Talk:Cross-dressing

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Larry Page

I couldn't find any info on Larry Page being a crossdresser but I did find Sergey Brin so I have replaced him for now. I was wondering if anyone had any info on the claim that Larry Page was a crossdresser?--Owlman (talk) (mail) 03:17, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Panto

Perhaps mention should be made of the UK Christmas entertainment, where it is traditional for certain roles to be cross-played (and perhaps also St Trinian's Headmistress Millicent Fritton). 82.44.143.26 (talk) 16:39, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

Do trans people crossdress?

According to Wikipedia, crossdressing is where one wears clothing attributed to the opposite sex. However, according to certain trans people I've talked to, trans people don't crossdress. They wear clothing that matches their gender identity. Is this correct?—(((CheeseburgerFace)))  (talk • stalk) 23:31, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

@CheeseburgerFace I would say the second answer is correct yes, given what I know about Trans individuals it wouldn't make much sense if one referred to a MtF transperson or FtM transperson wearing garb attributed to their true(?) gender as crossdressing. At least, that's how I see it. ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 00:47, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

@GrammarCommie According to the article:

"People may have various reasons to cross-dress, including alleviating gender dysphoria"

So this part should be changed.—(((CheeseburgerFace)))  (talk • stalk) 01:03, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

I would assume so, yes. ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 01:28, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

@BabyLuigiOnFire—(((CheeseburgerFace)))  (talk • stalk) 23:16, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

Some transpeople do, some transpeople don't. Also, the ping didn't work for some reason. БaбyЛuigiOнФire🚓^(T|C) 00:32, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

Nearly every trans person has had to crossdress at some point in their lives due to being raised as a different gender and/or living in a reactionary place (a trans man I knew was forced to wear a dress at a homeless shelter, as an adult and after transitioning), but it definitely doesn't alleviate dysphoria; it's the source of a lot of it. Cat A. Lonia (talk) 00:45, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

In any event, the language here could be better, but many trans people will initially describe themselves as crossdressing as they experiment with their gender. We've got the whole world telling us we're something we know we're not, and it can seem easier in the beginning to use the language least likely to lead to negative social consequences - a drag queen is far more acceptable than a trans woman in much of society, for example. After a while, though, we usually stop caring what other people think, and the language we use to describe ourselves changes. Cat A. Lonia (talk) 00:49, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

And on this last note, it is definitely worth keeping in mind that many self-identified crossdressers are trans people whose circumstances do not yet allow them to transition - maybe they live with family who isn't supportive, maybe they're underage, maybe they just aren't really in a position to accept the social consequences of transition. This is a nuance that gets lost even on a lot of the trans community. Cat A. Lonia (talk) 00:51, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

i do not believe many of the terms have been around long enough to have definitions so set in stone or with broad enough awareness that we can make any sweeping statements. as cat a lonia says 'nuance'. as an example i was going to make a statement about drag queens and trans women not really being comparable (one is more a performance art, i was going to say) but it occurred to me this not always the case. 'drag queen' as term has a loose definition, and its been around forever AMassiveGay (talk) 10:41, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

i am little curious about the statement that a trans man was forced to wear a dress at homeless shelter - generally speaking 'mens' clothing is unisex, and has been for some time. in what locale did this occur? AMassiveGay (talk) 10:47, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

South Carolina. Cat A. Lonia (talk) 12:28, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

FYI, homeless shelters tend to be run by churches and many of them have very different opinions on acceptable women's clothing. This is one of the cases where people with no experience with certain situations might miss things that are obvious to others. Cat A. Lonia (talk) 12:30, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

The original German term, Transsexualismus, was coined in the 1920s and is thus as old as the word "heterosexual," which people have no problem defining, and is older than many words that people feel very comfortable defining: neoliberalism (1930s), anarcho-capitalism (1950s), etc.. Cat A. Lonia (talk) 12:47, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

Not to mention Internet, web browser, search engine, snowclone, meme, milkshake duck, wiki, etc.. All much newer terms that people are very comfortable defining. Cat A. Lonia (talk) 12:52, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

i couldnt tell what neolibralism or anrcho-capitalism are to any useful degree (not to mention the bewildering amount of variations.) the other terms are fairly clearcut unambiguous terms that are saturated all areas of life (snowclone and milkshake duck - ive sen before, but no idea and dont care what they are.) the terms being discussed here are not those. they are not steeped in the public consciousness. they are not unambiguous and the usage by people who use them to describe themselves has much variance. for those who these terms are just not their radar, when they appear they are steeped in ambiguity and controversy, peppered with false and misleading information. the very fact this whole section exists on a website which i would expect to as fully versed in all of this as anyone, suggests these things are not clear cut AMassiveGay (talk) 15:13, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

An observation

The cross dressers are mainly chaps: is there a different perception of women wearing 'mannishly styled' clothes? Anna Livia (talk) 10:25, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

mens clothing is generally considered unisex. man drag is some what harder to spot, and i guess would need to be consciously aware of what you are doing. an indistinct yearning to wear trousers isnt immediately or necessarily an indication of something larger AMassiveGay (talk) 10:56, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

Depending on how involved it gets, cross-dressing for cis women often involves things like packers, breast binders, fake facial hair, etc., similar to how these are used in early transition for trans men (or even indefinitely for packers and breast binders, depending on what is available). Drag king has become a huge performance art in its own right. Cat A. Lonia (talk) 12:56, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

Panto/Pantomime

This is a UK Christmas amusement - in which certain characters are normally played by persons of the opposite gender - so the actors are, technically, not cross-dressing but wearing 'the proper costume for the part.' (The headmistress in the St Trinian's movies and similar roles may be part of the same tradition.)

And in opera there are 'breeches roles' and 'certain male characters which are *now* sung by women 'for another reason entirely.' Anna Livia (talk) 17:07, 5 June 2023 (UTC)