Talk:Dunning–Kruger effect

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'I know enough about...'

Surely this can be a neutral statement describing 'the known unknowns' (and knowing that there will be associated unknown unknowns) - you know the point at which to call in 'the experts'/get further training/accept a plain narrative explanation on, etc. Anna Livia (talk) 15:31, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

johnny ball

it strikes me as terribly unfair to single out johnny ball for this article. despite the scare quotes johnny ball has been a very prominent and popular science advocate, yet it is he that we have chosen to illustrate this effect. could we not have come up with some one more fitting? really? AMassiveGay (talk) 19:27, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

The qualities you listed make Ball an excellent example. ^{— Unsigned, by: 108.180.92.37 / talk / contribs}

Evolutionary layer, sort of?

Was reading some stories about incompetent managers, thought of a different angle: an incompetent person must radiate confidence, because it is easy confused with brilliance, to bullshit their way into a good position. From then on the only competence required from them is to ascertain when it is time to hightail, while everything they've at said position falls apart. Perhaps, there's even a confirmation bias, and we don't get an input from both incompetent and uncofident because they simply lay low? Haven't encountered a research on this topic, but maybe someone else has?Arisano (talk) 04:33, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

I don't actually think that all incompetent managers radiate confidence. Some of them just radiate incompetence. Perhaps The Peter Principle or something similar? Bob^{"Life is short and (insert adjective)"} 16:00, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Dunning-Kruger Effect likely doesn't exist

There's research going all the way back to 2002 indicating that the Dunning-Kruger effect may not be real. Most notably (in my opinion), a pair of studies from 2016 and 2017 showed that replicating D&K's analysis but with completely randomized data showed the same effect.

I'm just a driveby reader so I'm not sure what the protocol is for making such a potentially massive change to a page as "Lol turns out this probably doesn't exist?". But I thought I should let you know.

Citations

• 2002 study: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S019188690100174X
• 2016 study: https://digitalcommons.usf.edu/numeracy/vol9/iss1/art4/
• 2017 study: https://digitalcommons.usf.edu/numeracy/vol10/iss1/art4/
• 2020 study: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0160289620300271

Easy reading popsci summary

• https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/how-do-you-know/202012/dunning-kruger-isnt-real ^{— Unsigned, by: 73.132.52.129 / talk / contribs}

Oh I think it exists alright. Anyone who thinks that incompetent people have the ability to assess their competence accurately is probably an incompetent person. More likely to overestimate than underestimate their ability? That makes sense too. Also, the more educated person in a subject knows how much is unknown to them and suppose themselves to rate at a lower level and hence be less astute than they might actually be? Yes that sounds likely too. See David Dunning's reply to those who envy his renown.Ariel31459 (talk) 01:49, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

You respond to several peer-reviewed papers with a decidedly non-peer-reviewed response piece from a guy who has a material incentive to defend his reputation. One thinks that simply asserting the formulation of the Dunning-Kruger effect and then linking to what's effectively a glorified blog-post isn't the strongest response. I am otherwise neutral on this issue. Carthage (talk) 11:48, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Mansplaining

How does mansplaining (and actual or potential equivalents covering other groups) link into the D-K effect (ie the person explaining assuming they know more than the person being spoken to)? Anna Livia (talk) 12:56, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

I suppose you could argue that mansplaining and its equivalents are the application of Dunning-Kruger to social justice. Carthage (talk) 15:22, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Are there equivalent terms for other groups? (The concept can be visualised, even if there is no present word.) Anna Livia (talk) 11:08, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Communism and Ayn Rand

I'll admit I'm not particularly familiar with the ideas of Communism to say if the characterization that communists represent the dunning-kruger effect by "think[ing] that humans are capable of perfect eusocial harmony like ants or honeybees" has merit as banned wiki member Luigifan18 suggests. However, I am under the impression that is a gross oversimplification.

Originally I was going to simply bring this up on the talk page before editing it out, but since Luigifan18 is banned I'm taking initiative. Luigifan18 also added that Ayn Rand doesn't understand humans are a "social species" (his emphasis not mine). This may very well be true, but since I have no idea, I'm going to be prejudicial and remove it anyhow.

Please let me know if there's any further discussion/consideration on this front. Sciraven (talk) 18:09, 6 October 2024 (UTC)