Talk:Krokodil

Is it just me or does this sound a bit like jenkem? Nebuchadnezzar (talk) 17:03, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

It sounds more like crystal meth to me. Cooked up from various drugs and chemicals in some guy's bathtub....B♭maj7 (talk) Member of the Kara Duhe fan club since 2010 17:09, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Not the drug itself, but the fact that most of the info is only known from police reports. Nebuchadnezzar (talk) 17:11, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

According to this Independent article, there's photographic evidence as well ("Photographs of late-stage krokodil addicts are disturbing in the extreme. Flesh goes grey and peels away to leave bones exposed. People literally rot to death"). I... think I'll take their word for it, but if anybody wants to verify this for themselves they're welcome... Balaam (talk) 17:16, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

The real question, why would you willingly take a drug that you know will end up killing your sad pathetic life in a short time frame--Mikalosa (talk) 18:24, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Most of the users are *homeless* in *Russia* and usually have grotesque histories of trauma. You can get a rough idea from reading this story about a girl born and raised in a literal garbage dump, or this article about Romanian orphanages, the world's greatest natural experiment with extreme child abuse (heck of a job, pro-lifers!). Many use krokodil because they think death, even slowly rotting from the inside out, is less painful than their lives, and frankly it's often hard to argue with that. You can also thank vicious cults rehab programs that teach their victims they're totally worthless until they're 'clean' (and often even then). The Russian government does everything it can to eliminate evidence-based treatment programs, partly because of a moralistic belief these people deserve to suffer and partly because the government is getting kickbacks from the dealers. The brainwashing on top of the already intense stigma and isolation breaks people until even they believe they don't deserve any better. --Inez.mond (talk) 17:04, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Either people don't believe it, get hooked before they know the truth or believe that they are somehow immune. There are countless examples of self-destructive behaviour where you think 'how could people be so stupid'. Генгис^evolving 18:43, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

i could not find a good source , only various newspaper reports and a few blogs. If anyone can find a good source that would be excellent. There seem to be some articles that are not in english , so I couldnt read those, anyone speak russian ? Hamster (talk) 19:03, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

The Russianalwiki guy could prolly help you out with that. B♭maj7 (talk) Member of the Kara Duhe fan club since 2010 19:06, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

What kind of "good source" are you looking for, that isn't a newspaper article? I've linked to a blog that contains some photos; I found videos too but I could only watch a few seconds as it was just too upsetting. ₩€₳$€£ΘĪÐ^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 20:29, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

While this article is somewhat interesting - which of our missions does it fulfil?--Bob^{Spring is sprung!} 07:49, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps that question should be addressed at all of Category:Drugs rather than just krok. Генгис^evolving 09:12, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Indeed. Unless there is some pseudoscience or whatever involved then I can't see the point of them. There is an authoritarianism angle obviously, but I can't see it in this case.--Bob^{Spring is sprung!} 10:36, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

You should NOT be using Bild as a source.

It's a far-right/fascist German tabloid magazine filled with nothing but lies and junk science. ^{— Unsigned, by: 174.130.201.114‎ / talk / contribs}

Mythology

The "gangrene" is not caused by Krokodil itself. It is caused by injecting particulate matter, which clogs the capillary blood vessels in the extremities. Reporting on Krokodil has all the hallmarks of a moral panic. --Tweenk (talk) 16:38, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure if the stuff was of sufficient purity to not cause those effects, it wouldn't be called Krokodil. EVDebs (talk) 20:04, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

Yep. Desomorphine, which was actually developed by Roche and prescribed until the 1980s, is not the same as Krokodil. --Inez.mond (talk) 17:10, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

As one of I'm sure extremely few skeptics who are IV heroin users (I'm stupid, I know, please don't give me a lecture I want to quit more than you could realize) reading the news reports of this krokodil made me both skeptical but also very nervous. This also goes to someone's question above about how does this further the mission statement. What made me skeptical of the news reports was the claim that the drug itself was causing the necrotic fasciitis. Now I have had my fair share of abscesses, but these were caused by the weakly pathogenic type of staph that's present on the skin being forced down under by the needle. These infections, while requiring vigilance in cleaning/care, do not lead to the kind of flesh-eating nightmares seen on the circulated pictures. I needed to know whether there was some highly pathogenic bacteria present in most of the manufactured stuff, or whether one of the chemical impurities from manufacture when injected were providing open access to opportunistic pathogenic bacteria present in the users environment. This talk page helped in that regard, and the page should hopefully be updated as new information is found. The degree of credulity circling around the discussion of drugs in the popular media (and amongst drug users themselves) is incredible, which is why rational wiki needs to address issues like this. -Laced 10/19/13 around 10pm PST

And if there is indeed some different highly pathogenic infection associated with it, whether or not it could be mistaken visually for heroin (black or white). I don't know about Russia, but as heroin is easy to get in the US no one that I know would use something that could produce such dramatic skin infections. Hanging out with the imbecile dealer and his friends earlier and all kinds of utterly ridiculous "information" were being thrown around. -Laced 10/19/13 around 1030pm PST

Just looking at the effects makes me wonder...=

Why the hell do people even use this crap?--TemplarJLS (talk) 19:59, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

addiction is a terrible thing. Especially so if you are poor. AMassiveGay (talk) 20:09, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

I meant in the first place. Like, why do people smoke for the first time, knowing the side effects, etc. ^{— Unsigned, by: TemplarJLS / talk / contribs (signed by bot)} 20:37, 06 October 2014 (UTC)

Maybe because people don't think about the long term consequences of sustained substance abuse when they're doing it for the first time? 142.124.55.236 (talk) 22:26, 28 September 42015 AQD (UTC)

Then after the first time comes another time and another. At first it seems an innocuous habit. They could quit at any time if they wanted to. But they don't quit; and the habit becomes an addiction. Once past that point, the substance abuse is no longer a means to an end but an end in and of itself. 142.124.55.236 (talk) 22:52, 28 September 42015 AQD (UTC)

Because addiction is a brain disease (i.e., not a choice) and because they are probably suicidal. As for the first time, they started with heroin. But access to heroin was limited after the fall of the Soviet Union, and so they used codeine to make a drug to feed their addiction. Snokw (talk) 10:30, 15 September 2017 (UTC)