Talk:Finns Party

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(create an archive)

Draft notes

I'm making this only as a draft so far, since I don't want to create unnecessary stubs. I'll let the more experienced users decide when (if ever) this is ready for mainspace. I'll see to the empty history sections as well as references when I have more time. Hopefully tomorrow, but I tend to procrastinate.Coigreach (talk) 21:50, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

No mention of the Hankamäki Totuus kiihottaa fiasco yet? --2001:999:22:79C8:BDC8:C9BF:1BE4:DA8C (talk) 01:26, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

I'm doing the history stuff in fairly chronological order, since that comes more easily for me. I also take my sweet time, because I'm a huge procrastinator. However, feel free to add some of the more recent history towards the end of the article. I'm definitely planning to write something about the party kicking their own youth division out for being openly fascist and ethnonationalistic one of these days. I'm thinking of a subtitle "Trouble With the Kids" there. Coigreach (talk) 14:22, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Non English References

What is the site policy on references in languages other than English? I'm trying to seek English ones where ever possible, but for some fairly important ones I've only found Finnish ones. I'll insert them for now, but please advice and remove them if necessary.Coigreach (talk) 22:27, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

I used a lot of Finnish sources on Kai Murros and nobody seemed to mind. --85.76.70.67 (talk) 10:16, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

There is no strict policy about this. Generally, it's preferred to give an English-language citation on our English-language pages when possible (either by itself or in addition to a original-language citation). Bongolian (talk) 04:00, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

I've mostly been able to find English refs pretty easily since the Finnish national media outlet Yle provides pretty much every news article in English as well as Finnish (and it's fairly reputable source too). I think only three references and the link in first note are in Finnish. Coigreach (talk) 14:14, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

I've read and edited it. It looks good. Thanks! Bongolian (talk) 03:43, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

Ready for mainspace?

The page seems long enough with enough citations that it could go into mainspace, I think. Bongolian (talk) 04:00, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

Not yet quite up to date, but good enough, I guess. --2001:999:22:79C8:BDC8:C9BF:1BE4:DA8C (talk) 05:02, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

It still needs some expansion to really cover all the craziness. I certainly plan to include introductions to some of the noteworthy loons. But I think it might be about ready for mainspace now that the party split chapter is included. Maybe some pictures should be included first, but I really can't wrap my head around the copyrights thing and I don't feel like just looting the Wikipedia article for them. Also someone to whom English is a first language might wish to check my grammar and punctuation. Coigreach (talk) 13:54, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Do you think this might be ready for the mainspace now @Bongolian? I'm going to keep working on it, but I think it might cover enough to get out of the draftspace. Coigreach (talk) 18:50, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Yes, I think it's ready: sufficient text, plenty of references. I have a read through when it's in mainspace. Bongolian (talk) 19:44, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Removing the Hikipedia link from "Further Reading"

So Hikipedia (literally translates as Sweatpedia) is to all intents and purposes a Finnish language Encyclopedia Dramatica. They even refer to ED as "that other Hikipedia". The linked article is a list of Finns party members with criminal convictions. That's all well and good and it's actually fairly disturbing how the party that claims to want to protect Finns from foreigners has so many violent criminals in its ranks. Unfortunately it also includes a homophobic dog whistle (against an admittedly massively homophobic Finns party MP, but still).

If someone disagrees with this, please justify restoring it on the talk page.Coigreach (talk) 13:19, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Well this is back again. I can't be arsed to start an edit war about it. Maybe one of the mods can decide if it's okay to link to an article that suggests shoplifting handbags is "gay" is appropriate to this site. Coigreach (talk) 23:25, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Hikipedia is actually the Finnish version of Uncyclopedia (Uncyclopedia § Finnish — Hikipedia), an inherently unreliable source. I'm going to remove it because it's not essential to the page. Bongolian (talk) 00:11, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

Due for an update

They are now in the 2023 Finnish government, as a main coalition partner of the National Coalition Party, or Kokoomus. The current flow of the article describes a history which now seems to begin to repeat, so just adding on to the article may not be the best way to structure it.

The Finns Party now, for a second time, support the austerity politics of Kok., and Kok. this time campaigned on making neoliberal reforms. The Finns Party also toned down their Euroskeptic stance in order to appeal to Kok. While generally ideological opponents of the Swedish People's Party of Finland, now they've partnered (the situation is a little like Sweden's Liberals vs. Sweden Democrats who are both in the current Swedish government).

Drama related to far-right elements has already appeared.[1] Economic affairs minister Vilhelm Junnila made it past a confidence vote on him in which the Swedish People's Party voted with the opposition out of disgust (the opposition had low attendance in parliament however, which allowed Junnila to remain).[2] Junnila has made various Hitler, heiling, and gas-related comments over time which he explains as "jokes", his social media activity of that nature recently ending up in the spotlight. He also gave a talk for a neo-Nazi organization in 2019, recently apologizing and distancing himself from such things.[3] The President of Finland has called the situation with Junnila highly embarrassing for the government.

Maybe the drama will fade and the situation turn out stable (perhaps following some reshuffling of people), or maybe there will be more to come. --ApooftGnegiol (talk) 10:17, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Update: Junnila resigned after the week-long drama, which PM Petteri Orpo said was "the correct and only possible solution."[4] "This scandal could mean dark clouds ahead in terms of the Orpo government's unity, according to populism expert Emilia Palonen." It also turns out that Junnila lied about his work history and education.[5] And the Finns Party apparently made an abrasive ultimatum for nothing when they earlier pressured the government parties to vote for continued confidence in Junnila, lest the government coalition break up if the vote went the other way. --ApooftGnegiol (talk) 18:39, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Update 2: More things likely to be useful for the article. The Finns Party interior minister Mari Rantanen is now next to be scrutinized, for her promotion of the Great Replacement conspiracy theory on social media over the recent years.[6] Her election platform also included, "We must not be so starry-eyed that we lose our blue eyes."[7] (Sources in Swedish this time, no English articles yet.) --ApooftGnegiol (talk) 10:32, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, this article hasn't aged particularly well. I'm so irregular visitor to the wiki these days, that I probably won't be able to keep it up to date. But unless someone else would like to update the article and rewrite parts of it, I'll try to get it done this week. Knight Commander^{In Service}_{To Her}^Goatness 07:47, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

Maybe it's not so bad to put it off for a bit longer, given how fast things happen now. It's possible that the ongoing scandals (lately centered around Riikka Purra's old racist writings) will lead to the government collapsing, so an update made a little later may be differently focused in that case.[8] --ApooftGnegiol (talk) 15:47, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

Besides being due for an update, this reads like news summary or a tract against PS, and is missing most of the relevant political analysis, such as discussion on history, positions, policies, membership and associations to other relevant political groups and characters, similarities and differences to related European political parties, and disagreements with other Finnish political parties. Why I think this would be useful is that the picture you get from reading just some foreign papers about this is not only limited, but often tends to place Finnish parties in a foreign context. Opinions from Finnish non-neutral commenters are even worse. One way to go about this would be to make the current text a subsection called "History" (even as such, it's actually missing good bits like Teuvo Hakkarainen's conviction for attempted rape in parliament) and set up new sections for analysis. --DrH (talk) 11:28, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

@DrH, it sounds like a good idea with such a restructuring and update/expansion. Though maybe more ambitious than other editors have been about this article here so far, including myself. You're welcome to try. --ApooftGnegiol (talk) 23:13, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

I'll also add that at least the Totuus kiihottaa and Blue-and-Black sections (the latter especially) could be spun off as separate articles, to make way for text about the party in general. --2001:999:250:D2B9:64DD:164A:E6D:3969 (talk) 17:20, 22 November 2023 (UTC)