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User talk:Jazzman831/Archive2

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Bored, is it?[edit]

Walk with me, my brother. There is much I can teach you... if it is in you to learn it. New3.pngPink(Astronomy Domine) 00:55, 24 September 2008 (EDT)

It's in me to consider it, at least :) JazzMan 00:57, 24 September 2008 (EDT)
But what is it you want to learn, Mr Help Mr Jazz Mr Man? New3.pngPink(Astronomy Domine) 01:07, 24 September 2008 (EDT)
Well right now I'm watching a show about potatoes. It'll be hard to top that. JazzMan 01:19, 24 September 2008 (EDT)
<stern>I don't think you're striking the right tone.</stern> New3.pngPink(Astronomy Domine) 01:28, 24 September 2008 (EDT)
Heh heh heh. The show is really interesting though! Now I'm learning about potato vodka. JazzMan 01:30, 24 September 2008 (EDT)
I'm offering to impart answers to the mysteries of the universe, here! Questions that have dogged your biped ancestors for uncounted centuries! You can learn about potatoes tomorrow :P New3.pngPink(Astronomy Domine) 01:35, 24 September 2008 (EDT)
I dunno, the potatoes were pretty interesting. But it's done now.
Ok, um.... why are hot dogs sold in packs of 8 and hot dog buns sold in packs of 6? JazzMan 01:43, 24 September 2008 (EDT)
There are some things man was not intended to know.
That'll be thirty bucks, please. New3.pngPink(Astronomy Domine) 01:47, 24 September 2008 (EDT)
LAME.
Oh, and Pink mowse Chaos! whoever you are, I can tell you where the Control Panel is in Vista: hit start, and it should be on the right, the 4th one up. Or other wise, you can type "control panel" into the search bar and hit enter. So the teacher has become the student! (That'll be 50 bucks please). JazzMan 01:52, 24 September 2008 (EDT)
The greatest thing I can teach you is how to teach others.
And that little beauty is going to cost you about sixty, I reckon. *evil grin* New3.pngPink(Astronomy Domine) 01:55, 24 September 2008 (EDT)
I'm feeling a little ripped off here. There was no mention of money when you offered to teach me, and now I owe you almost a hundred bucks. I didn't expect an RWer to be an evil capitalist. JazzMan 12:35, 24 September 2008 (EDT)

Hey Jazzman, what do you think of my contribution? There is nothing less conservative than jazz, did you know? Editor at CPOh, Finland! Why? 03:12, 24 September 2008 (EDT)

I likes. Louis Armstrong is one of my favorites; I have more songs by him than by any other artist. JazzMan 12:35, 24 September 2008 (EDT)

Bored again![edit]

You want me to teach you more mysteries of the universe, little Jazz person? New3.pngPink(Meep!) 23:46, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

No thanks, I learned my lesson last time! <grumbles something about highway robbery> JazzMan 23:47, 30 September 2008 (EDT)
Ah, go on. I won't charge you this time. New3.pngPink(Meep!) 23:51, 30 September 2008 (EDT)
I got distracted, sorry. At east it wasn't potatoes though. JazzMan 22:31, 1 October 2008 (EDT)

Sysopship[edit]

You are now a sysop. Use your powers wiselyish. There is a help file somewhere. - User For best results always render PNG 23:30, 9 October 2008 (EDT)

Wow that's... unexpected, to say the least. I wonder if it will last? (And I wonder if a certain someone on a certain other site will have a fit when he finds out...) JazzMan 23:40, 9 October 2008 (EDT)
That's okay, just keep up... what ever quality level you do of... um... work... you um... do... style, thing. - User For best results always render PNG 23:45, 9 October 2008 (EDT)
Heh heh heh. JazzMan 23:48, 9 October 2008 (EDT)
It's about damn time. I'm getting sick of the red exclamation points you leave behind. : ) Star of David.png Radioactive afikomen Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments. 01:23, 10 October 2008 (EDT)
Really? There are so many damn sysops I haven't seen one of those in ages. Nice, really. RationalWiki:Sysop guide is where the rtfm is. Perhaps. ħumanUser talk:Human 01:28, 10 October 2008 (EDT)
I didn't realize I was so messy! I'm glad I can stop leaving little poops around. JazzMan 01:59, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

Strongbad Email[edit]

I'm not talking shit about you- sorry if my syntax is on the fritz. CorryBaby, you got a stew going. 01:18, 5 November 2008 (EST)

I didn't think you were, I just had no idea what you were trying to say. Too many double negatives "don't bother changing, unless you have blocking, except Jazz" ;-) After reading your new post I think I get what you meant. JazzMan 01:21, 5 November 2008 (EST)
There's probably a pretty solid mathematical correlation between the number of negatives I don't not fail to un-use and how long I've been up watching the news. Weren't you an engineering major? Excel has some great linear regression tools. CorryBaby, you got a stew going. 01:35, 5 November 2008 (EST)

I'm yelling at you because you're the closest thing to a CP admin that I know.[edit]

For Christ's sake, tell Andy to fix his goddamn website. It's slow, and half the freakin' time all that loads up is a BLANK PAGE. It's bad enough that the site itself is completely dysfunctional-- it doesn't need to be unworkable, too.

Thanks. sorry to rant at you. PFoster 22:57, 9 November 2008 (EST)

On a (slightly) related note, what has happened to CPAdmin1 and HenryS. Have they disappeared from both here and there?--DamoHi 23:00, 9 November 2008 (EST)
I wish I knew why CP was so slow. Earlier when I was reverting the vandalism it was physically painful (as I alluded in an edit comment). It took me 6 minutes to undo 3 pages. I can't ask today (surprise, surprise, editing is off!) but I'll definitely see tomorrow.
Damo: both of those editors have a history of disappearing for long periods of time. Bohdan Henry popped in the other day, but didn't do much more than an edit or two. JazzMan 00:45, 10 November 2008 (EST)

TK[edit]

I'm glad TK is here to let me know what a shitty person you are. And here you had fooled me into thinking that you are a decent human being! CorryBaby, you got a stew going. 23:58, 16 November 2008 (EST)

I fucking well hope you're being sarcastic, or I will rip your lungs out. PFoster 00:03, 17 November 2008 (EST)
Easy! I am kidding. TK's said some pretty amazing things today, over categories, of all things. CorryBaby, you got a stew going. 00:06, 17 November 2008 (EST)
Sorry! Cheerfully withdrawn. Where TK is involved, tensions run high. Your lungs are safe....for now. PFoster 00:08, 17 November 2008 (EST)
Understandable. I've never seen this guy at work before, and he's a pro. If I ran a corporation I would pay him to get a job with my worst competitor. They'd tank within a month! CorryBaby, you got a stew going. 00:11, 17 November 2008 (EST)
Thanks, PFoster. I feel loved :)
And Corry, I figured you were being sarcastic, so no worries. But I'd watch out, PFoster didn't seem like he was being very jokey ;-) JazzMan 00:47, 17 November 2008 (EST)
The whole no body language/voice inflection part of typing can be a bit of a drag. CorryBaby, you got a stew going. 01:09, 17 November 2008 (EST)
Yeah, and using <sarcasm></sarcasm> takes all the fun out of it. JazzMan 01:12, 17 November 2008 (EST) <-- heh, not being sarcastic

HJ, it's time to go. Bugler + TK = an end to reasonable people like you and Philip. CP's been dying for a long time, but it just took a rapid turn for the worst.-caius (spy) 12:40, 17 November 2008 (EST)

The parodists I can deal with. The defense of a proven liar? It's a little harder to swallow. I need to wait for a couple of things to play out before I decide if I stay, so until then: "no comment". JazzMan 13:14, 17 November 2008 (EST)

hey uh helpjazz[edit]

"Clearly, they take the word over a proven liar (as you showed on the template talk page) over the word of someone who has lied, and who has only done good work for this site." - might be me, but I think there's an unpleasant type or two in there. 76.105.223.176 12:58, 17 November 2008 (EST)

Ugh. JazzMan 13:07, 17 November 2008 (EST)

My offer[edit]

I made you an offer a while ago. Have you considered it? - User 23:23, 17 November 2008 (EST)

I forgot / didn't read / didn't think you were serious. As I said to Ames, I'm waiting to decide what I will do (no more than ~pi days, interestingly enough). However, even if I leave, I don't see myself going out with a bang (not there, anyway), so I won't be able to fulfill your requirements. You can make me a beaurocrat anyway if you want. I won't complain :) JazzMan 23:45, 17 November 2008 (EST)

Jpatt/Bungler tagteam[edit]

Are these two:

  • Gay?
  • Socks of each other?
  • or just actually Aschafly himself on a proxyserver?

just curious!--MAstEr oF pUPetStalk! 00:24, 18 November 2008 (EST)

My best guess is none of the above. JazzMan 01:52, 18 November 2008 (EST)

Sorry[edit]

Sorry for all the crap you're going through, I usually run into the same issue. My socks come in, try to do some legit work on the project (I'm not too fond of parody) and run up against a sysop who pisses all over everything.... Would a Penguin make you feel any better? Thumb Ah, there you go. Penguin's make everything better SirChuckBI brake for Schukky 15:06, 18 November 2008 (EST)

Pengiuns make everyone feel better! Thanks. JazzMan 15:19, 18 November 2008 (EST)
Don't they though? SirChuckBI brake for Schukky 15:31, 18 November 2008 (EST)
Fully agreed with Sir Chuck there. It's horrible to see them ganging up on you like that. :( ...but that is an awesome penguin. --Sid 15:53, 18 November 2008 (EST)
I'm told I can give awesome massages. Ring me up sometime. :) remember when I asked "why bother editing on CP?"... the whole debacle going on, well, that's what I meant. The past repeats itself. AndyToad.gifNorsemanCyser Melomel 19:05, 18 November 2008 (EST)
I read "messages" the first time, and had no idea what you were talking about ;-)
You were right, when you said the past repeats itself; I've certainly been there long enough to know better. I just didn't expect that the repeat would be who it was. JazzMan 19:43, 18 November 2008 (EST)

Have you left?[edit]

Have you actually left Conservapedia? I was always curious how people like you (As in rational, reasonable and decent people) could be involved in a vehicle of hate like that website. MarcusCicero 19:10, 19 November 2008 (EST)

I haven't officially left, but I've blocked myself for a couple of days to see if anyone over there actually cares about the future of their site (and I'm waiting to see if a couple of other things happen as well). As to how I could stay there... I'm not entirely sure to tell you the truth, but I promise when I do quit (because let's face it, it's a "when" not an "if") I'll try to explain myself. JazzMan 19:15, 19 November 2008 (EST)
How did you associate with CP to begin with? Were you a student of Andy or just happen into it like most of the rest of us?--MAstEr oF pUPetStalk! 11:21, 20 November 2008 (EST)
Our class of chemical engineers was pretty closeknit, and we kept a lot of email chains going. Sometime last summer one of them heard about CP and sent an email about it to the rest of us, and the rest is history. JazzMan 13:36, 20 November 2008 (EST)
How did you keep from getting blocked/banned/abused in the beginning? Or were they not so psycho in the beginning days?--MAstEr oF pUPetStalk! 22:12, 20 November 2008 (EST)
Really, I don't think I've ever done anything to deserve getting blocked (even by CP's stretched standards). I followed the rules rather firmly, and didn't make much of a stink. I've had some disagreements from time to time, but more often than not I realized the futility and gave up. (I caught on early on that Andy wasn't exactly the bastion of logic).
However, I wouldn't say that I never got banned; ever wonder why my name there is different than my name here? Turns out, TK blocked me for no apparent reason (the rumor later was that I was blocked for sharing an IP with Steve Carson, the notorious bot vandal; rumor futher has it that stevecarson is the reason I never got a promotion), and then didn't respond to my emails in a timely fashion. Having been around long enough to know that users were bocked abusively, I created the account "HelpJazz" to, well, help Jazz. Then, through a series of confusions on TK's part, my first name was unblocked and my second name was never blocked.
Jump forward several months. An argument over an innocent addition to CP's liberalism article ends up getting be banned for life by Rob Smith when he finds out that I'm following along with the discussion about it here on RW. (You can read about it here, though due to liberal deceit some of the links don't work anymore).
Then, remembering my other username, I started editing some of the exact same topics I was working on before I left, mostly in defiance of Rob's completely baseless block. DanH and TK (and I think Bohdan, too) figured it out immediately, but promised not to say anything as long as I played nice. I played nice, and Andy gave me block rights within maybe a month. (TK claims that Andy though I just changed my name).
I guess that's about it. JazzMan 22:34, 20 November 2008 (EST) PS: I typed this at the same time as trying to watch CSI, so ignore anything that doesn't make sense. :)

Animal Rights Movement[edit]

And I thought I had gone a bit too far, haha. I like it a lot more the way you wrote it :-) --Arcan ¡ollǝɥ 15:26, 20 November 2008 (EST)

Heh, heh. I might have left it "most reasonable people", but you edit conflicted me and I thought what the heck. JazzMan 15:28, 20 November 2008 (EST)

Happy Conservapedia Day[edit]

I wish you the best luck in clinching the adminship. My gut tells me that your complete dearth of ass-kissing will hurt your chances, though. CorryBaby, you got a stew going. 17:52, 21 November 2008 (EST)

There's just so much I don't understand about people like you. Why would you want to be admin over there? I mean, what possible purpose would it serve?

It leads me to believe people like you just want some sort of power, no matter where it comes from. MarcusCicero 08:05, 22 November 2008 (EST)

(People like you? I'm not sure what you mean by that). I don't actually want to be a sysop on CP. The only thing I ever lobbied for was edit rights, but that wasn't so much "power" as it was convenience. I don't have the same bed time as Andy! But with all the mess going on over there and with such a lack of respect for sysops, I have no desire to throw myself into that. Sure, it would be absolutely great to move and delete pages myself, instead of begging other people to do it (I would move a butt-ton of subtle parody into the essay space), but actually using the responsibility that goes along with them? No thank you.
But let's face it: if I were made sysop, what would I be able to do? I couldn't stop Bugler, because he fights back. (I might be able to get some of his crap out of the mainspace, but I bet he could easily sway Ed or Andy to move it back; thus simultaneously improving Bugler's position while eroding mine). I couldn't stop TK, because he knows where the other sysops live, therefore they do whatever the heck he says. I couldn't stop Jpatt or any of the other parodists, because then it will just look like I'm going on a liberal rampage. So when it all comes down to it, I'd just be gaining advanced wikignome powers, but I'd be paying for them with more scrutiny, arguments, and annoyance. JazzMan 13:19, 22 November 2008 (EST)

Article For You[edit]

While his politics are much more in line with yours than mine, I figured a belated happy conservapedia day present of an interesting article might interest you: libertarian defense of social conservatism. You're the most honest (well, only honest) person on CP with block powers, best of luck. (If you've already read it, sorry for cluttering up your talk page.) Hactar 14:23, 23 November 2008 (EST)

Thanks Hactar, that was a really interesting read. I have heard of AmericanThinker, but I've never read much of it, maybe I should start. (It's too bad the comments weren't very good though, but that'll happen on the intertubes). JazzMan 17:10, 23 November 2008 (EST)

Unblock Me!!![edit]

Plz?-caius (spy) 22:34, 1 December 2008 (EST)

Unblock my IP!!! (pretty please?) PFoster 22:36, 1 December 2008 (EST)
I'm only bad because Carrot Juice thinks I'm mean. I'm not! See, I brung you some posies (@->---)-caius (spy) 22:40, 1 December 2008 (EST)

TK Convos[edit]

He's explained away significantly more. Odd little man.-caius (spy) 02:24, 3 December 2008 (EST)

The phrase "Mayberry Machiavelli" was made for guys like him. --Gulik 12:59, 3 December 2008 (EST)
I had forgotten about that. Though, in a roundabout way, I can kinda see how he managed to brush that under the rug: Hoji is just as guilty as TK in that conversation. So TK could (a) use the fact that Hoji had just quit in a flurry of temper when the convo came to light to push all blame onto him, and/or (b) simply claim that TK was playing Hoji in order to frame him (Hoji even indicates this at one point, and it's a vibe I often got from TK, so it's not a very unreasonable defence, really). The difference in my convo is that it's all TK. TK volunteered info about the SDG, TK volunteered his admition of parodying Andy, and TK volunteered his hypothesis that Andy is drunk most of the time. I didn't offer any more information or say much more than "uh huh, yes sir". That being said, however, I have no doubt that TK will weasle his way out of it anyway; the fact that he's already gotten away with what he's done publicly in the last couple weeks makes that abundantly clear. JazzMan 14:00, 3 December 2008 (EST) PS: "Jazz was pretty pissed off, almost convincing." What an ass. He says this behind my back, then to my face says "I have always supported you, I swear."
What ever happened to Hoji, anyway? --Gulik 15:17, 4 December 2008 (EST)

HelpJazz[edit]

I remember a Jazz-imposter on this wiki. Is this you or not? Clym Yeobright 14:43, 3 December 2008 (EST)

Nope, not me. (You can see the convos in my archives, I think). JazzMan 14:53, 3 December 2008 (EST)
So this isn't the real conservapedia JazzMan? Clym Yeobright 14:56, 3 December 2008 (EST)
No, it is. The names are backwards, is all. cp:User:Jazzman831 (permablocked) and cp:User:HelpJazz are me, but only User:Jazzman831 is me. User:HelpJazz is someone else. Confused yet? JazzMan 15:03, 3 December 2008 (EST) (See also here)
I remember sorting all of that out. Fun times. Pinto's5150 Talk 18:02, 3 December 2008 (EST)

Why[edit]

Why is Bugler such a prick and how is he allowed to get away with it?86.46.192.63 17:07, 9 December 2008 (EST)

I'm not Jazz, but the prevailing theory here on RW is that it's because he's very good at stroking Andy's ego and agreeing with his opinions. (The other prevailing theory is that he's a very, VERY good parodist.) --Gulik 17:36, 9 December 2008 (EST)
Probably both. Still kinda boggles the mind, though. JazzMan 13:45, 10 December 2008 (EST)
If he's a clever troll, then he's the nastiest piece of work I've come across, in a supposedly civil online-encyclopedia. I just feel sorry for the users he picks on, because the Shaftfly seems to think the sun shines out of his ass and never says a word. Then again Schlafly isn't the brightest bulb in the pack. Whoa, just realised my I.P. changed again. This pleases me.86.43.183.189 17:44, 10 December 2008 (EST)
Well, I'd say Bugler is deliberately trying to raise the Coulter Coefficient on CP to the point where it instantly repels any non-wingnut who reads it, and set it up to be a breeder reactor for ultra-conservative lunacy. Andy is doing the same thing, only UNintentionally, because he thinks he's right. --Gulik 18:31, 10 December 2008 (EST)
Unfortunately, while I find Coulter entertaining to read, I can't say the same about Bugler. Coulter at least elicits a chuckle every now and then. JazzMan 01:48, 11 December 2008 (EST)
She's good at "it", he's not? I shudder to think of what "it" is... ħumanUser talk:Human 02:17, 11 December 2008 (EST)
Bugler's only funny if you know he's pretending to believe what he says (and even then, only in an America's "Funniest" Home Videos kind of way -- people being seriously hurt or doing something to ruin their wedding day). I find Coulter to be funny regardless, in an "oh no you di'n't just tell a really racist joke that I feel bad about laughing at but I'm going to do it anyway because darnit if it wasn't funny" kind of way. JazzMan 02:27, 11 December 2008 (EST)

Something not guite right[edit]

Can't create an account on Conservapedia, the reason given?

"Only alphanumeric characters are allowed in user names on Conservapedia. The user name you have chosen contains characters that are not alphanumeric. Please choose another user name. Thanks! "

My attempted username? Willam F. Can you help me? I joined already but was insta-and-perma blocked because my username didn't have my real name and initial. I hope the I.p. isn't blocked.86.43.183.68 13:20, 11 December 2008 (EST)

(Answering for Jazz) It doesn't like the space between the two. Try WilliamF SirChuckBI brake for Schukky 13:22, 11 December 2008 (EST)
I haven't had a whole lot of experience with socking so I generally wouldn't be the best person to ask. The "." might cause a problem if the space doesn't fix it. JazzMan 13:33, 11 December 2008 (EST)
If you replace the space with a "_" underscore, then wiki will treat it as a space. Fortinbrass 13:46, 11 December 2008 (EST)

Memo to Ed Poor[edit]

Impressive, just impressive. Kudos... --LArron 16:39, 11 December 2008 (EST)

Just when I thought I was out... they pull me back in. JazzMan 16:43, 11 December 2008 (EST)
Looks like you'll have to defend yourself against TK. When no argument can be made, he resorts to name-calling and conspiracies. GL! *cuddles* :D AndyToad.gifNorsemanCyser Melomel 18:00, 11 December 2008 (EST)
TK is either a giant hypocrite or just a huge Dick, it's hard to discern which.... Come to think of it, probably both. He's a hypocritical dick. SirChuckBI brake for Schukky 18:01, 11 December 2008 (EST)
TK doesn't even make sense any more. His comment has nothing at all to do with what I wrote, and arguably isn't even about me. He's just interjecting pro-CP lies whenever he sees an opportunity to suck up a little bit. JazzMan 18:08, 11 December 2008 (EST) PS: What is Bugler talking about? "Someone that I always felt comfortable joshing with"? There was no joshing from his end, I can be fairly certain. JazzMan 18:08, 11 December 2008 (EST)
In other words, he's trying to say he was only playing around with you to look innocent. That's a good indication that he fears Ed might take action against him. As for TK, like I said, he can't say anything so he just attacks. AndyToad.gifNorsemanCyser Melomel 18:27, 11 December 2008 (EST)
I figured that's what Bugler meant. Ed'll probably believe him because it's easier than taking the right action. As for having to defend myself against TK... I wrote to Ed; as far as I'm concerned what Bugler and TK blabber on about, unless it's in direct contest or agreement with what I said, is part of a different conversation, one of which I'm not a part. JazzMan 18:32, 11 December 2008 (EST)
If I were you, I'd add more bullet points and include TK's attacks. "It is disheartening to read these liberal hate speech diatribes." is directed at you. I count... at least TWELVE *holds up ten fingers and thrusts his pelvis twice* ad homs against you in his response. He tops it off saying that if someone disagrees with him, don't believe in God. Lawl. It's too red hot - if I tried commenting I'd get my face blown off there. AndyToad.gifNorsemanCyser Melomel 19:00, 11 December 2008 (EST)
Well I know I won't win that fight. Last time I tried to say something factual about TK, Ed deleted it with a fraudulant reason. For now I'll stick with something that Ed specifically asked for, and play it from there. JazzMan 19:05, 11 December 2008 (EST)

Barnstar[edit]

Goat.jpg Barnstar
For your tireless contributions to RationalWiki, I award you this barnstar.

— Unsigned, by: Secret Santa / talk / contribs

Tireless? Contributions? You must be new :) JazzMan 23:29, 12 December 2008 (EST)
It's barngoat spam, be proud! --Kels 23:31, 12 December 2008 (EST)
I have to admit that's a wee bit strange. Spamming compliments? (Or at least, things that would pass for compliments around here). JazzMan 23:32, 12 December 2008 (EST)
Goats are the sincerest form of flattery. --Kels 23:34, 12 December 2008 (EST)

Ssshhh...[edit]

let us not feed the troll... Javasca₧ the most colourful sig on RationalWiki!

I've got "man" in my name, he probably won't be bothered by me :) JazzMan 20:35, 13 December 2008 (EST)

*kick*[edit]

Congratulations! Based upon your recent contributions, your attitude, and your helpfullness, you have been forced into slavery promoted as the Town Crier! now if you can figure out what that does, feel free to contact anyone here. Javasca₧ the most colourful sig on RationalWiki!

What the heck is that group, anyhow? I never got a user's manual. --Kels 20:52, 13 December 2008 (EST)
Oh no! I hope nobody tells TK! JazzMan 21:03, 13 December 2008 (EST) PS: Yeah, what is a town crier?
I just read every page on this site which includes the words "town crier" (there were like 8). I think that town crier doesn't actually do anything, but it was created to allow only certain people to use the intercom, since as written it could have been used to nasty effect. But I could be wrong. JazzMan 21:10, 13 December 2008 (EST)

Fall down talk[edit]

You were right to revert. I saw that he had deleted comments and changed the heading and I overreacted. I didn't even noticed he'd added a comment. Good catch, and thanks! --Arcan ¡ollǝɥ 22:32, 13 December 2008 (EST)

Kels did it to, but seeing what he said to her... I'll pretend I didn't notice. JazzMan 22:34, 13 December 2008 (EST)
Well, I put my own view on his talk page. His own reasons are childish and insufficient, and he's done obvious vandalism. I see no reason to give him the time of day. And that's aside from what he did on my page, TK's actually called me far worse. --Kels 22:35, 13 December 2008 (EST)
I don't agree, but meh. I'm outta here soon anyway. JazzMan 22:37, 13 December 2008 (EST)