Talk:Heavy metal

	This Music related article has been awarded BRONZE status for quality. It's getting there, but could be better with improvement. See RationalWiki:Article rating for more information.

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Genres

I think that this article needs to have a section which mentions the basic sub-genres and what they are. I mean, I'm a metalhead, so I can understand everything, but for a non-metalhead, it would be somewhat confusing to see "funeral doom" and "thrash" and "death" and stuff everywhere. Anyone agree? Messiah of Doom- Unite with thy Oracle 21:36, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

Maybe we should just trust that potential readers can google or wikipedia the sub-genres for themselves. I think a listing and explanation of the mentioned sub-genres that goes into enough detail so as to not be crappy or useless would bloat the article too much. I will see what others have to say on this, though. Right now I think it's unnecessary. Nullahnung (talk) 21:41, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

We were actually hoping to avoid the genre wars that go on in other parts (see the "Heavy Metal on Wikipedia" section for why). Sophie^Wilder 21:43, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, good point. I wasn't really thinking of going into the "post-neoclassical progressive blackened technical crossover gothic death thrash" stuff, I was just thinking of the big sub genres. But yeah, I guess that it could start genre wars, and you'd, of course, then get the "tr00 m3t4l \/\/4rr10rzz" going and saying "this genre isn't true metal! That genre isn't true metal!", as the article describes at Metal-Archives. Meh, I'll think about it. Messiah of Doom- Unite with thy Oracle 21:33, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

Vaguely relevant

As it has been transferred to TV will mention Agatha Christie's Pale Horse - one of the few works of fiction which has actually saved lives. Anna Livia (talk) 10:33, 14 February 2020 (UTC)

What's in a name? Just Chemistry?

The last section attributes the name "heavy metal" to the heavy metal category of elements? Huh? What? That's unattributed and, my opinion, silly.

My understanding is that the term "Heavy Metal" as a rock music genra comes from the lyrics to Steppenwolf's song "Born to be Wild":

I like smoke and lightning, heavy metal thunder,
Riding with the wind, and the feeling that I'm under

Heavy metal was (is?) a term originally descriptive of a style of motor cycle - like those featured in Easy Rider. Steppenwolf was an early innovator in "acid rock", "hard rock" and "heavy metal" - genres that grew up together and are sometimes indistinguishable.^{— Unsigned, by: 71.121.167.107 / talk / contribs}

Its a chemistry joke. I don't know why its there either. ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 19:14, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

From Googling, it seems like the actual origin of the phrase "heavy metal" is murky. (There's Steppenwolf, of course, but some people attribute the origin of the phrase to the "heavy metal kid" in a couple of William S. Burroughs stories.) PanGalacticGargleBlaster (talk) 22:04, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

Promoted

I promoted the article because it is somewhat short and only has 13 refs. It can be demoted to bronze again if improved. --Andrew5 (talk) 16:55, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

It's been over a year, but this is horseshit reasoning. Our article standards on what constitutes bronze is not specific about length (just that it's not too short) and it says absolutely nothing about the literal count of refs. Find something else to promote an article (you could waffle on how the article had cut down before the promotion, maybe, but that's still not sufficient), not this. And please actually review our policies so hopefully another sysop won't have to correct you on your constant bullshit, even bullshit a few years ago. --It's-a me, 🎄LeftyGreenMario!🎄 18:45, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

I don't know any conservatives who are scared by metal

In fact, there is a Christian metal subgenre. 2003:C3:3725:3000:1D3C:582:E055:43CD (talk) 12:28, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Perhaps you don't know personally any conservatives who are scared by metal music (also you're conflating Christian beliefs with conservatism, they aren't synonymous; you can have socialist Christians), but this is anecdote. Otherwise it is certainly well-documented that there are entire organizations with conservative viewpoints and goals (Parents Music Resource Center) that have tried to spread moral panic and negative media coverage about the rise of metal music.[1] Books were written about this.[2] It's also written right in our article, particularly the "satanism" section where accusations were met with responses (Wikipedia has its own responses list to Parents Music Resource Center containing several metal bands)[3], with sufficient implications these accusations were prominent enough. Our opening quote is from a well-known Christian author, Ray Comfort. This is in spite of bands having Christian players and having lyrics about warning people about the devil (rather than advocating devil worship). --It's-a me, 🎄LeftyGreenMario!🎄 19:20, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

I'm going to guess that the BoN is pretty young. The moral panic on heavy metal -- which yes, "Christian" figures were quite involved in -- peaked around the 1980s (it correlated quite extensively with the satanic panic), and subsequently declined since then. Heavy metal is both old hat, and also quite a bit more niche, no longer regularly charting. Which means many of those type of conservatives (not the type that would be cool with metal, but the type that throw the Moralz Panics!! at things they don't understand) actually probably couldn't name a modern metal band, so of course they wouldn't be scared of it. The Moralz Panics!! seem to have shifted their musical focus, from what I can tell, to hip-hop, sort of (see Lil Nas X, Cardi B vs. Ben Shapiro), and since this hasn't worked as well as the new moral panic of The Scary Trans, they probably won't even use that much.BobJohnson (talk) 23:47, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Are the "arguments" that were used by anti-metal "activists" similar to the ones used by sufferers of Trans Derangement Syndrome? To me the crap spewed against trans people is more reminiscent of old homophobic canards than anti-metal crap. Vee (talk) 01:06, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

No, the anti-heavy metal arguments really were linked to the satanic panic, so it was more bullshit loosely connecting supposed crimes, supposed rituals, Satan, and whatnot that was spuriously linked to the music. Perhaps this oldie sensationalism from the "trash talk TV" days (Geraldo Rivera in this case) or this Jack Chick tract demonstrates some of the stuff going on then. Sure, there's a little bit of the "sinner" canard that's also present in homophobia / transphobia, but else wise it's not terribly similar. At any rate, a big difference as well is the reaction: a lot of heavy metal lapped that Satan shit up; pentagrams and Satanic / cult themes were big in 1980s metal, even sneaking a little into some of the poppy / glam stuff, probably in part as a reaction to the panic. (Though, I think heavy metal was equally inspired by the slasher horror and sword-and-steroids fantasy genres that also were pretty big in the 1980s, so it wasn't a big stretch to add some Satan oogie-boogie.)

There really isn't a great comparison between the metal moral panic and anything else today, IMHO. The last major music moral panic I can remember was an either/or between Columbine (scary Marilyn Manson and industrial rock!) and raves (drugs and bleeps and bloops!), both late 1990s-early 2000s. Maybe I'm forgetting something, but it seems like that type of outrage is outdated; if people rant and rave over something in entertainment, it's probably crap about diversity and "woke" in media, which also is old hat (the term was called "politically correct" in the 1990s). Even video game moral panics seem to not be happening as much these days. That being said, QAnon definitely has some elements of where this line of thinking went. BobJohnson (talk) 01:44, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

EC they are very different beasts. i believe the point being made was that as moral panic goes, trans hate has more mileage for professional opinion havers than musical genres, not that they are the same kind of thing, because they are not. the whole 'music is corrupting our youth' bullshit has always been patently ridiculous. self defeating too, since shock and outrage are marketable for the record labels. and since musical tastes are ever changing, its pretty self limiting, lasting only till the 'next big thing' comes along. if that. the racial overtones make some of the anti hip hop nonsense more troubling, but hip hop is main stream these days - its going no where. the transphobic stuff is another thing entirely. for one, its targetting trans people directly as being the 'problem', attacking who they are at a fundamental level, attacking their right to exist. its not at all like attacking a musical genre or its proponents, especially for genres where shock value is the selling point. and the thing with moral panics is that they always blow over. the moral panic aspect is only a part of transphobia. the bigotry behind it doesnt just blow over. that bigotry lingers. its persistent. its reliable. professional fucknuts are going to be paying the rent with far longer than bitching about what kids are listening to these days ever could. AMassiveGay (talk) 02:54, 3 January 2023 (UTC)