Talk:Israel Defense Forces/Archive1

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Israeli bulldozers

I don't mean to be a P.C. thug but this is a really gross way of looking at Israeli bulldozers that are proven to be used for destroying private homes of law abiding Palestinians.--158.143.165.215 20:42, 29 February 2008 (EST)

You missed the sarcasm? human 21:03, 29 February 2008 (EST)

Yeah, it totally went over my head--158.143.165.215 21:20, 29 February 2008 (EST)

Sorry you missed it. It seemed pretty obvious when I wrote it. But maybe that's because the gov't here doesn't bulldoze buildings with uparmored D11's (yet), only the occasional crazy person does (really). human 23:07, 29 February 2008 (EST)

An attack article?

Wow, this is pretty much just an attack on the IDF, which is the military force of a sovereign nation. It seems like every HRW report has nothing to do with IDF in particular, but rather with Israel's national policies. I would suggest making this article just a redirect to Israel because of this, and merge the content. Thoughts?--Tom Moore^{fiat justitia} 10:44, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't a merger is the right way to go. I think it's less of an "attack article" than it could be, but a little more level-headedness wouldn't go amiss. ^{d hominem} 10:51, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't see why being "the military force of a sovereign nation" makes a group immune from articalization? Although if you mean that they are only the "instrument" of the national policy, rather than the "source" of their actions, I guess it could become a section there. ħuman 20:55, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

That is what I mean, yes.--Tom Moore^{fiat justitia} 21:00, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

The IDF deserve an article as much as the US Army deserves one. Both armies have a scary amount of military power, but both are the military arms of their respective governments. The IDF is merely the medium through which the (abhorrent) Israeli policy is carried out, so its a bit stupid to target it exclusively. MarcusCicero 20:58, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

I guess the only question is how much any despicable methods are "approved" or condoned by the respective governments, and how much they are made up in the organization itself. Since in both countries (?) the military is subservient to civilian control, I suppose in the end the moral burden of any military activity rests with the government? It's not like the POTUS says "Army, please secure the border" and they nuke Mexico on their own initiative. ħuman 22:09, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

In perhaps one of the greatest films ever, one U.S. general launched a nuclear strike on Russia out of fear of loosing his precious bodily fluids to the reds. People should take these things seriously! 86.40.222.227 22:18, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps we need PLO and Hamas articles as well.--Bob^{Not Jim} 22:14, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Try getting a stone against your empty head or through your car window

and then claim, that it is not a deadly weapon. Or a knife shoved through your throat or back.--Arisboch ☞✍☜☞✉☜ 19:42, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Question: When someone throws a rock at you, are they commonly charged with attempted murder? 142.124.55.236 (talk) 19:43, 17 October 42015 AQD (UTC)

Depends on the rock and the circumstances. In Israel, there've been stricter laws passed in the last few weeks, e.g.--Arisboch ☞✍☜☞✉☜ 19:53, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Stones are all they have, and some knives. Against one of the most sophisticated military oppressors in the world.---Mona- (talk) 19:45, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

That an especially idiotic pile of shit and appeal to emotion, even coming from you.--Arisboch ☞✍☜☞✉☜ 19:53, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Putting a stone on the same level as a heavily armored soldier with a weapon in hand is dishonest. As the saying goes, it's like bringing a knife to a gunfight. And that's not including the fact that some of the Jewish settlers carry arms like they own the place (i.e. Oath Keepers or those idiots who bring guns in malls like they're hot shit). ChrisAmiss (talk) 19:48, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

...until the terrorist with the knife manages to use teh element of uranium adamantium surprise and knifes the soldier. Often, the knife-wielder's health doesn't benefit from that action, but it happens.--Arisboch ☞✍☜☞✉☜ 19:53, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

I don't think there's any evidence to this. Some apologists mentioned that Palestinian militants laced their weapons with hepatitis or rat poison (i.e. Alan Dershowitz), but this was later proven to be false and the Palestinian bomber already had hepatitis to begin with. Physicians for Human Rights - Israel had a report on this. ChrisAmiss (talk) 20:03, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

The stuff about uranium was a goddamn joke (hint: the snark link) and adamantium doesn't even exist! Are you drinking and editing at the same time??--Arisboch ☞✍☜☞✉☜ 20:04, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

I wasn't sure. I exercised caution. ChrisAmiss (talk) 20:07, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

I have seen newspaper reports of people in the USA being charged with "assault with a deadly weapon, a shod foot" and similar things. I guess it depends on what the prosecutor wants to do. Alec Sanderson (talk) 19:51, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

There are situations in which throwing a rock could reasonably lead to an assault with a deadly weapon charge. However, the Palestinians would trade in their rocks for the first class weapons the Israelis have in a heartbeat. It truly is David v. Goliath.---Mona- (talk) 19:59, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Stabbing soldiers who are enforcing the theft of your land and your subjugation is not terrorism. What would be your basis, Arisboch, for saying that is immoral?---Mona- (talk) 20:00, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Whose land? That of Jordan or that of Egypt?--Arisboch ☞✍☜☞✉☜ 20:03, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘Arisboch translated: "Stop asking me questions I don't want to answer. I'm also not going to say whether Israel has policies to maintain its 'Jewish character' because I don't like where the answer leads."---Mona- (talk) 20:08, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Mona translated: "I love to gaslight people and put nonsense in their mouths, whether they say something or whether they don't."--Arisboch ☞✍☜☞✉☜ 20:11, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Arisboch: "I'm still not going to answer either of those questions."---Mona- (talk) 20:17, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Mona: "I love to JAQ off in public and think about Greenwald, when doing it."--Arisboch ☞✍☜☞✉☜ 20:21, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

(ich widme diesen edit conflict dem internationalen Djihad gegen die Religion) Claiming land belongs to someone a priori is a rather dangerous road to go down for someone willing to ignore Jewish claims on Eretz Israel. Just sayin' Avengerofthe BoN (talk) 20:05, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Palestinians. Jordan and Egypt's occupations were illegal, not as brutal but still illegal. ChrisAmiss (talk) 20:04, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

As counter-intuitive as it may seem

The good guys can indeed be the guys with the better weapons. Just think of the second world war, where it thankfully was the USSR, the USA and the UK who had more and better bombers and tanks and not the Nazis Avengerofthe BoN (talk) 20:04, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

On the other hand, the bad guys can indeed be the guys with the better weapons. Well, that's not including the USSR who was responsible for a genocide a decade earlier than the Nazis. ChrisAmiss (talk) 20:06, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

I knew the Historikerstreit was on mission. To cut a long story short: You're wrong. And in line with the far right fringe of the German discourse. It's just amazing how often the latter two are one and the same thing. Avengerofthe BoN (talk) 20:10, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

? ChrisAmiss (talk) 20:15, 17 October 2015 (UTC)