Talk:Holodomor/Archive1

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"But I thought this was supposed to be RATIONALwiki!"

Well this article is a quiet hilarious addition to a "rational" wiki, might as well visit conservapedia if this is the accepted standard... ^{— Unsigned, by: 137.205.6.135 / talk / contribs}

Well, it's a wiki. Feel free to edit (but don't be surprised if your edits are re-edited). 18:00, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Wait, did someone put rational in ironic quotes? Drink, everyone! Blue (is useful) 18:15, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

@BoN: in common with many (I suspect) I'd never heard of the Holdomor before noticing your comment at the top. Any additional information from those who know more about it would be welcome, I'm sure. 21:25, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

As a moderate communist/socialist, I think that this is the worst thing that ever happened in the history of communism. The Stalinists are leftfascist assholes who, if I had a choice, would eradicate from the face of the planet. They are a blemish and a betrayal to Marx's writings. Winttrix and Freinds 06:33, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Inclusion in the Government Incompetence category

I originally put this article in that category because as utterly horrific as the outcome is, it is a classic example of government messing things up through sheer stupidity and/or blinkered ideology. Then again, 1.) This assumes that you don't buy into the conspiracy theory that this was actually intentional (and considering that Stalin turned his back on Armenia for no reason other than sheer racism is very plausible), which while even more monstrous doesn't make it incompetence per se. 2.) The scale of this atrocity might be a bit too dissonant with the rest of the category. I think the only thing that comes even close is the WWII Japanese-American Internment and it's still a couple of magnitudes worse. --Dr. Swordopolis (talk) 19:52, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Did you read the article? Тy^rannis 21:46, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes. What about it? I don't think that there's any consensus on whether it was purposely engineered (and this disqualifying the article from that category) or just a tragic outcome of Stalinist stupidity. I don't take a strong stand on either position as either motive is perfectly in-character with Stalinist/Maoist communist philosophies of governing but if it's the latter, though, why wouldn't this just be government incompetence? A tragic and horrifying example of it, to be sure, but fundamentally no different than the Iraq War or Mugabe's price controls. --Dr. Swordopolis (talk) 22:18, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

rabid anti-communism

This report on the Stalinist-period famine is dripping in rancid anti-communism. While there is no disputing the profound tragedy of this famine, it bears no resemblance to the Holocaust other than that a great many people died. The Holocaust was a concerted, government led effort to eliminate particular ethnic populations grounded in a moral argument for racial superiority. It was deliberately planned. The Stalinist-period famine was in no way or measure an intentional process of killing, deliberately focused on a few populations and motivated by racism and eugenics.

And while we're at it, why isn't Winston Churchill and the governing apparatus of colonial India similarly excoriated and tarnished over the, in their case, deliberate deaths of 4 million people in the Bengali famine of 1943? You people are just tools of the Western status quo, blindly repeating anti-communist propaganda with unsubstantiated comparisons and conspiracy theories about Marxism, all the while refusing to critique capitalism on the same terms.

````Daryl O., Denver, CO, USA <sup>— Unsigned, by: Darylo / talk / contribs</sup>

Pretty sure our Winston Churchill article does exactly what you say it doesn't, comrade. Update: Turns out we also have this. Why don't you be quiet for a while while the grown-ups talk, since you apparently haven't done the assigned readings this week. Let my inspiration flow/In token lines suggesting rhythm. 14:48, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

(EC) You could try reading the article about Winston Churchill, which covers Churchill's Bigotry and various fuck-ups. --TheLateGatsby (The end of the dock ) 14:53, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Additionally, if you were trying to fix a car and thought "you know, smacking the starter with a hammer might work", but instead you broke the starter when it was fine, that's a fuck up. Shit happens, no worries, just don't do it again. But if you then immediately went to another car and smacked the starter with a hammer, we're moving past you not knowing what you're doing, now I think its on purpose. And Holodomor lasted for two years while the Soviets were exporting food from the Ukraine region and not bothering to bring in food. And infact "Holodomor" is a Ukrainian phrase that means "Extermination by hunger". And lets not even get into the fact that the modern Ukrainian government and a lot of historians are pretty much positive that Holodomor was intentional.--Token Conservative (talk) 17:36, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

"Hardly a genocide of Ukranians"

The word is what the Ukranians use to describe their experience--the fact that other peoples experienced similar things at the same time shouldn't be used to undermine the particularities of the term. Peace. AgingHippie (talk) 18:14, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

2-10 million is a bad casualty estimate

according to the regular wikipedia article, 3.2 to 4 million seems to be a lot more accurate and was based on actual data and not speculations, an 8 million margin of error is really bad. --Eletromoiu (talk) 01:45, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

Famine Section Lacks Citations

Someone should probably prop up the famine section with a citation or three. The section seems to lack any <sup>— Unsigned, by: Tha comment / talk / contribs</sup>

wp:WP:SOFIXIT EK (talk) 12:00, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

Richard spencer

super pleased this article takes the time to tell me what a neo nazi no mark think of holodomor. i would have up all night worrying he thought otherwise. AMassiveGay (talk) 20:30, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

It doesn't seem to randomly ask Richard Spencer for his hot take but seem to say there's disagreement among Nazis if the Holodomor did happen. I can imagine we can try to point out a hole in their logic in terms of what genocides they can conveniently deny, but it might be just poorly conveyed. --It's-a me, 🎄LeftyGreenMario!🎄 20:34, 27 July 2020 (UTC)