Difference between revisions of "RationalWiki:Saloon bar"

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[http://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/tomorrowsworld/8005.shtml More like 40]. {{User:Lily/sig}} 19:40, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
 
[http://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/tomorrowsworld/8005.shtml More like 40]. {{User:Lily/sig}} 19:40, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
 
:Let me get this straight. You brits had the internet back in 1967? This changes everything! --{{User:Onion/sig}} 19:48, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
 
:Let me get this straight. You brits had the internet back in 1967? This changes everything! --{{User:Onion/sig}} 19:48, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
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== Saltwater Aquariums ==
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 +
I'm thinking of getting a saltwater aquarium at some point after we move, but I've only kept freshwater and tropical fish before. Anyone here have any experience? I was under the impression they are a lot of hard work, but all the documents I've seen online say you can manage one with a moderate amount of attention. {{User:Crundy/Sig|}} 20:19, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Revision as of 20:19, 5 October 2010


Saloon bar
WIGO Bar colour.png

Welcome, BoN
This is a place for general chit-chat about virtually anything that doesn't fit anywhere else.
Beer.gif For previous conversations, see the automagic barchives.Beer.gif

What is going on?

(talk) (talk) (talk) (talk) (hic)

Pointless poll

Favorite vampire?

Sheridan Le Fanu's CarmillaWikipedia (1872)

13

Vote

Bram Stoker's DraculaWikipedia (1897)

18

Vote

F. W. Murnau's NosferatuWikipedia (1922)

7

Vote

Marv Wolfman and Gene Colan's The Tomb of DraculaWikipedia (1972-1979)

4

Vote

The legendary Chupacabra vampire goat sucker

18

Vote

To do list

Appointed Trustees and foundation updates (important) (Sticky)

(please to unsticky when this is history ħumanUser talk:Human 07:26, 20 July 2010 (UTC) )

As has been discussed in multiple locations we will soon be taking an important step with the formation of a non-profit corporation to manage RW. Everything is slated to begin the first week of August. There will be a period of 3-4 months as we transition ownership, and work on establishing all the little elements needed for the foundation to function.

The work will be done by myself and 2 appointed trustees that will make up the initial board. The goal will be to have elections for the remaining trustee positions in January 2011. There is a lot that has to be done in the mean time, and your feedback, support and encouragement is appreciated. My goal is to make the establishment, the transition, and ultimately the management of the foundation as open and accountable to the RW users as possible.

The appointed trustees for this period are Human and Armondikov. While the three of us are ultimately responsible for seeing this thing done and done properly any concerns, feedback, suggestions, or help that anyone wishes to give is great.

The rough outline for what is going to happen is as follows:

  • File papers of incorporation in NM (early August) done
  • File papers with the IRS (early-mid August) done
  • Approval of the by-laws (early-mid August) done
  • Transition ownership of the domain, hardware and other physical and intellectual property from me to the foundation (late August) done
  • Begin working out election of trustees, voting and nomination process, timelines, etc. (September/October)
  • Finalize election procedures for trustees (Hopefully by November)
  • Establishment of financial accounts for the foundation (Likely December as I will need to return to NM for a lot of it)
  • Hold our first election for trustees (January)
  • Hold our first full meeting of the board (January/February), where we establish general protocol for meetings, site management, etc.

Financial costs

None of this is free. Every document filed with the Secretary of State, the IRS, and state tax agencies has fees attached to them. Official copies of documents, notarization, and establishing legal ways to sign contracts electronically all have associated costs. I am prepared to foot whatever bill is necessary to see this through but if anyone has a few dollars they can afford to throw my way to help curtail the costs to myself personally I would be grateful. tmtoulouse 06:29, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Do you have an estimate of the overall cost, including personal esigs, etc.? ħumanUser talk:Human 07:32, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
On the order of $500-$600, which is why I am asking for assistance. tmtoulouse 07:47, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
I'll dump some spare cash your way but you'll have to wait until October for anything substantial. Scarlet A.pngnarchist 10:27, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
Hang on... if it costs this much, can we not go ahead with it "unofficially", as in do all the ground work and treat it "as if" it was real, and then incorporate properly when we A) have a need and B) have the cash? It can't cost anything to do it all "informally" and do the paper work further down the line, or am I missing something, like does the paperwork have to be done in order to share the physical responsibility such as potential lawsuits? Scarlet A.pngnarchist 10:29, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
Having it all filed is what gives the shielding. It creates a new "person" in a legal sense to take on the burdens. So no. It has to be in existence for any of the benefits to work. If we're (say) sued, and then file, then it only shields us as of when it's created. And ~$600 is right. I just did all that crap last summer. The bonus is, most of it is relatively painless. (I made a for-profit corporation, but I assume most of the paper work is similar.) Quaru (talk) 10:40, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
I figured as much. I was just wondering if we could run "as if" and then if someone filed against us, we'd run away and cry. Scarlet A.pngnarchist 10:48, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
Well, sure. We could also shove broccoli in our ears and run through the streets naked. I just don't think it'd help the situation much. Quaru (talk) 10:57, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
Could we keep the broccoli thing as possible future idea? It has promise. Thanks for the update. I'll do the PayPal thing early next month ConcernedResident omg ponies!!! 12:06, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

The largest cost is with the IRS, and that doesn't have to be done right away anyway. tmtoulouse 15:11, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Skill (and bravery?)

I don't know who deserves applause more the driver or the girl. 11:58, 30 September 2010 (UTC) SusanG Toast

Didn't Ken have a variant of this terrific piccy?
(Both above Hat tip 12:16, 30 September 2010 (UTC) SusanG Toast
I would have like to see how it coped with a bra strap, that's where most men have problems. Also, why am I not surprised that this is from an Italian TV station? Redchuck.gif ГенгисIs the Pope a Catholic? 12:29, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
P.S. But not this guy. Redchuck.gif ГенгисIs the Pope a Catholic? 12:32, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Yes, that would have to be Italian television. --BobSpring is sprung! 13:17, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Didn't realise it was, is that on the soundtrack? SusanG Toast 13:23, 30 September 2010 (UTC) SusanG Toast
The soundtrack is Italian. Still got problems there?--BobSpring is sprung! 13:25, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Yup! 13:27, 30 September 2010 (UTC) SusanG Toast
It says RAI Due in the top right corner. RAI is the Italian state broadcaster. Redchuck.gif ГенгисIs the Pope a Catholic? 14:15, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
What worries me is who wakes up one morning and says, "I've got a great way for us to be on TV, darling! Now you stand over there, while I fetch the digger..." Still, pretty nifty though. --PsyGremlin話しなさい 12:45, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Yes, I often wonder how people come to realise they can do this sort of thing... Scarlet A.pngnarchist 13:28, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
This is still one of the better talent show thingies I've seen. --PsyGremlinSnakk! 13:37, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
It was impressive the first time. Then they came back and performed exactly the same routine. When told they'd have to change something, they came back, did exactly the same routine again, but claimed that because the guy was wearing a neck tie he'd changed something. CrundyTalk nerdy to me 14:05, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
I think it is a variation on the old Chinese face mask changing - lots of very fine silk layers. Redchuck.gif ГенгисIs the Pope a Catholic? 14:15, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Lately I've been trying to figure out how magic acts like this are done. Watching a few on America's Got Talent this year I think I have the basics of several of them. It seems many involve fitting people into small places it looks like a person can't fit (the base of a glass box and the like). Anyone know much about these things? Am I off base here? (Getting quite off topic here, I realize.) DickTurpis (talk) 17:57, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
I saw a video where they showed a woman climbing into a small basket, and the magician then inserts loads of swords going straight through. They showed you inside the basket and you could see there was loads of room for the assistant to grab the tip of the swords and manuvere them out of harms way. CrundyTalk nerdy to me 19:24, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Ah, here you go [1] CrundyTalk nerdy to me 19:25, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Those sorts of tricks are usually pretty easy. I was wondering about stuff like this. I sort of have it figured out. It's easy when you realize that the hand coming through the cloth isn't either of theirs (still unsure of exactly what the real deal with the hand is, though). Notice how as soon as the woman pulls the cloth away at the end it switches from a left hand to a right hand. DickTurpis (talk) 21:59, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Magic's Biggest Secrets came back for another series recently. Although once you've seen one explained, you can kind of see the tricks coming. Mostly stage illusions all rely on you thinking differently to what you're seeing. Like with the swords/basket routine you're seeing a huge wicker basket, but you're thinking small, cramped space. In the speedy transformations (where someone escapes from a locked box and replaces the person standing on it) you think it's done in a few seconds, but forget about the vital tens of seconds before the "switch" where they'd be escaping and getting into position, and the tens of seconds afterwards while the other person is getting inside the box. You saw it happen over the course of a minute, you think it happened over the course of a few seconds. Derren Brown explains it quite nicely and gives other examples. Like with a feat of memory, you say you're going to memorise a list of words in three seconds and everyone thinks you did it in three seconds, but you actually had a minute or so because people forget the amount of time it took to read out the list and make it first. It kind of backfired on his lottery prediction, where people picked up on the fact he only revealed the numbers after the draw, but that's the basic principle. Scarlet A.pngnarchist 19:10, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
I saw one of those recently and pretty soon had a good idea how the illusion was created. One where the magician was allegedly holding his breath in a tank of water I guessed that the assistant had attached an airline to him when she was supposed to be checking his pulse on his neck.  Lily Inspirate me. 22:20, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
The first time I saw Metamorphasis performed was at Covent Garden by a couple of street magicians. That was by far the quickest switch I've ever seen. The guy literally threw the curtain up in the air, and it dropped a second later with him in the box, lid closed, and the assistant standing on top of the box. Even though I know how it's done now, I can't for the life of me work out how they did it that quickly. CrundyTalk nerdy to me 08:13, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Behe tour

According to the CID "Mike" Behe is undertaking a UK tour in November. Anybody up for it?  Lily Inspirate me. 16:07, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

No, I have far more important and interesting things to do, like counting my rice. CrundyTalk nerdy to me 17:44, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
I am guessing Lily is asking people to troll it, so counting rice is more important than publicly humiliating Behe? [[User:K61824|]][[User_talk:K61824|]] 18:48, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Won't happen. He has a sniper rifle full of bullets made of bollocks. There's literally nothing you could say that would make him look stupid and make you a hero. He's a professional bullshit monger. You'll just end up reinforcing the believers in the audience's hatred of atheists. CrundyTalk nerdy to me 19:21, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
@Crundy: Hey! You stole that metaphor from Tim Minchin! Tetronian you're clueless 21:48, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Speaking of storm, isn't the movie coming out this month? I can't wait to see how that was modeled. --Opcn (talk) 08:29, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
Indeed I did. Been listening to that song at work. CrundyTalk nerdy to me 09:11, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
It might be interesting if RW could get a presence. Not to troll it 4Chan style but to either put forward questions, secure an interview or just be present. Scarlet A.pngnarchist 10:26, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
He never comes within reach of me, damnit. 10:34, 1 October 2010 (UTC) SusanG Toast
Taking notes and then refuting them here would be good. CrundyTalk nerdy to me 10:59, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
A recording would be nice... ħumanUser talk:Human 00:40, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
Fuck me, his website is clearly not intelligently designed. I might go along to one of them, although six quid is two pints' worth... If there's a Q&A it could be fun. DeltaStarSenior SysopSpeciationspeed! 13:54, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Secrets of Scientology

I highly recommend watching it. It's the follow up to 'Scientology and Me' from 2007 - the one where John Sweeney lost it and started shouting at the douche from the Church of Scientology. Basically, this newer documentary hinges on the fact that one of the guys that was trailing Sweeney three years ago has since quit the church and dragged the secrets with him. He's admitted that the entire incident was pretty much a set-up and that the church lied about trailing Sweeney and investigating them in 2007. Scarlet A.pngnarchist 00:22, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

I think this is it. 16:45, 3 October 2010 (UTC) SusanG Toast
They let it go on YouTube instead of just keeping it on iPlayer. Nice. Scarlet A.pngnarchist 08:55, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

We shall fight them on the beaches

I am a jingoistic oppressor of the Irish, apparently, because I wrote an article on Wikipedia called "list of British Isles rockpool life". I am Oliver Cromwell. Totnesmartin (talk) 09:42, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

s'funny, I've always pictured you as a bit of a Cavalier actually. I wouldn't worry too much about a BoN concern troll. --PsyGremlin話しなさい 10:02, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
I find it quite amusing. I do like the way his other edits are about the big issues of Irish history, then he makes a one-off detour to whinge about puddles on the beach. Maybe a grockle kicked his sandcastle when he was a small boy. Hmm, Cavalier? Romantic but wrong? Yeah, that's me, a bit. Totnesmartin (talk) 10:21, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
There is a small group of absolutely insufferable Irish at Wikipedia. One of the main ones is borderline retarded. DickTurpis (talk) 10:55, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
I'm pleased it's not just RW that gets retarded talk page criticism. Scarlet A.pngnarchist 14:18, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
Do I detect another fan of that fine book of history, 1066 And All That? --Kels (talk) 15:51, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
That type of Irish rockpool life just annoys the hell out of me. It's a geographical term, you cunts, get over it. DogPMarmite Patrol 15:56, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
wp:Talk:British Isles is one of the things I point out to people who claim that certain forms of idiocy are unique to the Balkans...--ZooGuard (talk) 16:16, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
Oh Gawd, Balkan issues in WP are something I try to avoid, just because of the silly nationalist posturing. Totnesmartin (talk) 17:22, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
The Irish comment is incomprehensible anyway. British Isles is the name for the Islands, and the "list" lists animals not places.--BobSpring is sprung! 16:59, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Anybody know much about this woo site

Natural News? I've been hearing more about it's alleged crank ideas a lot more about the interwebs lately, and was just curious if anybody knew anything behind-the-scenes about it. Punky Your mental puke relief 15:42, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Orac has been writing about NaturalNews for several years now - see here. Colonel of Squirrels你有两头母牛。他们是删掉了。 17:14, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
Hmmmm, perhaps the site is article-worthy? Doesn't look like we have anything on 'em right now. The Goonie 1 What's this button do? Uh oh.... 06:09, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
Well, if anybody wants to help, I created an article about the site, which is currently a stub. Punky Your mental puke relief 16:43, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Is Ecology thought of as a soft science?

Perhaps this is my paranoid physics envy showing but since we have a great collection of science-minded types here I was wondering what everybody thinks or has heard of the scientific rigours of ecology both in the scientific community and the general public. At my own university I have heard firsthand people taking ecology courses specifically because they are thought of as easy in comparison to say genetics or cell bio and I absolutely agree that the way it is taught leans to the simplistic and completely ignores the interconnectedness of the discipline (something I hope to change when I teach it). And I, on thinking of what to specialize in in grad school thought of the instrumentation/methodology side and making it better, getting away from using so much statistics, though I realize this is simply one of the limitations to the subject. That being said the primary literature does not read like a soft science to me though I realize that as soon as you start broadening your scope you are forced to start extrapolating from samples, just like the social sciences. Anyways, forgive the rant, I still love the subject no matter what people think of it. NetharianCubicles are prisons! 18:42, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

It might just be considered "soft" because it doesn't have the broad label of the main three; chemistry, physics, biology. Indeed, I technically graduated with "Chemistry with Energy, Resources and Environmental Management" but thought the extension "polluted" it so I just have "Chemistry" on the certificate. It's the same with other disciplines. I have a friend doing Geography (something I didn't realise actually existed at university level!) and I keep forgetting she's therefore a proper science student - with appropriate levels of commitment and rigour - and not some artsy or humanities student. You'd then expect people to give more credit to Ecology if you said it was just a specialist aspect of Biology. Scarlet A.pngnarchist 23:26, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
My son is a marine biologist (2nd year masters) and most of his work at the moment is ecology. I'm fairly sure that his current work isn't considered soft science. Indeed he tells me it's the most rigorous research he's been involved in so far. Anyway the appeal of it to him is indeed the interconnectedness of it! Ajkgordon (talk) 09:58, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
I'm reminded of the quote from Ernest Rutherford. "Physics is the only real science. The rest are just stamp collecting." Don't blame me, I'm just quoting the great man. --BobSpring is sprung! 15:48, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
Physics? There is no physics - it's all gnomes! Totnesmartin (talk) 15:51, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

The Producers

I just got the 1968 version and I have to say, with the exception of Willy Wonka as Leo Bloom and LSD, the 2005 version was vastly superior.--Thanatos (talk) 19:10, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

As the world's self proclaimed #1 Mel Brooks fan, I must say, in as few words as possible, that I agree with the above statement. Lord of the Goons The official spikey-haired skeptical punk 19:12, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
Unfortunately it had Will Ferrell in it. On balance the staging of "Springtime for Hitler" is much better although Brook's continued insistence of using his own voice for "Don't be stupid... ...Nazi Party" is a bit incongruous. He also used the same lines in Sweet Georgia Brown.  Lily Inspirate me. 19:19, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
Agree. Will Ferrell ruined it for me. The guy in the original was much better. Don't get me wrong, I do like Will Ferrell, but I think it was the wrong role. CrundyTalk nerdy to me 20:02, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

It doesn't matter, that song is just too catchy! ~'It's springtime, For Hitler, And Germany'~.. gets me every time, i taught my bird to whistle it :DHKJGN (talk) 20:59, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

But who the hell starts a song on a descending 7th!?!? Scarlet A.pngnarchist 23:21, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
Wikipedia does not have an article on "descending 7th" or "descending seventh", therefore it does not exist. I call Liberal Deceit on you! ħumanUser talk:Human 04:04, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm a bit surprised at this. I only saw part of the new version, admittedly, but from what I did see I really preferred the original. Then again, I was never a big fan of musicals. DickTurpis (talk) 06:18, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Springtime for Hitler - That. Nods.gif Scarlet A.pngnarchist 12:02, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

It starts on a descending 7th Because the Fuhrer Said so!Don't ask questions! Achtung! Achtung! Schnell! Gelangen Sie an die Linien! verteidigen Sie das große Deutschland!HKJGN (talk) 14:22, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Spewing gibbirsh

These god damn fucking talking heads on television spraying bad vibes and awful gibberish. They wont stop and god damn I have had enough of all this bullshit. penis faced fuckbags, I had enough. I have a sharp knife and I'll use it. i9 06:00, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

This is why science invented the Off button.  Lily Inspirate me. 07:08, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
Lol. It's the big red one. ħumanUser talk:Human 08:55, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

A quick question

I don't know the political orientation of my fellow RW folks, but I just have to ask this.... Do conservatives really think phrases like "lame stream media" "Nobama," "Obummer" and "Democrooks" are clever or even remotely amusing? I have conservative friends who use these all the time as if it's intelligent or appropriate to do so and they don't seem to realize that it makes them sounds stupid and childish, so my question to all my right leaning folks: is this what passes for humor and intelligence in most conservative circles or do I just have really stupid friends? SirChuckBObama/Biden? 2012 08:39, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

We're all ni%%ers, like you. !!!! ħumanUser talk:Human 09:01, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
I'm guessing that their reaction is no worse, and no less dumb, than all the liberals calling George W 'Dubbya' and so forth. It's probably a common trait in political discussion (i.e. drunken pontificating at the bar) to belittle and dumb-down the opposition. Usually at the expense of making yourself look a complete 'nana. --PsyGremlinSprich! 09:15, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
I don't think you get that sort of thing in the UK. Although we're usually about 5-10 years behind the US and if the Daily Mail's plunge into insanity is anything to go by, it'll not be long before we start getting such phrases entering the lexicon. Even the most hardened Tory Boys probably wouldn't go for those sort of phrases - unless they're really posh and are just going to use them "ironically". Scarlet A.pngnarchist 12:00, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
It does occur in the UK but it is, thankfully, toned down. And restricted mostly to (daily mail) online comments. Recall "B'Liar", "Nu Labour", "Ca-moron", etc. That said, I think most of it is parody. ONE / TALK 13:42, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
Well, that's what I mean. It's mostly toned down to people who think they're being witty. Rather than actively meaning it in a malicious sense, as you get in the US. Scarlet A.pngnarchist 14:02, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
My favourite was ZaNu-Liebour, top notch. Gorgon Brown and Bleary Hazel were shit. Although as One has said, it's only done on online comments etc, not by supposedly serious political writers. DeltaStarSenior SysopSpeciationspeed! 14:16, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
Give it a couple of months, Peter Hitchens is almost there. Scarlet A.pngnarchist 15:48, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
For what it's worth, I don't think that phrases like "lame stream media" are intrinsically unfunny. Rather, I have a low opinion of people who talk like that because:
  1. We got it the first time, so if you continue to replace the word "media" with "lame stream media" in every single sentence, you sound clueless and obsessive.
  2. If you've picked up on this meme, you've probably been listening to Palin & Co. And taking them seriously. Which does not imply good things about you.
-- Quantheory (talk) 01:02, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
It's really all a part of the Newspeak. Keep saying it often enough and it worms its way into the proles' subconscious. And controlling the unthinking masses is really what power-grabbing is all about.  Lily Inspirate me. 07:49, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
Lily has it right. When pundits, bloggers, etc. coin these idiotic phrases they're really just doing the same thing as politicians & spin doctors do with soundbites & campaign slogans: reducing complex issues to simplistic black&white phrases that stick in the mind. This can sway those who are easily influenced & re-enforce the views of supporters. If people use these kind of phrases too much then yes, they do sound stupid & childish, but I think that (as with slang etc.) the reasons they are so widely used have something to do with group identity - bonding with like-minded people (the ingroup) by using shared jargon & memes, while belittling & ridiculing the opposition (the outgroup). WeaseloidWeaselly.jpgMethinks it is a Weasel 22:49, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

6 Degrees of Facebook

You know where FB throws up 'People you may know' (and 9 times out of 10 it's somebody I've never heard of) I'm sometimes amazed when I click on the 'mutual friends' link, to see friends from completely opposite sides of the spectrum, also friends with that person. s'funny that. --PsyGremlinHable! 10:40, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

I once found someone linked to me by three completely different friends, one of which was actually someone I only know online but we managed to track each other via Facebook when the original site died a death. The other two were acquaintances more than close friends, but they were also completely different groups. The whole six degrees thing is scary... Scarlet A.pngnarchist 11:57, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
I met someone from South Africa last summer, his name was John and he lives in Cape Town, perhaps you know him?  Lily Inspirate me. 11:59, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
lol, scary thing is, I do know a John in Cape Town :) Still you're not as bad as the Yank who asked if I knew Peter in Lagos. --PsyGremlinRunāt! 12:23, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

PIE

Apple pie.JPG

Piece a pie? Totnesmartin (talk) 13:47, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

I hope you have clotted cream to go with that? Anything less is an affront to the Apple God, who gave of his seed that you may partake of his essence. Or something. It's been a long weekend. --PsyGremlinSiarad! 13:57, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
Psy, that is scarily close to neopagan philosophy. Steady now. Totnesmartin (talk) 22:15, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
Needs latticing. DogPMarmite Patrol 14:18, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

It is Librul Deceit!HKJGN (talk) 14:26, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Your white balance is way off. --151.82.63.159 (talk) 17:38, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
No, I have a blue kitchen. Totnesmartin (talk) 18:15, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
I see. And you make apple pie out of blueberries. --151.82.63.159 (talk) 18:36, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
Yes. Apple flavour. Totnesmartin (talk) 18:50, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

At the risk of being assassinated

While working on a quick project for a Poli Sci class, I am seeing more and more crap out of Israel that makes me wonder how the hell they have any allies left? I mean, the attack on the Liberty, the multiple kidnapping and renditions of citizens from sovereign nations, usually done under forged passports... Why do the Western powers allow this? I mean, if say.... Iran had forged British passports to kidnap French citizens in Italy, they would be surrounded by tanks and the government would be in hiding. SirChuckBDMorris for new Jinx! 20:36, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

How much different is that from what the CIA does? The PATRIOT Act? Extraordinary renditions? Guantánamo? Blue (is useful) 20:40, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Who is to say that Iran doesn't do that? I fail to cite sources but the Iranian news reporter that was held hostage who appeared on the Daily Show said that the Military told him that if he ever spoke out against the Government again, anywhere, that they would find him, that they had 'the power' to bring him back if he did. In addition, it's the same as the charges of the Chinese and Russians hacking the US regularly, but in turn we do it just as often, if not much more, we just have more at stake. It's a matter of subjectivity, all of the larger countries do it, it's just not talked about in the media or anywhere.HKJGN (talk) 20:44, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

It's not much different, but serveral countries throughout the world complained loudly about Guantanamo and the renditions that the United States performed, there was little international outrage over the PATRIOT act because that was a domestic issue. As for the other countries that do it, when Russia sent agents into England and killed someone, there was huge outrage and tension, and China has been getting pressure for years over this.... But the difference is, we seem to just sweep it under the rug when Israel does it. What? They boarded a ship in international waters and killed nine Turks? Oh well, it may be a violation of international law and an act of piracy, but it's Israel so we'll let it go. SirChuckBCall the FBI 20:51, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
At the end of the day Chuck, Israel is on our side. So we forgive them many things, and slap them on the wrist for the rest. Most of their crimes are crimes against nations or groups which may broadly be classed as hostile, so no-one really cares. EddyP (talk) 20:54, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
Anyone in any doubt about Israel's crimes, but also about how dissent and even questioning what Israel does is suppressed within Israel should read this (slightly lengthy) but compelling article. Bondurant (talk) 06:28, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
Sad, but good, post... ħumanUser talk:Human 08:17, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
Agree. Goodpost.gif Blue (is useful) 18:57, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
I think it was Johann Hari who has said that most of Israel's influence and ability to get away with murder (metaphorical and literal) is because of the evangelical Christian right in the US, rather than anything its done itself. Scarlet A.pngnarchist 08:35, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
The thing that is most deeply disturbing about the debate over Israeli policy is that apparently, it simply cannot be had. And until that isn't the case, the only thing politically powerful people seem to be allowed to say without consequence for their careers is "it's a terrible situation, isn't it? Yes, tragic. Someone ought to do something about that". It's a fucking disgrace. DogPMarmite Patrol 17:35, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
Israel gets away with a lot. It's got nuclear weapons, it carries out generalised punishment against civilian populations, it has two classes of citizens on its soil based on their religious affiliation perhaps I should check this one. If any other country did this sort of stuff it would be in danger of being invaded by the US.--BobSpring is sprung! 17:53, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Donald Duck and Glenn Beck

This is Fuckin' Hilarious--Thanatos (talk) 22:01, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

That was awesome! Laughing.gif --Oniontalk/edits 22:23, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
That's brilliant! Whoever made that should give themselves a pat on the back. Tetronian you're clueless 22:50, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
Most excellent! ħumanUser talk:Human 23:29, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
Very good, indeed.  Lily Inspirate me. 09:05, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
Well done, Mr. Jonathon McIntosh of www.rebelliouspixels.com. Credit where it's due. DogPMarmite Patrol 16:59, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
Funny. But needs MOAR HITLER! --PsyGremlin話しなさい 17:16, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

24 different types of libertarians

I found this comic while surfing the web, and I thought you might like it! (Unless, of course, you're actually a libertarian) --Oniontalk/edits 01:40, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Liking the "more libertarian than thou". Tell you what, privatise crime too and you'll be sorted! Oh, wait... Scarlet A.pngnarchist 08:18, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
Reading the rest of those cartoons I think we might need to add Barry Deutsch to the list of really embarrassing liberals. Some of it is almost in Karajou territory. Scarlet A.pngnarchist 12:36, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
Eh, kinda boring. Mostly the usual trite, cliched criticisms of libertarians one expects from the MoveOn/Daily Kos crowd. "Creepy" and "Stoned" are kinda funny. The best spoof of some of the nutjobs who hang around libertarian circles is still the 1970 book It Usually Begins With Ayn Rand. Leave it to a libertarian to do the only really funny job of spoofing their own. Secret Squirrel (talk) 14:15, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
I think I now know what they're talking about when people say Liberal White Guilt... Scarlet A.pngnarchist 15:35, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
It seems I should have looked at the other cartoons at that site, because they are all very embarrassing and often filled with strawman arguments. I never thought liberal guilt actually did exist but this proves that it does! --Oniontalk/edits 19:43, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

I dunno, I found it funny, in a childish sort of way of course. I think sometimes it's nice to stop trying so hard to make a point on things, and just enjoy the Ironic Stereotype, even if it's not true, kinda like watching Comedians talk about the difference between white/black people, when there isn't really, it's just childishly humorous.HKJGN (talk) 20:54, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Sputnik & the legacy of science

It is very much in the interest of the right wing to keep science educators busy defending public education from creationism than it is to have a well informed, rational, skeptical population. 06:52, 4 October 2010 (UTC) SusanG Toast

A bit pessimistic, assuming we can't stop the stupidity any more.... but considering support for Sarah Palin, they may be unfortunately right. Scarlet A.pngnarchist 12:32, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Do as I say...

...not as I do. Top 10 Anti-Gay Activists Caught Being Gay --PsyGremlinParlez! 13:00, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

(Conservative spin)): "SEE! even those Dirty Man-Loving heathens know they don't deserve equal rights!"HKJGN (talk) 20:56, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

There. I said it.

Fed up with people mis-accusing others of logical fallacies, I have decided to coin a new aphorism:

"Correlation does not imply causation" does not imply noncausation.

There. I said it. ONE / TALK 13:28, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

That needed to be said. Well said. DeltaStarSenior SysopSpeciationspeed! 13:37, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
Well, correlation doesn't imply causation. But as they say, it does stand in the corner saying "psst, look over there!" You can also do the same thing and say "absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence" isn't evidence of non-absence. Scarlet A.pngnarchist 14:23, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

All of these pithy little logical memes are for you bloody frequentist. Us more highly evolved Bayesians don't get mucked down but such binary, arbitrary and context free distinctions. tmtoulouse 16:23, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Trent wins the thread. (Interestingly, from a Bayesian perspective, absence of evidence is evidence of absence!) Tetronian you're clueless 17:28, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
Surely not? As that's a logical disconnect the same as conflating "all men are human" being the same as "all humans are men". Although I see the point that since you can't really prove a negative, it sort of makes sense... except... actually, never mind, I had it and then lost it. Scarlet A.pngnarchist 20:41, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
Your equating absolutes when in statistics everything is probabilistic based on data. The "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" in statistics is best equated with the idea that one can not prove the null hypothesis but rather fail to reject it. However, Bayes equation can actually assign relative probabilities to the null hypothesis and the alternative hypotheses presented. So if a specific hypothesis makes a prediction that something should be observed, and it is not, in the frequentist paradigm you have "failed to reject the null hypothesis" and not really provided evidence for the null hypothesis. However, you can use the lack of an observed prediction to update your Bayesian priors and as such absence of evidence can be used as evidence for absence. tmtoulouse 21:53, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
That's definitely the clearest explanation of it that I've seen in a while. Tetronian you're clueless 12:44, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
As I like to think of it, looking into a room and seeing that it appears empty is very good evidence that it contains no people, tables, or dragons, but very bad evidence that it contains no air, germs, or invisible pink unicorns. If the presence of something does, in fact, imply that finding certain evidence is more probable, then absence of evidence is evidence of absence.--Quantheory (talk) 01:24, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Medal of Honor

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/11465565 Sigh. Seems quite... juvenile to me. Almost like it's denial that troops actually do die in the war. Is the ban on televising soldiers dying still in effect in the US? Also, how dare they even suggest the Taliban are real, or human, dammit! Scarlet A.pngnarchist 14:31, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

So, the "friends and families of fallen soldiers" object to people playing the Taliban and killing American soldiers, but won't object to people playing something called "Opposing Force" and... killing American soldiers. WTF?--ZooGuard (talk) 17:03, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
I have no fucking clue. I can't compute how it makes any sense. Scarlet A.pngnarchist 17:14, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
EA is dodging anticipated criticism. They know that there will be outraged news reports that will say "Video game allows kids to play at being terrorists!!!!!111one!!!" They'll never be able to get the message out that:
  • It's only in multi-player.
  • The entire point of the game is military battle, and someone has to be the "bad guys". MDB (talk) 17:19, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
It's not dodging anticipated criticism because it's already been criticised for it. It it was anticipated, no one would have noticed it and it would have gone the same way as COD4 when it used OpFor in multiplayer. Scarlet A.pngnarchist 18:01, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
As MDB said, if you're playing a multiplayer game like this, you have to have good guys v bad guys. Considering the comtemporary theme of the game, it makes sense for the bad guys to be the Taliban. I didn't see them crying about Counter Strike where you can play the "Terrorists" and have to plant bombs. CrundyTalk nerdy to me 08:06, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

God turns back on America!

In a stunning surprise today, God withdrew His favour from the US Ryder Cup team, allowing the combined atheistic team from Europe to win by a single point. The Almighty seemed to forget that US team member Zack Johnson had even dedicated his Masters' win to Him and could not find within Himself the mercy to let the Americans claim the win thanks to Divine Intervention.

Unconfirmed reports say that the next sportsman who casts his eyes Heavenward after scoring a try/touchdown/century/wicket/100m dash win, is likely to be smitten by Holy Lightning. Speaking on behalf of God, Metatron had this to say, "The Big Grey Bearded Bloke is far too busy making sure that the 10 gazillion googleplex atoms of the universe don't go spinning off in every which way - hello? who thought it was a good idea to make every atom negative on the outside? But does He listen? Noooo - to acknowledge every little God botherer, who can't seem to understand that it had less to do with God (although He did help Nancy Kerrigan out once) and more their training. He feels a few well aimed lightning bolts might solve the matter."

Sorry, just getting this in, before the onion or CP. --PsyGremlin話しなさい 15:29, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

OMG Conservapedia everything

Okay, I would just like to say something. I am freaking tired of all the references to CP on RW...

... It's giving me nightmares about people really so deluded gathering together to form an idiocy greater than the sum of its parts. It just can't be possible, CP must be some prank. Aphoxema (talk) 16:05, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

CP is that way ----> 16:21, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
You're just playing into the conspiracy trying to fool us into believing there's such a thing as madmen. Aphoxema (talk) 16:22, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
Whatever do you mean? We're all mad. Didn't you know that? Ever since they started to put LSD in the water (you believed it was fluorine right?) It's just that some of us don't drink the water, so we aren't as mad as everybody else. --PsyGremlinSermā! 16:26, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
Are you telling me that adding LSD to my water purifier was unnecessary? Aphoxema (talk) 16:31, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
Heavens no! In fact it should be compulsory. --PsyGremlinHable! 16:44, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
I fear that somehow we've strayed from my point, which even looking back through the discussion is beyond me. Aphoxema (talk) 16:53, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
That tends to happen when there's LSD in the water supply. DogPMarmite Patrol 01:27, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
http://xkcd.com/790/ --Quantheory (talk) 01:46, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Number of gays

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11466650
This is an interesting one. Mostly because there is some sensible discussion about sampling and survey biases to be had. Certainly Kinsey's figures are very flawed as he had the mother of all sampling biases and, well, it was Kinsey. And the ONS survey may well be an underestimate because it doesn't count people who don't openly identify as gay - although surely, people who are uncomfortable or in denial won't quadruple the ONS figure to match previous studies. I decided to replicate it the only way I know how, via Facebook, and got 5.2%. But there's one circle of friends on there who are, frankly, are a statistical cluster as they're an LGBT Social group who also happen to hang around one of the societies that I'm in. So I think that 5.2% figure is skewed upwards of the mean. I imagine that these "skepical gay groups" will think the figure is too low because they, by the very virtue of being in a gay group (such as the social group I know) they'll hang around and come into contact with more gay people than just random, so for them the figure will appear much, much higher. I'd get the same effect if I asked how many people have degrees or postgraduate degrees; I'm in a position where it's near enough 100% but we all know that isn't the case on a larger scale! Here is the report, also. Refusal/don't know is ~3%, so perhaps it might be higher - but we're talking about active identity, and people who don't know or are dodging the question obviously don't identify, do they? Also, religion data is on the next page. No accompanying knowledge test this time, though. Scarlet A.pngnarchist 18:37, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Speaking purely for my self, I never answer such questions about my sexuality - especially in a face to face interview or over the phone, as in the above survey. I still feel uncomfortable giving my sexual preferences to the nurse in sexual health check ups. But as I said, I am speaking purely for myself.--AMassiveGay (talk) 20:27, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
Last week's More or Less (which I mentioned four days ago but has already been archived) also covered this topic.  Lily Inspirate me. 20:29, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
Before this incident, I haven't ever seen a number lower than 3% from a reputable source (i.e. someone not affiliated with FOTF or NARTH or something), and even the clearly biased estimates were around 2%. I haven't really kept track of the relevant data, but it's a bit suspicious to suddenly see such an outlier like that; even discounting the highly problematic Kinsey result, 4-5% seemed like a reasonable guess at the true incidence of GLBs. Of course, I've only seen studies in the US (or horribly biased internet polls). Maybe Britons just like the closet more than us in the US.
Measuring GLBTs is a subtle issue; GLBTs tend to be overrepresented in certain kinds of sexuality surveys, and underrepresented in others; self-selection bias is very strong. Then one has closeted or embarrassed or fearful people lying, differences in both total numbers and willingness to self-identify between gays and lesbians, and between both and bisexuals and all that sort of thing. There are some "I'm not gay, I just have sex with men." sorts who don't like the connotation of the term "gay" but would never date the opposite sex. Then there are the possible variations on "not straight". Where do you count asexuals, people who have sexual attractions but for whatever reason don't have sex, transsexuals, intersex people, people who are still questioning, and people who for political/philosophical reasons refuse to self-label? Is it appropriate to keep separate categories, merge certain categories into "GLB", or just leave these people out and calculate percentages from only those with a clear position on the Kinsey-scale? Taken all together, I would be surprised if these decisions weren't able to swing a percentage point or two (although one can always avoid such decisions by leaving only a few options on the survey and let self-labeling work it out). Anyway, Wikipedia gives a good impression of how baffling these numbers are.
A gay dating website claims to have more than 3 times as many dating profiles in the UK as there are gays according to that survey. I have no idea what percentage of those are potentially spammers or "extra" profiles, but it's mildly damning to the study if a lot of those are unique individuals (I doubt every gay/bi person in the country is signed up anyway). Of course, by announcing this, Gaydar gets free publicity. --Quantheory (talk) 02:34, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
There are exactly six homosexuals on Earth. But they are legion, and very active in promoting their agenda! ħumanUser talk:Human 03:04, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Only six? Damn, no wonder I can't find a new boyfriend. MDB (talk) 11:01, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Well, I think all the ONS set out to do was find the most representative number of people who identify as that's all you can really go on to create a thorough, official, figure. Once you start trying to estimate it on less stringent ("so you have sex with men but don't consider yourself gay? I'll tick the 'gay' box for you, then!") measures you run the risk of severely overestimating the figure. If you include everyone who is slightly bi-curious or had a homosexual encounter in the list, I wouldn't be surprised if you could inflate it to 50%. This would be interesting to see, but isn't really the stat we're looking for. Because of the fuzziness of the definitions, the ONS really had no choice but to ask about self-identity and try to compensate for the selection bias you get with other survey methods - internet polls and dating sites are definitely suspect (does anyone for a moment believe there are 500 million different people on Facebook?) and Kinsey may as well just have made it all up for all the rigour he had. The ONS method certainly put a risk of underestimating the figure - and we then have ~3% "don't know" to play with - but from a point of view of science their methodology is probably the most sound to not over-inflating it. Scarlet A.pngnarchist 09:21, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
The 3% includes "‘Don’t know’ or Refused the question". 'Refused the question' does not mean, to me at least, that they do not identify or are closeted or even that they are in any way gay. It means they refused the question.--AMassiveGay (talk) 11:06, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
I know, that's why I said we had 3% "to play with" in raising the figure to something in line with what other methodologies arrive at. I never implied we should do 1.5 + 3 to get ~5% and fudge it from there. I can imagine that there will be a small number who outright lie - although hopefully the huge sample size might limit the statistical damage that would do. Scarlet A.pngnarchist 13:26, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Brasseye/The Day Today

Right, these jolly programmes effectively showed TV news up years before Faux became as popular as it now is. Does anyone think there's an article in one or both of these shows, even if it/they're in Fun? If the answer's no, feel free to just talk about how awfully good they are, like most things Chris Morris touches.Webbtje (talk) 19:47, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

I would think that Brasseye deserves a mention somewhere, particular the episodes about paedophiles and drugs. They both had various celebraties being fed bullshit who regurgitated it verbatim. Is that sort of thing 'on message'?.--AMassiveGay (talk) 20:31, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
Brass Eye definitely. It's certainly on topic, especially some of the reactions to the Paedogeddon special. Scarlet A.pngnarchist 20:38, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

(For the second time today, I misread this section's title as "Brassiere". X( --ZooGuard (talk) 17:49, 5 October 2010 (UTC))

Damn them!

They suspended my favorite news broadcaster for 2 weeks. Damn, although it was definitely appropriate. i9 00:31, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

She turned Mike Castle into a newt! (He got better.)

Christine O'Donnell: I'm not a witch! Let's see you sink to the bottom of a lake first, Christine. Only way to be sure. Blue (is useful) 04:40, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

That ad creeps me out...must be the "I'm you" line. Röstigraben (talk) 08:30, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
She actually has to confirm that she's not a witch... Let's party like it's 1599! Scarlet A.pngnarchist 13:23, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
I am a bit sick of this whole witchcraft thing. Yeah, it was amusing for a little while, but it is in no way a real issue. Let's face it, if a Democratic candidate had said what she said and the right wing media started attacking her because of it we'd rightly say this was a silly thing she did as a teenager and is hardly relevant today. There are actually real legitimate reasons to oppose O'Donnell, but this isn't one. DickTurpis (talk) 13:43, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
Couldn't agree more, Mr.Turpis. It's too easy to let the conversation be driven by easy news media tags, and it always just serves as a distraction from the real issues. DogPMarmite Patrol 17:10, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

There'll be tears in Albania

Norman's dead! 10:49, 5 October 2010 (UTC) SusanG Toast

It is amazing to me that he managed to be still performing at such an advanced age. He was an almost permanent on the Royal Variety thing, and his was always a very physical act.--AMassiveGay (talk) 11:12, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
The BBC published a clip.  Lily Inspirate me. 19:32, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Is this true?

[2] 11:28, 5 October 2010 (UTC) SusanG Toast

If it's not, a number of national media organizations have been hoodwinked. MDB (talk) 11:31, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
Libertarians the world over are wearing a smug expression as we speak. ONE / TALK 13:21, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
I hardly think so. This is about the worst sort of PR libertarianism can get. DickTurpis (talk) 13:38, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
Erm, the guy knew the deal; either you pay up and get the service or you don't and you don't. He didn't and didn't. End of. (What's the alternative? A socialised secular communistic fire service paid from the tax-dollars of the hard working so immigrants and the lazy can sit on their asses getting their fires put out by big government?) PS. How common is this sort of thing in the States? (Having to pay for the fire service - although I think $75PA is quite cheap) DeltaStarSenior SysopSpeciationspeed! 13:48, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
My parents live in a different part of Tennessee, and I think they have to pay for fire protection. I think, but I'm not sure, though, that the local fire department, will put out fires for "uncovered" residents and just send you a bill. MDB (talk) 14:23, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
That's pretty messed up. I would have thought the fire service would take their wages out of tax money rather than a yearly fee. CrundyTalk nerdy to me 14:30, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
I have to pay a fee for emergency services in Australia. In the USA (and previously in Australia) it is part of the local government services paid by your property taxes. I wonder what the response would be if an elderly person or some little kids had burnt to death in the fire Hamster (talk) 14:32, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
There's a brief thread on this at talk WiGO:World. A link to an article there explains that the department will respond to save lives of people in danger whether or not the fee has been paid. My favorite part of the article is this: "He wouldn't talk to us and called police to have us escorted off the property. Police never came but firefighters quickly left the scene." Guess no one paid the $75 police fee either. DickTurpis (talk) 14:40, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
Is this really what the teabaggers no offence to those who like a nice cup of tea or a nice spot of testicular-based teabagging and right wingers want in the US? I describe my self as a socialist libertarian, and feel that emergency services are firmly in the socialist side. Do some people really object to taxes paying for emergency services? (What am I saying? - If they're opposed to healthcare then why not?) DeltaStarSenior SysopSpeciationspeed! 14:47, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
I think even most teabaggers would balk at privatizing fire departments. DickTurpis (talk) 14:50, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
Well, to a teabagger, it's only socialism if you're not benefiting from it.
I was on the DC Metro (subway) on the day of one of their rallies, and saw a few people I surmised were Tea Party members. If I was more of a troublemaker, I would have asked why they were using a socialist, government subsidized public transportation system, but I'm far more of a wuss than a troublemaker. MDB (talk) 15:21, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

terrible, exactly why I don't like a world were all public services are privatised, just so you don't have to pay taxes. while people who are too poor go without necessary services and protection I'm sure the Mayor is patting himself on the back for Following the Ideology of Ayn Rand.HKJGN (talk) 14:53, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

It just goes to show how ridiculous this scheme is. The guy doesn't pay, so when he calls the fire department won't turn out to save his home. The fire spreads to his house and grows to the point where it also sets his neighbour's house on fire, so the fire department have to turn out anyway. So, in the end not turning out to stop the fire when it was small actually ended up costing them the same amount, if not far more, and the original person lost their house and their pets. Genius scheme, isn't it? This is exactly the same deal with vaccination. The cost of not doing it is not just to you, despite what the tea party types may insist. If making everyone pay is socialism, then that's exactly what we need. --JeevesMkII The gentleman's gentleman at the other site 16:26, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
Isn't this part of what the idea of the social contract is all about? Everyone sacrifices a little because the community as a whole is much better off? MDB (talk) 16:47, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
"No man is an island, Entire of itself. Each is a piece of the continent, A part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less. As well as if a promontory were. As well as if a manner of thine own Or of thine friend's were. Each man's death diminishes me, For I am involved in mankind. Therefore, send not to know For whom the bell tolls, It tolls for thee." - John Donne
It's more than the individual, it's more than what they own or what they do. Democrats ignore the need for independence. Republicans ignore the need for the prosperity as a whole. Libertarians ignore the need of sympathy of the individual's plight. Aphoxema (talk) 18:20, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Worse than waiting to redeploy from a war zone...

Fallout: New Vegas is now officially less than two weeks away and my anticipation levels have officially exceeded what I remember feeling during the two weeks before I left Iraq for home. I know that I have problems when I am more excited about a game than I am about seeing my family for the first time in a year, but what am I to do? I am so stoked about this game and I simply can't wait any longer. Ahh, the perils of high nerdery. The Foxhole Atheist (talk) 15:15, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

I'll probably be playing that, once I finish Mass Effect 2. MDB (talk) 15:24, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Glen Beck

"It took a long time to end slavery; yes it did. But it also took a long time to start slavery, and it started small and it started with seemingly innocent ideas. And then a little court order here and a little court order there, and a little more regulation here and a little more regulation there, and before we knew it America had slavery. It didn't come over on a ship to begin with as an evil slave trade, the government began to regulate things because the people needed answers, they needed solutions. It started in a courtroom and then it went to the legislatures, that's how slavery began."[3] Fucking Hell! 15:23, 5 October 2010 (UTC) SusanG Toast

Beck is getting like CP -- sometimes, you really wonder if it's just a gigantic parody. MDB (talk) 15:27, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm voting Republican because...

MDB (talk) 15:37, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Funny, but still way below the belt. Tetronian you're clueless 16:55, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
Overlong, lame, dull. Shorter is always better. DogPMarmite Patrol 17:12, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, heavy-handed, a bit. I'd rather see a bunch of t-shirt slogans so I can ignore the lame ones. ħumanUser talk:Human 20:12, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Hi! I'm Julian and this is my friend Sandy

Can anybody (probably Brits) please point me in the direction of old Round the Horn recordings, or more specifically Julian & Sandy and their bona whatevers, I will love you a long, long time. --PsyGremlinSnakk! 17:25, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Try here for some. My favourite progs. 17:44, 5 October 2010 (UTC) SusanG Toast
Radioarchive.cc is your one stop shop for ye-olde radio. I got the complete ISIRTA (or as complete as still exists, anyway) from them a while back. Awesome. --JeevesMkII The gentleman's gentleman at the other site 18:36, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Gender roles

I would like to proudly attest that after a rather domesticated week last week, cooking tea every day (and doing some washing up), I can say that I'm feeling a bit more macho now. I've just replaced an electric window regulator in the missus's car (for those who have been ripped of for car repairs - the motor is an e46 Beemer, the part cost sixty quid and took me an hour to change it), and she's now in the kitchen cooking tea. That's more like it. DeltaStarSenior SysopSpeciationspeed! 17:38, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm in a house with 4 other guys, so whenever one of our girl mates comes over we always ask if they'd like to do any washing up. The other day one of them punched me after saying "no" for the 6th time. SJ Debaser 17:50, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Twenty years?

More like 40.  Lily Inspirate me. 19:40, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Let me get this straight. You brits had the internet back in 1967? This changes everything! --Oniontalk/edits 19:48, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Saltwater Aquariums

I'm thinking of getting a saltwater aquarium at some point after we move, but I've only kept freshwater and tropical fish before. Anyone here have any experience? I was under the impression they are a lot of hard work, but all the documents I've seen online say you can manage one with a moderate amount of attention. CrundyTalk nerdy to me 20:19, 5 October 2010 (UTC)