Talk:Fascism

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Fascism and the Political Spectrum[edit]

In my opinion it's irrelevant to ask whether or not Fascism is left-wing or right-wing because, historically speaking, Fascism never had it's own political worldview. What makes it Fascism is what it becomes in practice. In Italy, National Syndicalism was more of a bizarre syncretic doctrine, neither explicitly left or right, before an industrialist backed Mussolini co-opted it, ultimately transforming it into a tool of labour suppression and right-wing terror. The same was true of pre-Hitler National Socialism in Germany, which promoted a weird type of pan-Germanism combined with nationalism, anti-zionism and state-capitalism. Under Hitler's leadership it became backed by big industry and was, again, used as a tool of labour suppression and right-wing terror. So it seems to me that considering whether or not Fascism is left or right is placing too much emphasis on proto-Fascism, as well as what is initially preached, rather than what is practiced.

In practice, Fascism is always the same - and one never has to ask whether Fascism is left or right. One only has to look at who the fascists are shooting and for what reason.

China is a fascist state[edit]

@GrammarCommie. I notice that China is not listed as a fascist state among the designated fascist states. Here is an article addressing that question in the affirmative. I am directing this comment to you because fascism is in your interest area, and because I am so ignorant of China. Perhaps you know of an editor with expertise in Contemporary China. Just a thought.Ariel31459 (talk) 18:57, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

@Ariel31459 So, as far as I'm aware the answer is sort of yes and sort of no. Historically the PRC has been Soviet style Communism (sort of), then they went SocDem-ish while maintaining the previous authoritarian flavor (sort of, this was in response to Mao's failures) in the 1960s(?) (I think it was the 1960s, it was definitely the late 1900s) and now they're sort of ramping up the authoritarianism again under Xi, with some reports of ethno-nationalism and other policies. In short, I actually don't know whether the PRC is fascist or just authoritarian. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 23:28, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
The current phase of china, when they reformed from strict Maoism, began around 1978-1979. I just thought I would add that.-Flandres (talk) 23:40, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
@Flandres Thank you! It would have been roughly the 1980s when Dengism became more prominent. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 23:49, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
It would certainly fit into the Red Fascism category. Tuxer (talk) 00:33, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
The PRC has territorial ambitions, but they don't strike me as having the sheer cult of militarism that fascist countries do. Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 00:45, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
I would look for palingenetic signs-that is, talking about the "rebirth" of China. The biggest difference in presentation between leftist and rightist regimes can usually be found there. Is the strongman creating a new society or is he trying to purge the forces that lead to our perfect society declining?-Flandres (talk) 00:57, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Philosophy consistent with fascism[edit]

I recall a famous essay by Bertrand Russell, The Ancestry of Fascism. I invite editors interested to have a look at it. Unless someone objects, I intend to add a subsection reflecting some of the content to the section on Ideology, and possibly elsewhere in the article. To be brief, the essay focuses on the impact of German philosophy on the environment in which fascism later developed. Russell remarks on a number of philosophers of various nationalities; beginning with Kant as a reaction to the rational empiricism of David Hume. He asserts that the basic genealogy of fascism among nineteenth century writers is Fichte, Carlyle, Mazzini and Nietzsche. Ariel31459 (talk) 18:00, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

Needs section on Romanian Legionarism[edit]

Form of fascism that is to the right of Nazism, similar with Ustaše, that focuses on Christian purification as well as National rebirth. Influenced modern day neo-fascist movements. Extremely odious ideology, makes me want to puke. Jakester499 (talk) 03:12, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Red fascism isn't a thing[edit]

@Avida Dollars Amarty (talk) 18:03, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

The similarity was remarkable, especially under Stalin. Avida Dollarsher again 18:21, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
Agree. "Red fascism" should at least be pointed out as an interpretation of the Stalinist-era USSR. Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 19:54, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
We already have an article for the horseshoe theory an another for Nazbol. I agree with Amarty this time. GeeJayK (talk) 19:57, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
Disagree. One of the important elements of fascism is corporatism, which importantly is geared towards class collaboration. This is in contrast to socialist/communist movements which are based on class conflict. It's also worth noting that generally the state leaned more heavily towards the economic interests of the private sector than towards those of the workers. A strong state is also part of the end goal of fascism, whereas state socialism only seeks to use the state as a method of creating communism and expects the state to "wither away" after full communism is achieved since it won't really serve any purpose then. Most of the things listed as similarities are just critiques of authoritarianism, with few if any elements actually unique to fascism. Fascism isn't when you repress and kill people who disagree. The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact is also a bad example, since it can be adequately explained as a means of buying time to recover from the Great Purge. Drhead (talk) 17:31, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
The focus on corporatism is heavily misplaced. Nazi Germany for example mostly privatized and gave businesses handouts rather than any sort of formal class collaboration. Also red fascism doesn't usually get used to mean "state socialism" on its own. People don't call Brezhnev a red fascist. Vorarchivist (talk) 15:27, 10 May 2021 (UTC)