Talk:War on Christmas

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I've aways thought that Christmas was a great holiday. The only problem is that Christians are trying to take over this ancient pagan festival.--Bobbing up 04:16, 16 November 2007 (EST)

Just to update you, I'm pretty sure that has already happened - about 1200 years ago. ;-) --AKjeldsenGodspeed! 04:25, 16 November 2007 (EST)
I'm not sure that's true. The Ancient Spirit Of Christmas - getting drunk, increased sexual activity, eating a lot, Odin driving his reindeer through the sky - still exists despite over a thousand years of Christian influence on the celebration. In fact I think that, for many, it's the ancient spirit that's now the most important aspect. ;-) --Bobbing up 04:47, 16 November 2007 (EST)
Of course it's up to people themselves to inject whatever meaning they wish into the celebration, if any at all, but I'm not really seeing a lot of people sacrificing goats in Midwinterblót, or dancing chain-dances to make Hors turn into Koleda, or whatever else one could think of. And where such traditions have survived, they usually lack any of the original religious meaning. I'm also pretty sure that most of those people who talk about pagan Christmas festivals often have only a pretty tenuous idea of what those festivals actually were about, or how they differed from each other. That would seem to make it essentially a case of modern reconstruction, rather than survival of ancient religious. And that's fine too, it just needs to be seen for what it is. --AKjeldsenGodspeed! 05:10, 16 November 2007 (EST)
I'm sure we could sacrifice a few goats here :-) --Bobbing up 05:13, 16 November 2007 (EST)
We could, and I'm sure that it would be an excellent reconstruction of an ancient observance. (As a matter of fact, I believe a group of Swedish Asatrú people have been doing just that in Old Uppsala for the last couple of years.) --AKjeldsenGodspeed! 05:26, 16 November 2007 (EST)
Well the one, only real name of the one, only real Santa Claus (see below), is Joulupukki, finnish for "Christmas goat". Should we take him/it as RW mascot? Editor at CP 05:36, 16 November 2007 (EST)
We already have a nomination for a RW goat mascot. The wonderful Heidrun. Perhaps we should have a competition between them?--Bobbing up 06:29, 16 November 2007 (EST)

Are there any Jewish talking heads who are pissed that wal*mart greeters might wish them "happy Christmas" or "happy holidays" rather than "happy Hanukkah"? It seems there's a big arse entitlement culture amongst Christians in the USA... --Jeeves 04:38, 16 November 2007 (EST)

Twice the fun - thank you Christians![edit]

Well the Christian involvement with Christmas means that we can celebrate it twice, December 25 and January 7, thanks to the division between western and orthodox Christians. Now, I don't know if we must thank Christians or Pagans for Dead Morose, that is, Father Frost. Anyway, thank you Coca Cola for Santa Claus! Editor at CP 04:48, 16 November 2007 (EST)

I thought the "Coca Cola/Santa Claus" thing was an urban myth?--Bobbing up 04:50, 16 November 2007 (EST)
snopes urban myth myth --Bobbing up 04:54, 16 November 2007 (EST)
Make fun of CP if you wish, but on Santa you must not joke! The one, only, real Santa Claus lives near Rovaniemi, Finland, not far from the Arctic Polar Circle. If you don't believe it, just send a letter to Santa Claus (Joulupukki), Rovaniemi, Finland. He will answer (really!). No need to send stamps. Editor at CP 05:18, 16 November 2007 (EST)
Ridiculous. Every cultured person knows that Santa lives in Greenland. That was quite clearly established at the 40th Annual Father Christmas World Congress in 2003. :nods: --AKjeldsenGodspeed! 05:23, 16 November 2007 (EST)

Pffft, revisionist lies! Everyone knows Sinterklaas lives in Spain and comes by boat every year. No reindeer or goats involved. Now, Bill O'Really fighting for the reintroduction of Zwarte Piet in to wal*mart, that would be the real spirit of Christmas. Ah, the folksy racism of my childhood... --Jeeves 05:29, 16 November 2007 (EST)

Santa Claus lives in Canada -- 09:14, 16 November 2007 (EST)

Father Christmas lives on a barge off the northeast coast of England, you silly revisionists! humanUser talk:Human 16:42, 17 December 2007 (EST)

RationalWiki Christmas Celebrations[edit]

Is it to early to start planning the RationalWiki Humanist, Christian, reconstructionist, Jewish, non-denominational, Pagan, Muslim, dominionist, politically-correct, communist, jihadist, internet-terrorist-group Christmas?--Bobbing up 05:38, 16 November 2007 (EST)

It's never too early to plan for something like that. It's here before you know it! --AKjeldsenGodspeed! 05:50, 16 November 2007 (EST)
The question is how to do it? The RW Christmas party? Everybody tries to be on-line at the same time and .... After that my imagination runs out. Give each other presents of balloons? Create Christmas cards which express our beliefs,(or more probably the lack of them)? All get drunk on-line at the same time and swap random insults which we have to apologize for the next day?--Bobbing up 06:04, 16 November 2007 (EST)


I could dust out the #rationalwiki channel on /server I'll set rat traps to, you know, have something to eat, strictly BYOB though. CЯacke® 11:26, 16 November 2007 (EST)

We could bring the spirit of christmas to conservapaedia, where at the appointed hour each and every one of us hangs up our socks and stuffs their pages full of pretty presents. God bless us, every one! --Jeeves 06:18, 16 November 2007 (EST)

Yeeeeeees, we could. But do we really want to link our Christmas celebration co closely to CP?--Bobbing up 06:25, 16 November 2007 (EST)

So, what, we all want to be on IRC when? --Linus(plot evil tech) 18:50, 20 December 2007 (EST)

It might be nice to visit ina "realtime" sorta way. I are there now but it's been quiet for lo, these many weeks. CЯacke® 18:54, 20 December 2007 (EST)
There's a party (and blubbery lovefest) on TK's talk page right 'bout now. We should have a moveable feast, party on a new user talk page each day until we get sick of it. humanUser talk:Human 21:01, 21 December 2007 (EST)

I'm waiting. No-one here but GL, (not much of a converstionalist) hint hint. CЯacke® 00:39, 25 December 2007 (EST)

I'd hang, but I just don't wanna load IRC poopware, I guess. And GL yacks a storm up, you just have to get him going! humanUser talk:Human 00:53, 25 December 2007 (EST)


21st this year? humanUser talk:Human 15:41, 17 December 2007 (EST)

Nope, 22nd. Saturday. Whoopee!!! I love it when the sun stops dying... humanUser talk:Human 15:42, 17 December 2007 (EST)
1:08 am EST, Have we something special fer der recentchanges template? CЯacke® 18:41, 20 December 2007 (EST)
Well, we've been doing a countdown, of course. How about "Ding Dong, the Sun's coming back!!!"? Someone, come up with somethin' good and get it ready... who's gonna be sober at 1 AM EST to put it up? humanUser talk:Human 18:46, 20 December 2007 (EST)
I'll be celebrating the rebirth of Balder with my family. Sorry. Researcher 18:47, 20 December 2007 (EST)
I should oughta be around then, sober. Whoever comes up with a pithy or profund thing put it in the recent changes template but just rem it out with the <!-- comment function thingie --> CЯacke® 18:58, 20 December 2007 (EST)

What is the "pagan" word for the solstice? Surely there is one... humanUser talk:Human 16:47, 21 December 2007 (EST)

Yule. (But I prefer Solstice--I think Yule sounds dumb.) Researcher 16:49, 21 December 2007 (EST)
I looked up a handful and added them all. Also, a few more arcane winter celebs. I guess I should add Soltice back in though! Thanks, humanUser talk:Human 20:53, 21 December 2007 (EST)


Should be a priority around this time of the year...-αmεσ (soldier) 15:36, 17 December 2007 (EST)

Yeah, but who wants to listen to or read B O'Re to get up to speed on the swill to remark on? At least I added a bunch of other "wars" we have articles on... humanUser talk:Human 15:40, 17 December 2007 (EST)
I think it should be moved to War on Xmas, simply because as a soldier in the war I feel that giving the name the enemy uses for itself could humanize it thus thwarting our inexorable march to victory. PFC CЯacke® 16:22, 17 December 2007 (EST)

Just A Joke[edit]

A man walks over to his friends house only to see him taking down his Christmas decorations. The man asks, "Why are you taking them down? It's another week till Christmas."

To which his friend replies, "Some of the neighbors were upset and saying I was trying to push my religion on them and their children."

The man is curious, "What neighbors? The Jewish family? The Muslim family?"

"The Jehovah's Witnesses"

Happy Holidays:)--Nate River 11:10, 29 December 2008 (EST)

I... me... am... RAAAGH![edit]

Simply, I am offended by this article. It should be known that I lost an arm and an eye in the Second Battle of Christmas Eve, and that I personally dragged 3 of my buddies out from between intense miseltoe fire! How dare you! (subset/end/inputstream = status.user.sarcasm / terminate input stream) ĴάΛäšςǍ₰ anal ectoplasms burst me...

Here, have a candy cane. EVDebs (talk) 05:43, 6 October 2010 (UTC)


I find it funny as an Australian working for an American company. Our Australian management sends people emails to say "Merry Christmas". The American big bosses send around emails saying "Happy Holidays". It's almost as if they are afraid if they say "Christmas" they'll offend somebody. I'm quite sure none of our motley crew of atheists, Hindus, Jews, Muslims, Sikhs, and others are actually offended by local management saying "Merry Christmas". It's a day off - make of it what you will. In my own family, Christmas has been totally non-religious for years (when I was a child, my parents made us go to church and all, but we are all way too old for them to make us do anything anymore, and they seem less interested in church themselves these days anyway.) Sure, for some people it still is a Christian holiday - but for others, what started as a pagan celebration, and then became a Christian one, has now become something totally secular. For me, it's all about drinking champagne and eating seafood. --(((Zack Martin))) 22:31, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Irony meter[edit]

I (knowing jack squat about US political groups) don't understand the use of "irony meter" in this article. The article goes from telling of right wingers that are railing against a supposed war on Christmas to fundamentalists (though seemingly listing only the Christian variety of fundamentalists) declaring war on Christmas. What is the ironic connection? *confused* Nullahnung (talk) 05:32, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

I assume it's based around the fact that in the U.S., "right wing" and "Christian fundamentalist" are often synonymous. At least most of the right wingers mentioned in the article also tend to swing towards the fundamentalist Christian side of things. - GrantC (talk) 05:34, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
Ah! Alrighty then. Nullahnung (talk) 05:37, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Rename article[edit]

This is not a US issue, not any more. There are now conspiracy theories circulating in several countries in Europe, claiming the imminent destruction by Muslims / multiculturalists / atheists. Especially Muslims. I suggest expanding the article and renaming it Christmas Conspiracy Theories, or something like that. Drelane (talk) 13:30, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

What in the title is US-centric? PowderSmokeAndLeather: Say something once, why say it again?.Moderator 13:58, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

Seems to be associated almost entirely with Bill O'Reilly, who is unknown outside the US. Wikipedia also used 'War on Christmas, but renamed it 'Christmas Controversy'.Drelane (talk) 10:36, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

Not really interested in what another website chose to do, thanks. But given that "War on Chbristmas" gets 5 million+ Google hits, and "Christmas controversy" gets about 32k, it seems like one is a more popular search term. If you want to make a page for the latter which redirects to the former, knock yourself out. PowderSmokeAndLeather: Say something once, why say it again?.Moderator 15:09, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

Undoubtedly recognisable to Americans, but still does not make sense elsewhere. I had never heard the term. The UK equivalent is the Winterval scare story [1]. There are also similar stories about Easter. That could all go in a separate article. Drelane (talk) 10:57, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

I don't think it needs renaming but it needs to cover more than the US. War on Christmas is also a UK thing, as stated above. Muslims and political correctness won't let you say Christmas tree any more, or similar crap. Secretlondon (talk) 18:46, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

A Heads-Up[edit]

Everyone's favorite former child star turned jerk evangelical preacher, Kirk Cameron, is making his own documentary. In the same vein as his beloved master, Ray Comfort, who made that Doc about how bad abortion was, Kirk is making on, you guessed, the War on Christmas. It's called "Saving Christmas",Complete with an incredibly self-indulgent action movie poster. While there's not much other than a trailer and a website for it now, which I don't feel like linking to because I don't want to give that bastard hits on either, it's pretty evident that this is gonna be a thing. I just thought I'd let you all know so you can update the article when it premieres. I'd do it myself, but unlike Kirky I have ethics and I don't want to give him money or waste my time listening to his drivel in order to call him out on it. Seriously, if he honestly thinks Christmas needs saving despite people spending millions on it every friggin year then he's just as stupid as everyone knows he is. Good luck you guys, love the site by the way.( (talk) 18:45, 4 October 2014 (UTC)Ryan)

Trump joins the War Effort[edit]

So according to todays Boston Herald, Trump reportedly told his wife that, if she should be a store that wishes her "Happy Holidays", that she should never go to that store again. Can anyone confirm this happened, and if so, if it's worth mentioning anywhere on the wiki? Nergali (talk) 21:57, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Mithras[edit] that Christmas is part of the war against Sol Invictus.

And the Soviet Union was wound up 25 years ago this Christmas. (talk) 17:04, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Wrong pagan holiday[edit]

If "Christmas itself was first made by blatantly ripping off a pagan holiday" (as claimed in the article text), then that pagan holiday was Dies Natalis Solis Invicti, and NOT Yule! "Yule" is a blatant anachronism in this context (completely historically incorrect). AnonMoos (talk) 16:26, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

Early Christians weren't even interested in "ripping off" pagans in the manner anti-Christmas proponents say (the snarky "not even Christian" ones; not the nonexistent 'real' ones). They were syncretic in those days, with chapels keeping the customs its converts previously had, like how hymns became Christianised when converts from some central Asian religious groups carried on their custom of singing at shrines. -- Forerunner (talk) 20:01, 24 August 2017 (UTC)


If you look for images of the goddess Asherah in Google, you'll eventually find what looks like someone claiming the Christmas Tree thing is basically to worship her (see here, for example).

Let me know if that could be added to this article, or better, the one on said goddess. Panzerfaust (talk) 15:15, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

It might be better added to the Asherah page instead. There's possibly a grain of truth in it. Encyclopædia Britannica: "The use of evergreen trees, wreaths, and garlands to symbolize eternal life was a custom of the ancient Egyptians, Chinese, and Hebrews. Tree worship was common among the pagan Europeans and survived their conversion to Christianity in the Scandinavian customs of decorating the house and barn with evergreens at the New Year to scare away the devil and of setting up a tree for the birds during Christmas time."[2] Bongolian (talk) 18:37, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
I'll add it there later. The Asherah adoration thing, however, looks like a Fundie rant to me -I knew the part of Christmas trees having a pagan origin, but said association with her being Asherah pretty much forgotten is at least too much forced-. Panzerfaust (talk) 00:41, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

How come[edit]

… there is no mention of a 'War against Easter'? Anna Livia (talk) 10:32, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

The converse[edit]

... can be found here - or an advertising gimmick. Anna Livia (talk) 18:28, 28 September 2022 (UTC)