Talk:Israel Defense Forces

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Stupid question

Given current trends in Gaza, how many Jews do you think would live in a Palestinian state encompassing all territory between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River? Avengerofthe BoN (talk) 20:11, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Plenty. There are many Jewish human rights activists who go through Gaza and are unharmed. Jews were generally well protected by relative standards in the area of Palestine until the Zionist movement came above and tensions became far more pronounced. The issue is with settlements and occupation, not a person's religion. ChrisAmiss (talk) 20:15, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Visitor suffered for PR reasons =/= full and equal citizen. Avengerofthe BoN (talk) 20:20, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

I believe under the PA constitution and Hamas' legal system (charter is not a legal document, it is a historical document so it doesn't count), Jews have a right to freedom of religion. ChrisAmiss (talk) 21:58, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

In practice, it's the opposite. In practice, they FUCKED.--Arisboch ☞✍☜☞✉☜ 22:18, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

I don't believe so, at least from a historical perspective. ChrisAmiss (talk) 23:30, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

So tell me once again what happened to the Jews who by some accident of history found themselves in Arab countries after 1948? If that is Arab tolerance, I don't want to be on the wrong side of Arab intolerance Avengerofthe BoN (talk) 00:01, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

That's a different topic not related to how Jews are/could be treated in the area of Palestine. And you might want to cite the Jews who live in Iran, Turkey, and Azerbaijan who are doing relatively fine. Some governments are more oppressive than others. The PA is oppressive, but I wouldn't put it on the same level as say Saudi Arabia who is hostile to any kind of minorities. ChrisAmiss (talk) 00:48, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

An aside to an aside: The Historikerstreit

Basically the whole quarrel was whether the "Asian" crimes of the Soviet Union that happened in the 1930s or their "class murder" were a precondition to what happened in Nazi Germany and their "race murder" or whether Hitler's acts were in some sense a "reaction" to that. To cut a tedious year-long exchange of letters to the editor in the FAZ and other outdated modes of communication short: Nope. And most of those who proposed that shit in the first place went off the right wing deep end later on. Though it has to be said that quite a bit of new sources were thoroughly studied to dismiss this particular "interpretation" of history. Shall I add it to our "to do" list? Or discuss the topic in the bar first? Avengerofthe BoN (talk) 20:18, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

I wasn't suggesting they were a precondition or produced Hitler's actions. I was suggesting at the time that putting the USSR under the section of good guys included with the US and UK is problematic given their actions a decade earlier. ChrisAmiss (talk) 20:21, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

We live in the real world "good guys" is a relative term in warfare. I don't deny Soviet war crimes or the horrible treatment of POWs and political prisoners in the Soviet Union. But even the devil and his evil twin brother would have been acceptable allies against Hitler. Heck I would've even considered asking Bin Ladin if he could overlook his shared Antisemitism with Hitler and fight him as a supposed "infidel". Churchill (whom I also don't particularly like) said when questioned on Britain's de facto alliance with Stalin "And if Hitler were to invade hell, I'd say a few nice words about Satan" (or something to that effect). He was right. Just like the bastard was right many times. Avengerofthe BoN (talk) 20:25, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

WW2 in the circumstances at the time may be the exception to war being evil. But taking a dovish approach on my part, I think WW2 could've been avoided with a far less punitive Treaty of Versailles and less greed exacted during the Great Depression that made conditions for the Nazi's rise to political power. ChrisAmiss (talk) 20:29, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

"He (Churchill) was right. Just like the bastard was right many times." You mean Stalin? 142.124.55.236 (talk) 20:29, 17 October 42015 AQD (UTC)

With bastard I did indeed refer to Churchill. Stalin was hardly ever right about anything. Even his fabled industrialization of the USSR could have been achieved at a much lower death toll (though maybe not as fast) Avengerofthe BoN (talk) 22:44, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Will Arisboch answer hard questions?

So far he is pointedly refusing to substantively answer two questions:

1. Does Israel adopt laws and/or policies meant to maintain it's "Jewish character?"
2. Is it immoral to commit violence against soldiers of a country that has taken your land and is subjugating you?

The first he does not want to answer because the only truthful reply supports my claim -- which he detests -- that Israel is an ethno-religious supremacist state. The second he won't answer because he prefers all Palestinian resistance to be labeled as terrorism and deemed to be wholly wrong.---Mona- (talk) 23:51, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

that Israel is an ethno-religious supremacist state- -Mona- This is goddamn bullshit. Israeli Arabs have more right in Israel than Arabs in any Arab country. --Arisboch ☞✍☜☞✉☜ 01:02, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

Will Mona answer any questions?

Like for example those on this talk page, her talk page or the talk page of the Israel article? Avengerofthe BoN (talk) 23:56, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

I usually do not engage you and will not pretend to have intellectual exchanges with you. You are a moron incapable of such interaction on a level acceptable to me. Now, be about whatever it is you do.---Mona- (talk) 23:59, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

I usually do not engage you and will not pretend to have intellectual exchanges with you.- -Mona- And now you expect of people to answer question, if you psam them often enough, right?--Arisboch ☞✍☜☞✉☜ 01:03, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

You know, the whole "not talking to you" shtick only works if you are even approaching a semblance of consistency on it. Avengerofthe BoN (talk) 00:03, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

No Arisboch. You have never been able to answer certain questions, and why you can't is utterly obvious.---Mona- (talk) 02:32, 18 October 2015 (UTC)