Talk:Cross-dressing

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Topic[edit]

I'm not an expert on these subjects, just an interested layperson, and any mistakes are honest and well-intentioned. --jtltalk 01:12, 4 July 2007 (CDT)

From what I understand: TV's (generally) aren't trying to "pass", they don't care what they look like to others, (most TVism) goes on behind closed doors). It is the inner satisfaction they get from wearing the clothes not the outer praise (nor condemnation) from others that drives them.
Gay men who like to dress up are considered drag queens. If they are in a place that has a thriving gay community they are able to share expertise and knowledge; they are also more likely to go out in public.
Drag queens are an "animal" unto themselves; stereotypically bitchy and controlling...but many see this as part of the role not the actual personality of the participants. Do not get into a fight with a drag queen. You'll be fighting not only that particular person but all the drag queens in the immediate vicinity. ~~ CЯacke® 10:52, 4 July 2007 (CDT)


Well, as mentioned in the forum, "transvestite" is a bit of an old-fashioned term these days. The current terms are generally "crossdresser" for those doing it for personal, non-transition purposes, and "drag queen" which covers those doing it as performance. To be fair, there's also "drag king" (which I've actually performed as, under the name Elwin Yaover) which have become staples of queer burlesques and the like. Since females dressing in male clothes hasn't been a taboo in a long, long time, there's not as much of an analogue for crossdressers, although there's a growing genderqueer movement that tosses gender conventions out the window, clothes included.

Not all crossdressers do it for sexual purposes, of course. While a good many do, there are some who do it for either suppressed transsexual reasons, or for a desire to have more of a female experience than simply putting on the clothes. The latter would look to "pass" in the same way a transitioning transsexual would, and some are very good at it. Take a look at Charles Anders for instance, and you get a good feel for just how slippery gender presentation can get.

Oh, and I should add that unlike transsexuals and some sorts of genderqueer presentations, crossdressers and drag queens do not generally identify as anything but their biological sex. Indeed, especially with drag queens, that's sort of the point. --Kels 15:32, 4 July 2007 (CDT)

In a surprising twist I saw a female drag queen on the TV a few months ago. That would be a women dressing up as a man pretending to be a woman.--Bobbing up 17:48, 31 August 2008 (EDT)
Hehe, and then there would be any historical performance of Merchant of Venice... the other way around. ħumanUser talk:Human 18:11, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

Best to prefer "crossdresser" over "transvestite"[edit]

Just for general reference: Crossdresser is the best term to use; using the term transvestite is not really the done thing these days. It's not precisely offensive (at least not yet -- thanks to the sex industry's fetishization of male-to-female crossdressing, it's gradually moving toward sharing territory with terms like shemale), but it does mark the user as painfully out of touch, and uninformed if not actually ignorant.

Imagine that you're having a discussion about evolution; the other person endorses some form of Lamarckianism, and you can't help it -- your perception of the other person's knowledge of the subject, and credibility in that particular domain, drops. Using transvestite in a crossdresser's presence has a similar effect.

It might not be a bad move to move this article to Crossdressing and shift the redirects accordingly.

curious. In the circles I move in, 'TV' is the preferred term. That or 'T girl' AMassiveGay (talk) 12:25, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

The Lumberjack Song[edit]

Should get a mention here (if someone can put in the linkages properly). 171.33.222.26 (talk) 14:39, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

The joke with that wasn't that he was a crossdresser, but that he was the exact opposite of the "Rugged Burly Man" that people think of when they think of lumberjacks. I should know, I have a number of lumberjacks as friends and only a few of them are transvestites. CorruptUser (talk) 21:26, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Larry Page[edit]

I couldn't find any info on Larry Page being a crossdresser but I did find Sergey Brin so I have replaced him for now. I was wondering if anyone had any info on the claim that Larry Page was a crossdresser?--Owlman (talk) (mail) 03:17, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Panto[edit]

Perhaps mention should be made of the UK Christmas entertainment, where it is traditional for certain roles to be cross-played (and perhaps also St Trinian's Headmistress Millicent Fritton). 82.44.143.26 (talk) 16:39, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

Do trans people crossdress?[edit]

According to Wikipedia, crossdressing is where one wears clothing attributed to the opposite sex. However, according to certain trans people I've talked to, trans people don't crossdress. They wear clothing that matches their gender identity. Is this correct?—€h33s3βurg3rF@€3 Spinning-Burger.gif (talkstalk) 23:31, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

@CheeseburgerFace I would say the second answer is correct yes, given what I know about Trans individuals it wouldn't make much sense if one referred to a MtF transperson or FtM transperson wearing garb attributed to their true(?) gender as crossdressing. At least, that's how I see it. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 00:47, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
@GrammarCommie According to the article:
"People may have various reasons to cross-dress, including alleviating gender dysphoria"
So this part should be changed.—€h33s3βurg3rF@€3 Spinning-Burger.gif (talkstalk) 01:03, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
I would assume so, yes. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 01:28, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
@BabyLuigiOnFire€h33s3βurg3rF@€3 Spinning-Burger.gif (talkstalk) 23:16, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
Some transpeople do, some transpeople don't. Also, the ping didn't work for some reason. БaбyЛuigiOнФire(T|C) 00:32, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
Nearly every trans person has had to crossdress at some point in their lives due to being raised as a different gender and/or living in a reactionary place (a trans man I knew was forced to wear a dress at a homeless shelter, as an adult and after transitioning), but it definitely doesn't alleviate dysphoria; it's the source of a lot of it. Cat A. Lonia (talk) 00:45, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
In any event, the language here could be better, but many trans people will initially describe themselves as crossdressing as they experiment with their gender. We've got the whole world telling us we're something we know we're not, and it can seem easier in the beginning to use the language least likely to lead to negative social consequences - a drag queen is far more acceptable than a trans woman in much of society, for example. After a while, though, we usually stop caring what other people think, and the language we use to describe ourselves changes. Cat A. Lonia (talk) 00:49, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
And on this last note, it is definitely worth keeping in mind that many self-identified crossdressers are trans people whose circumstances do not yet allow them to transition - maybe they live with family who isn't supportive, maybe they're underage, maybe they just aren't really in a position to accept the social consequences of transition. This is a nuance that gets lost even on a lot of the trans community. Cat A. Lonia (talk) 00:51, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
i do not believe many of the terms have been around long enough to have definitions so set in stone or with broad enough awareness that we can make any sweeping statements. as cat a lonia says 'nuance'. as an example i was going to make a statement about drag queens and trans women not really being comparable (one is more a performance art, i was going to say) but it occurred to me this not always the case. 'drag queen' as term has a loose definition, and its been around forever AMassiveGay (talk) 10:41, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
i am little curious about the statement that a trans man was forced to wear a dress at homeless shelter - generally speaking 'mens' clothing is unisex, and has been for some time. in what locale did this occur? AMassiveGay (talk) 10:47, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
South Carolina. Cat A. Lonia (talk) 12:28, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
FYI, homeless shelters tend to be run by churches and many of them have very different opinions on acceptable women's clothing. This is one of the cases where people with no experience with certain situations might miss things that are obvious to others. Cat A. Lonia (talk) 12:30, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
The original German term, Transsexualismus, was coined in the 1920s and is thus as old as the word "heterosexual," which people have no problem defining, and is older than many words that people feel very comfortable defining: neoliberalism (1930s), anarcho-capitalism (1950s), etc.. Cat A. Lonia (talk) 12:47, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
Not to mention Internet, web browser, search engine, snowclone, meme, milkshake duck, wiki, etc.. All much newer terms that people are very comfortable defining. Cat A. Lonia (talk) 12:52, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
i couldnt tell what neolibralism or anrcho-capitalism are to any useful degree (not to mention the bewildering amount of variations.) the other terms are fairly clearcut unambiguous terms that are saturated all areas of life (snowclone and milkshake duck - ive sen before, but no idea and dont care what they are.) the terms being discussed here are not those. they are not steeped in the public consciousness. they are not unambiguous and the usage by people who use them to describe themselves has much variance. for those who these terms are just not their radar, when they appear they are steeped in ambiguity and controversy, peppered with false and misleading information. the very fact this whole section exists on a website which i would expect to as fully versed in all of this as anyone, suggests these things are not clear cut AMassiveGay (talk) 15:13, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

An observation[edit]

The cross dressers are mainly chaps: is there a different perception of women wearing 'mannishly styled' clothes? Anna Livia (talk) 10:25, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

mens clothing is generally considered unisex. man drag is some what harder to spot, and i guess would need to be consciously aware of what you are doing. an indistinct yearning to wear trousers isnt immediately or necessarily an indication of something larger AMassiveGay (talk) 10:56, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
Depending on how involved it gets, cross-dressing for cis women often involves things like packers, breast binders, fake facial hair, etc., similar to how these are used in early transition for trans men (or even indefinitely for packers and breast binders, depending on what is available). Drag king has become a huge performance art in its own right. Cat A. Lonia (talk) 12:56, 30 March 2018 (UTC)