization on their continent. When you have civilized men fighting savages, you support the civilized men" ikanreed ^{You probably didn't deserve that} 22:00, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

Hm, yes, she criticized their culture. Obviously she was talking about their genetics. That's okay though, those who desperately want her to be racist in spite of insufficient proof think locking the page constitutes proof.132.3.61.81 (talk) 22:05, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

You may not use the word racism the way a normal person uses the word racism. To ensure we are talking about the same thing, please give your working definition of racism and an example of a racist statement and/or person. Laurogeita Hamabost (talk) 22:31, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

I'd bet a fiver that you never see the BON give an example. --Castaigne2 (talk) 16:03, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

She said that and then did the exact opposite.^{— Unsigned, by: MasterofLogic / talk / contribs}

New Fountainhead Adaptation?

According to this [1] interview with Holywood Reporter, Zack Snyder said he is working on another adaptation of The Fountainhead. Should we mention this? RoninMacbeth (talk) 16:02, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

Mens rea?

Mens rea is the Latin for 'guilty mind'. I suspect that the phrase mea culpa ('my fault') was what was intended to appear at the end of the Branden discussion. Before I change it, I was just asking if something else was intended. - Smerdis of Tlön, ^{LOAD "*", 8, 1.} 16:24, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

As I understand it, the point of the article saying "mens rea" where it does is that Branden — by apologizing for "contributing to that dreadful atmosphere of intellectual repressiveness that pervades the Objectivist movement" — is giving an admission of guilt, and admitting that this is the case pertaining the 'atmosphere' of Objectivism. As such, I think "mens rea" can be left in the article as-is.

Also, "mea culpa" wouldn't really work, because he's fairly clear that he 'merely' played a part in causing the dreadful atmosphere. As such, he's not conceding that it's his fault. Just admitting that the atmosphere exists today. Which is, really, all that we needed to hear. My two cents. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 20:26, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

Atlas Shrugged question

In the hideaway how soon would this or similar happen (because 'the government' hasn't been paid to put in the necessary tubes')? Anna Livia (talk) 11:08, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

The other Atlas Shrugged question being: If Rand was so smart how come she didn’t foresee the post-WW2 explosion in air travel? Mr Larrington (talk) 00:41, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

Her influences

One thing I notice about her is that she was always begrudging about her influences. I've seen her described as bargain basement Nietzsche - that is partly true, but she diverges from him too. The only influence she admits is Aristotle. But who else? She obviously read *some* other philosophy, but what else?

Someone rightly talks about "a photo negative of Leninism". She was obviously influenced by Marxism-Leninism if only to react against it. Presumably her America worship is also influenced by some thinker or another.-Albannach (talk)