Debate:Dissecting Black separatism

This is a Debate page. Feel free to add your own spin on the story. Please keep it civil! This debate was created by SensaurC-137.

Proposition

I am hoping that this can get its own RW article one day, I want thoughts and discussion(from the black contributors here on RW in particular) on dissecting what is black separatism as well as the different categories it can fall under ranging from the good (such as dissension from a racist criminal justice system and wanting to establish your own judicial system in the U.S as well as having black economic empowerment and taking ethnic pride in establishing your own communities) to the bad in which is seperatism is born out of racial hate and bigotry and having contempt for other groups of people and is essentially a mirror image of white separatism that many white nationalists groups espouse. Groups such as Nation of Islam engages in the bad kind of separatism but have a sense of legitimacy among black people due to their status as one of the wealthiest religious organizations in the black community as well as constantly trying to “uplift” the black community by constantly advocating economic ownership, self reliance, and most importantly Independence from a society that has historically oppressed and marginalized black people. The Black Panther Party despite its controversy and reception did its best to practice the “good” kind of separatism and its legacy can still be seen today in groups such as Black Lives Matter. I feel this needs to be address as distinguishing between the two can be difficult and sometimes divisive in the black community.SensaurC-137 (talk) 01:46, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

Disclaimer, I'm not voicing support for black separatism, I neither condone nor endorse it, blah blah blah. So Black Separatism makes sense when viewed in contrast to White socio-cultural hegemony. said hegemony more less tells black people to either play the rigged game or fuck off. (I'm paraphrasing and oversimplifying a bit.) When viewed from that angle, it's not surprising that some black people are sorely tempted to take their ball and leave the table. ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 00:34, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

If a black person goes out of their way to avoid white people because they assume they will be racist, that’s racism. If they create areas where white people are not allowed in, in the US, that’s a crime and whoever does it could be sued for discrimination. Sievert 81 (talk) 00:53, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

I see that someone didn't read the disclaimer I put up specifically anticipating this sort of response from them... ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 01:04, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

I don’t understand why they would want to undo all the work of civil rights activists and restart segregation because they don’t like white people though... regardless of legality... Sievert 81 (talk) 01:09, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

Ok, step one to understanding is to take all those assumptions of yours and put them off to the side. Once you've done that, understand that this country has racism baked into its bones. The overarching socioeconomic system is racist on a passive level most felt by marginalized groups, in this case black people. Now, because this shit has been going on for literally hundreds of years, some people might get just a touch jaded and disillusioned with what little progress they've seen made being undercut, worked around, defanged, or outright rolled back. Hence they throw up their metaphorical hands and say "fuck this rigged game". ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 01:20, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

But no one is saying they can’t leave the country or move to a majority black area in the country. The issue is they think they speak for the entire black race and they can break the law and be racist to white people to “own the racists”. Sievert 81 (talk) 07:37, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

Basically, in their view A), they are civial rights groups and B) they think movements like BLM are too weak and too slow to get the job done. ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 01:25, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

While yes, some parts of my country *cough cough the South* are still trying very desperately to find loopholes in every new legislation/legal victory (indeed, in Georgia, one of the few things their Republican Party can agree on at this point is that they need to try to use tRump's conspiracy theories about election fraud as a false-flag operation to try and undo future Governor Stacey Abrams' legal victories against systemic racism that enabled Biden to carry its 16 electoral votes and both its Senate seats to be lost to a black man and a Jew), the idea that it's all being rolled back is simply ridiculous. The US has beyond reasonable doubt improved since the turn of the twentieth century, when white and black people couldn't even sit on the same parts of a fucking bus or go to the same parts of a beach in fucking Chicago of all places without violence and police brutality occurring. But yes, there is still lots of work that needs to be done, but more segregation, regardless of whether this separatism thing is legitimately "separate but equal" just isn't the solution- not because it would, as some have tried to suggest, "encourage anti-white racism", but because even actually-fair segregation could also hurt black people by perpetuating the "us versus them" mentality. (Not to mention the precendent it could set now that with the US becoming more and more diverse, "white" and "black" are now no longer the only two races that are relevant in US politics. I say this as an Indian-American who would not appreciate, say, being told that I cannot befriend or marry outside my own race because "it's for my own good to protect me from racism", especially given that my home state of Washington is a pretty white one- and therefore life would be pretty damn lonely for me.) --Goatspeed. _{All holidays matter}🎄CircularRasoning🎄^{My experiments} 01:37, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

Thank you ComradeGC and to expand on that “take the ball and go home point” some in the black community have taken that approach and end up associating with groups such as the Nation of Islam or the New Black Panther Party or any other black supremacy/seperatist group which as I stated before just espouse the mirror image of white separatism that many white nationalist groups espouse. I felt like this needed to be dicussed in order to make the distinction more defined and clear. I do not personally advocate for any kind of “black separatism” either but i do understand the feeling of jadedness that some in the black community have towards a racist system and wanting to dissent from it.SensaurC-137 (talk) 04:42, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

Exactly. I understand WHY they want to, it doesn’t work in practice and just makes all black people look racist. Sievert 81 (talk) 07:40, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

Because that is only a select few on the extreme end of the spectrum. Also, you cant lump in a group like Black Lives Matter who’s goal is to end police brutality with groups like the Nation of Islam or another Black supremacy group.They aren’t the same thing and do not even affiliate with one another.SensaurC-137 (talk) 14:19, 21 February 2021 (UTC)