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....not really. Not in the sense that the "New World" was "discovered." Africa was in the European consciousness going back to antiquity--it's just a quick jaunt across the Mediterranean, after all, and you can see the bloody thing from parts of Spain. Carthage was in Africa, don't forget, and Augustine was from there--the continent was part of the European world from early on. DeadHead 09:50, 26 November 2008 (EST)

I think that the implication refers more to sub-Saharan Africa (particularly the interior) than to the Mediterranean areas. With that, I think it was better the other way. --Edgerunner76Your views are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter 09:53, 26 November 2008 (EST)
Well, Northern Africa is still "Africa." And the first Portuguese explorers who went to sub-Saharan Africa weren't off on voyages of discovering new worlds--they were looking for something (Prester John) in a place that they already knew was there, and had for a real long time ("Ethiopia"--not *really* the country of the same name, but let's not quibble...)DeadHead 10:03, 26 November 2008 (EST)
Even that's wrong, because many classical texts describe the interior of Africa. Herodotus' "Histories", "The Periplus of the Erythrean Sea", the Carthaginian "Periplus", and Ptolemy's maps all venture into Sub-Saharan Africa, though sometimes with fanciful legends thrown in. Medieval Mali was also known to the Muslim World and Europe after Mansa Musa's hajj. I think this article could stand to be less Eurocentric in the first place... There's hardly anything about Africa before European colonization. -- (talk) 07:47, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
On the other hand, the hunt for the source of the Nile was genuine discovery, even though they'd known it was there for millenia, no one had ever actually found it to know what they were looking at. Wazza (Not Wazzock, Wazza)Approach the Presence 10:07, 26 November 2008 (EST)

Why not do precolonial history to debunk the idea that no civilizations existed in "sub saharan Africa" before that time?[edit]

People dont respond often but I will keep trying. prophetofreason 21:49, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

Its problematic to define "civilization" and outline its criteria. Can you tell me what a civilization is? There is no standard definition. Windir (talk) 22:25, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
Well thats a good question. I can't seem to understand the definition. It seems endlessly circular. Many of the attributes given fit the so called "tribal" societies well. prophetofreason 21:54, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

"Africa was better off under colonialism"[edit]

I need a succinct debunking of this racist shit. Because after the third "how dare you call me racist?!?!?" it gets old not having a single-source debunking. Anyone have a non-rationalwiki source? Ikanreed (talk) 20:08, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

I should follow up and say that pointing out mundane facts like human development index improvements and the increased protection of basic rights isn't what I'm looking for. Just a solid centralized take-down of a common racist talking point. Ikanreed (talk) 20:11, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
Why is that view necessarily _racist_? Some countries benefit from colonial rulers economically. I'd say for example that Europe would be less advanced without the Roman Empire.
Far less casualties since tribal warfare comes to a halt, fewer trade barriers and new technology coming in are valid talking points.
While it is true that not all of Africa was a snakepit before Europeans colonised it, putting blame mostly on Europeans exclusively ignores a few things:
  • Africa was only settled at the coast until ~ 1885. Diseases kept Europeans out of the way.
  • Some former colonies have grown much faster than Africa (Singapore is a great example, though its means are disputed).
  • No country is free of foreign influence and there are few borders in which the public had any say (i.e. not caused by warfare or some marriage). Some countries like Switzerland (less so Belgium) are doing fine with multiple ethnicities.
  • There still seem to be plenty of resources in Africa. Also, having lots of resources can actually halt development, the so-called Resource curse. (talk) 14:15, 20 June 2016 (UTC)
The actual answer was fairly complicated. Imperialism varied from place to place; Congo is impossible to argue improvement from colonialism. Other places, it's more nuanced.
Imagine if aliens from Gliese (higher chance of having life than Alpha Centauri) showed up. They bring with them the cures for cancer and AIDS. Gang wars stop, and maglev trains or whatever fancy equivalent are built. Pay increases for most people. Theres a catch though, several actually. The aliens control everything and you are forbidden from being involved in government. The lions share of the new wealth goes to the aliens. Many upper class people are kicked out of their homes for the alien industries to be built. As good as it may be for the lower classes compared to previously, it's practically illegal for them to move up. The new tech requires education which is forbidden for humans to learn. The aliens can commit crimes against humanity but get away Scott free. The most beautiful human women are taken by the aliens as mistresses. The luckiest humans are the ones who get work as servants for the aliens, even if that's a better job with more pay than before it's still humiliating.
Better to be the prince of hell...StickySock (talk) 14:46, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

Pointless listicle[edit]

What's the point of adding a pointless listicle of African animals to this article? While a section about African fauna could be useful, the list just provides information the reader is likely to already know. Plutocow (talk) 03:23, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

It's based on the list that Australia has, and it's for megafauna. People can add to it and expand it if they want. I'm currently adding species to the list. Rational Dude (talk) 03:25, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
It's not terribly interesting or missional. Australia shouldn't have such a list either. Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 03:31, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
The list has nothing to do with RW's mission. —cosmikdebris talk stalk 03:32, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
Then remove both lists and put them in a fun article or something. Rational Dude (talk) 03:33, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
Here's the other list: Rational Dude (talk) 03:37, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
That’s not a list. —cosmikdebris talk stalk 03:40, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
The that list tries to provide information beyond being, well, a list. And since Australia is better known for its unique wildlife it fits better there than here, even if the section still could use improvement. Plutocow (talk) 03:44, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
Then why not at least have a section mentioning how the megafauna of Africa is still intact (for now) compared to other continents? Rational Dude (talk) 11:51, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

African megafauna section[edit]

@Plutocow The "pointless listicle" I made was a start for expanding it. That being said, can we re-add it and make it bigger? Rational Dude (talk) 00:24, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Maybe you can work on it as a draft or a sandbox, but please do not add it back into the article. Plutocow (talk) 20:23, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
But shouldn't there at least be a detailed mention of how Africa still has megafauna? Rational Dude (talk) 20:53, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
Doesn't Asia still have megafauna as well under your definition? It's not enough to justify a listicle. Plutocow (talk) 20:58, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
Yes, but I want to make a section with images and descriptions for the fauna, since it does fit in the timeline of human history and disproving Noah's ark, which makes it missional. Rational Dude (talk) 21:08, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
Just work on it in your sandbox; if it becomes good enough for mainspace then we can discuss adding it here but for now you were told multiple times not to add a list of animals to this article. Plutocow (talk) 21:10, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
Okay. That's why I asked you first, and I clarified so we didn’t have misunderstandings. Rational Dude (talk) 21:17, 24 July 2023 (UTC)