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Talk:Cultural Marxism

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This Conspiracy theories related article has been awarded BRONZE status for quality. It's getting there, but could be better with improvement. See RationalWiki:Article rating for more information.

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Editorial notes

needs more on the non-conspiracist usage, when the term was alive, and its decline

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pure anti-semitic propaganda[edit]

even if this is humoristic, what's this obssesion with Judaism?? you went way too far — Unsigned, by: 213.57.205.41 / talk

The page calls "Cultural Marxism" an anti-Semitic term itself, so I'm wondering how you reached that conclusion. Nabil (talk) 20:44, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Not just biased, but propagandist[edit]

I am not questioning the facts of this, nor am I an advocate of the existence of Cultural Marxism, but the language used here is not only biased, but inflammatory, to the point of triggering defensive mechanisms in readers who might be on the fence, which is who you're trying to persuade.

Cases in point:

  • "In current wingnut usage..." - characterizing anyone who uses the term as a wingnut
  • "nuttier Gamergaters..."
  • Using the phrase "bitch slut whores" as the link to the Misogyny article, as if it were a direct quote.
  • "collective jockstraps in a knot"

It's a perfectly fine read (and pretty funny) for a blog or the right news outlet, but for RATIONALWiki, shouldn't we let the facts speak for themselves without the need for invective? The truth itself is damning and persuasive enough, isn't it? — Unsigned, by: ScottAllenTVH / talk / contribs

"But I thought this was supposed to be RATIONALWiki!" Drink! ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 18:32, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
Erm, GC.. "Do NOT use this template if somebody comes onto a talk page with (1) a specific complaint about the article or (2) evidence (good or bad) for [Pet Theory]. Being rational requires constructively engaging other people, even those with (an) idea(s) you consider to be irrational, in order to determine whether or not their idea(s) are actually irrational. Placing this snarky template does not engage anyone in dialogue and makes RationalWiki seem aggressive to alternative ideas." Boredatwork (talk) 18:38, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
@Boredatwork That was mainly directed at the latter most part wherein our friend here made a fallacious argument, i.e. "It's a perfectly fine read (and pretty funny) for a blog or the right news outlet, but for RATIONALWiki, shouldn't we let the facts speak for themselves without the need for invective?". Am I one of the few users that read the "about us" style sections? ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 18:46, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
You can't just merely point out fallacies. You need to explain why you'd disagree with those points. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 18:43, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
@LeftyGreenMario Your point has pierced my chest and made me swoon... Ahem... Well then. Good point. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 18:47, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
"It's a perfectly fine read (and pretty funny) for a blog" This is a cultural-Marxist blog called "Rationalwiki" to make it sound less insane. Ironic huh? 86.187.162.102 (talk) 20:51, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
Yes, everyone using the term "cultural Marxism" like this is a wingnut at best - David Gerard (talk) 15:48, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

As a "commie on commie" accusation[edit]

Hi, I'm an IP editor and I recently removed the following text from your page:

'Schroyer coined the term as an accusation that some theorists were failed Marxists: merely "cultural Marxists" who had been subsumed by middle class capitalism. Or: "cultural Marxist" was originally an insult made by commies against commies who weren't commie enough. This is simply not the same as the definition used by modern conservative fearmongers.'

I both own a copy of Trent Schroyer's "The Critique of Domination" (I can take a photo of it upon request) - and I've also emailed Trent Schroyer himself to get a definition of the term. His definition went as follows:

"simply put cultural marxism is a critique of historical materialism as a paradigm of historical analysis that sees the role of social cultural norms as more fundamental to social transformations than mechanical marxism that reduces all to political economic determinants - it affords a different type of critical analysis the critiques norms that justify socially unnecessary coercions"

I think what he's saying is that orthodox/mechanical Marxism didn't critique social or cultural norms, where as Cultural Marxism does, and Cultural Marxism also sees those norms as a means for society to "justify socially unnecessary coercions" (which I suppose refers to racism, sexism, employment, ideology) - which is a fairly straight forwards definition, coherent with the works of The Frankfurt School and Birmingham School. It sounds much like Cultural Materialism.

At any rate there's nothing in there about the term being used by orthodox Marxists to chide "Cultural Marxists" - I simply don't think the term was wide spread among orthodox Marxists. It's a fairly modern term, so the timelines don't line up either. --203.192.81.6 (talk) 00:48, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

Edit warring[edit]

Stop it. Tabula Rasa (talk) 00:51, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

The quote with the Trump-like attribution[edit]

Will someone supply a quote disparaging Cultural Marxism, by someone generally understood to be intelligent. "Cultural Marxism?" What the holy hell are you talking about?" --? This one is idiotic. Ariel31459 (talk) 00:35, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

Everything is "cultural Marxism"[edit]

Here are a list of things I have seen called "cultural Marxist", which shows what a meaningless term it is:

  • atheism
  • Christianity
  • Judaism
  • Zionism
  • anti-Zionism
  • Islam
  • rock music (even though it's largely been capitalist since day one and arguably played a part in bringing down the Iron Curtain)
  • modern popular music in general
  • modern pop culture (which the Frankfurt School guys also actually despised, but blamed capitalism for it)
  • Baha'i Faith (which is always a regular conspiracy theory magnet anyway)

Nabil (talk) 05:01, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

It's far from an exhaustive list. You can just sum it up to mean "anything I don't like". --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 05:44, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
Funny that someone would actually attribute a religion of any kind to something that has Marx in the title – aside from Judaism of course, because that's how things work in Alt-Right Borough, Looneytown. --85.76.146.201 (talk) 22:25, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

If there is no such thing as Cultural Marxism, then there can't be such thing as (Cultural) Nazism either.[edit]

Both are terms made up by the other side. 2003:C3:3741:1600:2D51:F5F8:EB4C:D4B1 (talk) 21:51, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

And your point being? --85.76.146.201 (talk) 22:25, 23 May 2020 (UTC)
What the fuck is cultural Nazism supposed to be? ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 22:29, 23 May 2020 (UTC)
Have never heard the term “Cultural Nazism” Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 22:33, 23 May 2020 (UTC)
Cultural Nazism is Nazism, but with culture. Or lack of, because Nazis hated real culture (see degenerate art exhibitions) and preferred nostalgic fantasies. look I'm halfassing one for this bon okay --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 22:34, 23 May 2020 (UTC)
LOL!!!!! What the fuck did ya smoke? The nazis hated real culture? Yeah, it's a matter of taste, but this "modern art" is indeed crap. I mean, who likes art you first have to understand? And yes, I hate the modern neo-nazis. They're not educated, but many true nationalists are. 2003:C3:3741:1600:28FF:9C33:7266:20FB (talk) 23:08, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
"Who likes art you have to understand?"; I don't know about you but understanding John Chamberlain's bunch of welded car parts is a lot easier than understanding a painting full of obscure religious symbolism. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 23:23, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
Isn't everyone religious in some way? Also, romatic art was more philosophical than religious. It even influenced gothic rock music like Joy Division. 2003:C3:3741:1600:28FF:9C33:7266:20FB (talk) 23:29, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
Romantic art was influenced by nostalgia, spiritualism, nature, exoticism, and raw and simple emotions and drama. It doesn't have the copious religious symbolism of Italian and Northern Renaissance but it still contained a lot of symbols. I have no idea what's going on in The Death of Sardanapalus for instance, but John Chamberlain's pieces are demonstrations of 3D space and 3D negative space. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 23:38, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
OK. I'm German, but in our country very few "right-wingers" are Christian. Most of em are actually esoteric, such as Heiko Schrang (buddhist). 2003:C3:3741:1600:28FF:9C33:7266:20FB (talk) 23:41, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
Modern art is good actually. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 23:53, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
Also, please explain your strawman. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 23:54, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
Hmmmm specifying that you’re not a fan of the “modern” neonazis... really showing your hand there Vro 49.182.27.243 (talk) 01:47, 25 May 2020 (UTC)