Talk:Enoch Powell

One of the few British politicians with instant recognition by use of first name alone. (Are there any other notable non-biblical Enochs btw?) ^{— Unsigned, by: 82.198.250.2 / talk / contribs}

Enoch 'Knocker' West, who played for Man. United, and received a life ban for fixing a match with Liverpool. --Scherben (talk) 17:30, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

Another BoN rant

yeah, the guy pointed out that letting huge masses of people into a country without their consent and allowing them to set up distinct communities without having to integrate would lead to cultural degeneration and stagnation. He pointed out that English customs and traditions would be undervalued, that it would change education in favor of political correctness rather than an actual education concerning the classics and that it would become taboo to celebrate the ethnic, cultural, historical and Christian heritage of England without hearing cries of bigot or racist. He also pointed out that there would be extreme racial tension and that without any pressure to integrate the immigrant populations would become violent and entitled. He pointed out that state funds to immigrant groups would only make them more demanding and entitled and would not help educate or integrate them but merely make them dependent. That they would them attack everything about England and attempt to destroy it using the excuse that they had been "exploited" and so therefore had the right to forcibly change England and have the old culture expunged. What an asshole. Boy, was he wildly inaccurate. Now that I've discovered the idiocy of this place known as rationalwiki I could probably spend the rest of my life refuting all the nonsense they peddle in the name of rationality but then I would never sleep.^{— Unsigned, by: 173.22.37.6 / talk / contribs} 09:00, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Did this BoN ever do what they said? Anna Livia (talk) 18:15, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

I doubt it. I see a lot of rhetoric, but no citations. According to the ONS, the UK is still 86% white (https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/articles/ethnicityandnationalidentityinenglandandwales/2012-12-11). 2A00:23C7:99A4:5000:7023:533:E0AA:A779 (talk) 02:52, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

'All mou, no trou/all mouth no trousers' is the phrase. Too long after to justify a drink. Anna Livia (talk) 10:18, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

While you read this rant, whenever you see the phrase, "He pointed out" replace it in your mind with, "He made the spurious claim that" FairDinkum (talk) 05:13, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Enoch's ghost

... is haunting the BBC radiowaves this Saturday. 109.150.47.104 (talk) 11:42, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

Powell's legacy

He made people discuss their views on the subject/made 'the political leaders' aware that there was support for the viewpoint that he expressed - or at least disquiet about the rate and types of change.

To what extent did the Rivers of Blood speech and the immediate and longer term responses to it actually prevent what Powell predicted? 109.147.90.99 (talk) 09:35, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

In 1971 the Conservatives further restricted immigration from Commonwealth countries; I doubt this satiated Powell or his supporters, but it was certainly a response, although there had been previous attempts at doing so in 1962 and 1968. 86.130.218.163 (talk) 15:35, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

No evidence he was an anti-semite

I can't find any evidence that Enoch Powell was an anti-semite, not even that he was accused of it. It seems inappropriate to have that as a category. Also, he was extremely opposed to Oswald Mosley and gave up his professorship in Australia to join the British Army as an enlisted soldier.

He seems to have kept fairly quiet about Jews and Israel so (as the article says) it's hard to be conclusive about his attitudes. Here's an article from 1969 which mentions Powell approvingly quoting the anti-semite Douglas Reed, which was taken at the time as a red flag for antisemitism.[1] So that's evidence that he was accused of antisemitism, at the least. Powell also promoted the idea that Jesus was murdered by the Jews rather than the Romans, which is a position often associated with antisemitism - blaming Jews for murdering Jesus without any real evidence seems kind of anti-Jewish. Nobody would question that he was patriotic towards a specific idea of Britain, but you can be a British patriot and be anti-German and still be antisemitic (as indeed Reed was). --Annanoon (talk) 10:42, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

anti-Semite is a pretty inflammatory accusation to make that is entirely unsupported within the article. when that article concerns a subject as divisive as powell we need to do a lot better than this. the article you linked to is interesting. it goes out of its way to paint a picture of reed as being clearly and unambiguously antisemetic to such an extent you'd have to question why any one would quote him in the first place. the thing is though, I had never heard of reed. the article acknowledges that reference to reed might go over a lot of peoples heads. the quote, approvingly lays it on way too thick btw, is a little cryptic to me without knowing to what he was referring. a bit of googling later, I feel that while reed certainly was a anti-Semite, I am uncertain of how widespread this information was at that time. powell referred to reed in the 30s, reed gained fame in the 30s for his anti hitler stance in works that were not as overtly anti semetic as they became, with war time censorship keeping a lid on that kind of thing until after the war where when his star had dimmed. so yes, powell quoted an anti semite. but did he knowingly do so? I couldn't tell you. the article with the quote doesn't tell us. it very heavily implies, coming as it did not long after the rivers of blood, that powell is probs an antisemite. we know hes a racist so why question it?

the jews killed jesus thing, and indeed that entire section about his scholarship is a lot more clearcut. all I have seen on the subject tells he did real research with using valid methods, where the concensus from experts in the field disagreed only with his conclusions. no one has suggested any it was all pulled of his arse, and there was not even a hint of a suspicion it was motivated in any way by anti Semitism or to further any political goals. we imply that with no evidence.

one would think with a figure whose influence has loomed large for so long and so controversially, it wouldn t be difficult to find something if there was anything to find. we already think him racist - its all a lot of people probably think of him. nothing gained from dubious accusations but our credibility is harmed. AMassiveGay (talk) 01:18, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

I removing the tag. it can go back in if we can find any actual antisemitism AMassiveGay (talk) 19:52, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

Odd fact

Should there be mention of the incident referenced here (and in other places)? Anna Livia (talk) 18:20, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

The above link has broken - but this could be mentioned. Anna Livia (talk) 18:12, 22 February 2022 (UTC)