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User talk:KarmaPolice
Bongolian (talk) 21:28, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
Fellow Radiohead nerd?[edit]
Rockford the Roe boop my snoot 19:52, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
- Arrest this man. CorruptUser 17:58, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
- I confess, I prefer the video for 'Paranoid Android' much more. Even now, I still don't know what it means. KarmaPolice (talk) 17:47, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
- Paranoid Android was one major song that got me into alt rock. Might have steered my brother towards diverse metal as well, it's that cool of a song, and the animation didn't take any early 90's animation fans by surprise. I wonder if the saloon bar is trying to consolidate what doesn't add up, if Karma is getting strange edits, I'm actually against it. Torrent (talk) 07:14, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- I confess, I prefer the video for 'Paranoid Android' much more. Even now, I still don't know what it means. KarmaPolice (talk) 17:47, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
Autopatrolled[edit]
Because of your edits to and time on the wiki, Autopatrolled has been added to your user rights. This lets you bypass most of the abuse filters, bypass the CAPTCHA, and edit more frequently. If you have questions, bleat ask away.
We hope you enjoy your newfound POWER — and these external tools:
- Google Scholar Button (Chrome, Firefox) searches your highlighted text in Google Scholar. Easily check academic citations!
- web.archive.org and archive.today, among other tools, can save permanent copies of webpages. Never lose a crank website or racist Tweet ever again! Monet Ye 12:48, 27 December 2021 (UTC)
Do you support Pride Month?[edit]
You said in your bio: "Or being proud of things about me I have no control over. Might as well be 'proud' of being left-handed." Does being proud of being gay fall into definition? Epic Games (talk) 09:33, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
- I am admittedly ambivalent towards it.
- - Firstly, I stand by my UserPage quote. But for the exact same reasons I'm not ashamed either, and nor should anyone else.
- - I'm unapologetically a bit of a 'stiff-assed Brit' but kinda realise just because it's not my cup of tea some other folks might enjoy having a shindig.
- - I question the existence of an 'LGBT community'. It's now too large a grouping, which means it's 'community' is minimal. Things like this are often dominated by an unelected, unrepresentative 'leadership'.
- - It's become corrupted by capitalism. It's become a way for corporate interests to polish their social justice halos, to flog more product to a 'special market'. Yeah, like I'll overlook all the other crud you do simply 'cos you put a rainbow on a product or donated 1% of sales profit for one day to Stonewall.
- - It promotes division than inclusion. Us, the LGBT folks and you, the normies and all that.
- However, when all the above is said, I suspect it's more misnamed than anything else. Pride - if done right - does help raise visibility for issues which normally are kinda ignored for the rest of the year. For the early pioneers, I think 'Pride' made more sense as a name because they *were* proud - for the actions they took and the difficulties they faced to be themselves, in the face of heavy legal problems and much stronger active hostility from much of the population. Similar, it's hard to dump on current binary-trans person's pride (for example) for that because they've gone through a lot of effort/pain to get to where they are now, and you can't diss that.
- It could be said, my view is similar to 'Conjoined Fetus Lady' in South Park when she bitched about her parade/awareness week, but unlike her appreciate the motivations for Kyle's mother in wanting to hold it. KarmaPolice (talk) 12:39, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
- I do think lefties need a bit of rallying around sometimes. There's even sites about it, see here. The world is not catered to their preferences. Right-handers usually aren't aware (and btw the whole ordeal of left-handed people is a good starter kit into learning about critical race theory and the ideas that you can not really be aware of systemic issues affecting so many things and you might even take part in them, unless they're laid bare). They have to pay extra for golf clubs, guitars, baseball gloves, comfortable scissors; writing in English was awkward and asymmetrical student desks were intrusive; computer mice isn't for them, button mashing on game controllers is real awkward. On top of it, southpaws were legally persecuted around the world, with people still remembering that they were punished as kids for using the "devil's" hand and were forced to use their other hands. In Japan, there were documents that husbands could legally divorce their wives if their wives are lefties. Our own languages even reflect the attitudes against "left". IDK it's pretty extensive. Hell left-handedness is the basis of my username to begin with, a sort of identity I thought was important when I was 14 and making the first internet identity. We made so much progress for rights for left-handed people, to be treated equally, to the point people think it's just a mundane identity. --It's-a me,
LeftyGreenMario! 02:11, 31 December 2021 (UTC)
- Luckily, we never had those desks in the UK - in my case, the problem was if you were put on the right of a two-person table/desk, or worse on the left *but* right next to a wall. And being forced to learn how to write in ink with a sodding calligraphy pen of all things, being flogged through handwriting practice books which I could only 'do properly' if I slowed right down and gave myself huge hand-cramp... yeah, thanks for reminding me of that.
- I do think lefties need a bit of rallying around sometimes. There's even sites about it, see here. The world is not catered to their preferences. Right-handers usually aren't aware (and btw the whole ordeal of left-handed people is a good starter kit into learning about critical race theory and the ideas that you can not really be aware of systemic issues affecting so many things and you might even take part in them, unless they're laid bare). They have to pay extra for golf clubs, guitars, baseball gloves, comfortable scissors; writing in English was awkward and asymmetrical student desks were intrusive; computer mice isn't for them, button mashing on game controllers is real awkward. On top of it, southpaws were legally persecuted around the world, with people still remembering that they were punished as kids for using the "devil's" hand and were forced to use their other hands. In Japan, there were documents that husbands could legally divorce their wives if their wives are lefties. Our own languages even reflect the attitudes against "left". IDK it's pretty extensive. Hell left-handedness is the basis of my username to begin with, a sort of identity I thought was important when I was 14 and making the first internet identity. We made so much progress for rights for left-handed people, to be treated equally, to the point people think it's just a mundane identity. --It's-a me,
- Anyway, it's never really been a big thing for me - usually only getting pissed when due to stupidity they've made it worse than it should be. Or when I come across a clear 'screw you' decision, like when a work bought a consignment of right-handed 'ergonomic' mice.
- But it is a decent way to introduce the concept of 'diversity of needs' to smallish children, using a example only the most reactionary and cranky would object to. However... would the 7/8 year-old Karma have appreciated all the extra attention as being (if I remember right) the only sinister one in class? Thoughts of 'Conjoined Fetus Lady' in her parade of one comes to mind. In this case, having me conveniently 'absent' for that bit would be in order.
- But the important thing is; why doesn't RationalWiki have a 'handiness' page? KarmaPolice (talk) 04:19, 31 December 2021 (UTC)
- Yeah, it's not a super big deal, these are mostly inconveniences. Those ergonomic mice do sound like nightmares, but my worst enemies are those "ergonomic" scissors. I can wing regular scissors with my preferred hand, sometimes, but those scissors force you to use the other hand. Also, some wacom tablets are very difficult to use due to their designs, BUT you get to use the mouse and draw with the tablet at the same time, maybe right-handers ought to use their other hand every now and then, huh? I also hate those asymmetrical spoons in hot pot joints where they funnel and pour only from one side, but made for right-handed people, so I'm holding a bowl and I pick up these stupid spoons and realize the sauce/soup goes out the other way.
- I can somewhat relate, yeah. You notice all those right hands being used in restaurants and you just feel special you're using the other hand, even though in reality, people really don't pay attention.
- I was wanting to create an article on handedness actually, since there's a bit of folklore associated and oppression stuff as well as well as superstitious stuff used to justify mistreatment to people, but yknow, I'm bogged down with moderation and arguing with people. --It's-a me,
LeftyGreenMario! 04:36, 31 December 2021 (UTC)
- Yeah, but them 'inconveniences' can add up to get to be hugely grating, just like years of vague bullying, general ostracism and a 'don't give a crap' mentality from the staff at school can lead up to said kid desiring firearms and a pipe-bomb manual.
- But the important thing is; why doesn't RationalWiki have a 'handiness' page? KarmaPolice (talk) 04:19, 31 December 2021 (UTC)
- Anyway, with the handiness page, well, what needs to be said (at least at RW)? The main one I can really think of is to highlight the simple fact that the 'accommodations' required in the grand scheme of things are not that much and a refusal generally makes you look like a lazy dolt (there are a couple of now-obsolete reasons for discouraging left-use, such as the days with metal nib pens and inkwells). The historical etc stuff could be mainly be cut/pasted off Wikipedia, unless there's a standing rule we can't at least use it as a base for an article. KarmaPolice (talk) 12:06, 31 December 2021 (UTC)
- Interesting take. Thanks KP. BTW, favorite album is OK Computer. Epic Games (talk) 04:22, 31 December 2021 (UTC)
- Well, I'm a European socialist, not a N American progressive. My 'angle of attack' is completely different. KarmaPolice (talk) 12:06, 31 December 2021 (UTC)
Russia and Ukraine[edit]
So which of Putin's inner circle do you think is behind this? ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 19:48, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
- why not putin himself? hes convincedukraine is rightfully part of russia and hes not going to get a better time to make it happen now with much of europe dependant on gas and the us arent going to go in, and before the weather turns against him. word is he wants to install a pro russian government in kyiv AMassiveGay (talk) 23:04, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
- @AMassiveGay I mean it's possible, but last I heard Putin was delegating management of Russia's efforts in Ukraine to Surkov. Except that Surkov left the Kremlin in 2020, meaning I'm unsure who, exactly, is managing this current bout of aggression. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 01:37, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
- What is this, amateur Kremlinology night?..
- @AMassiveGay I mean it's possible, but last I heard Putin was delegating management of Russia's efforts in Ukraine to Surkov. Except that Surkov left the Kremlin in 2020, meaning I'm unsure who, exactly, is managing this current bout of aggression. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 01:37, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
- My gut says the person behind this in 'the inner circle' is named Vladimir Putin.
- I say this with precious little evidence or even much knowledge of the wider political scene at the moment; I am merely basing it on the fact Putin appears to be psychologically closest to Stalin in a line-up of previous Russian/Soviet autocrats. And Stalin would never have let an underling to have the freedom to do something as serious as courting a major war - it would be run past him, *at every step*. Putin, it appears [unless it's all propaganda] to also have the classic autocrat hubris/paranoia mix which leads to such micromanagement. Lastly, this whole affair reeks of opportunism and Stalin was nothing but an opportunist. KarmaPolice (talk) 10:42, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
- speaking of stalin, i like the part in putins essay where he hand waves away holodomor and accuses radicals of 'mythologising' it. AMassiveGay (talk) 10:50, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
- @KarmaPolice It's strongly believed by intel agencies and other observers that Putin's power is not as absolute as he'd like the West to think. Instead of power being centered only on him, it's spread amongst him, some direct underlings (Surkov and Dugin come to mind immediately), the Oligarchs and business elite, and then to the "normal" politicians, if the lattermost get any power at all. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 13:53, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
- while his power may well not be as absolute as is often suggested, it may be not so much a case of 'powers behind the throne' but more officials and the like acting without and/or against putin's own wishes. the fact that putin is so vocal on ukraine i think indicates that he is most definitely the prime mover here. i think one putins strengths, such as they are, is keeping the oligarchs in line to some degree. that certainly played a part in him coming to power in the first place. lets not forget several oligarchs have been imprisoned or fled russia on corruption charges of varying merit. its not absolute power, but putin has means to keep them in line - not least assassination AMassiveGay (talk) 14:15, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
- a linkAMassiveGay (talk) 14:19, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
- Who's suggested Putin's got absolute power? Yes, he's an autocrat but not only does he have to balance the needs/wants of the other 'powers' in the country but also the fact any of his policies shall have a % of 'pushback' from the chain 'o command, that % depending on how much inertia-resistance is being deployed [standard Russian technique for disobeying The Boss; never outright resist/contradict, instead 'lose' documents, 'misunderstand' orders, 'forget' stuff/people etc, running stuff into the sand and hoping The Boss simply forgets to follow-on - they did this even to Stalin.]
- But Putin has deployed a lot of his personal authority / political capital to this crisis of his own making. It's a powerful game of chicken he's playing, and the problem is not only can he *not* turn out of massive loss of face at home but the fact he's in a bulky 4x4 with metal bull-bars and we're in a crummy hatchback made of plastic and Biden's scared of going over 30. So my conclusion is this; Putin risks more climbing down than going through with it. Thus, we need to give him an off-ramp.
- Therefore, I'd offer Putin the same as the UK got with it's Brexit deal; something which has literally just enough for a fig-leaf saving of face for domestic consumption, but everyone in the know knows it was at best, a draw. Or 'rain stopped play'. The only thing I can think of is the assurance that NATO has 'no desire' to admit members which 'currently have active border disputes' [or words to this effect]. It's an ambigious line which *could* be taken to mean a promise not to allow Ukraine into NATO, but does not say a word about a form of de facto 'association'. Putin gets a piece of paper to wave, and the West hasn't thrown Kiev under the Russian bus. KarmaPolice (talk) 20:57, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
- a linkAMassiveGay (talk) 14:19, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
- while his power may well not be as absolute as is often suggested, it may be not so much a case of 'powers behind the throne' but more officials and the like acting without and/or against putin's own wishes. the fact that putin is so vocal on ukraine i think indicates that he is most definitely the prime mover here. i think one putins strengths, such as they are, is keeping the oligarchs in line to some degree. that certainly played a part in him coming to power in the first place. lets not forget several oligarchs have been imprisoned or fled russia on corruption charges of varying merit. its not absolute power, but putin has means to keep them in line - not least assassination AMassiveGay (talk) 14:15, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
- @KarmaPolice It's strongly believed by intel agencies and other observers that Putin's power is not as absolute as he'd like the West to think. Instead of power being centered only on him, it's spread amongst him, some direct underlings (Surkov and Dugin come to mind immediately), the Oligarchs and business elite, and then to the "normal" politicians, if the lattermost get any power at all. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 13:53, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
- speaking of stalin, i like the part in putins essay where he hand waves away holodomor and accuses radicals of 'mythologising' it. AMassiveGay (talk) 10:50, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
- I say this with precious little evidence or even much knowledge of the wider political scene at the moment; I am merely basing it on the fact Putin appears to be psychologically closest to Stalin in a line-up of previous Russian/Soviet autocrats. And Stalin would never have let an underling to have the freedom to do something as serious as courting a major war - it would be run past him, *at every step*. Putin, it appears [unless it's all propaganda] to also have the classic autocrat hubris/paranoia mix which leads to such micromanagement. Lastly, this whole affair reeks of opportunism and Stalin was nothing but an opportunist. KarmaPolice (talk) 10:42, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
The American right[edit]
Re: They aren't conservatives. Hell, they aren't even proper reactionaries. They stand for nothing except empty words. Nothing more. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 20:24, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
- I know that. My point was a studied insult; saying they suck to my lights means nothing, but saying they don't even measure up to old-school conservatives is another entirely. I couldn't see Ike doing that. Or Nixon. Even Reagan. Hell, not even Stan Smith. Plus, I think it's a possible wedge issue to peel off the neocons from the MAGA ass-hats.
- But did you *have* to remove my 'reasons you suck' bit? I enjoyed doing that. KarmaPolice (talk) 21:06, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
- When they try to dodge, the best approach is to hold them down until they stop squirming and actually address the matter. And the answer is, as it almost always is, the belief that America is special in some way shape or form. That's why they say this stuff. By "they" I mean advocates of imperialism in general, including campists and tankies. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 21:23, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
- Yeah, you know that's not going to work. Though I'd argue it's more Trumpian 'neo-isolationism' rather than imperialism; a view borne from living in a land rich in natural resources, ringed by two wide oceans and patrolled by the world's largest navy. At least in this case. Still has the parochialism and American exceptionalism, just turned inward than out. KarmaPolice (talk) 07:22, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
- When they try to dodge, the best approach is to hold them down until they stop squirming and actually address the matter. And the answer is, as it almost always is, the belief that America is special in some way shape or form. That's why they say this stuff. By "they" I mean advocates of imperialism in general, including campists and tankies. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 21:23, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
Have a 'John Major'[edit]
![]() |
'John Major Award' |
This is for you, sexypants! Bananana (talk) 15:03, 31 July 2022 (UTC) |
If this is supposed to be an insult, it's a failure because I don't get it. KarmaPolice (talk) 15:28, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
A polite request[edit]
I provided some additional evidence as far as our discussion. For example research on the causes of great civil unrests (revolutions, etc.). And I provided additional argumentation.
Also, it occurred to me that you are the one who made the claim that no money could be cut from the UK budget. As a contributor to a website which affirms that evidence must be provided for claims or they should be greeted with skepticism, you do have some obligation to show that nothing can be cut from the UK budget because it is allegedly down to bare bones. I would very much welcome such evidence if you can provide it. Otherwise, at least acknowledge that you cannot support this claim. DePieper (talk) 02:22, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
- RE; There is no 'discussion'. You have a complete inability to actually stay on-topic, which is partly due to the fact your actual knowledge of the topic is almost nil. One of your very few points (cut education by 50%) has already been answered by both myself and Annanoon why it is a political impossibility (if nothing else) - even from a solid neo-Thatcherite govt.
- You bitch that it's up to me to prove the cuts cannot be done. No, it isn't - the burden of proof here is on you, as the proposer of slashing budgets to find tax cuts to the wealthy. Complain all you desire about me re-asking the same question, but the point is simple - you never answered. Your cherry-picking of stats doesn't even work, for example the UK doesn't have the same costs and demographics of Singapore. Has the UK made historical errors economically? Sure. But guess what; that's not the topic either.
- As a 'lawyer', you would surely notice when a person was deflecting, distracting and avoiding answering in general. You think I'm too stupid to notice this, and to ignore your tears when I call you out on it? Claiming that I was going on about 'revolution' was also incorrect, as you - and any other remotely impartial reader - fully well know. I spoke of 'societal breakdown'; and if you look at a few articles on BBC News, you'd see why.
- Don't worry, this didn't take long to write. And I'll scrub any reply you do to this; for this isn't an invitation to discuss, it's a sign that I can answer you, but after this point chose not do (due to it being a complete waste of my time). KarmaPolice (talk) 20:18, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
Sysop[edit]
Because of your edits to and time on the wiki, wizard Sysop has been added to your user rights. Feel free to let your newfound POWER course through your veins. Once the high wears off, see RationalWiki:Sysop guide for more information. If you have questions, bleat ask away. Vee (talk) 18:04, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
- You've been here for ages, I don't know why you weren't given this lol. Vee (talk) 18:05, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
- Probably because people already thought they were a sysop. The only reason why I haven't is because I thought they were one. GeeJayK (talk) 18:12, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
- Yeah, me too until I decided to look at their user groups out of curiosity (I'm nosy, I know, sue me). Suffice to say it I was surprised. Vee (talk) 18:14, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
- Finally got round to using said powers... blocking a KenSock. Did one do right? KarmaPolice (talk) 12:20, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
- Yeah, me too until I decided to look at their user groups out of curiosity (I'm nosy, I know, sue me). Suffice to say it I was surprised. Vee (talk) 18:14, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
- Probably because people already thought they were a sysop. The only reason why I haven't is because I thought they were one. GeeJayK (talk) 18:12, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
Yo motherfucker[edit]
Some dickhead nominated you for mod or some shit. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 06:35, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
- Oh no... what did I do to deserve that? KarmaPolice (talk) 12:22, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
Hey[edit]
Just wanted to say hi :) Wheelsontheancom (talk) 16:13, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
- A very belated hi in return! [Sorry, didn't notice, sorry!]. KarmaPolice (talk) 19:45, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
Hi! :)[edit]
Hi KarmaPolice! My name is TheFrench! I hope you enjoy the rest of your day, whereever you are! TheFrench (talk) 10:36, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
My most favourite album is Kid A[edit]
Smiley face Ψ (talk) 03:14, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
You keep saying 'minimizing'[edit]
I don't think I know what minimizing means. Would you please explain it for me? Torrent (talk) 06:49, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
- No, I don't - I say 'minimising'. And is your Google broken or something? All the dictionaries been pulped where you are? KarmaPolice (talk) 10:23, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
- Cool thing to knock down, language works on dictionary rules, I guess. Please define it without... Wait, without... Not outside... Minimising, did I spell that right? The question. My dictionary has... hold on, has... well, kinda.. A definition. There we go, Of minimising (you like that). That defines.... Nouns and verbs, I don't get it, you're using it in language. I'm asking you to do the opposite and I'm the dumb one? Torrent (talk) 04:58, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
- 'Noun. The reduction of something, especially something undesirable, to the smallest possible amount or degree.' Thus; 'Republicans are busy minimising the Jan 6th putsch attempt as being nothing more than a peaceful protest that just had a few "exuberant spirits" within it who technically broke a very minor law or two.' It is a classic tactic for those who defend the status quo to try to play down as much as possible the Shit Thing so to justify not doing anything about it. KarmaPolice (talk) 16:31, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
- Okay, but... I mean I actually saw a guy who supported it shove another guy in real time, as it happened on the day. I stepped in. it wasn't because I agreed with the the guy shoving, It was because I knew the guy wasn't gonna shove me. He knows our beliefs are different, and he knows I'd never push or punch him. He could kick my ass up and down. What I won't respect was his response to a disagreement. Torrent (talk) 04:50, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
- I genuinely have no idea the context of the above is. KarmaPolice (talk) 14:37, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
- Okay, but... I mean I actually saw a guy who supported it shove another guy in real time, as it happened on the day. I stepped in. it wasn't because I agreed with the the guy shoving, It was because I knew the guy wasn't gonna shove me. He knows our beliefs are different, and he knows I'd never push or punch him. He could kick my ass up and down. What I won't respect was his response to a disagreement. Torrent (talk) 04:50, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
- 'Noun. The reduction of something, especially something undesirable, to the smallest possible amount or degree.' Thus; 'Republicans are busy minimising the Jan 6th putsch attempt as being nothing more than a peaceful protest that just had a few "exuberant spirits" within it who technically broke a very minor law or two.' It is a classic tactic for those who defend the status quo to try to play down as much as possible the Shit Thing so to justify not doing anything about it. KarmaPolice (talk) 16:31, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
- Cool thing to knock down, language works on dictionary rules, I guess. Please define it without... Wait, without... Not outside... Minimising, did I spell that right? The question. My dictionary has... hold on, has... well, kinda.. A definition. There we go, Of minimising (you like that). That defines.... Nouns and verbs, I don't get it, you're using it in language. I'm asking you to do the opposite and I'm the dumb one? Torrent (talk) 04:58, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
Mod notice[edit]
You've been nominated in the upcoming moderator elections. See the nomination at RationalWiki:Moderator elections/Nominations.
Carthage (talk) 12:47, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
Header quotes[edit]
How do you feel about me using quotes from fictional material on a page if it's appropriate for/relevant to the page's content in question? BJA2112 (talk) 19:38, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- Difficult to judge without seeing the context. My rule of thumb would be to generally avoid it, mainly on the basis there's not many fictional works which you can reliably expect the majority of readers to at least know of - but I am not going to run in and rip it out if 'it works'. Can't say how any others would act/view it, though. KarmaPolice (talk) 20:26, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- I opened up a discussion on this on the Mod noticeboard. Bongolian (talk) 20:55, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for the heads-up; gave my tuppence. KarmaPolice (talk) 21:53, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- I opened up a discussion on this on the Mod noticeboard. Bongolian (talk) 20:55, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
I first read these words when I was 19/20...[edit]
I was on my lunch break, sitting outside the shitty factory where I toiled for the minimum wage. I can almost quote the whole thing off by-heart. I always felt like my mind was being read, as if this whole paragraph was written just for me.
He meditated resentfully on the physical texture of life. Had it always been like this? Had food always tasted like this? He looked round the canteen. A low-ceilinged, crowded room, its walls grimy from the contact of innumerable bodies; battered metal tables and chairs, placed so close together that you sat with elbows touching; bent spoons, dented trays, coarse white mugs; all surfaces greasy, grime in every crack; and a sourish, composite smell of bad gin and bad coffee and metallic stew and dirty clothes. Always in your stomach and in your skin there was a sort of protest, a feeling that you had been cheated of something that you had a right to. It was true that he had no memories of anything greatly different. In any time that he could accurately remember, there had never been quite enough to eat, one had never had socks or underclothes that were not full of holes, furniture had always been battered and rickety, rooms underheated, tube trains crowded, houses falling to pieces, bread dark-coloured, tea a rarity, coffee filthy-tasting, cigarettes insufficient - nothing cheap and plentiful except synthetic gin. And though, of course, it grew worse as one's body aged, was it not a sign that this was NOT the natural order of things, if one's heart sickened at the discomfort and dirt and scarcity, the interminable winters, the stickiness of one's socks, the lifts that never worked, the cold water, the gritty soap, the cigarettes that came to pieces, the food with its strange evil tastes? Why should one feel it to be intolerable unless one had some kind of ancestral memory that things had once been different? — George Orwell, 1984 |
Not... really sure why I felt the need to drop that here, but I am feeling sleep deprived right now so I suppose that will suffice as an explanation.
Have a good one. - Rairyu75 (Talk) 01:04, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- Heh. I first read 'confessions of a book reviewer' while sitting at around 2AM in a room which very resembled the one described, knowing I needed to slap together about 7.5k of notes/fragments into a fully complete essay on Orwell into a 20k Meisterwerk A-Level essay in about 28 hours. And just like the reviewer, I hit the target with about three mins to go, partly by ditching all pretenses of being interesting and just bolting together cliche after dead metaphor after stale phrase and throwing in the occasional quote which vaguely fit what I was trying to say. KarmaPolice (talk) 14:45, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
Board nomination[edit]
Some guy nominated you or something. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 14:43, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
About the Saloon Bar[edit]
I don't really understand the protection? I don't think there have been many spammers coming there because of the election, unless by spammer you mean BoN. TheOneAndOnlyCirrusMan (talk) 19:27, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
- A little pre-emptive, I know. And I did say 'semi-spam'. Just that two accounts all showing up to take dumps at the same time/place. I could see the atmosphere getting shit quick [plus there was at least one other which got scrubbed by Duce (I believe) which you ideally missed]. There's enough despondency/anxiety going on in the next week without those folks adding to it. KarmaPolice (talk) 19:49, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
- You mean the guy who was planning to kill themselves if Trump won? I saw that, but who are the other two you're talking about? TheOneAndOnlyCirrusMan (talk) 20:11, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
- Mr 'Oh everyone I know is flipping to Trump' and Miss 'all polling is over-favourable to Democrats'? KarmaPolice (talk) 20:15, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oh, right. TheOneAndOnlyCirrusMan (talk) 21:09, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
- Damn, I'm a long-time lurker who just made an account & wanted to share my two cents. Guess yall think I'm another sockpuppet troll? Couldn't you just delete everything thats obviously a troll? TheForlorn (talk) 21:22, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
- It's pretty easy to get an account autoconfirmed - it's just to stop drive-by trolls with brand new accounts for these last few days. RW tradition says that unless good reason is given, troll comments aren't wiped, though they often are collapsed. KarmaPolice (talk) 21:35, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oh, right. TheOneAndOnlyCirrusMan (talk) 21:09, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
- Mr 'Oh everyone I know is flipping to Trump' and Miss 'all polling is over-favourable to Democrats'? KarmaPolice (talk) 20:15, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
- You mean the guy who was planning to kill themselves if Trump won? I saw that, but who are the other two you're talking about? TheOneAndOnlyCirrusMan (talk) 20:11, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
Nominated[edit]
You've been nominated in the upcoming moderator elections. See the nomination at RationalWiki:Moderator elections/Nominations.
—cosmikdebris talk stalk 20:24, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
Nice ...[edit]
... work on metrication in UK! Scream!! (talk) 00:37, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- Heh. I wasn't intending to split it off from the main metric system article, but I quickly came to realise there was simply too much to cover and I couldn't actually find any decent coverage elsewhere on the SuperWeb. Now someone needs to do America, Canada, Oz and NZ... though I think the page is close to Bronze quality.
- But at least younger readers will understand why the fuck we sell 454g jars of jam and 227g bags of coffee [aka soft metrification]. KarmaPolice (talk) 13:26, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
Post-normality[edit]
What are your thoughts on this "manifesto for a post-normal world"? Carthage (talk) 20:43, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
- I've never heard of it until now. I'm a bit snowed under with RL at this moment but I'll take a look and reply as soon as I realistically can. KarmaPolice (talk) 20:50, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
Question[edit]
You mentioned here that you grew up in a cult; Can you elaborate on this, if you don't mind me asking? I'm genuinely curious. TheOneAndOnlyCirrusMan (talk) 18:33, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- If I mention it, it means I don't mind chatting about it [and I have mentioned it before in the SB in passing]. Anyway, they were Pentecostals. It wasn't an 'extreme' version of that variant, but now looking from the outside I can spot a load of cult-like attributes. Any particular reason you're curious? KarmaPolice (talk) 19:25, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- I'm just a naturally curious person, if someone says 'I was in a cult once' you bet I'm gonna want to learn more. TheOneAndOnlyCirrusMan (talk) 00:31, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- Fair enough. Anything you're particularly curious about? KarmaPolice (talk) 00:38, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- Idk honestly. TheOneAndOnlyCirrusMan (talk) 16:45, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- Fair enough. Anything you're particularly curious about? KarmaPolice (talk) 00:38, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- I'm just a naturally curious person, if someone says 'I was in a cult once' you bet I'm gonna want to learn more. TheOneAndOnlyCirrusMan (talk) 00:31, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
Delete my account[edit]
You people have been so hospitable to me as a new user. Thank you, feels great to be labeled a troll the moment I created an account here.
Delete my account. I want no involvement with this site any longer, and I will promptly tell everyone I know that this site is absolute garbage, and the people here are extremely condescending and downright hostile to everyone who's not apart of their insular echo chamber. Buh bye. JoyousJerboa96 (talk) 16:00, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- While even now I want to give this user the benefit of the doubt, like Luna did, the way they reacted certainly isn't helping their case here. TheOneAndOnlyCirrusMan (talk) 16:49, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- The fact that I did offer 'constructive advice' on how to deal with the issue. I also did give some doubt-room, esp at the start - there might have been some particular event(s) which caused such an outlandish swing, it might be 'a couple of MAGA-hats loudly derailing events with their monomania', the 'detractors' might have self-exiled etc. I in fact started to poke this aspect because it was going to be one of my suggestions - that the OP seeks out one/two of the party who don't own red hats and put together a gameplan - that each time the MAGA-hat starts to rant, one instantly strikes up a new topic and then the second runs with it, to derail [similar to some folks might conspire beforehand to ensure 'Uncle Rob doesn't drink much' or 'make an effort with Sally, I think she's in a dark place right now']. The 'they think I agree 100% but haven't ever questioned me on it' was the bit my benefit blew - because zeal of the convert and the fact that 'prophesying' is a highly encouraged activity by cults of all stripes.
- Thing is, I actually know from personal experience that improbable things happen and that at times 'reality is unrealistic'. So I didn't discount the possibility straight off - it was the fact they didn't really offer any explanation as to the whys of it after my 'no way, mon' past 'da economy' [and increasing hostility] which threw my suspicion switch. KarmaPolice (talk) 21:16, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
Just a few clarifications regarding my points[edit]
Sorry if it's bothersome, I just wanted to finish by explaining a bit what I meant with some of my points.
a) Regarding "'minimum viable size' modern-times is the size of whole countries which is hardly 'decentralised'" decentralized planning can feature plans spanning across a whole nation's economy, at least according to its proponents. The difference between decentralized planning and central planning is that the planning process is more horizontal and mostly done through direct or participatory democracy, rather than it being concentrated to a few central planners. Decentralized planning is also often referred by its proponents as "participatory planning" or "democratic planning" (although there are some central planning models which potentially could be considered democratic as well), which probably makes it clearer as to what it actually intends to do.
b) The question is indeed about decentralized planned economies ("command economy" is normally used to refer to a more specific type of planned economy, but close enough), I mentioned market economies to exemplify how a decentralized planned economy can still have elements of centralization, such as a central authority controlling the flow of money, without the whole system being considered centralized (as, like I said, markets are decentralized and can still feature centralized elements).
c) That's fair. Hopefully you're not too bothered by this conversation (or this reply). — LunaAHHHHH 17:57, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
- a) Is theoretically possible if the society existed in a land of perfect information. That every unit had full, accurate data, was connected to all other units and there was reliable logic-chains which would kick in the moment needs changed [a town decides it needs to refurbish it's civic centre and immediately calculations start on the resources needed to do this, then the resources to create those resources etc, then starts placing orders]. This was in fact the original concept behind 'Project Cybersyn' in Chile under the Allande govt if I remember right. Perhaps this will become a viable concept in our lifetimes; what between advanced economies dominated by a clutch of oligopolistic companies, strong internet connections, a cashless society, colossal computing power and LLM assistance - however this then hits the 'Big Brother' fears which I strongly suspect will render this concept politically impossible to enact.
- b) I used the difference because private entities plan too. As do corporatist countries. It also draws a line against 'market socialism' where non-capitalist orgs use 'market signals' to guide production plans etc.
- c) Nah, I don't mind. That was mainly aimed at another, actually... KarmaPolice (talk) 20:45, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
- On the Big Brother thing: I think any kind of economy could turn into a Big Brother-esque society. For example, markets have multinational corporations infringing on others' privacy, which governments can also take advantage of (see: China, the US, etc). The only kinds of economies I could see avoiding problems like these are ones which are highly localized like communalism, but they would obviously have difficulties when it comes to keeping up with the complexities of a modern economy. I think avoiding a society like that mostly depends on the general political structure of society, like how much coercive power the institutions have, how democratically-accountable they are, how much power is concentrated within them, etc. — LunaAHHHHH 23:38, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
- True. However, I do not believe such a 'trusting' society has ever existed for humanity and remotely left to our own devices, most likely never will [have you read HG Wells' Shape of things to come? In the end the world-state ends up rather like what you're describing]. Allocation of resources is another issue; if each town was 'on it's own' [as most communalists think they should be] it means how good your SoL shall be is strongly down to the lottery of where you happen to end up living in - a good example here being the Soviet communal farms. That if you were lucky to be born into a farm in the lush Caucasus close to transport connections your SoL will be rather sweet while if you're on the northern 'Black Earth' region welcome to an meagre existence which most likely shall end with you dying early from chronic alcoholism and/or suicide. One of the better aspects of 'centralised command' is that if it feels the need to, it can 'take' from the haves and give to the have-nots. Or take from the haves and invest it in what it feels 'needs to be done' [say, crash course of industrialisation a la Five Year Plans]. Yes, a decentralised system would allow the haves to chose to 'donate' to the have-nots but that kind of thing on a massive scale requires humanity to act quite contrary to how it traditionally has.
- On the Big Brother thing: I think any kind of economy could turn into a Big Brother-esque society. For example, markets have multinational corporations infringing on others' privacy, which governments can also take advantage of (see: China, the US, etc). The only kinds of economies I could see avoiding problems like these are ones which are highly localized like communalism, but they would obviously have difficulties when it comes to keeping up with the complexities of a modern economy. I think avoiding a society like that mostly depends on the general political structure of society, like how much coercive power the institutions have, how democratically-accountable they are, how much power is concentrated within them, etc. — LunaAHHHHH 23:38, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
- I rarely trust any pol/econ system which needs humans to act completely different than they currently do for it to function. KarmaPolice (talk) 00:51, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
- (EC) I would contest the claim that “…Is theoretically possible if the society existed in a land of perfect information. That every unit had full, accurate data, was connected to all other units and there was reliable logic-chains which would kick in the moment needs changed” if we are talking about something like Parecon. I think part of the idea is an attempt to evade that requirement. I don’t think it is particularly different to how sub-contracting works in Capitalistic economies. I worked for an environment lab that charged for tests we couldn’t perform ourselves (i.e. testing for lead in paint). We would instead subcontract that service to another company that could perform that test for us. We had our own internal system for our workload and resources (how many samples were due in a day, how many samples could be analyzed, number available mass spectrometers, if our argon gas containers were running low, etc). We did not need to have complete information about our subcontractees resources or workload, they would simply affirm if they could do the analysis by the required turnaround time or not. I was working in the private sector myself, but many governments run their own environmental labs that do the same work. All coordination and communication was happening at the level of sample receipt, client, and account managers between the respective labs. Information would be compartmentalized on a “need to know” basis.
- With something like Parecon a similar coordination could happen between respective production councils (which are operated on the level of individual workplaces themselves). You don’t need to involve every council within a nation-wide network to coordinate needed resources on “a need to know” basis provided there is sufficient compartmentalization and a wide distribution of sources for priority resources. - Only Sort of Dumb (talk) 01:01, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
- In saying that though, I think it should be obvious that in such a system you would not be developing anything like a “national plan”. I think that is more desirable though, as you don’t want planning at that scale or run afoul to the similar knowledge issues that plague state command economies. - Only Sort of Dumb (talk) 01:05, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
- To be fair though, it's kind of hard to define what a national plan is. You could argue a five-year national plan is actually a bunch of firm-level plans stitched together, since (if I'm not mistaken) the plan details what are the set targets for each firm and enterprise. One could argue that what separates firm-level plans to national-level plans is whether the plan was devised by individual firms or by a national organization, which in parecon would probably include the producer and consumer federations as well as the IFB, since they work at the national level. These organizations also try to estimate the social costs of certain items and investments, meaning they also try to align plans to the national interest as well. — LunaAHHHHH 02:02, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
- In saying that though, I think it should be obvious that in such a system you would not be developing anything like a “national plan”. I think that is more desirable though, as you don’t want planning at that scale or run afoul to the similar knowledge issues that plague state command economies. - Only Sort of Dumb (talk) 01:05, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
- I do agree with the points about communalism, which is why I'm not really trying to defend it. Decentralized planning isn't simply "having towns plan with what they have". Decentralized planning is horizontal planning, where the planning process is done in a network of different councils and other agencies across the nation in order to plan the entire economy based on what consumers want and what producers can make. It doesn't matter if someone lives in a shitty town where there's barely any resources for a producer to create stuff with, because this town will still be incorporated into this network where they can get access to the products made in other towns.
- And you wouldn't need a "trusting society" for this to happen. This is the whole reason why concepts such as money and labour vouchers exist. Producers won't send products to poor towns simply because they're so kind and compassionate, but because they're getting financially compensated for such work, be it through money or labour vouchers. It doesn't have to be like a gift economy, where stuff is given away for free and society works simply through the kindness of others.
- I feel as though this conversation has often derailed to us not really understanding each other's points. I hope I was able to understand your argument, and I hope I was able to make mine clear enough as well. — LunaAHHHHH 01:51, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
- I think you're largely correct Luna, I think KP is overestimating the need for altruism here. Everything isn't necessarily produced locally, but you'd have it so "shitty towns with limited resources" would be connected to other municipalities that if producing in surplus can redirect resources to where they are most needed. Consumer councils can flag areas with a high demand for a particular resource, or signal when a given municipality is low on an essential resource and should be given emergency priority. Frank Mintz [1] has written about how it was genuinely a problem for the anarchists in revolutionary Catalonia for munnicipalities to refuse to give accurate reports on resources they had in surplus. I think something like communalism can circumvent this problem by utilizing what Michael Albert has called "consumptive benefits" in other writings. If workers are given the means to have privleged access to luxury goods via the contribution they make to productive output or efficient distribution you can simulate a much needed incentive to get such work done. The hoarding problems in Catalonia was mostly performed out of fear of being forced to give away resources in exchange of nothing, and given it was durring wartime you had the much present threat of perceived scarcity. - Only Sort of Dumb (talk) 02:20, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
- I have little patience for Parecon models because they appear to be written by folks who like the idea of command economies in general but have objections [mainly political] of the growth of a technocratic-bureaucratic-managerial stratum/class to run it. Therefore, their suggestion is an extreme form of workers self-management. Problem is this doesn't remove the duties of that class, simply foist it onto those workers themselves, but folks less equipped to actually sort them out. What's more, you'd have to go to rather extreme lengths to ensure that said class doesn't arise within the economic unit itself because there is a significant risk that an 'inner circle' of workers would form an admin core and share the tasks to themselves and soon enough, morph into that class. Yes, there's ways you could avoid this but only by really crippling economic efficiency. So ultimately, you have to ask whether a significantly degraded SoL for all is really worth it to avoid the rise of any 'new class'. That debate is in itself 'political' in scope, because there's significant % of people who think an purely egalitarian society is impossible to achieve as 'all people are not equal' when it comes to abilities.
- I think you're largely correct Luna, I think KP is overestimating the need for altruism here. Everything isn't necessarily produced locally, but you'd have it so "shitty towns with limited resources" would be connected to other municipalities that if producing in surplus can redirect resources to where they are most needed. Consumer councils can flag areas with a high demand for a particular resource, or signal when a given municipality is low on an essential resource and should be given emergency priority. Frank Mintz [1] has written about how it was genuinely a problem for the anarchists in revolutionary Catalonia for munnicipalities to refuse to give accurate reports on resources they had in surplus. I think something like communalism can circumvent this problem by utilizing what Michael Albert has called "consumptive benefits" in other writings. If workers are given the means to have privleged access to luxury goods via the contribution they make to productive output or efficient distribution you can simulate a much needed incentive to get such work done. The hoarding problems in Catalonia was mostly performed out of fear of being forced to give away resources in exchange of nothing, and given it was durring wartime you had the much present threat of perceived scarcity. - Only Sort of Dumb (talk) 02:20, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
- I rarely trust any pol/econ system which needs humans to act completely different than they currently do for it to function. KarmaPolice (talk) 00:51, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
- Thus my belief that Parecon could only become viable with the use of tech; that the AI can become the 'expert deputy' which would honestly and without bias or self-interest fulfil their tasks under the supervision of say, rotating worker's council. But then to some extent the 'centralised vs decentralised' debate is effectively obsolete [or more correctly a differentiation without a difference] because if you'd be able to make 'unit-managing' AIs you'd also be able to make a big central 'planning AI' for the leadership of the 'People's Council' to work with in drawing up what 'general lines of thrust' should the country take for the coming decade ['reduce the work-week to 32 hours or put the surplus into our Mars efforts?']
- I don't think I am exaggerating the need for altruism because unless there's some method of enforcing the production of a surplus for investment [as well as supporting those who are 'unproductive' like the elderly, disabled and sick] you will need to rely on calling on folks to self-sacrifice voluntarily and all my experiences to date tell me that while folks are quite often more generous than the cynics would like us to think they are, it's usually not enough. Thus the role of the centre; for our People's Council to say to the local levels that some consumption must be forfeited for the good of all.
- But honestly, I think this level of detail is not at all needed for a RW article. KarmaPolice (talk) 20:01, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
- I don't think I have much more to say, honestly. This conversation has probably gone for long enough, especially for something that might not be so needed for a RW article, like you said. I personally doubt models like parecon don't have enough checks and balances in order to prevent another managerial class from being created (or that it has ones which cripple the economic efficiency), but detailing too much about the model here would probably be pretty uninteresting, and at this point it would make more sense to actually read about them in a book or somewhere else on the internet in more detail.
- You're probably busy with being a RW moderator and with other personal stuff and the like, so I'd rather not take too much of your time anymore. Hope you have a good day. — LunaAHHHHH 23:41, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
- The 'growth of technocracy' is a perennial question for all forms of modern socialism; I have come to the conclusion that the main driver for this is the complexity of modern civilisation more than anything else - it's just that while in socialist systems said technocracy gets labelled as 'bureaucracy' or 'nomenklatura' they generally get overlooked in capitalist orgs - partly because they're disguised [imagine if the admin staffs of every large retail org in your country worked in the same building] but also due to the fact 'we' [as in the Big Public] are not seen to employ them [at least directly via taxes]. Media bias is another thing; that it is held as canon on the right that public service is 'bloated' and 'inefficient' while private enterprise is 'lean' and 'efficient' [as seen as KenBot's hard-ons about 'businesspeople' being wonderful, infallible persons who work hugely hard]. It is also a class-based approach of divide and conquer; for example here in the UK there is constant attacks on 'NHS managers' which if you believed the reports comprise of half of the entire workforce, consume most of the budget and don't really 'do' anything. The truth is quite different - it seems that 'management roles' is only about 5% of the workforce and 'management tasks' about 10% more [ironically a lot of these are clinical staff having to do admin because of the hate of 'hiring managers' - however this does mean we now deploy under-trained doctors to do admin at £30 p/h rather hiring a trained manager to do it at £20 p/h] which in fact seems roughly equal to large private corps. There is also the little issue of accountability; that as a rule public bodies are expected to be more 'open' than private orgs and as such, have to employ people to ensure said openness. However, the biggest 'extra burden' is if you attempt to find alternatives to market forces for resource allocation.
- Speaking of admin, RW doesn't actually have a lot. Mods exist mainly for coop cases and the few events which calls for our extra level of mod power. KarmaPolice (talk) 11:00, 23 January 2025 (UTC)
Trans Panic[edit]
Dude, you're okay. And you'll be okay. What is criminally subversive about your life that a Person existing as trans might fuck up your day? — Unsigned, by: Torrent / talk / contribs
- And where do you assume that it would fuck up my day? KarmaPolice (talk) 12:04, 19 February 2025 (UTC)
501(c)3s: The good, the bad, and the ugly[edit]
I've been following the discussion on the RMF noticeboard, and while I cannot comment there without creating an account (which is practically impossible anymore because the trolls keep the "quarantine" filter active), it deserves to be said that changing the foundation's incorporation and raising all of this money trying to defend against SLAPPs could be shooting yourselves in the foot, especially with the current administration. For better or worse, all of the changes and a spike in income is going to draw attention from regulators. The IRS could give a shit less about a non-profit that only raises a few thousand dollars every year, but when it starts bringing in tens of thousands of dollars, they start caring. Thing is, 501(c)3 organizations are not allowed to promote political candidates (they're not allowed to have candidates' signs on their property for example), and RationalWiki has board members doing just that on the wiki. If the current administration takes note of that, invalidates the foundation's tax exempt status, and demands back taxes be paid with interest, a SLAPP lawsuit will be the least of your problems. You'll be in serious need of a tax attorney at that point, and if they can't dig the foundation out of the mess, the IRS will take all of its assets, including the domain.
That brings to light another issue: board member qualifications. Seriously, lose the editing requirement. The board needs to be divorced from the editing pool if the foundation is to ever succeed in using the defense that it is a platform, not to mention the IRS has a stronger case to revoke tax exempt if board members are posting political opinions vs. random internet users. It would actually be better if board members were NOT editors.
Another thought: lose the nonsense on the site. The one guy in the discussion has a point about advertisers avoiding controversy, but the problems with controversy goes deeper than pissing off advertisers. Get rid of the trashy anti-Conservapedia crap, get rid of most of the "fun" space, and tone down the political stuff. Put tighter restrictions on the saloon bar. In fact, I think the wiki should split, keep the serious fact checking type stuff, like the articles debunking alternative medicine and other woo, and spin the controversial stuff like the atheist shit, the political stuff, and the social justice/LGBT stuff off into separate projects divorced from the foundation, not to be funded by the foundation. This is 2025, and people get upset easily. Those with deep pockets can afford to piss people off. A group of kids with a shallow-pocketed foundation cannot. But regardless, if the foundation wants to be a serious project, it needs to focus on something and be good at it, not try to be a jack-of-all-trades publishing so much provocative crap. Not all scientists are atheists, and not all scientists are left wingers, but all scientists are going to question stuff like the med beds nonsense, the flat earth nonsense, ghost hunting bullshit, and alien invasion garbage. Even most devout creationists and right wing extremists would shake their head at that.
Just my two cents. 71.215.77.16 (talk) 03:45, 16 March 2025 (UTC)
- Yeah, shut the fuck up, I'm blocking you for suggesting someone kill themselves, you dumb fuck. BobJohnson (talk) 05:28, 16 March 2025 (UTC)
- It's almost certainly DMorris, don't give them any attention. Plutocow (talk) 05:32, 16 March 2025 (UTC)
- I am curious, though. Could the possible promotion of political candidates take away the foundation's tax-exempt status? ミ★ LunaAHHHHH 05:43, 16 March 2025 (UTC)
- - RW does not promote political candidates. As in, at no point does RW say 'vote for/against X'. Individual users can say that, while 'RW' can point out that candidate X appears 'to be for/against the things we support' and then leave the conclusion to the reader. And clearly, RW cannot use a single penny of our funds to campaign for or against a political candidate.
- I am curious, though. Could the possible promotion of political candidates take away the foundation's tax-exempt status? ミ★ LunaAHHHHH 05:43, 16 March 2025 (UTC)
- It's almost certainly DMorris, don't give them any attention. Plutocow (talk) 05:32, 16 March 2025 (UTC)
- - To my knowledge no member of RMF is 'politically active' beyond what could be considered reasonable for a diligent citizen. From as far as I can tell no member of the RMF have attempted to use RW's mantle to officially push anything 'political' (as in party political). A stopped clock point here is that it very well may be wise for RMF members to be a bit circumspect in their party political pronouncements in the SB and perhaps avoid editing such mainspace pages for the duration.
- - If RMF ends up with more annual income, sure we'd need to be more diligent in filing etc. However, (from my POV) RMF really needs to improve diligence in this sort of thing anyway - (though there is a chance we'd get away with not doing it due to the DOGE chainsawing off the folks who'd to the checking). Lastly, from the looks of it the current administration does what the hell it wants, legality be dammed so the argument is a bit moot - ie if RW dies it will because we displeased the king or his flunkies.
- - The fundamental issue with the 'lose the political stuff' is that whole swathes of RWs remit has been defined by MAGA as 'political' (which starts by redefining stuff as 'controversial'). Let's see, what topics now fall into this box according to Project 2025? Saying negative but true facts against MAGAs, for supporting science/education, for having articles about the shittiness of supply side economics, for refusing to accept intelligent design as science, for being pro-vaccinations and accepting that societal inequalities exist etc. If we in RW think our remit is to 'avoid upsetting people' and limit ourselves to the stuff that 'even far-right people can shake their heads at' out of fears of lawfare then I think there's no fucking point in continuing. Or more correctly, to take it as a sign that the USA is a lot more fucked to those who consume/contribute to RW than believed.
- - RW constantly AfDs non-missional content. Major new edits to mainspace are always reviewed by more established users to check. The % of poorly sourced hitpieces are declining by the week. I personally see no harm in Funspace because it is clearly marked as such.
- KarmaPolice (talk) 10:46, 16 March 2025 (UTC)