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Talk:Stalin apologetics
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Some anti-tankie argument from fiction, feel free to use it[edit]
"People tawking about how great Stalin was 'defending his country' just don't get it. He wasn't! The first days after Barbarossa started, he sat around uselessly in his Dacha, crying like a lovesick finicchio 'How could Adolf hurt me like that!' And when he finally got around leading a war as he was supposed to: His fans don't get that they have to wonder what anyone else in his position would have done. Do they believe that any other leader of Russia but Stalin would have dropped over and surrendered the moment the first Wehrmacht soldier crossed the border?"
(Sorry for the self-promotion.)--Max Sinister (talk) 22:47, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
Furr and Holocaust deniers?[edit]
https://twitter.com/AgainstDenial/status/1667626943808675840 Chillpilled (talk) 22:03, 11 June 2023 (UTC)
- Even more evidence that Furr is a hack, but that doesn't mean that he's himself a Holocaust denier, I think. We should probably write an article on Furr, this section is too short.. GeeJayKWhere all evil dwells Where every lie is true 23:06, 11 June 2023 (UTC)
- There are some entries about Furr on the Holocaust Controversies blog. They look to be about Furr's treatment of the Katyn massacre mainly. I also stumbled across this interview with the Holocaust Controversies authors about Furr. Chillpilled (talk) 07:31, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
- @Chillpilled Now that's more interesting. I'll take a look when I have time. GeeJayKWhere all evil dwells Where every lie is true 14:53, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
- There are some entries about Furr on the Holocaust Controversies blog. They look to be about Furr's treatment of the Katyn massacre mainly. I also stumbled across this interview with the Holocaust Controversies authors about Furr. Chillpilled (talk) 07:31, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
Just noticed one of the Holocaust Controversies people, User:Sergey Romanov, actually made an account here and had edited Furr's subsection a bit just before I posted this. Neat. Chillpilled (talk) 19:35, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
Tankie deserves its own article[edit]
By this point, we have a category for tankies, several pages that bring them up, and so on. At this point tankies and similar batshit insane internet leftists are worth having pages on (Caleb Maupin is a good example). At this point tankies do more than defend Stalin; they simp for China, Russia, North Korea, and so on, like the article says, and the word does not necessarily have to be used to described a Stalinist. I feel this needs to becomes its own page as opposed to a small section on this page. I'd go ahead and do it myself, but my lack of experience and uncertainty if the higher ups would agree holds me back.
RedAvenger98 (talk) 21:30, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
- Quick question: are they random losers on the internet or people with some level of influence? Carthage (talk) 21:32, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
- I am unsure what you mean by "influence" as it's to vague on what they would influence, but they have similar influence as to AnCaps I suppose? They're a fringe like them, or the various Neo Nazi organizations in the US or what have you. Like they are a fairly visible minority, but they aren't going to really influence U.S. politics anytime soon. Worth noting we have a page on AnCaps, so, I think a Tankie page is fair given both are of similar power. RedAvenger98 (talk) 01:33, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
- there are few notable figures in social media spaces such as the aforementioned "journalist" Caleb Maupin to bloggers like Rainer Shea. I mean they are not terribly influential but you can say the same about half the cranks we reference on this site - Only Sort of Dumb (talk) 02:11, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
- That's my point. We have pages on nonsense like National anarchism that have pretty much zero relevance, but nothing for tankies, despite already having multiple subjects related to them and an entire category. I think this is a sign they need a page, even if it only amounts to a fairly small page. They fit the bill and are already referenced in several areas. RedAvenger98 (talk) 19:53, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
- there are few notable figures in social media spaces such as the aforementioned "journalist" Caleb Maupin to bloggers like Rainer Shea. I mean they are not terribly influential but you can say the same about half the cranks we reference on this site - Only Sort of Dumb (talk) 02:11, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
- I am unsure what you mean by "influence" as it's to vague on what they would influence, but they have similar influence as to AnCaps I suppose? They're a fringe like them, or the various Neo Nazi organizations in the US or what have you. Like they are a fairly visible minority, but they aren't going to really influence U.S. politics anytime soon. Worth noting we have a page on AnCaps, so, I think a Tankie page is fair given both are of similar power. RedAvenger98 (talk) 01:33, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
Instead of "Western communists" it should just say "communists"[edit]
Stalin and other leaders that would be considered tankies (Mao, Kim, Castro, etc.) are more popular among non-Westerners than Westerners. For example, the CPUSA only has 5,000 members (and it is fairly reformist; more revolutionary organizations are probably even smaller) whereas the Communist Party of Kenya has over 46,000 in a much smaller country and is strongly pro-Stalin (they have his face along with Mao and Kim Il-sung in every issue of their newspaper). The pro-Stalin Communist Party of India (Marxist) has at least a million members, possibly more than all Western communist parties combined, and there is also a Stalin Society in Pakistan, major communist parties in Eswatini and Sudan, and a Juche party in Nepal that has been elected to the national House of Representatives. Stalin is also very popular in Russia, although not solely among communists. This article implies that the only communists who support Stalin are Westerners even though the majority are not. Ledlecreeper27 (talk) 19:58, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
Study confirms: tankies no longer critically endangered, thanks to Twitter[edit]
Best piece of research I've stumbled upon in a while (PDF).
Also has relevance to horseshoe theory.
TIL: we call it "stalin apologetics", "tankie" being the technical term for it (per the science literature). 98.128.228.59 (talk) 05:46, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
- That's a preprint, and may undergo significant editing before publication in a journal (where it may even end up with a completely different title). Would be a bit careful about citing it for the time being. Chillpilled (talk) 20:03, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
Michael Parenti[edit]
Actually he does cite sources, though I haven't read the specific chapter "Stalin's Fingers". Elsewhere in the book he cites plenty however (whether he misrepresented them is not something I know about, it's possible, I haven't dug up his exact sources and his citations have a certain vagueness, e.g. "Los Angeles Times, 7/15/94" that could require digging through the entire issue). It's just that the sources he cites aren't scholarly, is one of the critiques. He most usually cites American newspapers from what I recall. Chillpilled (talk) 23:34, 3 January 2024 (UTC)