Debate:Homosexuality

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Alright let's talk about it... There are gay people, but should we be promoting a paraphilia... Here are sexual deviations LGBT does not march for

Abasiophilia Acrotomophilia Agalmatophilia Algolagnia Andromimetophilia Anililagnia Anthropophagolagnia Nymphomania Pedophilia Satyrasis Zoophilia Foot fetishism Voyeurism Necrophilia You get the point... why pick one deviation and start promoting it?--Kingdamian1 (talk) 04:50, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

I'm not googling all of them but if they don't harm anyone I'm fine with it, why should homosexuality not be allowed? Christopher (talk) 10:37, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Because the Bible says so. That's all they've got apart from "I don't like it." Bicycle^wheel 11:26, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

The Bible says slavery is ok, Damian doesn't support that. The Bible says that if you masturbate you should cut your hand off, I'm guessing that Damian doesn't go that far. If you're going to use the Bible as the basis for your morals at least be consistent (although you can never be entirely consistent). Christopher (talk) 11:35, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

the Bible is accurate when you agree with it, and metaphorical when you don't, basically. Bicycle^wheel 11:38, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Or added in years later by deceitful liberals. Christopher (talk) 11:41, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

LGBTQ+ doesn't march for helping people with paraphilias because it would hurt the public image.—チーズバーガー • めん  (talk • stalk) 01:11, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

I'm also not googling all of them, but there's problems inherent in some of those, namely the inability of one party to provide consent. Pedophilia, Zoophilia, and Necrophilia all involve parties that can't legally consetn. Likewise, I don't see anything wrong with foot fetishists; if two of them find each-other and make each-other happy with their feet, that's great, good on them.

Oh, wait, I forgot I'm supposed to hate everyone that's not like me. In which case, sex itself is sin, an evil, and should never be practiced in any way. There was no sex in the Garden of Eden, after all. God said "be fruitful and multiply," and fruits reproduce via an intermediary: pollinators. Clearly God intended us to reproduce via in-vitro fertilization. Satan made the sinful act of physical sex pleasurable to let us stray from the Straight and Narrow. Jesus Himself even condemns allosexuals, saying if you even think about sex that's the same thing as doing it. But it's okay, I know all you allosexuals are making a lifestyle choice, and can readily chose to be asexual like God intended. ;) -- Onychoprion (talk) 14:59, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

NO! The Bible does not say that! Homosexuality DOES EXIST... I am not denying it. But why is it different from pedophilia. Pedophiles (NOT CHILD MOLESTERS), are nice people who have this attraction, and similarly there is no "cure" for them as of yet... Why do we take 1 paraphilia and promote it as normal?Kingdamian1 (talk) 15:08, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Who suggested the Bible said homosexuality doesn't exist? Christopher (talk) 15:12, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Pedophilia is different because children can't give informed consent, the Bible doesn't care about informed consent and is fine with rape. Christopher (talk) 15:14, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Oooh, I get the question, Damian! In which case, yeah, I think there should be support groups and healthy legal outlets for pedophiles, cuz they really did get the short end of the stick from the box of sexualities. It's not a part of the LGBT+ thing because they're two separate issues. On the one hand, stop killing people because of their orientation. On the other, do a bit of reform of the medical system to give help to people who can't chose their orientation and don't want to molest children. -- Onychoprion (talk) 15:21, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Again, I say that homosexuality is a sexual deviation, like any other. The Bible does not say we should kill homosexuals... In times of theocracy (NOT NOW, but when God was leading the people) sexual immorality (adultery, bestiality, and homosexual BEHAVIOR) was punishable by death. Yes people have attractions to the same sex... I suppose you have the urge to fornicate, or, if married, commit adultery... this does not excuse you from immorality--Kingdamian1 (talk) 15:32, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

please explain how homosexuality is 'immoral' AMassiveGay (talk) 15:42, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Well, if you are an atheist, and you have NO MORALS, then I can't... I am talking to people who acknowledge that morals exist!--Kingdamian1 (talk) 15:47, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

how can we be expected to be have morals if you cannot even say what is and isnt moral about our behaviour. weak. AMassiveGay (talk) 15:49, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Well the sanctity of marriage is defiled by gay "marriage". But no one finds this immoral!Kingdamian1 (talk) 15:51, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

(EC)You acknowledge that homosexuality was punishable by death "when God was leading the people", if you don't think it should be punishable by death now surely you think either 1) God has changed his mind (in which case he isn't omniscient) or 2) God still thinks that homosexuality should be punishable by death in which case you are disagreeing with God? Christopher (talk) 15:53, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Every sin is punishable by death... So those who do not repent from their sins (including me and you)... will be punished by second death!Kingdamian1 (talk) 15:54, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

But why is it no longer punishable by physical death? You still haven't explained that. Christopher (talk) 15:55, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."Kingdamian1 (talk) 15:56, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

That quote doesn't actually address the question. Christopher (talk) 15:57, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

whoever believes in him shall not perish (die) but have eternal life..--Kingdamian1 (talk) 15:58, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

I know what perish means, that only applies to believers though, is it only non Christian gay people who still deserve the death penalty? Christopher (talk) 16:00, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

You forgot to capitalise "Him", indicating you're actually an atheist. Christopher (talk) 16:01, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

The sanctity of marriage? Where is that defined in the Bible? I seem to recall a fair few things God condoned regarding. Incest (Abram married his sister, Adam's and Noah's grandchildren married each-other or their aunts/uncles, Lot getting his daughters pregnant) is the most prominent. Jesus was also the descendant of at least one whore (Rahab, I believe), and best friends with another. I dunno, reading the Bible I don't really get a feeling that "marriage" was sanctified, but instead a secular and political institution to standardize the transfer of inheritance. Heck, God even accepted David and Bathsheeba after killing an innocent child in anger! I guess homosexuality is a bigger difilement of marriage than adultery and murder? -- Onychoprion (talk) 16:02, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Don't give Damian more than one post to respond to, it makes it easier for him to dodge the question. Christopher (talk) 16:07, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

I am not dodging anything... My statement is clear... Why not promote other paraphilias? There is no reason to pick on one of those and start promoting it!--Kingdamian1 (talk) 16:15, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

I answered that question, Damian. "[Y]eah, I think there should be support groups and healthy legal outlets for pedophiles, cuz they really did get the short end of the stick from the box of sexualities. It's not a part of the LGBT+ thing because they're two separate issues. On the one hand, stop killing people because of their orientation. On the other, do a bit of reform of the medical system to give help to people who can't chose their orientation and don't want to molest children." Why are you still going on about it? -- Onychoprion (talk) 16:17, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘(EC)You just did though, answer this and this. Christopher (talk) 16:20, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

I am not hating on gays... It must be hard to have non-conventional attractions... It isn't easy. And it doesn't appear to be a choice either... But lust can be controlled!Kingdamian1 (talk) 19:42, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Good! Let's say it to every goddamnned allosexual human being. --It's-a me, 🎄LeftyGreenMario!🎄 20:25, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

I am not a saint either... I struggle with lust too... But I acknowledge my sins--Kingdamian1 (talk) 20:31, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

It's okay, Damian, as an asexual saint, I'll put in a good word for you with the Big Man Upstairs. ;) Onychoprion (talk) 20:41, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

I don't know if you are asexual or not... But not being sexually attracted to anyone DOES NOT make you a saint! If we struggle with pornography, you struggle with different sins!--Kingdamian1 (talk) 20:46, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

All joking aside, Damian, you said "But lust can be controlled!" which yes, I agree is true, which is why I'm all for support groups to help pedophiles, zoophiles, etc., and for healthy release valves (so molesting children/raping animals isn't their only release). But, again, that's a different issue from the LGBT+ community, because they're just trying to get equality. We don't need new clinics, support groups, etc., but just to stop hating the non-existant sin. Homosexuality between consenting adults doesn't hurt anyone. Onychoprion (talk) 21:10, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

What do you mean by equality?--Kingdamian1 (talk) 23:46, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Being able to marry, not being discriminated against if they want to buy a cake, not being beaten up in the streets. That sort of thing. Christopher (talk) 08:03, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

I am AGAINST beating, killing etc. for them... But we should not be changing a holy institution for sexual perversion!--Kingdamian1 (talk) 16:45, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Damian, where in the Bible is marriage explicitly defined as a holy institution? There's a whole lot of incest, rape, and prostitution condoned as righteous, not to mention polygamy. -- Onychoprion (talk) 16:50, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Why don't Christinas kill homosexuals?

(In order to reduce Kingdamian1's capacity for avoiding tough questions by talking about something else I suggest we split things into sections and hold his feet to the fire over each one.)

So the OT has: Leviticus 20:13 "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

And the NT has Jesus saying: Matthew 5:17 " Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven..."

So why do modern Christians "set aside" these commands and not call for the death of homosexuals? --Bob^{"Life is short and (insert adjective)"} 07:53, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

“The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

“The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’

“‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.

“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’

“‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’” Kingdamian1 (talk) 16:45, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

What does that have to do with killing gay people? And surely if Jesus overturned God's commandments from the Old Testament it'd be a Biblical contradiction? Christopher (talk) 17:33, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Yes, your answer is completely irrelevant Kingdamian. Please answer the question asked.--Bob^{"Life is short and (insert adjective)"} 18:25, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

You're starting with a fallacious comparison

Damian, you are starting incorrectly by simply claiming homosexuality is a sexual deviation. Are you saying it deviates from heterosexuality? The only deviation from heterosexuality is that the participants are of the same gender. If that is your definition, I'm rather disgusted that you do not find pedophilia deviant, since a vast majority of child abusers are grown men abusing underage girls. :-P~

More seriously, I think you meant to write: "Homosexual relations between consenting adults who are not into feet differ from heterosexual relations between consenting adults who are not into feet. Why don't we treat that difference the same way we treat how pedophile and foot fetish relationships differ from heterosexual relationships between consenting adults who are not into feet?"

I'd like to start my response by saying: "Nobody hates people with foot fetishes! They are a boon to society because they provide content for late night comedians."

With that out of the way: As Christopher mentioned, we treat homosexuality differently from other things in your list because gay couples are informed, consenting adults. Sheep, children dead people and feet are not. Contrary to what you wrote, any adult having sex with a ten year old is a child abuser; pedophiles are hurting children and are not acting "nice". Intimate, loving, covenant relationships are a gift from God, meant to be a dim reflection of the open, invested, centered relationship He has within the trinity and that He would like to ultimately have with us. That gift breaks and we are hurt and damaged when it is not used properly; it doesn't work if one of the participants can't reciprocate. Please allow me to stretch the "gift" analogy to a ridiculous point: If I give you a toaster and you use as a stepping stool, the toaster will break and you will be hurt (My feelings would be hurt, as well) The same holds true about sex and intimacy . . . IMHO, of course. --Bertrc (talk) 17:50, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

There's no need to compare raping a child to using a toaster as a stepping stool. Christopher (talk) 17:56, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Mea culpa. fully agreed and acknowledged. Sorry. Editting now --Bertrc (talk) 18:06, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

References

Slippery slope is bullshit

Homosexuality is perfectly natural. People say gay marriage starts the slope, but they forget one thing: technically, if the slope existed, straight marriage would've started it, not gay marriage. —(((вιgℓʝвιgℓ))) (ᴛᴀʟᴋ/sᴛᴀʟᴋ) 03:03, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

I don't buy your slippery slope argument, but animals can be gay, which debunks the "not natural" argument.—チーズバーガー • めん  (talk • stalk) 03:06, 9 September 2017 (UTC)