Talk:Hans Asperger

Walks like a duck

From the new York times: "He joined several organizations affiliated with the [National Socialist German Workers' Party] (although not the Nazi party itself),"[1] To me this largely says "Wasn't politically active enough to join the party, but wanted to be involved." also from that same line: "Asperger managed to accommodate himself to the Nazi regime and was rewarded for his affirmations of loyalty with career opportunities." I don't think you can really advance in the party without being one, or at least so close to being one that it doesn't make much different. Quacks like a duck. Zero ^{(talk - contributions)} 16:05, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

@Zero I think I have a good compromise here, replace the disputed content with "and was a close collaborator with the Nazi party, though not officially a member". ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 16:14, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

Another possible source

There's another good article about Hans in the LRB here, a review of Edith Sheffer's book. It discusses his relationship with Nazism and euthanasia and how his ideas related to ideas about "normal" (=Nazi) minds and ideas about the mentality of geniuses. --Annanoon (talk) 15:51, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

Not a light read. Probably will be getting the book at some point myself anyway but I will keep this around to check out. Zero ^{(talk - contributions)} 22:52, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

Relation to Autism

As someone who has been officially diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome, I was appropriately horrified to discover that my condition was discovered by and named after a Nazi (and I don't care what kind of distinction people would make; a Nazi is a fucking Nazi.) While I agree that continuing to have the disorder named after Asperger is a horrible idea, I don't think it's appropriate to assert (as this page seems to) that the disorder itself does not exist and is just "basic" autism under a different name. While AS is indeed on the autism spectrum, it's such a specific type of autism that just calling it "autism" is too vague. Even just calling it "high-functioning autism" is not specific enough, as there are documented distinctions between Asperger's syndrome and other high-functioning forms of autism. (links: 1, 2). I think it would make more sense to change the disorder's name than to act like it doesn't exist at all.

Furthermore, I know you guys are just telling it like it is, and I appreciate your honesty, but I still feel the need to mention how uncomfortable I am with the revelation that kids with Asperger's and other forms of high-functioning autism were spared from the Holocaust because the Nazi government might have had some use for them. This upsets me because, as anyone remotely familiar with 4chan will tell you, the Internet has a never-ending supply of hateful, bigoted, alt-right meme-Nazi shitlords who like to excuse their monstrous behavior by falsely claiming to be autistic. This trend has convinced a non-negligible amount of people that high-functioning autistics and Aspies especially really are these horrible, evil people, and I worry that the fact of Nazi Germany's exempting high-functioning autistics from mass euthanasia will only make that stigma worse.

Please do not misunderstand me. I am not trying to deny the Holocaust or any of Hitler's crimes against humanity. That is the exact opposite of what I want. I just worry that ignorant people will misconstrue the facts presented in this article as proof that people with high-functioning forms of autism would have been Hitler supporters. 2601:193:4100:E8FA:2DC1:9DB5:A84:23A7 (talk) 04:14, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for your thoughtful comments. You are welcome to make appropriate changes to the page itself. We particularly welcome changes that include appropriate and quality references such as the two that you provided above. Bongolian (talk) 04:25, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

I don't think the article pretends it doesn't exist, but assumes that Asperger's is just another way to call autism, which is wrong. As far as I remember, Asperger's is just a subtype of autism just as how ADD is just a subtype of ADHD so to see this inaccuracy in the article is very bad. I'm no expert on autism so I like to see you make the changes and do a better job than this article. --It's-a me, 🎄LeftyGreenMario!🎄 04:43, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

The thing with it is that it did exist as a label, but no longer does as its just lumped under ASD itself since the difference is largely indistinguishable. The DSM-IV contained Asperger's Disorder as a diagnosis, but when version V came out, the consortium decided it was a distinction without a difference, so it went away. As for your concerns about people with ASD being supporters of Hitler/Nazis, I think this is a bit unfounded, but I am careful with my writings in that regard. Thank you. Zero ^{(talk - contributions)} 15:42, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘Perhaps an unpopular opinion within the autism community, but I'm fairly adamant that changing the name at this point would be ridiculous. People had almost 80 years to figure this out, and barring things such as changed medical terminology (think the terms idiot, imbecile, moron), screwing with the name of well-established conditions makes it unnecessarily difficult to research and treat it. Future researchers would have to search for data using two completely different names to find the information they need, which just slows things down, and people already diagnosed (all people diagnosed under the DSM IV kept their diagnosis, so I still have the initials PDD-NOS attached to my name) will have to wrangle with various levels of paperwork for no actual gain. Definitely glad they found Asperger out, though, better late than never the uncover someone like him. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 04:12, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

His motives

I am wondering whether Asperger wholeheartedly supported the principles of Nazi eugenics while considering certain kinds of Autistic people worthy, or were his actions more like a some sort of attempt to reform the system from within. Even if he actually opposed the whole idea of eugenics, it would have been foolhardy and useless to state it publicly. He would have been fired and discredited at best and executed at worst, and in either case, he could have not saved those who he did. --2001:999:40:3F76:A56C:D00B:E55E:9F0A (talk) 12:27, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

Snopes Article

Might be useful. Zero ^{(talk - contributions)} 16:02, 22 September 2021 (UTC)