Talk:Hunter Biden
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Edit's Needed[edit]
Definitely need someone to review, the content, but tone is what I'm more concerned about. I also attempted to get the chart Russian MoD presented for the bioweapons claim, but I don't have the right format. @Bongolian@GrammarCommie@LeftyGreenMario@Spud I trust you guys may want to review my work.RipCityLiberal (talk) 18:50, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
Doubleminded introductory paragraph[edit]
The opening paragraph is doubleminded. If Robert Hunter Biden, who is the son of the prominent American politician Joe Biden, received capital he did not earn from foreign actors, why isn't that corruption? JJR232 (talk) 11:30, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
- It might have to do with the tax fraud accusations. Patty Pat 13:34, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
- How much unearned money from foreign actors and domestic interest groups does a relative of a high official have to receive before this article indicates that he is corrupt? The amount of foreign and domestic largess that Robert Hunter Biden has from received from interest groups is extremely large. To give an analogy, if there is thick, dark smoke billowing out of a building, at some point you should logically conclude that there is a fire in the building. JJR232 (talk) 13:43, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
- [citation needed]72.184.174.199 (talk) 14:00, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
- The opening paragraph says: "Robert Hunter Biden (1970–) is an American attorney, second son of current US President Joe Biden, and a convenient right-wing scapegoat for supposed family corruption... To be fair, it's clear that Hunter has taken advantage of his father's famous name to gain access to positions he clearly was not qualified for and capital he clearly did not earn, as well as selling art that objectively isn't good. However, most of the worst things about Hunter's decision don't rise above nepotism or greed and criticism of his actions is certainly questionable coming from certain right-wing personalities." So how much unearned income from foreign and domestic interest groups does Robert Hunter Biden have to receive before the article labels it corruption? That is a fair question to ask. JJR232 (talk) 14:33, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
- Nothing in that paragraph talks anything about "unearned income", "foreign and domestic largess" or "interest groups" that you have accused. Nothing in the above paragraph consists of anything that rises to the level of a "corruption" charge, e.g. bribery, extortion, and the like. It is not illegal to be employed by a foreign private equity fund or a foreign holding company. Favoritism or banking on celebrity is often shit business practice (except perhaps in the marketing department for the later), but it also is not illegal on its own. So, once again, [citation needed]. — Unsigned, by: 72.184.174.199 / talk / contribs
- Just because his name gets him meetings with people/banks/financing, doesn't mean he or his family is personally corrupt. The system perhaps is corrupt. But that isn't Hunter's fault for taking advantage of that.RipCityLiberal (talk) 15:27, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
- The American governmental system is corrupt. Is there any real question about this matter among the U.S. public? Politician after politician vows to get rid of the corruption if he is elected, but it hasn't happened. And once Robert Hunter Biden waded into that system "to gain access to positions he clearly was not qualified for and capital he clearly did not earn" (quote from the opening paragraph), he became a part of that corrupt system. JJR232 (talk) 15:46, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
- Just because his name gets him meetings with people/banks/financing, doesn't mean he or his family is personally corrupt. The system perhaps is corrupt. But that isn't Hunter's fault for taking advantage of that.RipCityLiberal (talk) 15:27, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
- Nothing in that paragraph talks anything about "unearned income", "foreign and domestic largess" or "interest groups" that you have accused. Nothing in the above paragraph consists of anything that rises to the level of a "corruption" charge, e.g. bribery, extortion, and the like. It is not illegal to be employed by a foreign private equity fund or a foreign holding company. Favoritism or banking on celebrity is often shit business practice (except perhaps in the marketing department for the later), but it also is not illegal on its own. So, once again, [citation needed]. — Unsigned, by: 72.184.174.199 / talk / contribs
- The opening paragraph says: "Robert Hunter Biden (1970–) is an American attorney, second son of current US President Joe Biden, and a convenient right-wing scapegoat for supposed family corruption... To be fair, it's clear that Hunter has taken advantage of his father's famous name to gain access to positions he clearly was not qualified for and capital he clearly did not earn, as well as selling art that objectively isn't good. However, most of the worst things about Hunter's decision don't rise above nepotism or greed and criticism of his actions is certainly questionable coming from certain right-wing personalities." So how much unearned income from foreign and domestic interest groups does Robert Hunter Biden have to receive before the article labels it corruption? That is a fair question to ask. JJR232 (talk) 14:33, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
- [citation needed]72.184.174.199 (talk) 14:00, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
- How much unearned money from foreign actors and domestic interest groups does a relative of a high official have to receive before this article indicates that he is corrupt? The amount of foreign and domestic largess that Robert Hunter Biden has from received from interest groups is extremely large. To give an analogy, if there is thick, dark smoke billowing out of a building, at some point you should logically conclude that there is a fire in the building. JJR232 (talk) 13:43, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
To give a more objective measure, out of 180 countries, the U.S. was ranked 27th out of 180 on the Transparency International Corruption Perceptions Index of 2021. President Harry Truman famously said "the buck stops here". At some point, you have to blame the current U.S. president for corruption in his country. Joe Biden has not made anti-corruption efforts a key part of his agenda. Leadership is by example. The USA constantly admonishes other countries for their corruption and other poor behavior, but it is not among the top 10 countries as far as having the least corruption. JJR232 (talk) 16:08, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
- red herrings, no citations... yawn. Incidentally:
- A) Joe Biden's team did issue a memorandum on fighting corruption.
- B) The primary cause for the US's low CPI via Transparency International, as explained here, is "persistent attacks against free and fair elections, culminating in a violent assault on the US Capitol, and an increasingly opaque campaign finance system." Care for some remarks on Donald Trump and Citizens United? 72.184.174.199 (talk) 16:40, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
- A memorandum on fighting U.S. governmental corruption is diddly-squat when it comes to taking action on lowering governmental corruption in the USA. It's like having a company meeting, but the company never follows through.
- Both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump whined incessantly about their respective election losses being unfair. Neither of them shows signs of retracting their claims. American candidates at the federal level have to raise huge amounts of campaign money and their campaigns last far longer than in many developed countries. And those donors want some reciprocation. Furthermore, the military-industrial complex has far more influence in the USA than in other countries. The USA is going to remain more corrupt than the least 10 corrupt countries even if the election fairness issue takes less precedence in the public forum. JJR232 (talk) 17:10, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
- It seems like your issue is about US corruption in general, not about this particular individual. I would say that this talk page is neither the venue for this conversation or the vehicle for which to address these issues. I also think it's very important to hone onto the fact that what many people accuse Hunter of doing is acting on orders from, or to the benefit of Joe Biden. And that is not the case. Also that Joe Biden has sought to remove people investigating Hunter, which is also not the case. Most importantly for me as well, that Hunter's actions have had any direct effect on American foreign policy, which is again, not true.-RipCityLiberal (talk) 20:18, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
- My issue is that the opening paragraph is doubleminded. Hopefully, it will be changed. As more and more information comes out, the article is bound to change. JJR232 (talk) 20:46, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
- It isn't though. The paragraph specifically mentions family corruption. The reason anyone cares about Hunter Biden's life at all, is an assumption that Joe Biden is personally benefitting from Hunter's business, which is false. Joe Biden has never been party to any of Hunter's dealings. If anything this has been a detriment to Joe. Additionally Joe's actions in his capacity as President or Vice-President were not altered by Hunter's foreign business ties. The most his administration has been involved at all is the art piece, which the intent was to limit any possible influence.
- I think your idea of corruption is also skewed, because using an advantage you have, like a family name, to increase you business propositions, isn't illegal. Corruption generally, stems from the power one person holds over another to engage in an illegal action. The quantity and detail of Hunter's business actions are on clear display.RipCityLiberal (talk) 22:09, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
- My issue is that the opening paragraph is doubleminded. Hopefully, it will be changed. As more and more information comes out, the article is bound to change. JJR232 (talk) 20:46, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
- It seems like your issue is about US corruption in general, not about this particular individual. I would say that this talk page is neither the venue for this conversation or the vehicle for which to address these issues. I also think it's very important to hone onto the fact that what many people accuse Hunter of doing is acting on orders from, or to the benefit of Joe Biden. And that is not the case. Also that Joe Biden has sought to remove people investigating Hunter, which is also not the case. Most importantly for me as well, that Hunter's actions have had any direct effect on American foreign policy, which is again, not true.-RipCityLiberal (talk) 20:18, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
- Both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump whined incessantly about their respective election losses being unfair. Neither of them shows signs of retracting their claims. American candidates at the federal level have to raise huge amounts of campaign money and their campaigns last far longer than in many developed countries. And those donors want some reciprocation. Furthermore, the military-industrial complex has far more influence in the USA than in other countries. The USA is going to remain more corrupt than the least 10 corrupt countries even if the election fairness issue takes less precedence in the public forum. JJR232 (talk) 17:10, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
Orban and Lukashenko[edit]
I incorrectly identified Viktor Orban as president, he is indeed prime minister. But BoN chose to identify Lukashenko as president, which I know is his official title, but considering elections are rigged, I feel like dictator is more accurate. I also take umbrage with Orban being identified as an "Russian-aligned dictator[s]". Orban actually is subject to an election, even if his party has virtually complete control.-RipCityLiberal (talk) 17:39, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
Tone[edit]
Is anyone else curious as to the rationale for the more lenient tone in this article when juxtaposed with the article on Donald Trump Jr? 2601:CC:0:4A20:38A5:29D9:960E:A380 (talk) 18:47, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
Problem with the formatting[edit]
For some reason Notes and References appear as subsections rather than sections of the article in their own right. I looked at the source code and nothing seems amiss. Anyone know how to fix this? Vee (talk) 13:51, 25 December 2022 (UTC)