Talk:Conservative Party (UK)

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Douglas Carswell

Welp, he's just become UKIP's first elected MP, hasn't he? Might wanna add something saying "enough of a wingnut to defect to UKIP" 174.77.38.227 (talk)

Misleading

for the record, i am far from a tory supporter, but i find this article misleading, namely the section listing individual mps and their positions on varying issues.

i dont doubt that the positions stated positions are accurate, my issue is that taken in its totality, it makes it look like the tories are on the verge of banning abortion and stripping the gays of rights, all the while pushing homeopathy like labour isnt just as bad on that score.

abortion will not be banned by the tories or even made harder to get or what have you. its simply not an issue and as such there is no opportunity to doing with it. where it is an issue is n. ireland. there its not an issue stripping away reasonable abortion laws its about making abortion law reasonable and in line with the rest of the uk. the debate is whether parliament should impose this or leave to a referendum in n. ireland. its only really an issue now because brexit and the minority government gives the unionists more power than they would usually in parliament. and even that wouldnt be too much of an issue if northern ireland assembly hadnt collapsed and not sat for over 2 years.

its the same situation with lgbt rights. any issues are about bringing them in line with the rest of the of country.

Parliament will not be asked to decide any of this and on mainland uk, its pretty much a done deal mps had their say a while ago on and whatever their views then or now there is no push to step backwards. the focus on these issues here seem very americentric.

homeopathy is not really much of a issue either. with the issues facing nhs its a sideshow and i'd rather some homeopathic options available if it means it increases public support. after all, giving someone sugar pills for something that would clear up on its own, and is cheaper that actual medicine while avoiding the image of an uncaring nhs refusing to treat your life threatening (a cold) malady. labour is just as bad here - corbyn is a fan.

Long story short - too much weighting on irrelevant non issues while ignoring the really egregious views that some have that they are actually in a position to influence. AMassiveGay (talk) 14:25, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

I don't see how it's misleading. There's a lengthy section on actual Tory policies, and the section on individuals is titled "wingnuts", strongly implying that they're the eccentrics and outcasts: if anything, they're less marginal than the article suggests. You can hope that they're unlikely to repeal gay rights or abortion. However there have been repeated attempts (including by MPs) to reduce the time limit for abortions and make it harder to get abortions; England still doesn't have abortion on demand but requires the charade of 2 doctors judging it would cause harm to the mother to continue pregnancy[1]. There are increasing protests outside abortion clinics.[2] But that's only semi relevant. As for homeopathy - it's a good surrogate for attitude to science and evidence-based policymaking. If you want to see more homeopathy, I'd suggest you're at the wrong website. If you think there's something else that should be in the article, there's nothing to stop you, but I don't get what you want done - deleting the list of MPs would be bad. --Annanoon (talk) 16:38, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

ok, none that addresses what i said and does not convince me that these are particularly pressing issues out side of n.i. as homeopathy,i'll say again - its a side show. the nhs has much much bigger issues. no i am not worried about these rights being repealed. its rights derived from the eu i'm more concerned with.

again. i will repeat - its totality of it. the list of mps is fucking huge. it says they are wingnuts, but its half the entire article. it gives the section more weight than it warrants and bar a couple most of them do not need a mention at all - particularly when whats mentioned ignores more relevant criticism - and theres so many listed here its unlikely ever to be current. AMassiveGay (talk) 19:58, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

Category:Authoritarian wingnuttery?

I don't think the Conservative party is so authoritarian as the Republican Party of the United States. During Margaret Thatcher's days the Conservatives were authoritarian. But is the current Conservative Party so authoritarian in international standards? I honestly disagree. (However, I accept that the Conservative party is economically laissez-faire. That is why "Libertarian Wingnuttery" is an appropriate classification.)

It is not clear that the British Conservative Party is a social conservative line. Rather, it is just a faction within a political party and a liberal stand over the French Republican Party and the Christian Democratic Union in Germany on the issue of sexual minorities.

I honestly believe that 'Authoritarian Wingnuttery' should be removed. Current Prime Minister Boris Johnson is also not a Trump-class ultra-rightist racist, though he is a populist. In fact, the mainstream liberal parties in East Asia are more conservative and authoritarian in social and cultural issues than the British Conservatives. Nor does it appear to be an authoritarian party by international standards, much more moderate than the U.S. Republican Party.

The bottom line is that Britain's Conservative Party has not deviated much from its center-right bias. Even in the English Wikipedia department, it is rated as a simple center-right. (I may think this because I live in conservative East Asia.)

The UKIP documents, which are crucially more right-wing than the Conservatives, also did not have the category "Authoritarian Wingnuttery." Rather, I think it should be removed from Conservative documents and added to UKIP documents.

Of course I hope you don't misunderstand me. I am not a conservative but I am a supporter of Bernie Sanders. But when it comes to party orientation and category classification, I think we should remain neutral in the opinion of mainstreamers and focus on uncovering the irrationality of the policies that the conservative party is making.

I didn't remove the category because I was afraid that it might be misunderstood as a half month.--BluePink (talk) 07:07, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

For now, the category was removed. I think it is right to attach that category to UKIP, not the Conservative party, given its social conservative ideology or political position.--BluePink (talk) 00:11, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

list of mps

we dont need a list of every tory mps ever. we dont need to document every opinion they have ever had as if it were official tory policy and not something floated once but never went any where. and 'prominent' doesnt mean 'used to be'. needs serious culling.

honestly, i wish the true believers, of the right and left variety, would at least try to pretend they are capable of giving an honest account of uk politics or at least pretend they actually understand it. AMassiveGay (talk) 12:30, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

I detest these kinds of lists. Heavily reduce or cut entirely, I say! Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 12:32, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

its easier to cut entirely than figure out who to keep. i think i'll go ahead and do that. notable torires can be readded on a case by case basis. people should think about why they are notable and realise, for the purposes of this article, that it means more than 'currently in the news' before they do put anyone back in. AMassiveGay (talk) 13:00, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

Fuck you, this is petty vandalism. The onus is on you to delete clearly irrelevant stuff. I just added some relevant material about authoritarianism which you deleted. Either sort it or I'll revert your entire edit. --Annanoon (talk) 13:25, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

it was all irrelevent AMassiveGay (talk) 13:28, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

and if priti patel required thatt mu?ch column inches she should have her own article 13:31, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

and no mention of britain unchained? ha AMassiveGay (talk) 13:33, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

Why shouldn't an article on the Conservative Party list prominent Conservative Party politicians? --Annanoon (talk) 09:11, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

policies

this looks like a potted tory history and a poor one at that. i think its meant to represent current tory policy but im not sure what its purpose is really, when on race it talks more about enoch powell and some arse that misses the point concerning class than, say, the on going windrush scandal.

documenting current policy is always going to be dated imho so should cover should cover more the broadstrokes than anything too in depth on specific policy. historically this should be broken down to 'origins/pre war', 'postwar', 'thatcher, including post thatcher', 'post brexit ie. current policy/thinking'. post brexit is embroiled with the pandemic and is going to a lot more speculative.

as it is i'd delete the lot (i would with our labour party article too) but i just not up to doing the necessary work to replace it, so i'll leave it as it is, obvious wank though it is. AMassiveGay (talk) 13:22, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

I agree, in the respect this could do with a decent re-write. It's now on my little list. KarmaPolice (talk) 09:52, 20 April 2023 (UTC)