User talk:Bicycle Wheel/WIGO RW 2012

You know this isn't a bad idea given that WIGOCP spurns a lot of the Conservapedia namespace content. Give that this whole site is dedicated to RationalWiki, it should spawn most of the sites content. 219.90.133.165 23:03, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

And now at least we can use the polls to guage the importance of certain events so that we don't end up with another "The Great Block War" incident. This might turn into the new discussion area for new pages. MrFish 23:14, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Not to mention the Therian Incident and Night Mode Incident, both an almost zero event. 192.43.227.18 01:03, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Hey, a WIGO at RW! alright! Refugee 04:22, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

I am imposing a temporary lift on the restriction on writing WIGOs about yourself, assuming they aren't self praising. This is to promote growth. --ConservapediaUndergroundResistor 21:47, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

A plan

Right. This shouldn't be equivalent to WIGO CP, a collection of links to funny events. It should be primarily for people like me to catch up on what has happened when they are away; where the interesting discussions are etc. This would make it useful, and help it to attract people. Then we can focus on the rest of the site. Educated word Phantom Hoover! 16:45, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh, and we should be able to WIGO ourselves, otherwise absolutely nothing will get done. --Arthropleura 20:06, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

CUR, you still don't get it, do you? This is not a site for bragging about yourself. weaseLICIOuS ^{Bite Me} 16:00, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

If there's one thing I've noticed on RationalWikiWiki, it's that no one will add important things unless someone else asks them to, or they were involved in it. --Arthropleura 21:21, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Arthur has a point - even if it was 2 weeks ago. He added the Schlafly Doo story to the WIGORW page after he was mentioned in a story. And I've added my own name to the RWians without articles list. Immensely sad I know. SuperJosh^{For no reason whatsoever} 18:15, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Power abuse

What's the matter Nutty Roux? Scared to have people see the insane violation of user space that you have done? --Arthropleura 15:51, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

CUR, let me make you a deal. If you can not make any stupid jokes and make productive edits, I will personally resysop you on Sunday evening. Educated word Phantom Hoover! 21:05, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

I'll take it- but the wiki won't. --Arthropleura 22:18, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

After Friday's fiasco? CUR set himself back a month with that one. human 04:46, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Arthur - what are you talking about? This is the first time I've logged into RWW in weeks. What did I do? If you want to keep fighting I'm game. That wasn't your userspace despite your RWW whitewash. Nutty Roux 04:25, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Never mind. By the way, I didn't whitewash my article. --Arthropleura 15:54, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

human vx nx

who cares but it might be funny if written well

By what title should we call this latest HCM, and where does it rank on the scale of HCM? MNpunkboy 06:53, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Pretty low. It didn't spiral out of control and was really just Human being, frankly, pretty childish. Armondikov 16:23, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

I would rank it HCM 4: insults have been flung at major editors, but the rest of the Wiki has not gotten involved. ListenerX^TalkerX 19:59, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

While I'd agree in general with Armond, the style shown by Nx's change to the entire site - and the hard core orders "not to edit this" when "input" was finally solicited - are really, really, different than how RW has operated for 2 1/2 years. But what do I know? human 03:52, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

We are not here to take a position on who was right in your dispute, merely to determine how the community reacted to it. ListenerX^TalkerX 04:28, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Well RW isn't really the same place it was 2 1/2 years ago. It's grown, is still growing and can and must change and adapt to this - and this happy-clappy commune of mobocracy may be one of the things that needs to go. While unilateral action really isn't the best way to go about stuff, sometimes it's the only practical solution; as the guy said, he seemed to be the only person who cares about this sort of thing. Discussing things is all well and good but there are talk page comments and suggestions that have been ignored and never responded to. So you really shouldn't be too harsh when someone gives two fingers to due process and just goes with it, more often than not that's the only way that things can get done. Nx has got more of a response and better constructive by going ahead with it and then asking than he would by bringing it up on the template's talk page or the Saloon Bar and canvasing opinions first. Armondikov 10:56, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

It's not like those templates, etc. could not have waited a week or so more for a bit of discussion in the bar. RationalwikiwikiUndergroundResistor 16:52, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Rather autocratic! "If I think something's right (or wrong) then it is and I'll change it without asking." Beauregard Mousefeather 21:11, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

"Having left and never come back" is utterly incorrect if you look at what I edited my user page to say. I just took a break from editing as "human" to collect my thoughts and compose my apologies. human 03:22, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

I think it's fascinating when this type of conflict happens with normally sane, reasonable, intelligent type people, like Human and Nx. From some people, you just expect drama and upset, but when it comes from people that don't normally engage in it, it really makes you think, what would cause this level of passion and emotion to turn it into a full-blown "I'm leaving the site" type of reaction? I still haven't figured it out. Just wish it didn't happen, or failing that, the the persons involved can learn and grow from it and take away something that enriches them from it. It just can't be fun to feel so upset that one would want to leave a site that they've spent a lot of energy developing. But, what the heck do I know? Not much. lol. :p Refugee 00:51, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Would you and your half baked opinions every go away and fuck off. 134.226.1.234 10:49, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Nope. :-D Sorry anonymous bunch-o-numbers. It looks like you could do a little work on your personal growth as well. Refugee 15:10, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Hello, MarcusCicero! Why don't you grow some balls and sign in? Test ^fail 20:56, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

MarcusCicero 'Vandalism'

Eh... Fuckwits?? Can't you see that Ace started the block war? I only deleted the last five pages for a laugh because the block war was getting out of hand. The vandalism was very clearly and obviously going to be reverted. And now I'm branded a vandal. I've made it very clear that I'm a troll. I'm not a vandal. Jesus H. Christ... 86.40.96.6 22:49, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Get fucked MC. You know that it was vandalism. Whether or not it gets reverted is irrelevant. MNpunkboy 23:18, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Are you a fucking idiot? Theres a clear difference since I knew straight away it would be reverted. And for some reason I'm also getting blamed for the block war, which as far as I was considered was just a harmless bit of fun. 86.40.96.6 23:33, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

And I know that my vandalism on CONservapedia will get reverted, and yet I don't bitch when they ban me. On the contrary, I expect it. In fact, the fact that I know I cannot change Conservapedia and will get permabanned is the reason I no longer troll or vandalize them. As far as the block war goes, that wasn't the problem, and we allowed you to retain your sysop powers right up until you started deleting everything. Then, we had to put a stop to it. It was harmless fun until you started trashing the wiki. Then it gave the community just what we needed to get rid of you. And for the record, it doesn't matter who started it, but we all know it was Ace. MNpunkboy 00:20, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Its not 'vandalism' if the vandalism wasn't malicious. I knew it would be reverted and it took 0.1% of effort. Stop being such a melodramatic dickhead. 86.40.96.6 11:25, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

MC's here to be a twat now? You guys can keep him. Crundy 19:51, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

The current HCM

Someone should really write about. I have done very little but RW seems intent on pulling itself apart with a free run for general illogicity. ^{— Unsigned, by: 86.40.104.161 / talk / contribs}

It's a bit difficult to write up at the moment. If "you" 86.40.104.161 are MC then you have certainly played a large part by exploiting what seem to be weaknesses in the site. On the other hand, to a large extent RW has brought this on themselves by responding to you and allowing you to fracture the site. But the issue is now now open on so many fronts and pages that it's difficult to get good handle on it and it would probably be better written up in a couple of weeks when the consequences have become clear.

If I may move from my usual position of commenting and make a more personal comment, I do not think that you should feel particularly proud of yourself.--False Flag 16:26, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Why? I live in a completely different world from them, I bask in the anonymity of the internet. While I don't feel proud, I genuinely feel no remorse. The problem with RW is that they leave themselves so open for trolling because hypocrisy is institutionalised on the site. RW really is fertile ground for some top quality truthful concern trolling. I come not to create, but to destroy.

I used to troll various sites and enjoy laughing at the outraged responses. Many people have not thought through their ideologies and are amazed that others could have other ideas. I used to justify my actions based on the idea that I was "doing them a favor" but as I grew older I started to realize the childishness of this and that I was simply creating a self-justifying fantasy. I began to realize that my motivation was looking at the contention I caused and laughing at it rather than "helping" the site involved. Let us imagine that people have come together to admire Tolkien, one could post saying that some of his works were boring and watch the fireworks. But at the end of the day you're just reducing some people's pleasure or happiness to enhance your own. You may say it's their fault for being obsessed with some issue; but, at the end of the day, making some people sad so that you feel happy isn't the coolest thing to do.--False Flag 17:36, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

If I'm perfectly honest, I behave in this way because it gives me inspiration for the things I like to write. A couple of months ago I wrote a play based on RA and Theemperor (Which was acted in a college theatre) and a short story based around Human, Jeeves and Susan. Of course not in an internet setting, but their personalities were heavily borrowed from. This latest controversy may just give me the inspiration to write my first novel.

In a completely abstract way I suppose that could be a justification. And on the internet we do tend to see people as abstractions or even objects to be manipulated. Simply words which appear on the computer screen. But they also exist as real people in the real world. I would like to think that you do not manipulate real people in the same way in the real world. Given that, why should people on the internet deserve less respect?--False Flag 18:38, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

People on the internet deserve less respect since they are projecting their personalities through words. In real life we see their insecurities in person, and this is where our concept of 'fair play' and 'good manners' come in. On the internet, we are free to say what we really think because we remove ourselves from the face to face context which determines our general good behaviour patterns.

In real life people also mainly transmit their personalities through words, the main difference being that they are spoken rather than printed. You seem to be suggesting that because their words are printed rather than spoken means that they are due less respect. Is that what you believe? I get the impression that you feel that the lack of fact-to-face interaction makes a difference. But do you insult people you speak to on the telephone? I assume that you do not. Whatever the means of communication there is a real human individual involved somewhere.--False Flag 19:54, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Oh please, less of the humanitarianism. I am an admitted troll. My purpose is to provoke emotion for my own amusement. In real life I live by a code of ethics like anyone else, but I enjoy taking the mick out of people on the internet who think they are building a shining city on a hill. I blame RW for being too easy to troll.

I imagine you can have too much of anything; but too much humanitarianism? Possible, I suppose. But I am starting to doubt that we have much more to say to each other. You say that you enjoy provoking people for your amusement. That sounds like what I described as exchanging other peoples' pain for your pleasure. I used to to it myself so I understand where you are coming from. As it happens I agree that RW allows itself to be trolled too easily, but that is really a sign of the naivety. I'm afraid that when you say: I blame RW for being too easy to troll, you rather sound like you are blaming the victim. Like the pickpocket blaming his marks for not being more careful. At the end of the day you get pleasure from your actions, and you get this pleasure at the expense of others.

You say that you live by a code of ethics, but I get the impression that you think this code of ethics should not apply to the net. I simply disagree.--False Flag 21:38, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Can I have a copy of the play? Theemperor 02:40, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

That could be informative.--False Flag 03:13, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Indeed, as I am curious how MC managed to turn a couple of nebbish-y internet addicts into workable on-stage villains. Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" ^{(cover your eyes!)} 06:41, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

As much as I'd love to, the play is unpublished in the traditional sense and was merely used as an independent play which my university kindly sponsered. Also, you'd have a good chance of identifying the RL me, and that just wouldn't do. I can promise you that no slander was involved, but do you remember the jibe I used to pull on the pair of you? The pencil pushing civil service types? Basically the jist is that one of you is in middle management and the other is in lower management. The play covers a series of conversations with the pair of you (Working in the same office) Revealing your insecurities as well as the reasons why you feel the need to advance in a world no one cares about (I presume the American civil service is similar to the Irish civil service in this respect)

Has rationalwiki lost its sense of self?

Ardmonikov leaves, citing the immature nonsense which is in vogue in RW. She raises and interesting thought; why has RW deviated so much from what it promises to be? Why are the most popular discussions about spaghetti and about getting rid of people they don't like? And whats even worse is the steady insistence in deleting edits and hiding them from public view - what the fuck happened their transparancy? Its lost its focus, it has no core principles any more, and is slowly dying. Soon all thats left will be humourless dullards like Goonie, TOP, Tetronian, Weasleoid, Pie and Crundy. Good God, I'm so very proud of my work.

So, MC, know any good spaghetti recipes? MNpunkboy 04:38, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

[MC]

Why did I suggest the committee in the first place? It was a joke, I tell you. Why couldn't they recognise a short sarcastic comment for what it was? Though they have renamed it 'Shadow Government' rather than 'Miniluv'. Broccoli 15:34, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm not dull, I know loads of stuff about model railways, stamp collections, and plane spotting. Crundy 18:01, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Fuck

Scrolled down the WIGO:RW page and all I see is MC, MC, MC. I shit you not. Hear my words. Mark them. I'll block and revert him everytime he sullies RW. My jack-boots fit well, thank you. Ace McWicked 10:38, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Your RW is a sham of a website and requires my objectivity to rip it apart. You cannot fix something if you insist on ignoring whats wrong with it.

Got stuffed in a trash can again, MC? Colonel of Squirrels 17:44, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Here, you can borrow my Luftwaffe uniform so it's even easier for MC to shout "OMG FACISTS". Theemperor 19:05, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

susan...

...what the hell happened? RationalwikiwikiUndergroundResistor 00:36, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

That's a hell of a question. I think had something to do with Human bashing her science blog stuff. Not really sure, though. Check her last few contribs. MNpunkboy

The 100th wigo is a damned good one

Even though NX doesn't think so. --Earthland 17:45, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

No, I think you are boring. -- Nx / talk 17:57, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm "boring"! How creative! What a closer! I don't think I'll ever be able to recover from such a devastating insult. --Earthland 20:36, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Blocking sprees

It's not so much that I think they're funny, it's more quasi-OCD. Educated word Phantom Hoover! 21:05, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

what is going on at RW?

What makes a good Wigo-RW entry? There are several things going on, but which ones are note-worthy? I avoided talking about the whole waron crisis of last week, didn't think it appropriate, but what is? I want to add something, but what? Refugee 00:11, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Hmmmmmm, good question. And now you know why I don't do WIGOs. Anyways, I think a good WIGO is anything that you want it to be, so long as it isn't the same shit, different day type stuff. I was highly surprised, for example, that nobody WIGO'd Tweety's deletion spree. But, basically, just anything that is odd or abnormal or, and especially, historically significant to RationalWiki's history. I know this probably didn't help much, but I also suck when it comes to WIGO stuff, so I'm sorry. MNpunkboy 03:18, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

I do a few WIGOs and I agree with the Minnesotan. Anything out of the ordinary or historically significant. As the page says, if in doubt, add it anyway. Rrose Selavy 10:50, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

I'd say you can't go wrong with adding as many as you want. Keeps the page interesting. Like "human instigates low-level HCM by unilaterally [fill in the blank]". human 02:11, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

That reminds me of that old TV show that had that song in the opening... "where everybody knows your name..." ..oh, now I remember it was called "Cheers", about a bunch of friends that meet in a bar, and you remind me of the guy that everybody cheered and yelled out his name when he came in the door - "Human!!!" :D Refugee 03:07, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for all the feedback, wrote a WIGO! :D Refugee 03:16, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Unblockable

Hmm, this looks set to create an HCM. It's already brewing. Crundy 12:13, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Eh, I wonder....

... who are these nine persons who found something noteworthy (positive, funny, surprising (or sad?)) about my return? And why - I thought I was just lame, boring and tiresome? --Earthland 08:34, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

11 actually. Good question though. 89.132.239.149 12:24, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Glad to see this place is up to date!

What the header says. Nice work! human 04:20, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. (I'm the only one who updates it besides RA occasionally.) Liveware Problem 04:32, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Nothing has happened here for three days. Sigh. Has RationalWiki jumped the shark? Liveware Problem 02:32, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Nah, that wonderful HCM from a few days ago died off, and this place had no food. But, now that that n00b requested adminship, we have enough to sustain ourselves for a little while. Punky McPunkersen 14:10, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Middle aged

WTF? Me saying I want to start a marine aquarium to give me something to do while working from home makes us middle aged? Who the fuck thought that shit up? Crundy 18:23, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm, I agree, Crundy, that that joke is quite stupid. If someone (anyone!!!) else agrees, then we can delete it. Punky McPunkersen 22:24, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

main page

This page needs to be more prominent on the main page. -- Nx / talk 21:34, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Well, I agree. Someone should try out some new design ideas, if they would deign to. Liveware Problem 22:53, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Agreed, though I no dick about how to go about doing that (I know, I suck). In truth, I think a slimmed down version should go above the "Goals" section on mainpage left. Punky McPunkersen 10:07, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Replace the entire "goals" section with a transclude of the page and archive more frequently to prevent it from being too big. Armondikov 18:06, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Server move

You're late to the party, it's done. -- Nx / talk 17:35, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Human's LANCB

So apparently no-one noticed that little HCM? -- Nx / talk 20:02, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

I'm happy to think that nobody cares anymore about whether he stays or goes, his contributions are now outweighed by his interaction deficits, as it were. Plus, he's no longer King of the Edit Count. Liveware Problem 20:08, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Longest WIGO Evah!

Well done, DeltaStar - I was just about to do that one myself. I'm still hanging my head in shame... SuspectedReplicant 18:22, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

It really does show - as was mentioned on the talkpage of the liberal atheistic anti-American vandal site - just what a good troll Terry Koeckritz is, we all really were all over the shop with that one. I think I've WIGOed it clearly here, the diffs show us all looking stupid. DeltaStar 01:34, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Okay, so, just reading the WIGO here it seems to me that the problem is with RW, not really TK's trolling. People have gotten too used to using these supposed real names and I think it reflects badly. Armondikov 20:10, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Two LANCBs and two HCMs in one day!

Srsly, what is going on at RationalWiki? Liveware Problem 05:24, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

The cancer that kills all good websites in time. SRSLY though, will we/they be able to function for a while with out Nx?Tyrannis 05:28, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Trent could theoretically do most of what Nx did. But Nx was... Nx. Liveware Problem 05:49, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

He was one of my favorite RWians. Liveware Problem 05:52, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Mine too, but I wish he wasn't such a fucking drama queen. SuspectedReplicant 10:40, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

There are a lot of RW'ians that I wish would return or edit more. Nx, of course. He's needed. I think that he probably will return. I hope so. Human. I miss him. PalMD. Radioactive Afikomen. Proxima Centauri. Mei. (Mei II as well, lol). I miss Fox, I liked him. I'd like to see more of Toast (Susan G) More from Lily, and Kels, more SirChuckB, more David Gerard, more Tom Moore, more of editors who have interesting, intelligent things to say, more from the editors who are fun and keep me laughing, more of those who make thoughtful posts... the community is diverse and can discuss things in depth without getting angry at other's views, but every now and then it seems like personalities get in the way. I wish I knew the solution for this. Refugee 22:18, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

AKjeldsen, Bohdan, Pink, and RA. If only, if only... Liveware Problem 22:42, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

For me, I miss Edgerunner76, Icewedge, Human, and Kektklik. They were my favorites. Conficker 00:06, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

"One of RW's favorite editors"

*sniff* I'm so touched. In fact, I feel a Sally Field moment coming on... --Psygremlin 13:47, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Occasionaluse LANCB

Seeing as his alter ego Neveruse had LANCB as a running joke, I fail to see the significance of this news. 86.138.143.17 12:08, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

I couldn't find anything else interesting to WIGO. Tyrannis 12:56, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

It is a useful WiGo only if one sees the LANCB as a joke. Conficker 15:15, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

ty, it's not as if you're on a quota or anything... 86.138.143.255 18:11, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

*Grumbles to self, drinks tea.*Tyrannis 19:02, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

MDB quits smoking

That sounds interesting. if only there were some way of following the relevant thread on RW from here. Rrose Selavy 21:49, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

linked. Ty 21:51, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Do not mess with DickTurpis, for he will win

It's a link to the block log with no filters to make it relevant or funny. RationalwikiwikiUndergroundResistor 14:17, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Oi! Ref!

Hope y'all don't mind the fait accompli, but I've removed the refs section from here and redacted the relevant wigeaux so the links are in the sentence. I think with this page the need for immediate linkage (rather than going up and down the page to read stuff) supersedes the slight drop in page tidiness. Feel free to kick this cross-dressing surrealist's arse if you disagree. Rrose Selavy 08:39, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Alright then. Also, great self description. Ty 12:16, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Accurate, too Rrose Selavy 16:26, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

But are you really an artist? Ty 16:31, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Everybody is an artist. I, however, am an artiste. Rrose Selavy 16:42, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Sure you are. Ty 17:02, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

End of CP

If it happens, anyone got any predictions of how bad it would be? Ty 22:54, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Loads of people whining that they can't follow Ken's every micro-resizing of a picture, except all over RW instead of just WIGO talk. Rrose Selavy 23:01, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

*shudder*. I think we'd lose a huge chunk of our users. There are a whole lot of people who edit primarily WIGO:CP, Noreseman, for example. There isn't much else at the site that might concern them. Ty 23:04, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

I would be very much against the idea. Ace McWicked 23:07, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

So we'd lose Ace. Ty 23:19, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Probably on my way out anyways, who can say. Ace McWicked 23:31, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Not sure how I'd feel about that. Ty 23:34, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Not sure that I care how you feel about that. </sarcasm> Ace McWicked 23:44, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Not sure that I care that you're not sure that you care about how Tyrannis feels about that. But, seriously, Ace is and will always be one of my favorites. Conficker 00:33, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

W/out Ace, the wiki would have far less character. Ty 00:35, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

And (from a lady's perspective, and, yes I know Ace is married) Ace is hot! Conficker 00:37, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Maybe I should just rename UST, Ace's fan club. :P Ty 00:38, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Meanies!

I think a lot of you are all mean for voting down my Sic semper transit WIGO. Yes it was an April Fool, but I thought the phrasing was delicate and subtle. My delicate sensibilities have been bruised. Bruised, I tell you. SuspectedReplicant 22:29, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

It's RW, we don't give a f**k about you sensibilities. :P Armondikov 22:42, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

I voted it up. Ty 22:43, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

I'm very hurt that anyone would vote it down and my bottom lip is trembling as I type. SuspectedReplicant 00:15, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

I am sad right now, though for completely different reasons. Ty 00:16, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

I am so upset that I wet my pants and got a stiffy. Ace McWicked 00:17, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

You should see your local priest about that. It's naughty, I tell you. Naughty. SuspectedReplicant 00:18, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

(EC) that's a new one. Ty 00:19, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

I voted it up. I vote up for every entry - I figure if someone takes the time and effort to write something here at RWW, no matter what, they deserve an up vote. :-) Refugee 00:40, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

and Ace... what a strange visual image, part gross part erotic. Refugee

I'm not sure if I will ever be able to eat, drink, sleep or be aroused ever again with that in my head... Armondikov 06:14, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Florida Department of what-the-fuck?

Just crawling out of my lurking hole for a moment to say this is the funniest thing I've read for some time. Armondikov 14:03, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

It is! Have fun, stay safe, don't make babies etc. Ty 14:04, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

I'd sock up and troll it but... nah. To much bloody effort. Besides, I have work to do. Armondikov 15:52, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Good, we don't want to have a "save ADK" fundraiser to prevent you from homelessness. Ty 15:54, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

When I say "work" I mean "I have a model of Thunderbird 3 to finish, a painting for a friend's wedding anniversary to do (though to be fair, that's now done and sent to the printers) and a shit load of VFX for a film project that I promised to do weeks ago". Oh, and a Thesis Advisory Panel meeting next week, but hey, I have my priorities. Armondikov 16:30, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Meh, I have another year until grad school. But I have no artistic skills what so ever, so have fun! Ty 16:33, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

$1000

... who on RW has that kind of money? Ty 18:52, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

I mean most of us are college students, teachers, scientists or Software engineers. My money(heh) is on one of the SW engineers: Crundy or Occasionaluse. Ty 18:56, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

It wasn't me (OU). The most I've ever donated was $50, I think. If the RWF wants the big bucks, they have to cave in to my demands (nitemoad, goat banners, unblockable user, etc). 66.90.73.223 20:40, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

I like the goat banner. Ty 20:42, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Then be sure to jump on my bandwagon during the next fundraiser. A goat banner will score the RWF $200. 67.159.56.162 21:03, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

For the record, I have always supported the goat banner, various IPs of Occasionaluse. Liveware Problem 03:27, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Hmm, If it happens in the summer, I might actually be able to contribute. Ty 22:05, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Sudden influx of CP sysops

DMorris, RobS, and now Newton. This should be interesting to watch. Ty 12:14, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Ken returned? Ken? Really? Who next, Karajou? Punky McPunkersen 13:57, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Ed is the only other one with an account, but yeah, i'd say Karajou. Ty 13:58, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

With the Wicked Witch dead, I assume it's no longer a treasonable offence to talk on RW. Armondikov 14:11, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Oh this is just lovely. Every time interest in the place is finally waning, they show up and work the drones into a frenzy. Ty 14:14, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Capturebot2

Is broken. Nx won't fix it. Discuss probable impact of lack of screencaps for WIGO:CZ/CP. Ty 17:02, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

It won't be a huge problem as long as people remember to take the screencaps manually. Ah, yes. I suppose that means it'll be a big problem. Disappointingly petulant from Nx. SuspectedReplicant 18:43, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Psygremlin is manually uploading. Ty 18:46, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

It's stuck in an infinite loop trying to upload a large file. The wiki is borked and doesn't return any error message, it just fails silently, and pywikipedia thinks it's a connection problem so it retries indefinitely. I took out the wigo that was causing it, but then Cracker reinserted it. I hate it when people mess around with the stuff I'm trying to fix thinking they know what the hell they're doing. 89.135.100.67 19:18, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

I'd love to help, but I know next to no python, javascript, or php, which makes me effectively useless. So I'll stay out of your hair.Ty 19:21, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Nx doesn't have to do anything as it isn't his job. The effect on CP... will probably be "meh". Armondikov 19:30, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

I know, and I personally don't blame him. My opinion:lots of whining for a while, maybe lose a few minor commentators, nothing major. Ty 19:33, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Oh noes!!! How on Earth will I be able to track the lastest stupidity coming out of Ken Demyer now??? Punky McPunkersen 00:00, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Oh, and I'm 403 blocked, so I can't fix the problem with the script that is supposed to cut out sections. It's not working on Ken's masterpieces, that's why the captured files are so large. 89.135.100.67 06:46, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Paid by George Soros

So that's where the $1000 donation came from! 81.158.167.106 13:46, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Holy shit it makes total sense!! No, really, it does. Armondikov 14:03, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

No if only he would pay us personally. Ty 15:06, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

MarcusCicero (again)

How long until the site is in a complete HCM 1 over MC again, and how long do we all think it will last this time? Conficker 00:30, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

I can't say. I think there will be a wheel war between Blue and Theemperor over his user rights. I'm just going to keep my head down unless it gets really bad. Speaking of which, what is the protocol for dealing with him here? Ty 00:32, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Good question. Goonie used to fight him here. But then, when Goonie decided he was done warring with MC, he let me unblock his range. So, I guess what happens is up to you. I'd rather just completely ignore him, as it worked in the past. Conficker 00:37, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

I'm going to ignore him. Goonie should be back from train hopping Friday, I'll ask him then what "official" policy he wishes to make. Ty 01:26, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Long WIGO is lllloooooonnnnggggg Ty 12:12, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Someone just promote the little tit and ban him already. The site won't lose a damn thing. SuspectedReplicant 12:19, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

I would do that, but then we'd be just liek CP!!!!!one 89.135.100.67 16:03, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Ah fuck

Remind me if I ever return and LANCB, to bot myself when I throw up the damn retired template. Ty 02:36, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

please don't LANCB. The drones need you.--Brxbrx 02:46, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

It's fine if he LANCB. I just don't want him to LANCB and not come back. SuspectedReplicant 02:50, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Sock #1 has launched. Ty 02:52, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Loya Jirga, human, et al

Predictions, comments, am I talking to my laptop again? Ty 19:26, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

It's almost impossible to see where this is going. Since the LJ election was missed, there's no current set of members, and having an election in the middle of all this is going to be pretty much impossible. Human's contempt for the rules has got to lead to have consequences, one way or another. SuspectedReplicant 19:29, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Vote is neck and neck. Ty 19:36, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

I've noticed that while he is doing an admirable job of explaining things and refereeing, ListenerX has yet to vote. Ty 23:59, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

I'm surprised. It isn't completely by Old guard/New guys lines. Ty 02:36, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Have I mentioned how much I am loving Kels right now? Liveware Problem 02:47, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Kels is now in my top 9 as well. Ty 02:49, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

And here comes human, also, Rob kindly informs Kels that she is no longer blocked at CP. I doubt she cares. Ty 03:16, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

HCM 1 0

I think we are there now. Although there isn't much colleteral damage or firearms used - most people are rather friendly and have actually realized that there's an issue. Any guess on the consequences of it all? --Ullhateme without an account 85.182.145.82 19:17, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

The stupidity against Human is an historical day; I really think RW has passed the point of no return. No going back now. The site might as well change names and start again; it really is unrecognisable. 86.45.195.245 19:25, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

UHM it is bad, very bad, and I thought for a while that something might actually get done, but no, the site remains as conservative as always. Kels breaking from the rest of the old guard gave a glimmer of hope though. Ty 19:29, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Human was wrong. No ifs, no buts. I don't believe anyone bar Nutty has seriously argued anything different. On the other hand, there were already moves (led mainly by people who voted Yes) to fix this problem for the future. Of course, if you want to troll around as usual instead of helping, that's entirely up to you. SuspectedReplicant 19:29, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Your idea of 'helping' is making the site more authoritarian and boring. You're always the first to cry teacher SR, its very boring and quite frankly you're making the site worse by your very presence. I remember the site before you lot were there and frankly it was much better; there was actually political debates rather than these prissy ego fights were you noobs vied with each other to make a name for yourselves. Kels always had a dullard instinct so I wouldn't read much into that. 86.45.195.245 19:45, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

(EC) I'm guessing that trolling comment wasn't aimed at me... I really hope some things will change, but it'll be hard to get that through. --Ullhateme 19:47, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

UHM, meet MarcusCicero. Liveware Problem 20:01, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

If more "authoritarian and boring" means that certain assholes don't get their play pen to piss in then I won't lose sleep. Armondikov 20:16, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Thats a fair point actually, but I think you're missing the point. There is a tendancy among some of the newer folk to make a drama out of everything - they aren't even considered trolls, but they are much more insidious than most avowed trolls - and hence 'make a name' for themselves by taking on a big gun, such as Human. Its incredibly petty and sad. If someone had have just recratted Blue and told Human he was acting a dick on his talk page the whole thing would have blown over. But no, you get a big giant fuckball in the chicken coop and create a drama out of nothing. You guys don't even need trolls, you troll yourselves enough already. For a time I genuinely did give up trolling because I didn't like the direction the site was going in, but then I decided to jump back on the bandwagon. But now its pretty tragic I have to say, pretty dire is the direction of the site right now. Why do you need all this drama? Why do you go to such lengths to manufacture it? 86.45.195.245 20:20, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

EC. SR sure likes stomping his feet and complaining about awful horrible Human. We get another strong assertion from someone who has consistently failed to cite a single rule Human allegedly broke. Blue's conduct is of a kind in that they were both obnoxious but within their rights yet the inmates here are heaping shit on Huw. I don't know exactly why that is but it is pretty clear from looking at what you're doing here and at RW that you all think you've got some kind of great plan that's going to get you something you want when all you're doing is having a public tantrum while you fan flames for people who were already on edge. Adamantly supporting decratting Human under the circumstances just goes to show what childish totalitarian turds a few of you are that you honestly think after it's all said and done that anyone looking back at this whole sham will see it as anything but some noisy and vicious little kids trying to run the schoolhouse. It was a railroad completely lacking in any due process. You might as well have called for Human to be lynched. No rule prohibited what Human did any more than one prohibited what Blue did; there were no rules on who could vote so open canvassing started occurring right at the polling place almost immediately and sockpuppets poured out of the woodwork to cast multiple votes and electioneer; we had peoples' sysop sock puppets voting to decrat when the decision to crat obviously has to come from a crat and the current informal procedure calling for a vote to create a new crat is also limited to crats; Human was never served with a proper indictment that laid out the charge in terms of rules allegedly violated instead of page full of people having emotional reactions in public and jettisoning all common sense - it seems the charges even changed depending on who was commenting, reflecting that the absence of any real guidance left people free to vote whatever criteria they wanted; it wasn't even clear how many votes would be required to decrat Huw if a real consensus emerged. If you creatures want to get rid of Huw just be honest about it and start a vote for him to be lynched or banished. Do one for me too, since I can tell my little outburst about your Obsessive Compulsive friend ruined my chances at being your bestest buddy. So sad. Nutty Roux 20:20, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

First, UH, apologies if you thought that was about you, it was about serial unfunny troll MarcusCicero.

Nutty, of course, is well on his way to becoming the next MC. It's such a shame because he used to be quite useful, witty, and engaging. These days, however, he simply insults people. And edit wars. That's it. No original thought, no helpful edits, no funny comments. Actually... that's LESS useful than MC - at least he raises a smile every so often. SuspectedReplicant 20:46, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Go fuck yourself, Nutty is twice the snivelling excuse for a man you are. You really a horrible cunt and I hope you fuck off eventually. You add nothing to the site other than a constant bitchness and dramatic attention seeking. You're like a combination of RA and David Gerard. Bear in mind that even though those two are practically gone, Human and Nutty are still around. You'll be long gone and eventually will be nothing more than a bad memory. 86.45.195.245 21:09, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

And that's why we will purge your country from the face of this earth and - wait a second who gave me the wrong speech here? --Ullhateme 21:30, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

SR, I blame the English language, which in cases like this horribly unclear. No offence made, no offence taken

Nutty, this whole thing did not start with human - who in my mind decrated without ground, completely pointless and without any justifying point - but about the constent HCMs that keep waving over RW. Over the last few months it has become not a place of fun and a mission, but a place were people that barely know each other constantly bitch at each other - sometimes on just grounds but mostly without. That people like me now have enough of this crap is not because we want to present our dick length but because the place has gone from being fun to becoming a pain the ass and we want it to be fun again. And no, I will not leave because RW has gotten it's place in my heart; and for things like that I will, if needed, fight. We want to stop the constant bitching, moaning and arguing about what is rule or not or about anybody who supposedly broke the rules. We want to make clear cut rules and people that enforce them without thinking about their alliances or how much that will coast in their relationships with other users. The RW of today reminds me of the Weimar Republic in it's worst days: Nobody cares about the rules, the rules are much to weak and the people that should protect them cross them constantly. If that notion is authoritarian to you then I will wear that banner with proud, if it is fascist to you then I will wear even that banner with proud and if I'm a piece of shit to you I will gladly call myself a piece of shit. --Ullhateme 21:04, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Great post. Now he's going to call you a piece of shit. Liveware Problem 21:09, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

If he does I'm gonna get a new sig. --Ullhateme 21:24, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

It's quite interesting to see the HCM/debate unfold. In many cases there seems to be a desire to keep RW as an old-guard only club, in which n00bs are welcomed only reluctantly, if at all. The more the site has gained members, the more entrenched have the old guard become. That's not a hard-and-fast rule - witness Kels breaking rank in the vote and ADK's desire for change - but it's a general rule. SuspectedReplicant 21:18, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

You don't get it. Nobody minds noobs so long as they don't manufacture drama's in order to massage their internet ego's or to make a name for themselves. You've done this so many times yourself and you are very transparant. In fact I'd go so far as to say that you are an actual troll - much better and more successful than I ever could be. In fact you could almost be a sock of mine. 86.45.195.245 21:21, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Who the fuck are you shooting at? --Ullhateme 21:25, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

He describes himself in such detail. Ty 21:26, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Marcus has just described the problem perfectly. He, and most of the rest of the old guard, are quite happy to see the site grow as long as the new editors do exactly what they're told. If they question anything at all, they're accused of causing HCM. Meanwhile, the old guard can do whatever the fuck they want and it's okay because they've been around for so long. SuspectedReplicant 21:29, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

86.45.195.245 is Marcus? (em, n00b-alarm!) Great now the only missing bit of information is who the hell he was talking too. --Ullhateme 21:34, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Marcus is so desperate for attention that he has started talking to himself. While 86.whatever is not always Marcus(sometimes its Rrose etc.) if it starts dropping profanity, you can guess it is. Ty 21:36, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

What did I miss THIS time? Javascap 21:39, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

The Balkans circa 1914. Ty 21:42, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

I think we should stop arguing here before we create a new HCM level 0: Spreading of the debate to other websites. --Ullhateme 21:40, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

It's less us arguing, and more us taunting MC about his lack of... well, anything really. SuspectedReplicant 21:47, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

SR is the most infuriating little cunt I have ever encountered on the internet. I really am not taking the piss, he is single handedly playing the role of victim, aggressor, persecutor, persecuted, judge, jury, plaintiff, prosecutor and defendant. You are utterly vile SR, truly a worthless piece of shit and you'll get whats coming to you eventually. They'll cop on your game and you'll be in the vandal bin. Fucking prick. 86.45.195.245 21:49, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Replace SR w/MC and tada! You have it. Except I've actually encountered worse. Ty 21:51, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

MC, let's play your game for a moment and see what happens. I've been saying for ages that the site needs to reform its user rights situation. As a minor gesture in that, I've refused 'crat rights because I really do believe there are too many people who have them. I have never said "this is shit" without trying to suggest something to replace "it", whatever "it" might be - that's a personal rule in life that I have, and I urge you to adopt it. In the current situation, there are several people who agree with me (often arriving at the decision through different routes, but that doesn't matter). Now look at yourself. You moan, whine, troll and annoy. Nobody takes you seriously and most people thoroughly dislike you.

In other words, if I'm trolling, I am so good at it that even long-term members of the site are taken in, while you are so transparent that it takes two explanatory posts to describe you to a new user. When it comes to being THAT good, is there any difference between trolling and putting forward useful suggestions?

I want to keep RW funny and relevant, but I want to do it in an environment where the scope for trolling is drastically reduced.

What is it that YOU want, MC? SuspectedReplicant 22:01, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

I want anarchy and freedom to reign on the internet. I want RW to be a hub of ideas and dissent. You seem so enthralled by the idea of creating rules, standards, procedures, a bureaucracy that you would spend all of your time doing that. In fact, I don't actually recall you doing anything other than 'making helpful suggestions' in RW, which leads me to think that you are one of these people who'd rather RW was run like wikipedia than as it is. Which is incredibly sad. Unfortunately nobody will ever make you see sense, nobody will ever be able to convince you that you are just another obsessional internet nerd with an autistic desire to impose order on everything. 86.45.195.245 22:09, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Your faulty memory is of no concern to me. SuspectedReplicant 22:12, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Sweet mother of fucking GOD!!!! SR, do you have aspergers? I mean, seriously... That edit alone displays a severe inability to read tone, social signals and betrays a profound inability to seperate the literal and the rhetorical. My God you are a fucking idiot. 86.45.195.245 22:26, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Marcus it is amazing: many RWians are talking about making a change in the structure of organization of the wiki. Yet, you and Nutty are obsessed with giving SR full responsibility. With Nutty's obsession the last days over Ty he doesn't really amaze me that much. But you seem to have lost your mind completely. SR is not the only guilty party. I am too. Armondikov seems to want a change. Ty is behind it (correct me if I'm wrong Ty). And Trent at least partially!

If you think the Mobocracy is sustainable on RW, that is great and you have a right to have that opinion. So get a few people that are on the same page as you and built a coalition. But don't let it all out a single guy, but actually go on RW and argue for it (to be fair I have been lost in the debate but I haven't seen you there anywhere near such a topic). And for goat's sake don't throw away the last shred of dignity and argue like a little cunt from CP that needs somebody to blame it all on. --Ullhateme 22:40, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Marcus, it's nice to see that you had no response to my earlier point about trolling. Basically, I win. You lose. 'twas ever thus. SuspectedReplicant 22:47, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

I should say the same thing about your failure to come up with a reason to decrat Human other than "OMG he decratted Blue and he does it all the time!!" All you got is to compare me to Marcus? Which doesn't have the power you probably thought it did because (a) he's a lot more intelligent and interesting to speak with than any of you all and you seem to know this or you wouldn't hang on his every word and (b) he's been an astute observer of RW's foibles for quite some time now. He's right a lot more than he's wrong and he's got the balls to get out there and make a point. And he's got an uncanny knack for spotting Apsies. And calling it like it is when a bunch of obsessive compulsive children pat themselves on the back for their RW edit counts and the shit their stir when they have utterly failed to comprehend that they are reviled to the extent anyone even knows who they are. What we've got here is just another example of SR calling someone a troll when he doesn't like the message. It's a meme now. There should be a corollary to Godwin's law that the moment tensions get inflamed the odds of someone unfairly calling someone else a troll approach 1. Nutty Roux 23:01, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Nutty, I can only assume that EddyP is right and that something really bad has happened to you lately. You've turned from being a useful editor to... well a bit of a disgrace to be honest. I just want you to know that I'm here for you. I'm willing to put aside our war of words and embrace you once again as a useful editor. Seriously. Opening up to an adversary is the best thing you can do right now. For your own good, please do. SuspectedReplicant 23:08, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

I must say, insulting other users, hating on aspies, and over all being a dick is unbecoming of an RW editor. You'd do great at ED, though! We'd make fun of people with Assburger's all the time. lol, assburgers--Brxbrx 03:21, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

If SR wasn't such a simpleton, he would realise that the reason I have not participated in the debate is because I understand that I would automatically discredit whichever stance I take. You see SR, I'm not some aspie retard like you who has no understanding of social dynamics. I don't blame him universally but he seems to be the most egregious example of what is currently wrong with RW at the moment. There are plenty of long standing members who see this too thankfully. Just remember that RA and David Gerard never really lasted all that long either, most people just got sick of them in the end. SR is in that vein of person. 86.45.195.245 09:21, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

This aspergers slur is getting old, have any new material yet? Armondikov 15:46, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Going around crying aspie is no different than going around crying about faggots and niggers, and I don't see why we should treat those who do the first different from the second. EddyP 15:54, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Lol, its not the same. Asperger's syndrome is a fundamentally funny disorder. I use it to stereotype everyone lacking in basic social intelligence and/or someone with absurd patterns of obsessional behaviour. Plenty of internet nerds could be aspies, in reality few are. And Armondikov will be the first to learn about my newest slur, as soon as I think of one. 86.45.195.245 16:42, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Did somebody call for an aspie? Here I am. Aspie 02:22, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Eerie calmness now over at RW. Sterile 16:16, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

It is oddly quiet, now that you mention it. Ty 17:05, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

I'm just wondering if it's too obvious to point 86 in the direction of our old friend Mr Psychological Projection? Armondikov 22:29, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Maybe the cabal, (or what is left of it) is preparing for battle? Julius Marx 23:43, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Maybe everyone's at work/studying/asleep. who can guess? I expect things to pick up soon, a long inactive person just unblocked themself. Ty 00:04, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Prepare for battle? LIGHT THE BEACONS!! SOUND THE HORN OF GONDOR!! Or whatever, I haven't seen that film in years and don't care a massive amount for it. Armondikov 17:49, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Night of the plastic knives

As Nx took the sysops from behind (the scenes) there's no one who can undo the 24 hour block I gave myself. So I'm just going to sit back and watch from here whilst basking in the admiration for my titanium balls/pussy/whatever. Enjoy, guys! Armondikov 13:46, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

I was thinking of blocking a ton of people right after you dropped everyone's crat rights... it would have been even more funny with everyone who was awake and popular blocked out of the conversation... --Eira 14:14, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Ah, but I didn't touch sysops, that was Nx. Armondikov 14:17, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

I know you didn't touch sysops... which is why it would have just been a funny joke block, which turned into a serious "they can't participate" --Eira 14:30, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Somewhat OT, are we really going to call it "Night of the Plastic Knives"? Can't we come up with something better? --Eira 14:14, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

It was the best I could come up with at short notice. Armondikov 14:17, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

The Summer of 2011. Like the summer of 1968. Or maybe the Saloon Bar putsch?--Brxbrx 14:19, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Sunday Afternoon of the Blunt Knives. seeing as it was on a Sunday afternoon. Rrose Selavy 15:25, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Which timezone? It was early morning here... it still is morning where I'm at... --Eira 15:33, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

{ec}O rly? It happened at around dawn for me. "Night" for the sake of congruity with history. How about the May Revolution, like the October Revolution? Plastic knives is rather unappealing to me.--Brxbrx 15:34, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

It's unappealing to me too, that's why I bitched at ADK for coining it! --Eira 15:36, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

UTC. the time zone that RW runs on. Also it was afternoon for Armondikov and Nx. Hmm may revolution... useful? Rrose Selavy 15:38, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

It's like linnean names... whoever names it first establishes the official name, even if it later turns out to be a crappy name. --Eira 15:40, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Megalosaurus was soooo lucky with that. Rrose Selavy 15:54, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Fortunately for Megalosaurus the person wasn't intending on creating a linnean name, and the world gets away with not calling the Genus Megalosaurus "Scrotum". This however, was first referred to as "The Night of plastic knives" and thus the name gets priority. --Eira 16:04, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

The revolution rejects your bourgeois and oppressive nomenclature as counter-revolutionary. The May Revolution! Or the Saloon Bar Putsch. You must admit, that last one has the best damn ring to it.--Brxbrx 16:07, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

None of those names have priority... you lose, don't be sad... --Eira 16:10, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Night of the plastic knives it is then. If only to shut Brxbrx up. Rrose Selavy 16:41, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

( why does everybody always want to shut me up? Anyways, that's the opposite of what would happen. But I won't press it.--Brxbrx 16:47, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

"The Glorious Revolution began with the Night of the Plastic Knives..." We need something better. ^_^ Liveware Problem 17:36, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Since it wasn't a "Glorious Revolution" we don't. --Eira 17:38, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Either way, the name is derivative and silly. Liveware Problem 17:42, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Quiet

It's nice to see the serious discussion die down for a bit, I think it's just what the wiki needs right now. Liveware Problem 19:29, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

You do know that the dissidents have been imprisoned? This is the same kind of thing that happens in Iran; summarary internment of suspected dissidents and democrats. Nx banned me for a week, yet this sycophantic website chose not to report it. What is the purpose of this site? It used to be good as a source of criticism for RW but now all the active aspies over there are active over here, a great pity really. 86.46.166.191 19:57, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

You're not a suspected dissident, you are a troll. Plain and simple. 89.135.100.67 20:01, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Nice to see it's all falling apart

And nice to see the old guard still blissfully in denial on their Facebook group, blaming this all on the evil noobs, rather than admitting that RW is rotten to the core. Good riddance. Educated word Phantom Hoover! 17:49, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

I wouldn't know, I don't use facebook. I do find it hilarious that they think that there is a new cabal though. Ty 17:52, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

What's really funny Ty is your ignorance. There is a new "mini" cabal - set up to read TK leaks. Do try and keep up, there's a good boy. Oh and PH, everything was running swimmingly until a handful of noobs decided they needed a new sandpit. Like the one your head is stuck in. --Psygremlin 18:01, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, this problem is that noobs need a sandpit. Not that RW deals with all disputes by throwing fuel onto them until they burn themselves out and take most of the wiki down with them. Not that a funny name was attached to this and not because it was vehemently defended by the likes of you who are, ironically, conservative to the point of self-delusion. Not that this conservatism has resulted in the stalwart adherence to an attitude towards trolls that only serves to shovel food to them. Not that the community is fraught with hatred, which is embittered by and serves to promulgate every minor fight. No, you'd all get along fine if it wasn't for those goddamn noobs coming to the site and discovering an atmosphere so toxic that only overgrown 13-year-olds could thrive there, and attempting to change this. Educated word Phantom Hoover! 19:52, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Coming from anyone other than you, I might that that rant seriously. And using conservative as a snarl word? That's a new low, even for you. --Psygremlin 20:09, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

I am using conservatism as a snarl word only inasmuch as RW itself does. And why the personal attacks all of a sudden? You could at least have the decency to make it clear when you have a longstanding contempt for me, rather than hazily referring to it with no precedent. Educated word Phantom Hoover! 20:14, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

I am referring to several users throwing the term "New Cabal" around, not that. Ty 18:04, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

{ec}Yeah, blame the noobs. Not the old guard's infighting and trolling.--Brxbrx 18:04, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Oh yes the "old guard", like Eira and Blue and Ty and you. All of this latest crap lies firmly on Ty and Blue's shoulders. At least she had the good grace to quit. --Psygremlin 18:11, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Oh for fuck's sake, Psy, get your head out of your ass. "Going swimmingly?" "This latest crap?" Have you been mentally absent for the past week? Armondikov and Nx acted just as unilaterally and just as destructively, if not more so, than I did. The entire fucking issue was created by them, and yet you lose your shit over me undoing half of their changes? It's disgusting. Liveware Problem 19:15, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Get over yourself. You think undoing one wrong with another was a good thing? No wonder the site is turning to shit. The mass demotion was a move to get everybody's head out of their arses and actually do something. Instead, people just started bitching about having lost their rights. So much for the greater good of the wiki. --Psygremlin 19:51, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Actually I think people took the mass demotion pretty well and in the spirit of the greater good of the wiki, the only problem was a few users who believe that they are the wiki and can sling shit with the best of them, and utter naivete on the part of others. I apologize for 'fiddling while Rome burns', but I've scheduled a contest with the Devil on the 21st and need all the practice I can get. And seeing as the current structure of RW ensures that as soon as I put out a fire someone will be along to relight it (and no doubt call me a fascist aspie bureaucrat), I'd rather just not get worked up about it. Though assuming the world is still here on the 22nd, Trent has proposed a pretty good idea which scraps the now-tainted crat position. EddyP 22:58, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

WTF did Ty do?--Brxbrx 18:17, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Re-instigated the HCM by cratting everybody again. Still, it's fine - you have your wiki now. Just hope you guys can support it on your pocket money come the next fund raiser. --Psygremlin 18:24, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Psy, Brxbrx is on our side. 89.135.100.67 18:28, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

{ec}I take it you supported ADK's decratting? As did I. But you know, tmtoulouse is doing stuff. Maybe that will restore order. Also, it isn't like the wiki has stopped. People are still doing RW-style things. There are articles being created and improved, and people are still discussing things on WIGO:CP and the Saloon Bar. Don't lose hope.--Brxbrx 18:31, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

When the hell did I become "old guard"? And when did anyone start taking the word "cabal" seriously? --Eira 18:33, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Certain people feel that I apparently am the head/member of a cabal of user bent on doing... something. As for your first point: you have been around since December 2007, likely why you are considered part of the "Old Guard". Ty 18:37, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

I've been here since February. I am def. not old guard.--Brxbrx 18:38, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

The term is pointless. Kels was one of the original members, Blue joined about a week after Psy, etc. Ty 18:40, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

True, I've been around a long time, but I haven't been "in charge" at all, and had not involved myself in politics in general. Of course, I made it onto the board, so that has to be evidence of me being "old guard" I guess. And yes, you are the head/member of a cabal of users bent on destroying the wiki. As a member of the Old Guard, I must vigorously protest your actions, and oppose everything that you promote. --Eira 18:41, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Give it up, Ty. Everyone knows you are secretly bankrolled by the Templeton Foundation...or Opus Dei, or something. 72.43.118.50 18:54, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Actually, I am a bizarre mixture of rather wealthy and rather poor at the same time. I cannot be "bankrolled easily" whatever Jimmy may think. Ty 20:24, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Nice to see all the LANCBs here

All the bitching and shit talking on RW is too much so they leave... to come here and bitch and talk shit. Stay classy, RWW. --Eira 20:34, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Hey, LANCBing is a fundamental mechanism of RW. Without it, it would have exploded like any self-respecting anarchy long ago. Educated word Phantom Hoover! 20:41, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

It can get really heady here when the likes of FalseFlag or Hans Johnson show up. Ty 20:52, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Granted, but I don't really see it as validly "leaving" if you're still here. I mean, this place is still pretty much RW... --Eira 20:53, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Actually, not so much, it's usually pretty quiet here. While everyone here has an account at RW, several of them edit maybe once a month, if that often. Ty 21:00, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Granted... which is why people come here to bitch... because they can get it off their chest. But you can also rant into a paper bag, or on your blog, or facebook account. Bringing the drama here doesn't actually stop the drama shitstorm... it just brings that shitstorm here. --Eira 21:05, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Hence why it has been so noisy here this month, it had been relatively nice and quiet here. Ty 21:06, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Speaking of LANCB, ADK is a board member. Can a board member LANCB? (Nebby) 24.168.26.125 21:23, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

I recall human mentioning that he is going to put it before the board to fire em, I doubt it matters. Eira would know. Ty 21:27, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

It's complicated... --Eira 21:28, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

... If Eira is saying it is complicated 0_0 Ty 21:29, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

I'm not saying "It's complicated" because I don't understand it, nor that I couldn't explain it. It's a social code word meaning, "it's not my business to discuss the matter". ... you damn aspies ;) --Eira 23:26, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

It's a joke based on your general obtuseness and pedantry. Ty 23:30, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Oh, I got that it was a joke, but apparently you've underestimated how pedantic I am... --Eira 04:46, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Doesn't "pedantic" normally precede the word "bitch". Oh and following your pathetic edit war with Kels, "childish" is the word I'd use for you. Especially somebody in your position at RW. --Psygremlin 08:44, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Most of 'em will probably be back soon anyway, that's how LANCB works. (Nebby)

Er, Blue once left for almost a year... Ty 21:49, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Commentary

I dunno if this belongs here, or somewhere else on RWW, or nowhere at all, but here goes. As I've said before, I like everyone on RationalWiki in their own special way. Everyone on RationalWiki serves and has served a special purpose of their very own. Perhaps that's why I hate this HCM sooooo very much: everyone I like was affected (except, perhaps, MarcusCicero, but that's another story). Worse, in my opinion, was that it was my friends versus my friends. Human versus Blue. Nutty versus Ty. And so on and so forth. Which is why, when I got involved, I was very out of place and it certainly showed. Fuck, man. I mean, really, why all the fighting? Have we not all put a lot of our time and effort into RationalWiki? I'm sick of all the fighting going on at RationalWiki and, by extension at RationalWikiWiki. Hell, the in-fighting has even gotten all the way into the RationalWiki Board. Again, people I respect and like. Not always people I get along with, but that's only in a professional sense (like fighting with a co-worker). So, how do I end this commentary. I dunno. I'd hate to be cliché here, but can't we all just get along? Here's how we should start, should we so choose: I suggest we here on RWW start a "jokes" section in the Treehouse and tell eachother jokes. At the very least, it's a good ice btreaker, and then, maybe, we could even extend that to the saloon bar? Punky McPunkersen 14:03, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

The problem is it's gone way beyond the initial "Waa! Human promoted somebody" clusterfuck, into people getting anal over their rights and now its come down to personality issues. If you want to resolve it:

• Demote everybody now
• The Board decides who is suitable for the positions Trent decided and promote accordingly.
• Elections or whatever can be held later to ratify the interim positions.
• The mods can then exercise control over who is still fighting.
• Oh yes, and get rid of MC. Whoever thought that was a good idea is a fucking moron. --Psygremlin 15:06, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I think MC is just a minor symptom of the disease here. Right now, it seems to me to be fighting for..... well.... I can't tell anymore. We could say it's fighting over who controls the Wiki, but it isn't. It could be said that it's people airing out years of bad laundry amongst eachother, but I don't think it's even that simple. The solutions to this problem, like the problem itself, will be very complex and will take a long time to hash out. We could go with you suggestions, and I'm not saying whether or not I think they are the way to go, but I think that the fix will be even more complex than many realize. I think the single biggest problem as of late is that people stopped looking at user rights in the "mop-and-bucket" sense. No more was being a sysop akin to being a janitor. No longer was being a 'crat just a janitor with an even bigger mop. Rather, the Wiki wanted change, and wanted administrators that held actually meaningful titles. And when that happened, the people with those titles then started trumpeting the importance of those titles that were meaningless before. Punky McPunkersen 15:24, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Yes and no. Honestly, where the wheels fell off was with the mass promotion - and I honestly don't think that was a bad thing. It was a way (ok, it could have been done better) to kick start the reform process around rights, rather than the endless talk shop. Which is all that's happening now again. It's also not about assigning value to rights but that RW had become too big and too impersonal (compared to say, a year ago) for people to be sysoped on a whim. People took it very personally that they'd been demoted, not realsing that in 99% of all cases it was tempory. That soon dissolved into name calling and certain unnamed editors who ought to know better vandalising main space articles just to prove a point. Then when people were running around creating political parties and cratting MC, it gave the impression that they were just fucking around anyway. You're not going to be able to please everybody - and you know what? fuck them. Rationalwiki comes first. --Psygremlin 15:50, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

LI guess that, at the very least, I'm angered the most by the fact that eveyone is acting so damn childish as of late. It's fine if, say, ListenerX doesn't like (insert name), or I don't like (insert name), but to reduce things to childish insults like calling people "Aspies" or to form factions... is just plain childish and unbecoming of the people and web community that I've come to love. Punky McPunkersen 16:07, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

I'm partial to TMT's Sneetches comparison. Nebby

As am I. IINdeed, I've never looked at being a 'crat as anything more than a user with a couple extra buttons and, to that end, I like(d) being one because I could sysop cool people and make them feel good about what they were doing on the Wiki. I was utterly shocked when I had the (apparent) audacity to ask some questions about our proposals for reorganizing the user groups and someone said "your jusr saying that to protect your 'crat rights!" You know what? If giving up my 'crat rights means that people whose company I enjoyed on the Wiki would return (Kels, ADK, Blue, etc.), then I say "Fuck my rights! Bring them back!" I'm dead serioous that the only reason I retain them is because I enjoy being able to sysop people and because (eventually) I plan to rename my account away from my very outdated "Gooniepunk" persona (which I've been using for 7 years now!) But I will not cry if my 'crat rights are gone, and I'd likely say "good riddance!" just as easily when they are gone. Punky McPunkersen 16:45, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

The only thing I ever really used was changeing myself to a bot(which I could do anyway) and renameing myself. Ty 16:48, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

I'm definitely with Goonie in the "can't we all just get along" camp, though it seems tough when everybody decides to escalate minor problems until they become vendettas. Fucking hell, I still can't for the life of me figure out what the hell all this is about; it sure isn't about Human decratting one user. Regardless, I think this page is a little too off the beaten track to try to sort anything out. One thing is clear to me, RationalWiki needs at least a few actual rules. Not many, but some. And it needs some method of settling disputes which is non-partisan, effective, and fair. This shouldn't be controversial, but apparently it is. Turpis 18:10, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

We're fighting because RW hasn't yet dealt with increasing scale, and it hasn't dealt with its identity as a increaing pool of identity. If human had decratted someone two years ago, this wouldn't have been as much of an issue. Sterile 01:06, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

edit button(as am on phone)

The problem in my opinion is that the site was founded with only a small amount of people in mind. We grew too quickly. Another problem is that in order for the site to grow, change is required. There are no vested contributers. When human's activity fell in the early part of the year the rest of the wiki took up the slack. I see it like watching your child all grown up, the wiki to my mind (again this is all my thoughts) is like a teenager or maybe a college student. And human dogP and the rest are suffering from the idea that someday in the future they will no longer matter. That is life. So they try to show that they are still "in charge" it will all be just like "old times". The current crop of editors will probably go through the same thing in a few years time, assuming we are still around. It is similar to the debate about the role of wigocp earlier this year. One day cp will die. What do we do then? Close up shop, exchange emails and then say good bye? No, because as Trent showed us, people take us seriously now. I consider this growing pains.Ty 01:50, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

You know, when ever you say something that's "us vs. them" it sounds silly. RationalWiki isn't about us or them. It's about all. Sterile 02:03, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

that is what I thought I just said. It is community growing pains. Apparently my writing skills are worse than I thought, if you got that out if it.Ty 02:33, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

The only reason that there has been fights is because so many of you are obsessional aspie types who can't help but get enveloped in the drama. Mountain out of a molehill; the LANCBs didn't help, but generally there was no issue to begin with and there still isn't. So long as users like SuspectedReplicant and Phantom Hoover are about there will be trouble. 83.71.28.175 10:17, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but as the resident pedant, I have to point out that aspies don't involve themselves with drama, and generally avoid social interaction. --Eira 11:33, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Well, now we know that you aren't one. --Ullhateme 20:22, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Amazing, substitute "aspies" with "liberals" in that thing and you get him. --Ullhateme 20:22, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Why trolls?

I don't get it. Trolls kinda has a specific meaning. Sterile 02:01, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

It meant trolls scored 8 "points" or whatever vs RationalWiki by getting those users to leave. Not that the users are trolls. --95.154.230.253 02:39, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

It's not clear that it's outsiders that got them to leave. Sterile 12:36, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

If we are talking about the usual motley crew of "outsiders", such as RobSmith, JimJast, MarcusCicero+assorted socks, myself, various passers-by from CP or aSK... well, none of us had much to do with causing the latest HCM, from my understanding. It was all "insider" editors going to war against other "insider" editors, and that was what made people leave. Maratrean 12:39, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Mara is correct here... it's people like Psygremlin attack me that have been driving people away. I'm not going to say that Psygremlin isn't justified, or right or wrong on the matter. But dealing with people harassing you is upsetting, annoying, and it's all the "inside" people doing it. Not any of the "resident trolls" that we have. --Eira 12:43, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

I think a more accurate heading would be Butthurt 8 - RW 0. Nebby 20:46, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Whilst I agree with the sentiments that its not the trolls that have caused the LANCB's, I think it is plain that Psygremlin is now just trolling the wiki. --121.98.88.5 21:00, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Eira I really don't want to piss on your head again, but before you make statements like that have a very close look at the people who left and why they left. It's exactly this head in the sand attitude that's currently fucking the wiki up. Suddenly everybody is too shit scared to criticise somebody. Well fuck that. Eira was wrong and if people left because of that, then it's her fault not mine. And that, gentlemen and Eira, is my final contribution to any of RW's projects. have nice lives. Don't bother to think why somebody would start ranting after 4 years. That might make you uncomfortable. --Psygremlin 21:04, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Oh and BoN - go fuck your sister. I hear she likes it up the ass. --Psygremlin 21:04, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

My post acknowledges that I may totally be the reason why some of the people left. I am after all not a "resident troll", I am an "inside" person. The community is harassing each other until we don't see any good to staying, and we leave. It's not the resident trolls doing shit... we're tearing ourselves apart at the seams. --Eira 21:52, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Uhm...

So I checked RWW again today after some time, saw the Psy-WIGO and wanted to click on the Facebook friendship link but the link doesn't get anything. So is that because of me or did Psy "clean up"? --Ullhateme 23:12, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Some people are taking this RW stuff a little too seriously methinks. I can't get the link either. Blogging about personal spats on a fun little wiki is kinda tragic - but perhaps I am biased. --Pinetree 23:38, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Psy apparently vaped the entry in question. RationalwikiwikiUndergroundResistor 23:59, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Oh really. Hmm. Ty 00:17, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks to the wonders of web caching articles are never truly gone. Link copied here. (No comments available though.) --Eira 06:42, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Oh look, it's the Ty and Eira creepy stalker show. --Psygremlin 11:22, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Oh wow. Ty 11:47, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

People asked for it... and I knew about web caches, so I found it. I hardly care about the content myself. --Eira 12:32, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

I really must say i don't agree with having that cached link here. Just people asked for it doesn't mean we should post it. There was an agreement a long time ago that off-RW info was out of bounds. Rrose Selavy 08:22, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

no new wigos in a while

DMorris made a comeback, I was desysopped, I started French RW (anew?), memememememememe- most of the wigos I can think of involve me... Don't worry I'll get over myself soon enough.
My point is, plenty of things have gone on/ are going on that we shoudl be writing about (like me!)!--Brxbrx 02:03, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

I'm watching a movie right now. Try writing a wigo yourself. Ty 02:06, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

ok...--Brxbrx 02:07, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

a yawn? am I incapable of being at the center of worthwhile drama?--Brxbrx 02:59, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

You are, its just that we all know that Nx is trying to provoke another HCM by doing something that he told me just yesterday was forbidden by the rules [1]. So yeah, yawn. --Pinetree 03:05, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

(EC) I'm frankly sick of the drama. Ty 03:06, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

I was all ready to pounce on Nx for being a hypocrite, but the User Rights Log] indicate that Nutty Roux actually desysopped Brxbrx rather than Nx. So your assertion that Nx was provoking an HCM does not jive with the facts. --Eira 10:48, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Ah yes good catch. My apologies to Nx. --Pinetree 04:36, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

I recall recently reading the article on Drama queen... shall I add you in the "See also"? --Eira 10:48, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

You should. Ty 12:13, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

A lot of the stuff that's going on is repetitive promotion and demotion of various people for no apparent reason. Also, most of the May HCM is over, there's just Trent's proposal, and those stupid political parties seem to have fallen quiet, apart from brxbrx jumping up and down and going "look at meeee!" If I've missed anything it's because I'm fed up of the whole thing. Bring back the dinner photos! Rrose Selavy 08:15, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

The whole thing is drama. Dinner photos?--George 14:31, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

The dinner club Forum. here Ty 14:33, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Interesting. Some of the crazy stuff people do.....--George 14:41, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Captchas

These God damned captchas are fucking annoying and I guess I won't be adding to the Sarah Palin article because my university has RW blocked. I use proxies and if you're going to use captchas to keep the proxies out, then you're no fucking better than Andrew Fucking Schlafly. 184.95.44.3 02:39, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Looks like our plan to rid ourselves of trolls and vandals is working--Brxbrx 02:41, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Or you could, you know, make an account... Ty 02:42, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Which would I prefer, CAPTCHAS and the occassionally annoyed IP editor who could skip them by simply creating an account (that's right, it's that simple), or deleting spam left and right after the spambots lock onto a page and won't let it go..... Hmmmm..... Punky McPunkersen 11:12, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Easy for you to say but I "CAN'T" make an account because there's a CAPTCHA to make an account. My university BLOCKS RationalWiki and therefore I have uttterly no CHOICE but to use proxy sites, and the captchas are malfunctioning on both HideMyAss and NewIPNow. The one on this site works, but the one on the real RW does not. Try it for yourself, newipnow.com and hidemyass.com. 184.95.44.3 14:22, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Wait, your university blocks websites? You should probably start by attending an institution that treats its students like adults and believes in the free flow of ideas. RationalwikiwikiUndergroundResistor 15:21, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

I go to this fundie university which I will not name that my parents made me go to. Unfortunately since they pay half of my tuition, I had no say in the matter. I was able to get on RationalWiki from work until the IT guys said I was wasting too much time browsing it and they said I couldn't do it anymore; I work in the cafeteria at a high school part time (oh boy, here comes the lunch lady jokes). 184.95.44.3 15:54, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Oh, Jesus. Tell your parents they'd be better off sending you to a state school. That fundie college will never get you into a decent law school/med school/grad program. It really, really makes me sad and angry when parents don't trust their adult children enough to allow them to engage with the big world.

I tried to tell them that, I wanted to go to OSU, but they wouldn't hear of it. "Too many atheists" they said. 199.119.226.10 17:16, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

We use captchas to keep the spambots out. Unfortunately, most proxies don't seem to like recaptcha. I've tried disabling captcha for anon edits that don't add external links, and you can see the results here and here, so I had to reenable it. Sorry. -- Nx / talk 17:56, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

HideMyAss works for me [2] -- Nx / talk 18:01, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

"I wanted to go to OSU"

Sweet Jesus. As a Michigan guy, all I can say is "What? Really?" RationalwikiwikiUndergroundResistor 19:25, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

It's RationalWiki vs. religion as a debate on Tmtoulouse's talkpage heats up.

Where? There are no debates about religion anywhere on TT's page that I can see, and the last edit to a thread is more than 2 weeks old. RationalwikiwikiUndergroundResistor 12:50, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

here Ty 12:56, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

I really thought I was alone til Maratrean and ListenerX showed up. Of course, I'd prefer other atheists as allies, or at least memebers of a religion they didn't found themselves. Just kidding, guys, you know I love you! ListenerX, I voted for you.--Brxbrx 16:11, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

I am not the founder of Odinism/Asatru; that honor goes to Sveinbjörn Beinteinsson of Iceland. ListenerX^TalkerX 18:52, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

I disagree with the "heats up" moniker, there. It's extensive, and fascinating, but "heats up" seems to imply people shouting at each other. Armondikov 20:00, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

tmtoulouse seems kinda harsh to me, but maybe I'm just biased.--Brxbrx 20:53, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Not necessarily, just getting very technical, very quickly. Armondikov 21:28, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

I like Trent's technicality. When someone makes some vague/general response to something you've posted, it can be hard to craft a response; sometimes one is left searching for a clear and distinct idea to respond to, and any attempt to dig one out, can get the response "that's not what I was saying"... Trent introduces formalisms, and then one has the obvious task of looking for holes in the formalisms he proposes, or to propose alternative formalisms instead. RW would be better if it was more technical, i.e. if more editors were like Trent. (Tetronian is a good one too.)

BTW, 80% of the stuff I say, I could still say if I was named "LiberalChristian" instead. Sometimes I feel like creating an account by that name, just to get rid of the specious "you founded a religion so ipso facto everything anything you say I disagree with is false" arguments some editors make (Nutty Roux is a good example of that) Maratrean 10:14, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

That would turn RW into Less Wrong. And we already have a Less Wrong. It's called Less Wrong. Armondikov 12:24, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Less Wrong has an insufficient diversity of opinion (too much Yudkowsky personality cult). RW has a better diversity. What we need is a site which has the technicality of LW but the diversity of RW. Maratrean 19:26, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

I made a troll post on lesswrong! But I acted too quickly and I didn't pay attention to rules/protocol, and my little essay will never be seen... I tried again on their forum but they deleted it before I could see any replies. Oh well.--Brxbrx 21:02, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

You can't troll Less Wrong without putting in a batshit insane amount of effort, knowing what you're talking about and putting together a weird but watertight argument. By that point, though, what you're doing isn't so much trolling as just being an active member of Less Wrong. Though if you thing RW has more diversity I'd almost disagree, it has a very low political diversity (by product of growing from the official "let's laugh at Conservapedia" page) and the religious diversity probably isn't as high as it should be to generate meaningful theological debate. But if it was more technical, a la Less Wrong, you'd suffer from the fact that everyone was highly technical and were all Bayesians. I don't think you can have diversity and technical specialisation like that, they're mutually exclusive things. Armondikov 12:12, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

:( So my troll post weren't no good?--Brxbrx 13:28, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

No, because Less Wrong doesn't put up with shit. Armondikov 13:36, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Mod results

Meh. Ty 12:18, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

insults & aggression

I will be soooo happy when people at RW stop insulting others and posting mean, malicious digs and so forth... so tedious so tiresome. It is very clear to all of us that some people have incredible anger at others, and certainly may have some type of grievance, but to make this type of post solves nothing and throws ugliness in the faces of everyone else who has to read it. Either solve it somehow: by arbitration, mediation, talk and work it out, agree to disagree (politely) or get over it... because constant name calling is disruptive and unproductive. I'd really like to see this type of venting end. Refugee 12:22, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

I've taken to assuming that everyone acting maliciously is drunk and just ignoring them. Apparently, there was a really bad batch of scotch in May. The only person I really don't like is JimJast. Ty 12:31, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, you seem pretty easy-going. I don't dislike anyone there, in fact I have fondness for quite a few people. It's just that the animosity being expressed makes me feel uncomfortable. I think I am just too thin-skinned for controversial forums. So I'll probably stick to reading at RW and not write much of anything. I actually had a few things I was working on but the fear of being met with hostility or ridicule causes me to pull back. ah well. peace & love. lol. Refugee 12:40, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Just have fun and pop in every now and then to say "Hi". Ty 12:51, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Complaining about incivility is probably the number one way to attract incivility to you. Armondikov 12:52, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps. But, at the same time, what other choice is there? This whole, almost continuous flame war on RW has waaaay outlived its usefulness (since it never was useful anyways). But at the moment, it's more like an old, married couple arguing over something petty and stupid than it is about arguing over anything of actual value. We have moderators, and that's a start. But the next step has to be a return to a common, professional civility. Punky McPunkersen 13:03, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

If the mods actually do anything. The thing about it being like an old married couple is that you're so used to it that you don't see it as wrong, so it just continues unopposed. Armondikov 13:08, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Excellent post Punky - that's what I was thinking too. ADK, I'm not worried about incivility directed towards me so much as running into it over and over again on random pages directed towards others. Just getting a bit tedious, ya know? Refugee 13:10, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

"Refugee, you are an annoyingly perpetually cheerful authoritarian fascist aspie virgin nerd, who takes the internet too seriously, and ignores the great heroes of the past." </joke> Ty 13:15, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

You didn't have to disclaim that as a joke. It's pretty much on par with what is now acceptable. Armondikov 13:23, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Reeemembeah, Ah ahm frohm thah Sowth, so Ah try tah be nahce fah tha edeetores ah femeeenine persuaseeahn. Its ah culturuhl thang. Ty 13:27, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Refugee, there is no hope for two reasons. Firstly, I complain about the impoliteness/incivility, and get multiple editors responding that politeness/civility are not important, are just my personal values and have no objective validity, etc., etc. Secondly, if you look at the batch of moderators elected, some of them may well be among the major offenders in this area, so unlikely the current batch of moderators will do anything about it either. Maratrean 19:27, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

I find myself internetting less and less these days because I don't want to be dragged down to the gutter level of argument that prevails therein. I mean the whole internet, not just RW(W). Rrose Selavy 21:33, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

All I said was that it wasn't a core part of what you would want to call "Rationalism", but civility is concerned with style and presentation, not information content. I did say, however, that it was an important and useful tool in discourse and, well, it's also a key part of the Don't Be A Dick commandment. I don't think there was anything about it being worthless due to its subjectivity. Armondikov 10:34, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

I don't think RW is any worse than anywhere else. OK, so maybe I'm so trivial that no one bothers to be rude to me but, in general, if you don't provoke then the worst that happens is that you get called a dick. Sure it would be nice if we could all just get along but, back here in the real world, RW is about as even mannered as my Monday night poker game. Jack Hughes 16:02, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

At the risks of flogging a dead horse, my position in the debate with Armondikov and Jack was as follows: rationality is not just about evaluating individual beliefs or arguments. It also extends to the maintenance of habits of thought and discourse which encourage the formation of rational beliefs/arguments, and the identification of irrational ones when they occur. (This is a perspective similar to virtue ethics, or even more related is virtue epistemology.) Such habits are not just individual, but also communal. I agree that the immediate rationality of a belief or argument does not turn on how politely it is expressed, but I think standards of politeness are important to the establishment and maintenance of those individual and communal habits (or virtues) of rational thought and discourse to which I referred.

I have also argued, not just that politeness is good for rationality, but furthermore that politeness is good more generally. I've been intentionally a bit vague about whether that goodness is ethical or just pragmatic (I would say both), because I don't want to tie my argument to a particular (meta-)ethical theory. Danfly interpreted my position as arguing that politeness is good-in-itself in a deontological sense, and that as an adherent of utilitarianism/consequentialism he would reject that deontological argument. On the contrary, I argued that my defence of politeness as (ethically) good is not specifically deonotological, because its goodness can also be defended from a utilitarian perspective. I have also been arguing the value of politeness with Eira; her latest contribution suggests she sees politeness as inherently culutrally relative and subjective, and thus of questionable worth. But, although I agree there is a culturally specific element to politeness, I think there are still certain transcultural universals (e.g. avoid aggression, try to attack the idea rather than the person, avoid negative hyperbole about others, etc.), whose existence she does not realise.

I don't think RW is the cause by the way, it is just a symptom of a much larger cultural problem. But, if it wanted to, it could take a stand and try to rise above the lowest common denominator. Yet, although it conceives itself as doing so in many other areas, in this particular area it is unwilling or unable to do so. Maratrean 09:28, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

So, how are you going to implement this? Seriously, saying that life would be so much nicer if people were nicer is all very well but what are we supposed to do to implement this change? How are you going to stop Marcus? Ban him for life? OK, so that's an easy target although I rather like the guy (sorry, Marcus). If you start banning for incivility then you're going down a path that will, as far as I'm concerned, destroy RW and change it into a very dull and lifeless place. If you're not going to ban then what is the penalty?

In short this 'why, oh why, can't people be nice' is just wishful thinking. Life doesn't work that way. Jack Hughes 10:26, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

I don't think MC's incivility is a big problem. He may be incivil, but he is on the outer in the community. The problem for me is actually with the people at the core of the community, the leadership. By which I mean, the old crats, the current moderators, the RWF board, etc. They need to lead by example and actively try to be more polite in their own behaviour. And, I think where they are not leading by example, the other leaders need to be open in criticising those failings, and hold each other to a tougher standard than they do at the moment. It is the behaviour of the leaders of a community who most determine its culture, not the behaviour of outsiders such as MC (or JimJast, or Lumenos, or RobSmith, or LowKey, or myself). Outsiders can be as polite as we like or as impolite as we like, it makes not much difference to the culture of the community as a whole. RWs problem is that the leaders don't lead well. (And, don't start claiming there aren't leaders, because there always are, whether you want to call them that or not.) Maratrean 11:12, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Those fascists should be removed from the site completely to facilitate the coming of a new glorious republic! --86.45.3.123 12:45, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Dammit, Maratrean, stop being right about everything, and more eloquently than me. Educated word Phantom Hoover! 08:38, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Flogging of undead horse

MC wouldn't be much of a problem if people like Nutty Roux weren't always defending him--Brxbrx 13:34, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

I wasn't thinking of MC or Nutty Roux - actually there seems to be a feud and hard feelings amongst others and I keep running into random insults posted in discussions that I could really do without. And JackHughes, you are right, it doesn't help anything to say "oh if only people were nicer to each other", there's nothing I can do about it at RW, or any other internet site, or in real life. I just have to deal with it, and accept it, Still, I always wish... but anyway, I'm done complaining, just needed to vent I guess. No point in continuing now. lol :p Refugee 14:20, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

I'm not "always defending him. I've been critical of his abusive behavior. I've also, like others, recognized that he's contributed in other ways, including accurately describing some of RW's problems. Your suggesting that I somehow have anything to do with MC being a problem is as unsupportable as your failure to justify it indicates. Why do you keep bringing my name up like I'm some kind of villain? My first interaction with you was you popping up on my talk page to call me a dick and troll. You moved on to subtle and not-so-subtle character assassination. What gives? Nutty Roux 14:40, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Listen to the Roux. He is wise. --86.45.3.123 14:56, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

I popped in to your talk page that day because I was quite put out by your attack on Ty. It was uncalled for, and out of place, and just the sort of thing this site doesn't need. What has Ty ever done to you, exactly? He may not care anymore, but that more or less cemented my view of you. You know, maybe I just missed it, but you've yet to give an apology for your actions. All you did was complain that people were complaining about you. I like what Armondikov said to you

Here's your crat intervention: grow the fuck up and get a thicker skin. If you want to attack others, then don't whine if people call you on it.

--Brxbrx 16:15, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

I see. So an edit to my userpage accurately describing Tyranus' behavior and another admittedly inappropriately vandalizing his userpage cemented your view of me so much that you've been villainizing me for 2 months, including blaming me for other people's behavior. I don't apologize for what I put on my userpage and frankly it's a lot less objectionable than some of the things people have been saying to and about me and others here. I didn't call Ty any names. I simply described my impression of his obsessive behavior and inability to restrain himself from sticking his nose into other people's business. That sentiment has been echoed by others here - I'm sure you noticed some of the lengthy conversations because you injected yourself into them. You seem to exhibit the same attention seeking behavior minus doing anything productive like Ty does. I believe I have apologized for vandalizing his userpage (if I haven't it goes without saying that it was wrong and I'm sorry for doing it), though I think you carrying a heavy grudge for so long is petty and childish. I complained because people like you were trolling me, calling me names, edit warring me on my own userpage (!) and talkpage, and unnecessarily exacerbating the situation. I guess you don't remember doing any of those things because of course I deserved whatever whatever abuse a bunch of strangers to the situation dished out. My request for intervention had nothing to do with thin skin because, and I'm sure you knew this, I don't care what negative things people say about me in the heat of the moment. I did care that RWW was being used as an attack site. But everyone but you moved on. I am put off by you continually coming after me like I'm the worst person on the wiki. Saying you like Armondikov's unhelpful response pretty much sums up what I thought your approach is. Nutty Roux 18:18, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Gentlemen, gentlemen: [3]. goes for both of you. Ty 18:53, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

I did care that RWW was being used as an attack site. RWW being used as an attack site? More like some people who can dish it out to others but can't handle getting the same back in return. Maratrean 04:44, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

To paraphrase Eddie Izzard

It's just slowly collapsing, like a flan left in a cupboard. It can't even schism, since there aren't even clear factions; everyone just hates a large fraction of everyone else. Educated word Phantom Hoover! 14:38, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

It's not that bad. Human and Psy. Human and Nx. MC, but maybe that might get dealt with. Where else is the hate? RationalwikiwikiUndergroundResistor 16:43, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Certain editors have made clear that they hate me. Maratrean 10:09, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Ooh, leaks

I wish they weren't banning him, it looks like they'll be an epic saga for modern times. Entirely made up, of course, but epic nonetheless. Educated word Phantom Hoover! 10:17, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

I think, to be fair, given that there was a Conservaleaks, there should be an RWleaks as well. Maratrean 11:26, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Right.... And who's e-mails should be leaked, and what would you like to see? Mind you, there isn't some seekrit cabal somewhere. In fact, there is NO cabal! Punky McPunkersen 12:21, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Well, there's the old forum and its hidden section... -- Nx / talk 12:24, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Well, Conservaleaks seemed pretty indiscriminate, so I would suggest indiscriminate leaking as well. How about all emails between RWF board members? I have no idea what will be in them, probably nothing much... but I'm sure if one goes over them with a fine enough comb, one can find something...

But yeah, copy of RW1.0 would be nice. Philip Rayment has posted a couple of extracts from it online, but I'm sure someone must have a copy of the whole thing... Maratrean 12:26, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Leaking the RWF? DO you really want to be bored to death by our e-mails? Seriously, there is nothing incriminating in the RWF's e-mails. To the contrary, they are devoid of excitement at all. Punky McPunkersen 12:30, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

If there's nothing incriminating, you won't have any problem with leaking them, would you now :P Maratrean 12:40, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Being as how I think e-mails are private (and I restate my position against Conservaleaks here), I most certainly will not break the Board's trust and leak anything. Punky McPunkersen 12:51, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

If that troll wants to "leak" stuff, there's no damn way it should be hosred on RW. It's not like CP hosted the Conservaleaks. Let him find his own damn bandwidth to make shit up for no good reason expose the truth for all to see. --RationalwikiwikiUndergroundResistor 14:53, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

He DOES have a place for that. Remember his old anti-RationalWiki blogspot that nobody cared about? Conficker 23:20, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Do we even have the old forum anymore? 72.38.27.39 17:43, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

We probably have a backup somewhere, but it's not operational any more. -- Nx / talk 20:09, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

If you read this Marcus, here you go. I will be glad to read your little fan fiction the leaks that will destroy the evil fascists of RW.

I can definitely confirm that RWF emails are some of the most boring ever composed. Armondikov 18:00, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

My Observations

I'm not MC (Honestly, I'm not) but I find the reaction to this whole thing to be utterly bizarre. I am at heart a skeptic, but I find MCs exposed conspiracy to be highly explanatory. He is right - there is no way he could have lasted so long without inside help. Foster was one of his great patrons for example, and I find it interesting that Foster is the one most eager to prevent their publication. Something is really amiss here. Foster doesn't have a particularly strategic mind so obviously he hasn't thought through how bad it looks to prevent MC the right to upload the documents he is talking about. It makes him look guilty and it makes MC look like he posseses some explosive material. I'm inclined to believe him at this stage, if for no other reason than because of the reaction of certain senior users to this scandal. I've a feeling, in time, the truth will come out. Marcus isn't stupid, whatever else you may think about him. I bet he is plotting something magnificent, and that when he offers the incontrovertible proof, I've a feeling there will be a lot of 'I'm leaving and never coming back' in its wake. 46.7.150.116 22:34, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

I take an opposite standpoint: I seriously doubt he has anything significant. If he does, then I'll place my bet that it's all outdated and from years ago. MC is just looking to stir shit like he always does. Will you see LANCB as a result? Maybe. But I certainly doubt he's got anything relevant up his sleeves. In fact, conversations like this one we are having about "Does he or doesn't he have these documents?" are a far bigger threat, IMO, because they produce a fear of the unknown. And the fear of the unknown is the greatest fear. Conficker 23:17, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

That is an unsurprisingly lame, short sighted, and uninspired interpretation. It is obvious MC had patrons, a quick perusal of previous attempts to ban him proves it so. It is also obvious that he had some communications with some members off site. It is reasonable to assume he was partially incited in some way. Don't put your hands over your ears just because you don't like the answers. 46.7.150.116 00:22, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

We know who his patrons are, and they're seriously entrenched so naming names won't change a damn thing.--Brxbrx 00:41, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Lame? Uninspired? Nah, rather I take a more rationalistic and realistic approach. So what if he had off-site communication with members of RW? So have I. SO have others. But do you really think that he's got anything damning and, more to the point, if you look at it from a TK-esque aspect, do you really believe him to be truthful and not deceptive? So far as having hands over my ears, it's more about my unwillingness to listen to paranoid morons than it is about me "not liking the answers." Conficker 00:45, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

More to the point, pretend his exposé is a note from Human bitching about Nx, for example. So what? We all know Human and Nx don't get along. DO you really think that any shit he could stir would go further than nonsense such as that, where he's just re-hashes old rivalries? Conficker 00:48, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

That is very well put, Conficker. You may infect my computer if you please--Brxbrx 00:54, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Don't worry guys. Very soon MC will bore of releasing vaguely realistic (perhaps even real) emails and will revert to pulling it out of his ass.--ThePundit 15:48, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

I think this is all a little like the Soviet politburo reassuring everyone that everything is going to be fine days before the collapse of communism. It doesn't take a genius to work out that Marcus has some explosive material up his sleeve - I'd even bet that he possesses emails of a cataclysmic nature. The fact that Foster is to desperate to prevent their publication screams complicity to be honest. I'm sure all of us RW watchers will be aware of Foster's consistent defence of Cicero, and even the praise he dished out to him at various times. The man is guilty as sin, you don't have to be a genius to work that out. 46.7.150.116 15:52, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

No, it's more like watching a David Icke forum put on a foil hat about something that's likely nonsense. Next you're going to tell me that America is secretly run by reptiles and start promoting Loose Change. Seriously, BoN 46#, I think you are making a mountain out of what is sure to be a molehill. As someone who could be considered an "insider" to RationalWiki affairs, I assure you that nothing that goes on behind closed doors could be irreparably harmful to the Wiki. On the contrary, I'm so unconcerned by MC's threats that I cannot wait to see what lies he pulls out of his ass so that I can have a good laugh at the foil hats. Conficker, I agree with you here. Punky McPunkersen 19:04, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

I'm not seing the desperation to prevent further leaks. Also, even if MC released a million emails explaining in detail a foster-led plan to destroy the wiki, nobody would believe him. Because who believes Mc?--ThePundit 16:37, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Of course you can't see it, because you are too busy forcing your hands against your ears and screaming something maddening and stupid. 46.7.150.116 16:51, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

lol MC. But seriously, why not just pull the flippin' trigger, put us out of our misery, end the suspense, and do it now?--ThePundit 17:02, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Marcus Cicero: What's his strategy?

For those who have no lives at all and want to debate what he's doing. Is it a bait-and-switch? Is he holding out for a reason? Is he a madman? Or a hidden genius?--ThePundit 17:05, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

I am not MC. He is holding out to build up suspense, is probably politicking a lot behind the scenes. And he is definately a genius. 46.7.150.116 17:15, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Politicking? Nah, more like bullshitting. And anybody who buys that he's got something up his sleeve is certainly a conspiracy nutter, IMO. Punky McPunkersen 19:06, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

It appears MC's strategy is to create a few socks and debate himself until someone notices him.--Brxbrx 17:16, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

...?--ThePundit 17:39, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

... ... --ThePundit 17:39, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Damn, you're good.--ThePundit 17:40, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

His strategy is much more simple: he's trying to turn RationalWiki into a bunch of conspiracy theorists so that, in their paranoia, they turn on each other. Very clever, but easily fought against. Punky McPunkersen 19:08, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Gosh, you're right.--ThePundit 19:15, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

LOL! The fucking thought of Goonie being some clever manipulator and key to any conspiracy is utterly laughable. Of course Goonie is confident that nothing happens behind closed doors. Who would tell him anything? So he swaggers on here and denies the facts as presented, and then proceeds to claim that nothing untoward is happening. Well folks, thats because Goonie is not privvy to those facts, and neither shall he be. RW is run by a secretive cabal who engage in some thoroughly fucked up shit. I wouldn't be surprised if MC was in touch with the US department of homeland security right now (They take internet hacking/hacktivism very seriously now since wikileaks) Marcus does have something up his sleeve, and when he eventually chooses to reveal it, Rationalwiki will cease to exist. 46.7.150.116 19:21, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Yup, sure. not like I talk to Huw on a regular basis. Or Nutty. Or Ace. Or P-Foster.... Son, go back to the David Icke forum. Punky McPunkersen 19:30, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

One should not even reply to people who reference the FBI Incident in that manner. ListenerX^TalkerX 19:48, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

DHS seldom handles cases of hacktivism, that would mostly be FBI, NSA, or if diplomatic leaks are involved DoS, or if military leaks DoD. And Rationalwiki is not Hacktivism.--ThePundit 19:53, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Would it help if I mentioned that I have reported RationalWiki to the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services? Conficker 19:55, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Excellent, the results of my endeavors have satisfactorily harmonized with the forecast I generated and acted upon in accordance to a detailed analysis of the situation at hand, and the desired goals that were stated by key stakeholders and interested parties at outset of the events that previously unfolded. Ty 20:16, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

My confession, by P-Foster

The BON above is right, and, seriously, I can no longer take the strain of holding in the terrible guilt that I feel. I love the RatWik community, and yet I have been plotting against it for years. Feeding MC insider information, pointing him at various weak spots where his trolling might do the most damage, and all this while slowly building up my cover and credibility with the community so that I could get myself elected moderator in order to get rid of him so that, with the website thinking it was safe, I could finally strike against it when its defences were down. In my shame and self-loathing I have deleted all the relevant e-mails from my hard drive, but perhaps it's time for the truth to come out, so that my collaborators, and they are many, and they should all be shaking in their boots right now, might be revealed for the traitors and cowards that they are. This thing goes deeper than the LJ, deeper than the mods, and even deeper than the cabal _{there is no cabal}. When the e-mails are released and we are freed by the truth, we will surely tremble at how big this thing is. Really big. Really fuckin' big.

May goat have mercy on my soul. PFoster 21:59, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

*gunshot* Ty 22:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

speaking of summary executions, what happened to the BoN?--ThePundit 00:35, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Damn youse! Damn youse all to hell! Speakerface 00:56, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

A clever strategy, Foster. Employ ridicule in order to conceal the truth. Get your creatures to ban dissenting voices along the way. Slowly make the site more homogenous, backslapping, and co-masturbatory. Subtly eliminate all possible pretenders to the throne. What do you get? A faggoty circle jerk where ageing losers make the same jokes they did 6 years ago. Fuck that. Oh yeah, fuck Goonie as well, who the fuck does he think he is fucking banning me? This site is a butress to the Rationalwiki cathedral, its badly managed, has no raison d'etre (Other than being a bit like a math club for the socially inepty Tyrannis. Fuck you all, I hate you all indiscriminately. 86.44.234.240 19:52, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Marcus, at one point in the above speech your PFF (Percent Fuck Factor) reached 24%, or approximately Rod Blagojevich on a good day. --ThePundit 20:46, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

So, you were Special:Contributions/46.7.150.116. Not that it wasn't obvious. Btw, Goonie is the closest this site has to an owner, so he can ban your sorry ass if he wants to. -- Nx / talk 21:13, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

holy shit

How deeply entrenched is MC, exactly?--Brxbrx 19:52, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

Like you wouldn't fucking believe. You're only hearing the beginning of it now.

Bye guys! it was nice knowing you. I had a good run. But I really have left now. RW will soon be no more. Pity. But this is the price you pay. CP now have incontrovertible proof. There will be a lawsuit. It will make internet history. 86.46.173.211 19:59, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

Good bye MC. “Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened.” -- Dr. Seuss.--ThePundit 20:24, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

Ah MC, if only you weren't so full of it... Maratrean 08:31, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Says the crank who wrote a 330 page bible and hundreds of blog posts and wiki entries filled with made-up people and place names, an entire mythology, and the same kind of apologetics in favor of his fake religion and fake god that permeates any discussion he can remotely inject it into. Nutty Roux 14:32, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Yeah Nutty that's exactly what this is about. --Ullhateme 22:57, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

"a BoN outs Brxbrx's account on Conservapedia"

Not buying it. Some BoN came and trolled TWIGO, calling out Brxbrx for allegedly TWIGO'ing himself. If Brxbrx had done the right thing -- told the guy he was full of shit and had no idea what he was talking about, this little shitstorm in a teacup would never have happened. Instead he blanked the edit and started crying like he was Superman and his Clark Kent-seekrit identity had been revealed. He realllly couldn't have played it worse. RationalwikiwikiUndergroundResistor 03:44, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

No, I agree. As Ghengis put it, it was the best possible example of Streisand Effect.Looks like Conservapedia didn't buy it, however, and blocked the trolling BoN instead. But Brxbrx did handle it in the worst way possible. Hell, it he had just ignored it from the get-go, it would've made no difference and we wouldn't even be talking about it right now. Punky McPunkersen 04:21, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Gee, sorry guys--Brxbrx 05:44, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Meh, it happens. I'm certainly not upset at you or about this whole episode. This is just one of those "now you know for the future" scenarios, IMO. No real harm was done and I see that the person trying to out you, not you, got blocked at CP. Punky McPunkersen 05:51, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

So

What has gone on? Ty 02:01, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

So much, and yet none of it was really that out of the ordinary. Well, except for the part where I gave up being Post-Conservapedia. Punky McPunkersen 12:02, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

I saw... Ty 12:06, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi Ty! :-D Missed you. Where have you been? Refugee 17:46, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

He's been doing some sex tourism in Latin America. Ask him about "the resort" with the "healer"--Brxbrx 18:09, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

I've been in Honduras. Got my deep diving(33m) certification, went spearfishing. @Brx -- Sure, on an island with an AIDS epidemic, makes perfect sense. Ty 18:59, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

You heard it here first, folks: Ty is a bug-chaser--Brxbrx 19:09, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Up and down

Is it just me or is the up/down voting on this page entirely unpredictable? I really can't see a pattern of what gets good scores and what doesn't. Yeah, they're a lot more middle-of-the-road than the RW WIGOs where it's either everyone loves it or everyone hates it, but some times there are just unanimous ups for no apparent reason. Just a thought. Armondikov 16:58, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Well it seems RWW's visitors don't approve of senseless Rob-bashing, and approve of MordantMaenad taking up the mantle of moderator. --Brxbrx 17:18, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

I use up good thing, down bad thing, yellow, meh. Ty 18:45, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Lolcow?

I swear, if I would have been drinking milk while reading this:

“”Human introduced a motion to create within the Foundation the office of server administrator. The server administrator would be subordinate to the operations manager and be given server access to perform various duties in accordance with various rules and guidelines. The motion further provided that this office, when created, should be offered to Nx with the understanding that if he accepted, any past misuses of server access on his part would be forgiven and forgotten by the Board. Motion was carried unanimously.

—http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/RationalWiki:RationalWiki_Foundation/2011_08_14_minutes

it would now be running down my nose and all over my face now. Wtf? Was there a peace conference I missed? --Ullhateme 13:10, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Actually, if I remember correctly, Nutty Roux was the one who added the blank slate addendum. Though Human agreed it was a good idea. Punky McPunkersen 13:26, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Human opened the discussion and introduced the motion, but there was a lot of debate in between. ListenerX^TalkerX 14:51, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

I think NR and Human desired a precedent so that their own past actions could be glossed over. Then again, I can't read minds.--Brxbrx 15:49, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Or it could be because without Nx tech problems accrue very rapidly. Or they could actually be trying to make amends. Or all the board members are all sock puppets. John Childermass 01:04, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Nah, looking at the transcript, it looks more like there was concern that, even if we offered the position to Nx, there'd be enough hard feelings that he might be forced from taking the position. This was proposed to remedy that. Punky McPunkersen 13:07, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

What the hell are you people reading? This is obviously a case of "we're going to establish real official rules that you need to follow, and you will only be judged on violations of those rules in the future." It's insanely and patently obvious that the intent was to notify that Nx that they are going to establish real and official rules regarding server access, and that future abuses of server access will not be tolerated, but don't worry, we won't be cocksuckers and enact them ex post facto just to hold you responsible for rules that were not actually in force at the time. Everyone has to see a conspiracy theory... --Eira 18:06, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

The main problem is that, when Trent first gave Nx server access, he didn't, according to himself, lay down much in the way of rules (other than, of course, "don't break the Wiki!") because he didn't want rules to get in the way of something technical that might need to be done, nor did he want someone with server access to have to wait, what, weeks(?) for Trent to get back to them and give them permission to do some crazy Wikifu (as it was Trent's Wiki at the time). As time has gone on, however, and as the Wiki has changed ownership to the Foundation, it has become clear that, in order to protect our fiduciary interests, the Board of Trustees needs to have some oversight of the technical support services provided to RationalWiki as various current and former members (and particularly Eira, Human, and Nutty) expressed concerns over abuses of the server access. Therefore, it was decided that we'd make all technical support positions become official positions that are beholden to both the Operations Manager (who would have an direct supervisory role) and to the Board (who would have a less direct supervisory role) and that we'd let Trent, as Operations Manager, draft some rules for holding a technical support position on the Wiki with guidelines that both addressed Trent's concerns about not stepping on the toes of technical support when there's a job to be done and the Board's concerns about abuse of server access. The overall details are still being hammered out, however. Punky McPunkersen 11:40, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Why do I find that to be so funny? Ty 18:23, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

There was no conspiracy theorizing here, I was just wondering why two people that call each other assholes everytime the encounter each other are all of a sudden nominating each other for offices - or well in this case one guy the other. Felt weird and I lol'ed at the time reading it, and I really had the feeling like I may have missed some grand peace treaty between the two.

Oh, and if Nx says yes to it all, will he also be responsible for RWW and the EvoWiki? --Ullhateme 19:40, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

The sekrit RWW Cabal is contemplating an independent server sometime in the near future. But currently, yes he is for here at least. Ty 19:47, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Hey pUnkyMcPUnker thanks for laying out all the info in your post above. I actually read it (I usually don't read any posts longer than 4 sentences (lol) limited attention span and all, but I understand now. If TmT never said "do this" or "don't do that", then Nx wasn't constricted (is that the correct word?) by any restraints and so he can't be faulted for anything he did. I hope he will stay as tech guy 'cuz I think he's gots tons of tech-type know-how...wish I had some of that myself. Refugee 22:02, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

oh crap I decided not to be so lazy so I looked up "constricted" on dictionary.com I think the word I needed to use should be "restricted" (definition: confined; limited) or "constrained" (definition: forced, compelled, or obliged).. but I can't join those two words into one. blah. Refugee 22:07, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

The wiki, she is down?

Yes? RationalwikiwikiUndergroundResistor 02:17, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Yes. Ty 02:21, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Blog says still up, but I keep timing out. Ty 02:24, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Ah well, less distractions from my pet little project... I am trying to write my own Java disassembler/decompiler/whatnot... had a look at ASM and BCEL, didn't like them that much, so reinventing the wheel... Maratrean 02:32, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Back but ultraslow for me. Ty 02:35, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

With no edits for ~1 hour. Ty 02:36, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Must be Karajou running a DDS. RationalwikiwikiUndergroundResistor 02:38, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Again!

Yet again. Ty 02:57, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

The state of affairs

Watching and contributing to the whole Maratrean-HCM, I'm getting the feeling that a number of people need the constant fight with an enemy they will call troll - even if there's no reason to do so - just to have a good feeling about it. Thoughts? --Ullhateme 13:24, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

... and now you know why I want to delete WIGO:CP, or move it to a separate site. Tyrannis^{An iron, yet caring fist} 14:05, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

No, because I don't see the connection there. The witch"troll"-hunts will continue... --Ullhateme 14:19, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Sigh, despite the official stance of no parody/vandalism, it took until this year for the how-to guides to be deleted. I've found that the mindset of the primarily WIGO:CP editor tends to be really disruptive. Look at the "trolls". Then look at what part of the site they come from. Tyrannis^{An iron, yet caring fist} 14:25, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

What a delightful thing to say. You should go put that on your RW userpage next to bragging about how many edits you've got changing footnotes to references and adding/removing templates one by one. People will want to know exactly what you think. Nutty Roux 17:09, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Probably just as much as they want to hear what you think. And if you find some time, could you through that stick away, it already smells like dead horse. --Ullhateme 17:57, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

People want to hear what I have to say about things that matter a lot more than they want to see a whole category of users get pot shotted by someone both disconnected and arrogant enough to brag about an edit count consistently mostly of pedantry and tedium. Nutty Roux 18:08, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Amazing how well you know other people, especially considering you were the only one to be bothered by the edit count in the first place... --Ullhateme 18:18, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Amazing how little you have to say when you yourself had to ask whether you were on trial here. I'm just pointing out really ironic arrogance. Attack me all you want. You seem to enjoy it. Nutty Roux 19:06, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Nutty Roux, you are dismally bitter and full of spite. Either you're a fool to think you can improve things by acting like a human turd, or you let your viciousness get the best of you and you're just sating your need to insult and denigrate.--Brxbrx 19:15, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Yay! Another of our best! You're an inspiration Brx, really you are. My god how tightly you've got your finger on RW's pulse. 2 petty little shits jump up and down and tell the big bad Nutty Roux how nasty he is when he calls poor little Ty arrogant. Children. Nutty Roux 19:24, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

The trial thing was joke you thickhead (no that's not spelling mistake). You know what I find really funny here? Ty almost never complains, but if he does you complain that he complains - which is funny because you complain all the time, just about people not real issues. Pot and kettle are right at the door. But of course we, that have no problem with Ty letting off a bit of steam are the children here. I don't know if I should laugh or facepalm... --Ullhateme 20:22, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Oh god. Now you're really reaching. Go read what both of you wrote. It's down there a few lines. There's a whole conversation. Misrepresenting things so openly to call me a ... thickhead ... is pathetic. And I complain about people, but not real issues all the time. Err, what? Tell bold lies and someone might actually believe you, but it's not going to be anyone who's actually been paying attention. Maybe one of these days you'll get someone else to join your little anti-Nutty parade! How fun! Nutty Roux 04:50, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Oh crap Captain "You're it!" is back. So I lie - aha, whatever makes you happy. You bitch about brxbrx even after you got him/her (rightfully) desysoped and for some reason still attack him/her for being annoying - which is a non-issue because he/she won't stop being annoying in one day. Maratrean you attack because … he made up his own religion and everytime you ignore that a kitten dies or something? No actually you never address what the guy actually says, you just attack him for a relgious belief (however crazy that may be. Or Ty. one of the nicest guy's I've ever met, is arrogant because he has an opinion on something - how in the fuck do you justify you having an opinion on him not being arrogant the same way and amount for having an opinion on him - but wait! There's his edit count! Maratrean isn't alone in thinking that you having modship is a waste of user rights, the cursing I committed upon reading that in the election results I couldn't even put on RW. I honestly don't see you bitching about anything else! Show me diff or something, but except of those three you don't bitch around.

But hey, now I'm a liar so you can ad another word to your list of smear words. Another label with which you can smear the people that disagree. Trolls, liars, cranks - all of them! Long live the ad hominem arguments, long life the association fallacies. --Ullhateme 08:06, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

It's not like like I'm sitting here scratching my head trying to come up with the worst thing I can say about you. You just lied about me. Right up there. That's not an ad hom attack. It's a specific statement of fact about specific behavior. I don't understand much of the rest of what you've written or why you're bringing Brxbrx up. Seems like you're just enlarging as you get farther and farther away from whatever your point was in jumping to poor arrogant Ty's defense. But what does shine through is what a truly great mind you are to accuse me of engaging in ad homs while you take unsupportably broad swipes at me without a single bit of evidence or an even basic understanding of who bears the burden of proof. And then you've got the wisdom to tell me to do your research for you. Bravo. That takes a lot of courage. But anyway, go pull your own diffs to prove your own affirmative claim that I only complain about people and not real issues. Nutty Roux 14:40, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

idiot --Ullhateme 15:51, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Ooh I'll play. Insensate motherfucker! Nutty Roux 17:02, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

How do I join this Anti-Nutty parade you speak of? Ace McWicked 05:26, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

They'd like it to be sort of like the human centipede, but between Brx and UHM's slim numbers they have to take turns being in back. Nutty Roux 14:40, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Ouch. I primarily edit WIGO:CP (around 50%). --Ullhateme 14:54, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

And I .31%. I have commented several times that there are 2 different communities at RW, both with different sorts of ideas about what the wiki should be. Your a philosopher, no? Edit the philosphy section. Tyrannis^{An iron, yet caring fist} 15:05, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

I do... and some politics… But I still wanna laugh at CP. Why the hell do I feel like I'm on trial now? --Ullhateme 15:17, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Oh, you aren't on trial. I'm just ranting because I look at RC and see little but bickering. Tyrannis^{An iron, yet caring fist} 15:33, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Damn right there's bickering! So, let's find something to bicker about, shall we? Hmmmm.... Goddamnit, Ty! You stole my CocoPuffs! How dare you steal my CocoPuffs! They were all I had to look forward to in the morning! I think you are nothing but a cereal stealing good for nothing! Conficker 07:25, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Serious Cereal Killer. Tsk Tsk.--68.11.159.162 07:32, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

If you ask me, the only thing needing to be killed is this whole conversation. So, with that said, what is everyone's favorite pizza toppings? Surely, if we must fight, we can fight over our tastes in food. So, who doesn't love pepperoni and mushrooms coated with habanero sauce on their pizza? Anyone? Punky McPunkersen 12:08, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Sounds good, but I prefer sausage to pepperoni. Tyrannis^{An iron, yet caring fist} 12:26, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Gourmet vegetarian pizza is the best (and I am no vegetarian)... Maratrean 12:28, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Mmm...Pepperoni and mushrooms. I have yet to eat that with habanero sauce, but sounds yummy!--만두 15:28, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Pfft, toppings ruin the pizza; I take mine straight. ListenerX^TalkerX 21:06, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Leave Maratrean alone

Okay, so my position is a little more nuanced than that, I just felt like referencing Chris Crocker. Maratrean is acting a little petulant, and he's making things worse for himself. That said, if nudity on his talk page bothers him, then we shouldn't put nudity on his talk page. SuspectedReplicant and Ace McWicked are acting like bullies ATM, and keep nipping at Maratrean. Both sides could end this right now if they'd just give up and ignore the other, but they aren't doing that. Is Maratrean right to complain so hard about the indignities he subjected to? No. SR and Ace aren't in the right either, and for a moderator to partake in the behavior he's supposed to stamp out is not good face.

I'd also like to take a minute to protest the calling of everybody with a complaint a "concern troll." Maratrean has some valid points and he usually expresses them in quite a civil matter. It seems people only hate him because his religion is perceived as "made-up." If you ask me, that's no different from all religions but then again I don't spend my days railing at Catholics or anybody that dares use the g-word. Finally, Maratrean has made many useful additions to the wiki, mostly concerning religion and philosophy. He seems very well versed in religion and he's rarely wrong. And he's nearly always incredibly polite. So lay off him, mkay?--Brxbrx 16:03, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Go fuck a light socket you woeful scumbag. Ace McWicked 01:55, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

So far, you've demonstrated yourself to be unwilling to resolve this conflict.--Brxbrx 03:12, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Damn straight. Ace McWicked 03:15, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Maratrean is rarely wrong? Praise be the Batman with that one! But on a serious note, people poke fun at him not because we precieve his religion as made up but because his religion is made up. When he first appeared on RationalWiki to promote his religion, he even admitted that it was a religion he made up for himself, and only recently has he gone on to defend it as anything but made up. Conficker 07:21, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

he even admitted that it was a religion he made up for himself, and only recently has he gone on to defend it as anything but made up — that may well be your impression of the course of events, but I believe it is mistaken. Maratrean 11:45, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

My concerns are more serious than that. Look, for example, at his postings at aSK. Whilst he might - possibly - have the good of the site at heart it is strictly on his own terms. He wants to turn RW into MaratreanWiki and is well on his way to doing so. He has made it quite clear that he wants to re-write the rules in his own image and, when a vote goes against him, he carries on as if he has won. His simple presence has stirred up more discontent, more HCM, than Marcus ever did and, all the while, he stands by as if butter wouldn't melt in his mouth.

So, sure, some of his concerns are "valid" - but then Marcus actually had far more valid concerns about the site. No, it's not the validity of the concerns that troubles me, it's the rationale behind raising those concerns. I don't hate him for having a stupid made up religion, I despise him for being the trouble maker that he is.

Let's take, as an example, the recent fuss over the arse photo. So, yes, Ace called him an arse by posting a photo which is a common meme on RW. Most of us would laugh it off. Most of us would accept this as part-and-parcel of the rough and tumble that is RW. No, not Mara, he's above all that. he has to take a high moral stand "in case visitors to his page are offended". Whilst the photo in question was a shade risqué it's borderline NSFW. There is no sexual content and only the most boorish prude could really take offence. Furthermore, Mara is keen to point out that a broad minded reasonable and cultured person like himself isn't taking offence - it's just these possible visitors to his page. Oh, think of the children! No, his taking offence was just another opportunity to stir up more trouble and, inevitably, he got his way. Two more postings in the coop. I wonder if that is how he keeps score, that and the number of long time editors who have recently left the site in disgust at the trouble he is stirring up.

So, no, I do not hate Mara for his stupid religion, I hate him for the intentional damage he is doing to a site I love. Bob Soles 09:49, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Bob, I only made a fuss about the pictures because when I removed them from my page people kept on adding them back in. If they'd let me leave them out, no fuss would have been made, no fuss, no cooping, no criticism, everyone would have forgotten about the thing by now.

Imagine you are talking to a stranger or acquaintance, and they suddenly start showing you photos of naked people. A lot of people would take offence at that — can't you see that? It's not necessarily the photo itself, in another context they may well have no problem with it — it's the context that counts. If I went around my office, and started showing all my coworkers photos of some naked guy's ass, there's a fair chance I'd be in a bit of hot water. Certainly some people would feel it was rather creepy. Now, if I invited people to a photography exhibition, and they read about it beforehand and knew it was full of naked guy ass, and they still chose to go, they would have no problem seeing that. Context counts. Maratrean 11:42, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Lol, I remember this one time, my manager showed me porn from his iphone, for no reason whatsoever. I was kinda creeped out, because his was in his mid-thirties and I was sixteen. Sorry, just slightly related story.--Brxbrx 11:49, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

I remember this one time, at band camp.... Punky McPunkersen 12:09, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

and once again Mara goes for the "think of the children" defence. No one is showing anything to anyone outside of a context - RW - where showing pictures of a naked arse is the norm. Context is, indeed, everything. No one is going to stumble across his talk page out of context. The long, long established context of RW is a certain robustness of expression. Mara, in his holier-than-thou way wants to preach to us about what we can and cant say. Evidently he feels - as the protoprophet that he is - that he needs to lead us poor heathens into the purity of his made up religion. Oh, the irony. Bob Soles 12:39, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

I never said anything about children, you did. If you go around showing adults pictures of irrelevant nudity, a lot of them are going to think that's creepy, not bringing children into consideration at all. As much as some RW editors wish, RW is not a universe unto itself, it exists in a larger global social and cultural context, which it can't ignore, especially when faced with social norms that are common across many cultures. Maratrean 12:52, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

If you go onto the RW talk pages then you should expect pictures which may offend. Just as you would on other similar sites (ED, for example). Indeed RW does not exist in its own universe. It exists in a universe where sites like RW have borderline offensive pictures on the talk pages. Think ED, for example. Oh, and, of course Mara chooses to misunderstand the use of the internet meme "think of the children". Typical deflection from the real point. Bob Soles 13:04, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Dear god. If you would just ignore it for the week and learn the value of slow reverts, we could move on. But no, you have to bring it up all over the rationalwikisphere. Just let it be and come back in a week or two. Sterile 13:05, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

So RW is like ED then.... nothing on the front page suggests that. Maybe it would make sense to amend the mission statement to make clear that one of RW's aims is to be like ED? Maratrean 13:16, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Is it too much for Maratrean to ask that there not be (what he considers) obscene images posted to his talk page? It seems a trivial request that others are turning into an opportunity for bullying. Waaaaay back when I was in junior high, there was a special kid (for what exact reason I don't know, probably autism), and he was terrified of human contact. A tap on the shoulder was all it took to set him off. So, people took it upon themselves too touch him over and again. One even hugged him, causing him to shriek in terror. This is kind of what we're doing to Maratrean. Can't we pay him a little respect? He's always been courteous towards us.--Brxbrx 13:47, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

They haven't even edited!

Yeah, but they weren't good faith accounts, and we really need some user name conventions anyways--Brxbrx 01:03, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

I agree. Someone wants to create an account to edit with, fine. Someone wants to create an account so they can spam RecentChanges, different story. Maratrean 01:08, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

So someone creates Recent Changes spamming accounts. Big fat hairy fucking deal! It's happened before and you know what happened from those accounts? NOTHING!!! People who make accounts like that usually make the account and then throw it away. What, may I ask, is the point in blocking a throw-away account? The answer: THERE IS NONE! Conficker 13:00, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

It actually helps. Block them with account creation disabled, they won't be able to create any more unless they get a new IP. For some people, getting a new IP is easy, so this won't help that much. For others, they can't work that out, and it really stops them, or adds sufficient difficulty to the task to make them give up and go away. Anyway, RC spam is harmful because it makes RC harder to use for people interested in substantive changes, and yesterday's account spam included accounts making defamatory allegations against RW users, e.g. one of them claimed a couple of RW users liked to rape dead children. Maratrean 21:59, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Yes, it's easier to hide malicious vandalism in the noise generated by spam. There's patrol logs and watchlists as a form of defence against that, but that's not fool proof. Armondikov 01:23, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Human's sock

Forgive my ignorance, but how do we know for sure that Kumquat West is a sock of Human? Quijibo 19:37, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

1) It's an admitted sock 2) We know with 90% certainty - Human was creating a lot of socks around that time, and its style is identical to his. Liveware Problem 19:44, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

OK, I was just making sure that it wasn't a stereotypical "YOU'RE A SOCK OF SUCH AND SUCH" accusation. Quijibo 19:46, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

I just spoke with Human and mentioned his mistake. He'd forgotten he already voted. Way to assume bad faith. You really are an asshole, Blue. Nutty Roux 23:45, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

I assume good faith with just about every other user besides Human. I have every right to assume bad faith with a user like Human, who has admitted to trolling RW in a previous case and not giving a shit about its procedures. Liveware Problem 03:04, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

And I have no issue with you thinking I'm an asshole, Nutty. I think the same of you. Liveware Problem 03:08, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

I can practically hear you gritting your teeth. I like that about you. Nutty Roux 03:19, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Aww, you're so sweet~~ Liveware Problem 03:32, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

I think, it is a good idea, that people refrain from voting with any of their socks, for the avoidance of doubt. Although it would still be technically fair if they were to vote with only one sock, and not their main account, it does not encourage confidence in the voting process. (And if people lose faith in the voting process, well if everyone else is stuffing ballots, I might as well too...) If people follow this advice, similar misunderstandings will not occur in the future. Maratrean 08:58, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

That's difficult because some days I consider SuspectedReplicant to be my main account and other days I consider Armondikov to be my main account. But there's no way of enforcing it as people make quite committed and hidden socks all the time. Even in the "official" elections I bet multiple people have socks who have passed the eligibility criteria. It's why voting is just silly online like this anyway. Armondikov 14:53, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

I have a sock who meets the qualifications for board member, and that is all I will say. :) Tyrannis^{An iron, yet caring fist} 15:13, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

If you make the voting criteria strict enough (e.g. at least 100 edits, at least 90 days old), you will rule out of voting, not all socks, but most of them. Only a minority of sockists would be dedicated enough to meet such criteria. Maratrean 19:13, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Three, if not four, of my socks meet that criteria. Does that mean I get three (or possibly four) votes for being dedicated. 84.93.31.163 20:38, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Now, if we were to make the criteria

• Must have been a member for more than a year
• Must have made 100 substantive edits within that year

That would sort out those who have had a proven long term investment in RW. 84.93.31.163 07:06, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Define substantive. -- Nx / talk 07:33, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

There is no way to completely eliminate the possibility of sock-voting. But, reasonable efforts can be made to make it harder (like edit count and account age criteria); that won't eliminate sock-voting, but it will make it less common. Sometimes, the perfect is the enemy of the good. Another suggestion, is maybe have a voting rights review committee (let's say the mods ex officio) — if you believe that an editor who meets the voting criteria is actually a sock of another editor who also has voting rights, then complain to the committee, and the committee can by majority vote remove their voting rights. But only if the committee has a good faith belief the user is a sock of another user who already has voting rights, or the user met the criteria in some improper way, eg. by performing 100 senseless minor edits... Maratrean 09:10, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

This is perhaps the only area in which I'm an iron fisted authoritarian cunt. If we're having a public vote and there are voters Trent doesn't recognize I would totally support checking the server logs to confirm they're not sock voting. Or even writing an extension that confirms this without any need for Trent to violate our privacy by looking at IPs. And then calling them out for public humiliation if they are. I view sock voting as one of the most fundamental abuses of our presently shitty democracy that it should be dealt with as harshly as it evidences contempt for all of us. Each person's voice should be counted as any other's. Nutty Roux 14:43, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

But before all the public humiliation, we need to assume good faith, right? I mean, it could be accidental, we don't know. Liveware Problem 18:27, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

While I agree with you in principle, LP, if someone accidentally uses their sock to vote, and others call them on it, then all they need to do is admit that it was an honest mistake and, based on that, the community can and should dismiss the remainder of the controversy. But if someone uses a known sock willingly, is called out on it, and doesn't apologize, then I agree with Nutty that they should be subject to some sort of sanction. IN this case, it is Human, after all. It isn't as if we're biting a n00b by lambasting their blatant use of a sock in an important vote. And given that the sock hadn't edited in a long while prior to this vote, I'm even more suspicious of his intent. Conficker 15:58, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Human apparently said his double-voting was an accident privately to Nutty. But even if that were true, there was no public apology. You're right to be suspicious. Liveware Problem 18:58, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

That would be because he can barely stand going near the place and asked me to fix the mistake. Do you publicly apologize every time you make a mistake? I'll start asking you to do so now that I know you live up to such high standards of accountability. Nutty Roux 00:51, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

I have never voted with a known sock of mine, but if I ever do, please feel free to ask me to publicly apologize. Liveware Problem 02:15, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Good lord how can ppl keep track of everyones socks. And who has time to be more than one person online? Oh, wait.... nevermind. Refugee 15:58, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

WIGO RW Voting

I'm never sure how to vote for the WIGO RW items. I think the idea is, if it's a good mention of what's going on or link, you vote up, and if a lame mention or link, vote down. But the problem is I sometimes find myself voting down if I don't like the action that is mentioned, (someone resigned, etc.) and voting up if I do. I don't think that was intended. How to best vote for the Wigo's... ? Refugee 15:56, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

If I like what is is describing, I vote it up. If I don't I vote it down. If I don't care, I hit the yellow-orange bar. Tyrannis^{An iron, yet caring fist} 16:08, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Quite literally, nobody knows what the WIGO arrows mean. There have been several discussions about it. It boils down to each individual having a different conception of when to vote up or down. Liveware Problem 22:26, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

You know that thing on the current series of QI where they hold up the "?" sign for "nobody knows"? I'd hold that up for most WIGO:RW voting. There seems to be no discernible pattern whatsoever. Armondikov 15:57, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

No, I don't. Tyrannis^{An iron, yet caring fist} 22:30, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Mod slate

So we've got

• Genghis Khant
• Weaseloid
• Nutty Roux
• Nx
• Pi
• AD
• Blue

heading into the next big election. I think the styles and philosophies of Nx, AD and Blue are the most closely aligned in their idealist liberalism. I haven't seen Genghis do much in general, let alone as a mod; Pi has been sporadically active but probably more in line with AD and Blue in terms of philosophy; Nutty Roux is difficult to pinpoint, perhaps somewhere between pragmatic conservatism and structural idealism; Weaseloid seems to be mostly conservative but open to pragmatic considerations.

"Idealism" I define as wanting to push the site structure (rules and modi operandi) forward to create a more equitable status quo, with the opposing term "pragmatism" meaning wanting to fit the structure of the site to the status quo. "Liberalism" refers to willingness to enforce the site structure, while "conservatism" means an unwillingness to enforce rules and structure ("hands-on" versus "hands-off," as it were).

I know I'm oversimplifying the issues and I probably mischaracterized several people, but those are the general trends I see playing out over the next few months. (If no one resigns, that is.) Liveware Problem 04:01, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Aren't you Blue?--Brxbrx 05:09, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

I am Liveware Problem, the Oncoming Storm. Yes, Blue. Liveware Problem 05:48, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

I agree with you mostly. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1... Tyrannis^{An iron, yet caring fist} 10:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

I would only disagree on the labels: "progressive" instead of "liberal" and "anarchist" or "antinomian" instead of "conservative." It is unfortunate that we have to take the "idealism" or "pragmatism" of a moderator into account. ListenerX^TalkerX 20:01, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

How would you describe yourself? Just curious.Tyrannis^{An iron, yet caring fist} 20:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

I do not really fit Blue/Liveware Problem's spectrum. I care little about the presence or absence of specific rules or structures so long as the Wiki actually functions, which at the moment puts me outside both the "idealist" and "pragmatic" camps. As to the "conservative" vs. "liberal" divide, I am also outside both camps as I think that a moderator's task is to prevent and stop conflicts rather than "enforce the site structure," but also that moderators ought actually to perform this task. Invoking the snowball clause on developing turdblossoms, as Blue has done with several Chicken Coop discussions, is a good start. ListenerX^TalkerX 20:56, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Interesting. Tyrannis^{An iron, yet caring fist} 21:01, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Isn't "I don't really care so long as it works" pretty much the definition of pragmatist? Armondikov 11:53, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Not as Blue defined it (wanting to match the "structure" to the current practice), since our current practice has the Wiki at sixes and sevens. ListenerX^TalkerX 20:24, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

At what now? Tyrannis^{An iron, yet caring fist} 20:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

I asked myself the same thing. Here is what I found out: Wikipedia: To be "at sixes and sevens" is an English phrase and idiom, common in the United Kingdom. It is used to describe a state of confusion or disarray. Refugee 13:22, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Blue's choice of terms are self serving and facetious. There is only one spectrum on an internet website, and that verges from authoritarian to libertarian. The authoritarian members think it is necessary for there to be strictures, rules, constitutions, codes of conduct, and the ready enforcement of the above like a load of humourless imbeciles trying to maintain order on the internet. It is self evidently retarded but these people get such a kick from their positions of authority that they literally don't know what else to do; furthermore, they have managed to convince themselves that they are in fact virtuous, and not egotistical, manipulative, and power craven. Combined with the arrogance of AD, it creates a whollely unpleasant mix which results in bans, the crushing of dissent, and the persecution of those who might stand up to their conspiracy.

On the other hand, there is a libertarian faction, which is represented by Genghis and Nutty in the council, but it also includes most of the old hands who actually know what RW is about. They don't care for these bullshit and self serving regulations, furthermore they are aware of the sheer boorishness of taking the internet so god damn seriously. Any and all of the HCMs on RW are caused by the social ineptitude and drama whoring of the membership base; while it is convenient to blame a few dissident for all the problems, it is self evident that these problems exist because of certain insecurities within the body politic. The removal of a prominent site dissident has done nothing to restore site harmony - nor will it. So long as the member base desires confrontation and is willing to wage petty ego wars there will be chaos. Out of this chaos can come one of two things; enlightenment or repression. So far, RW has chosen repression, falsely believing that the strict enforcement of rules and regulations will lead to a more equitable and harmonious community that will in turn be more productive. This is obviously false and has been demonstrated to be so. There is a revolution in full swing, those who do not see it are both blind and stupid. (Maratrean and Brx were warned; the latter is such an oblivious fool that he won't see it until the gun is pressed against his forehead, so to speak) The moderators have taken it upon themselves to exercise what they see as a 'mandate to lead' - far beyond the initial purpose of the institution as set out by the oblivious Trent.

It is egotistical, it is self serving, and it is disgusting. Eventually it will fail. Eventually I mean to see it fail. I will not rest until it fails. It is a grave injustice, compounded by the fact that nobody will allow me to criticise, comment and adress the disgusting sacrifice to liberty that the new order represents. There are those of us who resist in our own little way, and will continue to do so until the institution is no more and until Rationalwiki is free once again.

MARCUSCICERO

Refugee's opinion: I think that is an interesting and insightful analysis. Thought-provoking (for me at least) :p Maybe others have already considered all that you say here, but it's my first time thinking about it. I agree with some of what you say and am thinking about the rest, but one thing I do feel for sure, I believe you should have the right to state your opinion and speak your mind. Refugee 16:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

It is highly amusing to hear Marcus complain about others boorishness of taking the internet so god damn seriously. Ace McWicked 21:06, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Troubling statistic

There are only 31 articles out of 5,479 content pages with a higher pageview count than the coop (around 42,000). Unfortunately, Special:MostRevisions only seems to support the mainspace, but I think that would be equally shocking. Just saying. Armondikov 21:01, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

The coop easily has over 3000 revisions by eyeballing. Thats ~3 times as many as the most edited article. Tyrannis^{An iron, yet caring fist} 21:50, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

(EC)Yeah, the Coop has been a mixed blessing but, on balance, I feel we're better of with it than without it. Of all the content resolution systems RW could have had it's been about the best. Better by far to let the boils fester in the open than hidden cabals behind the scenes.

And, of course, for the last six months, we have been having a massive discussion about what we are, what we do and how we do it. Some of this has been played out on the Community Standards pages but, for the most part, it's been played out in the Coop. Even now I feel that the dust is beginning to settle. We're finding our voice again and, if not exactly singing from the same hymn sheet, at least we've agreed to sing together. Maybe I live in cloud cuckoo land but I'm not as despairing as I was a month or so back.

Now, if that statistic still holds true in, say, six months... well, we'll have to see, wont we. Bob Soles 21:53, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Well, I suppose it isn't as troubling if you just think of it as another Saloon Bar but with the gloves off. Since we don't generally ban anyone (though dear GOD that is probably a cause in itself) things rarely come from the Coop, so it's probably best off not thinking of it as an administrative abuse board and more of an off-topic forum for those special people who need it. Armondikov 22:20, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

You do know that I'm operating constantly behind the scenes, exploiting people's paranoia and divisions, and slowly putting the finishing touches to the satirical novel I'm writing about RW? Wait till you see all of that converge in an orgy of destruction and fire. 86.47.71.96 14:43, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

And here we are, some time later, and the fuss has all died down again. The coop still gets a little traffic but the HCM index is well down and all is well with the world. Well, until the next time. Bob Soles 16:57, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Fanfic

Shame that, Conservapedia fan fiction is a very amusing concept. Well, it would have been 2008, now it's just tragic. Armondikov 18:01, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Sadly, FanFiction.Net has a policy against "celebrity fics," which Conservapedia would surely be counted under. Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" ^{(cover your eyes!)} 18:13, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Now if only it could develop a policy against a few other things too... Armondikov 23:15, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

My younger sister thinks BBC!Irene/BBC!Sherlock fics should be banned. Liveware Problem 23:22, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

I wrote a fanfic once. It was bad. That is all. Tyrannis^{An iron, yet caring fist} 23:24, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

And I wrote a fanfic, and it was good. That is all. Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" ^{(cover your eyes!)} 19:23, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

"Moderator moderates" WIGO

I have one problem with this: Nx may have moderated, but, he came in to do so hours later, after the conflict had died down. Thus, you could also argue that he was doing it just because we all know Ace and him don't get along and was, thus, doing it to be a prick. What sayeth the mob on this issue? Also, I'm not saying we need to change the WIGO, I'm just more interested on the peoples' take on this. Punky McPunkersen 01:52, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

I for one find the 9 hours after the fact to be wrong. If he had done it then and there I'd have less of a problem. But 9 hours after the fact is more than a bit sketchy. Tyrannis^{An iron, yet caring fist} 01:55, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Exactly. No to mention that when asked he never said he was moderating, he said he was 'playing" (he in fact said that later - he never explained his actions). Ace McWicked 02:05, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

He was only present later, and he removed Ace's rights because he's demonstrated a tendency to abuse them. He said playing as a joke about Ace's excuse for trolling--Brxbrx 02:53, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

So Nx abused his rights to show me up for abusing mine at some previous date? Sounds reasonable. Ace McWicked 03:02, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

In my opinion, 2 wrongs don't make a right, especially at the moderator level. Before TK died, he was trying to harrass, threaten, and extort people outside of RationalWiki (your truely included), which was wrong. Would the RWF then be justified in harrassing, threatening, and extorting people like CONservapedia's Karajou or, even, the person behind the MarcusCicero accounts? Absolutely not. It follows that just because Ace may have acted like a troll in the past doesn't give Nx any right or justification (especially as a moderator in a position of trust on the Wiki) to "play games" with his power. Punky McPunkersen 08:50, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Nx didn't abuse his rights--Brxbrx 09:31, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Well, that certainly settles it, IMO. If you say he didn't abuse his rights, than I am totally convinced. Punky McPunkersen 09:38, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

I'm glad to see you're finally coming around. but seriously, you keep saying that he has but has he? He dessysopped ace and pfoster. they had it coming, and he's supposed to do stuff like that as a moderator. I know nutty and weaseloid never wanted mods in the first place and therefore prefer to think of the position as impotent, but that's not at all the case. Also, when Nx was elected people knew what they were in for. He's pretty transparent about how he thinks the wiki should run--Brxbrx 12:32, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Again, I'd be far more convinced that Nx didn't abuse his power if he hadn't come in hours later to "moderate the situation." And insofar as your second point is concerned, while people may have known what they were doing when they elected Nx, it also went hand-in-hand with Nx accepting the responsibilities of the position. Part of the responsibility of any position is to not abuse the powers you are granted with that position. I'd argue that, while Nx had some minor incidents as a technical administrator of RationalWiki, he never actually did anything harmful with that position (as everything controversial he did was easily reversed). Contrast that with pasting the "sysoprevoke" on someone, there are only a few people on the Wiki who can undo it and it should really only be used if there is a consensus that they should have their rights taken away or if, for example, they are in the midst of abusing their rights. Coming in half-a-day late to "moderate" either makes one incompetent as a moderator or an asshole. Punky McPunkersen 13:45, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

I didn't want moderators in the first place but I don't think the position should be "impotent" as you put it, but one of limited power. You'll struggle to fine me saying moderators should be "impotent" or anything remotely like it. Needless to say, this is yet another instance of you misrepresenting my position because I'm apparently your ideological enemy. Why is it so easy for you to be so consistently dishonest, Brx? I'm asking very seriously. You've mentioned medication. Do you have some sort of issue with mental capacity we should be aware of? Nutty Roux 14:54, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Nx blocked a user who wasn't involved in any immediate dispute, refused to answer for his action and had no consensus from the community. According to this Brx, he abused his rights. Ace McWicked 19:44, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

The rights removal was temporary, to ensure that you would not interfere in the coming democratic process to strip you for a longer period. Brx was unable to unblock himself and this was not the first time you've done this. Remember Maratrean? You have a history of abusing your user rights and Nx was insuring that you wouldn't continue to do so while moderators were deciding how long to ban your dumb ass. Nx came in hours later because he wasn't there earlier. Otherwise he would have acted earlier. He was late to the fight but the fight still happened, it's on camera, so he stopped Ace, though he was unfortunately too late. --140.198.56.127 20:18, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

I didn't know Nx was the only Moderator. Ace McWicked 20:29, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

He's not. How is that relevant?--140.198.56.127 20:49, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Because there were other mods about at the time and not one sought to take the action Nx did 9 hours later. Ace McWicked 20:56, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

And who were these other mods? Nutty Roux? Weaseloid? Of course they didn't want to take action. They are terrible mods.--140.198.56.127 20:57, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

And AD. Ace McWicked 21:02, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

I do believe AD endorsed Nx's actions...--140.198.56.127 21:08, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Post hoc. Ace McWicked 21:09, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

So AD acted too slow. The truth is Nx was acting within his rights as moderator. And besides, why do you even need your rights?--Brxbrx 23:06, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Please reread the moderator rules and tools page and identify how Nx was acting within his rights. Ace McWicked 23:22, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Can RWW ban Brxbrx, please? RationalWiki proper can be as tolerant of its dregs as it wants, but there's nothing requiring RWW to just quietly accept every goddamn troll that discovers us. Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" ^{(cover your eyes!)} 06:29, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

As this used to be your Wiki, Hans, I'll leave the honors to you. Punky McPunkersen 07:28, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Half a dozen of us have tried. Immediately undoing the block gives Nx a reason to obsessively refresh RC. Here, watch. Nutty Roux 14:20, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Nx is no longer a User rights#Police. Problem solved. Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" ^{(cover your eyes!)} 17:49, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Great work TK. -- Nx / talk 17:50, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

I don't really believe it's appropriate to ban people from a site like this under the circumstances, I just like toying with the idea because I find Brx to be a disgusting creature after he began his petty and dishonest vendetta against me and Ace. The more regular people here can do whatever they want. They know the culture better than I do. Also, thank you for your very kind words, Nx. I know I've been critical of your cavalier tech/mod and rhetorical styles, but if I've gotten inappropriately personal with you I regret it and am sorry. I'll be mindful to not do it in the future. Nutty Roux 18:39, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Speaking of Encyclopedia Dramatica...

I don't get it... Armondikov 19:05, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Hipster=Liberal? Tyrannis^{An iron, yet caring fist} 19:11, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Linking to ED is almost as bad as linking to TVTropes but for the opposite reason. Liveware Problem 20:16, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

There, there. It'll be okay, just get some bleach. Tyrannis^{An iron, yet caring fist} 14:01, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

I've created a new wiki (Check this before Nx hides it from recent changes)

http://mcwiki.wikinet.org/wiki/Main_Page

Check it out. Work in progress. Vive la revolution! 86.45.238.238 02:15, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Great. Somewhere for Nutty, Ace, and Human to hang out where they won't bother us--Brxbrx 02:36, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Oooh, a rival! Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" ^{(cover your eyes!)} 04:07, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

What did I say about the self projection and you bringing me up out of the blue to slag me and the others you decided to hate for disagreeing with you? I was spot on. Stop it. Nutty Roux 09:40, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

I was not surprised to see that Martin "nice guy" Zachary is revealing his true colours over there. Bob Soles 10:10, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

And how did I "do that", exactly? Maratrean 10:23, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Hans, I'd particularly like it if you came onboard. Your experience would be appreciated and cherished. @NX, somebody has revealed your name. I am not happy about this. If you want, I will delete the edit and lock the page. You're a cunt but you still for some reason don't want your real name revealed so... 86.47.72.206 11:57, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

You should take it down. It's not relevant to the page or your mission. Nutty Roux 12:24, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

I pressed random page seven times and got Blue four times. Also, the ads are making my Peerblock go nuts--Brxbrx 17:02, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

MCwiki

I, for one, would just like to say that Eira is a fucking moron. It's enjoyable watching her meltdown, too.--Brxbrx 13:57, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Aaaaand stuff like this comment is one of the reasons so many people think you're a cunt. --Ullhateme 14:23, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

And here is what Liveware Problem reverted. It's not that, it's that you enjoy it that makes it look like you're a cunt. It's a waste of good editor, not something to be happy about. --Ullhateme 21:14, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Whoops! I was on my phone, I didn't mean to revert that post. Liveware Problem 21:46, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Regarding MCWiki

Anybody agree with me that we should do a MCWiki McTemplate for our articles similar to RationalWiki's Conservapedia template? You know, "For those living in an alternate reality....." type shit? I think it'd be McFun! Punky McPunkersen 18:20, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Do you think it will survive long enough?--Andrew the banned 21:31, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

No. When it stops creating ripples of drama at RW, everyone will lose interest in it, MC included. WeaseLiciouS ^{Bite Me} 21:50, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Me

I didn't LANCB, I'm having a wikibreak because the site is shit now. Crundy 14:10, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Oh, Okay, that's much less depressing. Tyrannis^{An iron, yet caring fist} 14:13, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

It's 2012

How do I make a new one? (Proposed text: Somebody gave Osaka Sun keys to the RationalWiki twitter account.) Tobul Oltarolin 08:49, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

click edit as usual then paste this <vote poll=wigo320>Somebody gave [[Osaka Sun]] keys to the [https://twitter.com/#!/RationalWiki RationalWiki twitter account.]</vote> at the end. leave out the <nowiki></nowiki> bits. ^{— Unsigned, by: Rennie McGreet / talk / contribs}

I had actually just wanted somebody to make the new section for me. But thank you. Tobul Oltarolin 04:58, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Human's emails

IANAL (and I never intend to be one), but the rough idea I've gotten from a quick bit of research is that if I put a copyright notice on the emails I send, it's technically illegal for them to be posted - though I wouldn't get any damages if I actually sued. I guess I'll have to put that in whatever I have to send Human from now on.

Okay, so what I did with the edit warring, locking and suppression was not the best way of proceeding, but can we all see that what Human did was seriously sad? Liveware Problem 04:30, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

You don't need a copyright notice, thanks to the Berne convention, everything is copyrighted by default, even without a notice (this is something a lot of RW editors need to learn) -- Nx / talk 07:16, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Well, yes. But copyright isn't really about protecting privacy. It's more about protecting your intellectual ownership in cases where you expect to get some commercial gain. I very much doubt that that would cover personal emails.--Bob M 10:37, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

If I Assume Good Faith, then I see Human wanting to have a discussion out in the open and not behind closed doors. And, as has been said elsewhere, the identity of the e-mailer was not necessarily obvious until Blue/you got all shirty about the situation. That all said, posting the e-mails was probably somewhere on the spectrum between ill-advised and malicious. Sending them in the first place prolly wasn't a great course of action, for that matter--why Poke It With A Stick two days after the election, instead of waiting to see if there was a need to bring up any issues. Given how little Human has done on the wiki in the last 6 months, I really saw us as having 6 de facto moderators and one guy who might show up every now and then to say "hi" and insult some less-popular users. RationalwikiwikiUndergroundResistor 04:37, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

{edit conflict+500 error}

Yes, before I thought Human was an asshole. Now I think he's a bitter and untrustworthy asshole. The wiki would be better off without him. It was a real dick move of him to post those emails (and fucking repost them after it was quite clear you didn't want him to). I absolutely agree with you- though it's a shame my support won't get you anywhere. Take it up with Trent. Maybe you can convince him to take a more active hand in this, and get rid of Human. Maybe he's contributed in the past, but since I've been here he's been nothing but trouble.--Brxbrx 04:42, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

If I wanted to take myself down to Human's level I could publish more random emails we've exchanged. I could publish emails from a certain editor who says some very nasty things about Ty despite this editor's insistence that his hands are clean in his feud with another editor. But, you know, I still observe the common courtesy of treating private correspondence as private. Also, the idea that the recipient of an email "owns" it is absurd - what if I published the various real names and RL contact information I got from emails? My mind is still kind of boggled by this whole affair. That's why I reacted so strongly, I think. Liveware Problem 05:51, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

If that certain editor is who I think it is, it seems they've now become BFFs with Ty, so there isn't really a point in doing that plus you'd be on their shit list forever and it's not worth it. -- Nx / talk 07:16, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

It was a purely academic example. I meant I could have published them at the time when that argument was a big thing, maybe that wasn't very clear. I don't plan on doing anything now. Liveware Problem 07:29, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Nah, don't agree with the general sentiment echoed here. Human was sent a mildly insulting and condescending email, and then another very insulting email by someone who should have known better. The greater offence is the sending of the emails, not outing the content of those emails. Human was rightfully elected and should not have been told in private how to perform his task, and he should certainly not have been encouraged to resign. To be honest if someone had sent these to me, especially the second one, I'd be taking some action. Whether that action would be releasing the emails or not I can't say, but I'd certainly not be pretending that I wasn't offended and appalled by this conduct. Pinetree 05:53, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

That's another mind-boggler for me. Everything I said, in terms of "insults," has been matched and exceeded by Human to me and countless others over the years. But I strongly disagree with Pinetree. I think Human has lost the trust of more than just me by posting the emails. Liveware Problem 06:07, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

"I wish you kids liked each other more. I swear I don't know where I went wrong." — Garrison Keillor. ListenerX^TalkerX 07:10, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

I have to agree with RWWUR. You should've waited until Human did something stupid (and he probably will). -- Nx / talk 07:16, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Also, please don't commit wikisuicide Blue, you and AD are the two most effective mods, and it would be a shame to lose you. -- Nx / talk 07:52, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

The wiki would be better off without him. Brx, Human has done more for this wiki than you ever have or could. Whether or not he is personable is another question but such statements just betray you complete obliviousness. The rest of you - Blue, Nx et al, are just as bad as Human. What are you complaining about? You're all the same. Ace McWicked 09:31, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Such a revolting hate fest. Man, you guys have nothing else going on do you? Ace McWicked 09:37, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Lol. Liveware Problem 12:20, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

irony-lolwut, to be exact. --Ullhateme 12:56, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm just as bad as Human? Oh well, I guess I should start releasing some emails too. After all, I'm the biggest asshole on RW, I have to live up to that title. -- Nx / talk 14:30, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Ooooh! If you do release e-mails, Nx, then please release our exchanges first. After all, it would reveal to people the true nature of who really runs RW/W. Punky McPunkersen 14:36, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Speaking of releasing e-mails, any news on the MCWikiLeaks front? RationalwikiwikiUndergroundResistor 15:50, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

The latest news is that MC is following our mature and rational disourses and laughing his bollocks off. Rennie McGreet 16:22, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

All's quiet on the McWiki front. Liveware Problem 17:48, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Blue's earlier attempt to get the list of who voted struck me as needless politics, enough to make me drop her down a couple places on my own ballot. Now, seeing her fire off antagonistic emails to Human makes me actively dislike her. I know I persecuted Human myself, but I never emailed him, because there's just something incredibly personal about email. (Cue Blue saying that the "personal" nature of it means Human shouldn't have shared them...) Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" ^{(cover your eyes!)} 20:15, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

I have only ever pursued those things in good faith and for the good of the wiki, despite some ill-judged followup behavior. I know, in general, the people with the most "friends" get elected on RW, but I have never been one to make wiki-friends in the hopes of winning an election. I don't need your friendship, Hans, but I would like a rational analysis of my efficacy that goes beyond gut emotional response to an ill-timed, ill-judged private insult. For example, sending the email was a Bad Idea, I don't deny. But Human caused the HCM by publishing it. Liveware Problem 20:25, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

If it becomes the policy of the mods to work behind the scenes and not in public and not transparently, then count me out of the RationalWikisphere. I'm increasingly finding you all creepy. Sterile 05:45, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

I liked what you were wearing today Sterile but next time can you wear tighter trousers? Those grey slacks at the back or your cupboard would look nice. Ace McWicked 05:55, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

You're funny. Maybe I'll send you an e-mail about it. Sterile 06:03, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Moderators shouldn't send emails at all? Liveware Problem 07:03, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

All hail the new cabal (there is no cabal). -- Nx / talk 07:11, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

All that jealousy and hatred is going to give you an ulcer, Nx. Blue, do you see what little support you had going up in smoke? All this smugness and faux outrage isn't going to serve you any better. I would have been happy to (more or less) continue supporting you, but seeing you go to such lengths as to actually threaten the site because you didn't like the election results was a shocking wake up call nobody but your cheerleaders here can ignore. I'm heartened seeing the community send a strong message with this election. Nutty Roux 15:17, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

"Threaten the site?" Are you delusional? Liveware Problem 17:49, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, and the message was "We are a stupid bunch of fucktards that can't see two seconds into the future." And that's not because of Human's positions, that's because how he behaves. --Ullhateme 16:44, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

I don't understand a single bit of what you said here but it looks like you're trying to make a point. What are you saying? Nutty Roux 18:38, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Having been a part of the original cabal (that' wasn't), I can tell you this isn't a cabal (that isn't). Sterile 15:28, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

The really funny part about this is Human's hypocrisy. This is the man who claims that "if I get sent an e-mail, I can do what ever I like with it" - or words to that effect anyway. This is also the same person, who voiced his objection and discomfort in the original cabal blog, when Jessica started leaking the ZB mails. He wasn't happy that private mails were being leaked, even though by his standards, she was perfectly entitled to do so. Funny that. --Psygremlin 16:21, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

As my own two cents, I think all that's happened is that Blue and Human proved just how good they are at trolling eachother. Say what you will about Human, but if Blue hadn't sent him that hostile e-mail to begin with, nor had she thrown a fit when he posted it with her name redacted (after all, until some claims they sent it, there is no proof that the e-mail ever happened) then it follows this whole HCM could've been avoided from the getgo. Not that I agree at all with Human's response. In fact, I would've just deleted the e-mails and ignored her if I had been him. But neither of them is clean in this case and, on the contrary, they are both completely in the wrong. And anyone who thinks there's a "right side" to this HCM that doesn't draw a similar conclusion is foolish. RussianalWiki 16:31, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

And if that girl hadn't worn a skirt that guy wouldn't have raped her. Yeah, Blue had the audacity to write an e-mail to him saying she wanted at least to pretend to get along with him not to cause a shitstorm, that's just unforgivable. (But again, locking the talk page was wrong) --Ullhateme 16:44, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

I do think there's potentially a right side to this. On the one hand, parts of the emails were nothing more than her aggressively trolling Huw. If she had constrained it to that, he should have just ignored her and hoped she'd go take a nap or something. On the other hand, in the overall context of (a) her actively trying to goad Huw into conflict he hasn't expressed any interest in while referring to May 2011 in a way that could be interpreted as a threat against RW, not just a personal beef, (b) RW still being vulnerable and more divided than ever, and (c) this election being a referendum on 8 months of this new state of affairs in which an appreciable segment of the community continued expressing a preference for the old rather than the new, I think there's a good argument to be made that people need to see what a person who thrusts herself into the public light obviously wishing to expand the moderator role has to say about RW, not Huw himself. Nutty Roux 18:38, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Utter bullshit, as I have tried to explain on your talk page just now. Liveware Problem 19:54, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE LET THIS BE A LANCB!!!!

Another one of Abd's "I thought this was supposed to be RATIONAL Wiki posts, but with a subtle hint at the end. Fuck, I just can't stand his nonsensical screeds anymore: it's like trying to read Atlas Shrugged. Punky McPunkersen 14:44, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Amen to that. Tyrannis^{An iron, yet caring fist} 14:48, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Oh man, I just found this old revision of his Wikipedia talkpage and looked at the header at the top. I never even thought Wikipedia got that hilarious! Punky McPunkersen 15:06, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia can be quite funny, they just hide all the humor in project space. Tyrannis^{An iron, yet caring fist} 15:22, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

YES!!! I made it happen, too! Punky McPunkersen 15:26, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

It's a good job he never found this place. Rennie McGreet 16:37, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

That would have required that he link-tree and read through some of the more interesting articles or clicked "Random Page" several times instead of just horse-blinding himself into the few articles single article on which he considered himself an expert and RW lacking/contradictory/close-minded. --Seth Peck 17:22, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

He's not gone yet, and there's still that risk. Tobul Oltarolin 03:47, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

He's still going on and on and on and on... Tyrannis^{An iron, yet caring fist} 20:20, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

*sigh* Tobul Oltarolin 03:47, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

So

Are there any formal rules, or just "don't wigo your self"? Copperhead 20:35, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Don't wigo trolls, parodists or Lumenos. Weaselicious ^{Bite Me} 07:49, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

What? WiGOing Lumenos is one of my favorite past-times! Punky McPunkersen 12:38, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

And never anything even vaguely positive. That'd be down-voted into oblivion! Armondikov 18:56, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm still unsure if you vote Up when it's a Wigo subject you agree with, or just a good wigo, vote Down if you don't like the subject, or if you don't like the wigo. So I just vote everything up. I figure if someone took the time to write it, we should encourage them. But then again, when it's something I don't like, if someone left RW that I liked or whatever, I can't vote that up. So, who knows? Refugee 00:55, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

She's movin' slow.

... actually, she ain't workin' at all, now. RationalwikiwikiUndergroundResistor 01:51, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Same. Tyrannis^{An iron, yet caring fist} 01:52, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Yup. Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" ^{(cover your eyes!)} 01:58, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Soo... throw a party or something? Ty^Complain 01:59, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

I love parties...--만두 02:01, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Internet parties always feel forced. We can talk about parties, though.

...Anyone want to hear what happened at my high school graduation party? Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" ^{(cover your eyes!)} 02:07, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Sure why not? Ty^Complain 02:07, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Bwahahaha! Walked right into my trap!

...I didn't go :-D Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" ^{(cover your eyes!)} 02:17, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Why didn't you go? Refugee 04:33, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

I didn't go because it was I wanted to spend that special day with my family, rather than with a bunch of people I barely knew. Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" ^{(cover your eyes!)} 05:10, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

I don't recall even having one. Ty^Complain 02:18, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Stop making me feel old, dammit! Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" ^{(cover your eyes!)} 02:27, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

It's okay, I didn't have much of a childhood so I barely ever get pop culture references from anybody. Ty^Complain 02:30, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Why didn't you have much of a childhood? Refugee 04:33, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

This makes me sad. And I thought I DIDN'T HAVE A CHILDHOOD.--만두 02:37, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Hugs Dumpling! Refugee 04:33, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Also, stop making me feel sorry for you guys. I only have one hug to spare a day; don't guilt me into giving out a second one. Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" ^{(cover your eyes!)} 02:55, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

I want a hug too! Refugee 04:33, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

...It's okaaay~...I'll just wait till the next day for a hug. :3--만두 03:06, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

And I can sympathize with you all, my childhood was also very sad. Refugee 04:33, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Is there anyone here that had a perfect, happy childhood? Anyone? Jesus, we're so messed up. Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" ^{(cover your eyes!)} 05:09, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

It's tomorrow in Australia; tomorrow afternoon in New Zealand. Tobul Oltarolin 03:40, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Is it just me, or has the "Toolbox" part of RW's sidebar gone? Is Trent fussing with something, or is that just something that gets dropped when the page takes too long to load? Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" ^{(cover your eyes!)} 03:18, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Not just you. Things are really weird for me, none of my gadgets are working (that I know of) and lqt and the pointless polls look strange. And in history the "updated since your last visit" thing is not highlighted, the archive boxes are borked.... Tobul Oltarolin 03:38, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

hmmm...? Seems ok now. http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/rationalwiki.org - Results: It's just you. http://rationalwiki.org is up. Refugee 04:30, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, all fixed now. Tobul Oltarolin 04:31, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Yay! whoopie-whoop-whoop! :-D Refugee 04:34, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

The CP cleanup project

Anyone care to predict the outcome? Will they manage to decide on the full 600+? Tobul Oltarolin 03:11, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

The top 10 or so will be voted on, and Ty and Blue will ram the other 590 deletions through. Everyone will fight, half will remain deleted, and half will be resurected. --Murray 03:27, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Actually, I could give less of a fuck about cleaning out CPspace. It will eventually wither away and die naturally. Liveware Problem 04:32, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Define 'die'. Tobul Oltarolin 04:37, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Except articles can't wither and die unless someone deletes them. They're there, constantly accessible and clogging up space. Armondikov 23:31, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Since every version of every page is saved, deleted or not, I fail to see how deleting these pages frees up space at all. And I was talking about use of the namespace itself. Liveware Problem 02:37, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

IMHO, it needed to be done. What was so different about funspace? Copperhead 02:46, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

I had an idea once to write a book about Conservapedia. A lot of these pages would have been the research material. But I can't be arsed writing stuff so, um, whatever. Rennie McGreet 08:05, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Most of the ones that are being deleted are pretty low on factual content, links, dates, etc. I think the more substantial ones will get kept. Weaselicious ^{Bite Me} 13:26, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

If your book was going to have a chapter on anangrams of Schlafly's name, and red telephones to User:Conservative I wouldn't have read it. The good stuff is still there. Besides, you could always get a sysop to undelete the stuff, save it to a document, and give it to you. RationalwikiwikiUndergroundResistor 13:54, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

I think the main problem is that CP has log since disappeared into irrelevance, so it's hard to see what the potential readership would be outside of the RW hardcore. Rennie McGreet 14:16, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

In the wider scheme of things, CP was always irrelevant & always will be, which is why I couldn't support a book on the subject. For RW readers, it's a good example of how badly a wiki can potentially be run, as well as the loopier end of the American religious right wing. But it's not notable or typical enough to deserve serious mainstream scrutiny. Weaselicious ^{Bite Me} 20:28, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Time to move on from CP and become a wiki with more focus on the mission. CP was the impetus to create RW, but it's not so relevant anymore, in my opinion. On the other hand, there are some important bits of history that probably shouldn't be lost. Refugee 21:29, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Pretty mcuh agree with Refugee here. Much of the CP-space can be deleted. but stuff that actually has a purpose in relation to RationalWiki should be kept. Specifically, I think articles that address CONservapedia's views on things like evolution or other mission-related content. A lot of what was and is in CP-space is old junk. Punky McPunkersen 12:50, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Transfer ownership

I am not even sure it is that great of an idea for RWW. At the very least it needs to be worked out where the domain will be registered, and where it will be hosted. There is not point in transferring anything till that has been worked out and financial arrangements made. It will at least $30-$50 up front costs. 174.50.69.13 17:05, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Why don't you share your thoughts with Goonie, then? He's the one who needs to hear them. Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" ^{(cover your eyes!)} 20:30, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. At the very least, just tell me to go fuck myself instead of leaving me hanging and going "WTF?". Punky McPunkersen 12:46, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Do you have the $30 or so you need for domain transfers? Do you have a host in mind? Do you have the time and or desire to actually do it? I pretty much don't but if you really want to we will figure it out. Isn't it easier just to toss $20 at RWF ever few months and call it even? 174.50.69.13 04:58, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

A year ago I had all that shit ready to go. Hell, a year ago I was ready to pay the RWF whatever price it took to buy RWW since many members of RWF (who are friends of mine) thought RWW was "a waste of our precious resources." One year and many e-mails to you later, I have completely forgotten what host I had in mind (though I seem to recall it was Blue Host) and, yes, I do have more than enough money lined up to fund things. But, the only reason I wanted to purchase RWW was because I wanted to keep it intact and because members of RWF were bitching about it putting a drain on resources and I, not wanting it to die off completely, wanted to preserve it on some form. Fast-forward to now: I'll gladly earmark money I give to RWF to be used to pay for RWW. But, I'd like to be able to earmark it as a donation to pay for RWW, and not just fund RWF. I'd suggest a "DONATE" button on RWW that earmarks it for RWW's costs. Futhermore, I wish this Wiki had more technical support. I understand that the RWF castrated Nx of his rights on RW proper, but I doubt they'd care if we had more support people given server acces to RWW, nor do I think you'd care. To that end, there is a laundry list of things that the RWW community knows needs to be done on the server end of this place, and I know you don't have the most time in the world to do it. If we could establish a way for a user or two that RWW trusts to have access to basic server things (We cant' even rename users at the moment, which is kinda bullshit), then I'd gladly pay out-of-pocket to cover the costs of RWW. And then I'd also continue my regular donations to RationalWiki proper. Punky McPunkersen 10:23, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Who even owns RWW? The fact that the RWF has been paying for it doesn't mean it owns it. Trent? RA? Nutty Roux 15:37, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

It looks like it's registered to Trent: http://www.networksolutions.com/whois-search/Rationalwikiwiki.org Refugee 15:46, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

That's just be domain registration. I don't think even he thinks he owns it. Nutty Roux 16:00, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

There is jack shit on the RWW server other than capture bot, RWW and a few random things. so if there is someone with the technical knowledge who wants access to RWW that is fine. Why not stick a donate button on RWW that goes to an account you control and you can just forward money from that to RWF. 174.50.69.13 17:21, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

However we wanna go about doing this. I have long agreed that RWW should try to fund itself and be a semi-seperate entity (technical-wise and financially) from RationalWiki. That being said, let me work out some details and I'll get back to you on what I want to do, and anyone else who wants to add what they think to this conversation is invited to do so. Punky McPunkersen 08:15, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Curse you, PZ Myers...!

Link to a cached version or something! --Seth Peck 17:59, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Huzzar! Ty^Complain 18:57, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Gah.

Gah --RationalwikiwikiUndergroundResistor 14:56, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

so i wasnt just going crazy?--Mikal 15:52, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Great, someone's fucked with the css for the RC page... Armondikov 16:00, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Prolly through a Holidays template or something, but I can't figure out how to fix it. RationalwikiwikiUndergroundResistor 16:01, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

poor phone.ChristopherS 16:05, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

I've scrubbed the templates of RC for now meaning we can see and rollback any other edits, but there's something else slowing the site down right now. Armondikov 16:29, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Also, for the record, RWW should be safe as MediaWiki:Recentchangestext doesn't transclude anything and is locked to non-whatevers. Armondikov 16:49, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

It is. I may kick start the lock fucking everything script if this keeps up. Ty^Complain 19:57, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Theory

The vandal is Brx, or one of his fellow ED vermin, as some of the first things it went for were the brx template and Nutty Roux's sig. EricR 19:53, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

I had that theory as well--Mikal 19:59, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

It is Brx, there is no doubt. It is Brx. Ace McWicked 21:09, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Yeah. It's time to end this. Ty^Complain 21:11, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

On RW I stripped his rights and blocked him for 3 months. Someone, anyone, can take me to task on the mod abuse page but fuck it, I don't care and I did what was required. Ace McWicked 21:15, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

I support you unless he can give credible evidence he isnt responsible for this; and theres enough credible reason to think its him.--Mikal 21:19, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Well, it's not his account doing it so would accomplish nothing short-term... but frankly I'm not going to be shedding any tears over whatever you want to do. Armondikov 21:20, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Well, it does make sense he must be somehow connected, because of his "im not takin it anymore!" lines, where it started and when it started--Mikal 21:22, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

1) As noted above the first target was the Brx template and Nutty 2) The vandalism is very ED like and Brx is an ED user 3) When I signed up at ED Brx vandalised my page in the exact same manner as is currently being enacted on RW 4) It is Brx....I think we can be pretty certain it is either Brx or an associate. Either way, the guy is gone and I am taking it upon myself to make sure he is gone. Ace McWicked 21:26, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Thank you! Ty^Complain 21:28, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Bunch of fucktards

Yeah, so the guy with ADHD without the skills did it, but the guy who actually has the skills doesn't even come to mind. --Ullhateme 12:34, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Interesting theory. Did the guy who actually has the skills actually do it? Weaselicious ^{Bite Me} 12:43, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Yeah --Ullhateme 12:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Mmmh hmmm. Guybrush Threepwood 12:51, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

I imagine you must be very proud of yourself, UHM. Weaselicious ^{Bite Me} 12:52, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

May we inquire as to why? Guybrush Threepwood 12:53, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Boredom --Ullhateme 12:54, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Doubtful. Guybrush Threepwood 12:55, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Copperhead: You are a grade A moron. --Ullhateme 12:54, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

I gotta say that UHM, you are the moron. Vandal sprees are childish at best. Punky McPunkersen 14:10, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Ace is going to be so disappointed. Armondikov 13:38, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

We should ban the trio, really. Ty^Complain 13:39, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Nevermind what's going on right now....look at previous behaviors as well. When will RW say "Hey, you know what? Enough's enough." --Seth Peck 21:31, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

So long as those who cry " FASCISM!" to any possible block still have influence, never. --Mikal 21:33, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

I think it's notable that those who are crying out "it's not me!" are also not doing anything to help alleviate the situation (e.g., perform blocks, revert edits, protect pages). --Seth Peck 22:12, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

... noticeable. they show up in the respites though.--Mikal 22:12, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

They might show up, but they don't do anything but bitch. --Seth Peck 22:13, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Case in point, right now; hes there at first, then vanishes in the middle of battle. --Mikal 22:23, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Something is gotta change over all this

It's been... what a year since the last major site defining event? This might be another if things keep going. --Mikal 21:27, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

It's certainly the biggest HCM in some time. And it could perhaps even be the Trial of Human to May's putsch. Tobul Oltarolin 21:39, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

oh fun, maybe i can participate in this one --Mikal 22:17, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

what disturbs me though

and Foster hit in that LANCB, is that nothing is really being done to stop it before it happens, only when it is. And that REALLY bothers me, because RW is one of the few websites i like enough to call my home, and leaving the front door open with the gold bricks laying in view from the street is... yah. --Mikal 22:17, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

We only have a few mechansims to stop it: trent's wizardry, and blue's dark magic with the filter. The only other person I've known to work the filter is RNS, who is busy, which leaves a large hole in our defences when they're all asleep. And then there's the issue of how much power the techs have, of course... Tobul Oltarolin 22:24, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Well, yes, i know theres not much they can do, but apparently trent has a "just deal with it" attitude to the entire situation.--Mikal 22:51, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Clarify what i mean: he has that position, and normally it would work, but at the same time, it isnt a position thats going to help stop any of the hcm this things causing.--Mikal 23:02, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

He's not too far off: we're reaching that point in a major HCM where we don't know what we're arguing over. The attacks seem to have slowed of late. Tobul Oltarolin 23:06, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Atleast for now, but i dont doubt they'll start again; though we seem to be running out of easy to find pages, that isnt an idle state to leave the whole website locked in regis only mode. --Mikal 23:08, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

It's more that we need to be prepared for next time, but I don't think that this is the greatest of times for somebody to go code a kill switch. Tobul Oltarolin 23:11, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

True. I think catch 22 fits this?--Mikal 23:13, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Maybe? Tobul Oltarolin 23:18, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Foster ain't LANCB. Foster just don't want useless tools. RationalwikiwikiUndergroundResistor 23:14, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

That still makes him a Casualty in it though: just not the usual use for the word. --Mikal 23:17, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Casualty doesn't just mean 'dead', you know. Tobul Oltarolin 23:19, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

(EC)I think I corrected that on the page. What else does Foster want, btw? Tobul Oltarolin 23:18, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

A better solution than revert-protect-block. Some time in a hot tub with Nathalie Portman and Winona Ryder. RationalwikiwikiUndergroundResistor 23:43, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

He wants what we all want - a quick and easy solution to the attack we just suffered rather than the many person hours that were lost.

This, of course, raises cost/benefit questions. Much as I was equally pissed off by the amount of time I spent blocking and reverting this is hardly a common occurrence and, unless one of the MediaWiki gurus has a quick and easy answer then I can't see the end result being worth the effort.

And, already, the dust is beginning to settle. Lisa Jones 09:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

we said the same thing sunday night--Mikal 13:09, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Aaaaaand he's back at it again. RationalwikiwikiUndergroundResistor 16:16, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Maybe, were running out of pages.--Mikal 16:18, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

well, things have calmed again

Im still maintaining though, something is going to come out of all of this; either the attacks or the HCM that came from them. --Mikal 00:25, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

What, Cthulhu? Or were you thinking of something else? Tobul Oltarolin 00:53, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

if Cthulu would come that would be amazing. --Mikal 00:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

For a while, maybe. Tobul Oltarolin 00:59, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

i STILL dont understand whats going on in thispicture. --Mikal 01:00, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Eir back. Ty^Complain 16:00, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Eevery time

Every time I take a vacation something bad happens! Ty^Complain 05:20, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Down

Curses! Ty^Complain 01:49, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

It's not like anything much was happening save brxbaiting, and it's back up again. Tobul Oltarolin 02:34, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Again. Ty^Complain 20:38, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps not. Ty^Complain 20:42, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Rob Andy wigo

Seriously? Guybrush Threepwood 02:11, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

There have been some crap WIGOs recently, but that's terrible. It should have been written as "some noob thinks it was really Andy." Rennie McGreet 09:43, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

There have been all crap WIGOs recently. This page makes RW seriously look a lot more boring than it actually is. Weaselicious ^{Bite Me} 19:27, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Goatse vandal

Anyone editing from tor is obviously Brxbrx the goatse vandal, right? 64.31.8.146 10:30, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Hi guys! How's it hanging? This is the Goatse vandal speaking! Yep, the real deal. Yep, it was me. Not UHM. Not Brxbrx. Someone you'd never suspect (fuck yeah, I'm a well-liked and respected member of our community, not one of the obvious outcasts or weirdos or trolls). But I DID NOT post that lame-ass story about Nx. You're right, fellow-BON: just because someone happens to use the same Tor exit node as I did, does not make them me. 199.48.147.39 12:12, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Silly goose. IP addresses aren't the only things in server logs. Nutty Roux 13:16, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

You mean things like the user agent, which is spoofed to be the same as everyone else using Tor? 85.214.73.63 14:48, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Nope. They also log fingerprint scans from your keyboard. RationalwikiwikiUndergroundResistor 13:23, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

So log in and remove all doubt, or carry on playing childish games. Rennie McGreet 14:38, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

To whom it may concern: the BON above claiming to be the goatse vandal is an impostor. I am the real goatse vandal. Stop stealing my good name. 176.9.53.41 21:12, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

May I have your attention please?

May I have your attention please?

Will the real Goatse Vandal please stand up?

I repeat, will the real Goatse Vandal please stand up?

We're gonna have a problem here..

...

'Cause I'm Goatse Vandal, yes I'm the real Vandal

All you other Goatse Vandals are just imitating

So won't the real Goatse Vandal please stand up,

please stand up, please stand up?

...

Ha ha

Guess there's a Goatse Vandal in all of us

Fuck it, let's all stand up

178.217.184.147 23:18, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

The original IP used on that page doesn't seem to have been involved, you know... Tobul Oltarolin 08:10, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Vandals

Joy. Another lifeless moron. Isn't it about time?

#!/bin/bash
echo "order allow,deny" > /path/to/www/.htaccess
wget -q -O - https://check.torproject.org/cgi-bin/TorBulkExitList.py?ip=50.116.56.239 | grep -v \# | awk '{print "deny from", $0}' >> /path/to/www/.htaccess
echo "allow from all" >> /path/to/www/.htaccess

Crundy 10:09, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Here, at least - maybe not RW itself. Tobul Oltarolin 01:30, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Yeah not at RW, because some people in oppressive countries might use Tor to access it, but RWW is just a meta site of no interest to anyone apart from the RW regulars. Crundy 20:20, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

http://rationalwiki.org/w/index.php?title=RationalWiki:Chicken_coop&curid=2919&diff=1031570&oldid=1019241

Voting

I seem unable to vote. I just get the cycling circle of little bars indefinitely each time I try. Is anybody else experiencing this, or does anybody know what might be going wrong on my side of things?--Brxbrx 01:58, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

I just voted and I'm not sure if it worked or if it worked and reset the vote counter. --Admin 03:17, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

It isn't working, and no, I do not know why. Ty^Complain 03:18, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Voting, Again

? Why?--Mikal 03:15, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Anyone want to take a stab at fixing this? Liveware Problem 04:15, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Unfortunately, all I can think of is the Windows approach: reboot, and failing that, uninstall and reinstall the extension. I'm not confident enough to try either of those things on Ubuntu. Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" ^{(cover your eyes!)} 19:41, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Toulouse's revenge. He must have set these voting thingies to self-destruct when he cut us loose. Weaselicious ^{Bite Me} 22:46, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Human says the darnedest things

"You seriously should grow a pair of sanity hemispheres and fuck yourself with them." I'm just trying to envision that. Liveware Problem 03:52, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

I have and am now going to go scrub my brain. Ty^Complain 03:53, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

It looks like Human and Psygremlin are still sore at each other over that unpleasantness on his blog a year ago. ListenerX^TalkerX 04:10, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Hey, he bashed me there too, I've gotten over it. Ty^Complain 04:13, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

I don't even know what happened. Ace McWicked 04:15, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

1, 2, 3. Ty^Complain 04:19, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Personally, I find current-period Human hilarious. The dissonance between his constant butthurt ("Democracy ruined everything! Waaaah!") and authoritarian impulses ("How dare you disagree with me WaitingforGodot! Also, templates should hew to my vision and exactly to my vision alone.") is just so comical. Like Andrew Schlafly, he's becoming more and more this magnificent fail train that plows into everything. Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" ^{(cover your eyes!)} 18:38, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

My god, he must be cutting his liquor with freshly extracted bull testosterone--Brxbrx 03:59, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm increasingly agreeing with you here, Hans. Tobul Oltarolin 04:08, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

The Wiki would be less of a fun place without him. ListenerX^TalkerX 04:23, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

You people are so full of shit. Ever since the aspies got together and formed this so called 'democracy' (LOL!) the place is actually literally unreadable. Just as a clarification RA, the aspies didn't, in fact, form a democracy. They formed a bureaucracy. There is a key difference. IN a democracy dissent is protected by legislation but in a bureaucratic system whistleblowers and dissenters are persecuted by the 'combine' (I assume you educated folks are familiar with Ken Kesey) In short, you're all a pank of wankers and I still don't understand how good folks like Human etc. have managed to survive there so long. I will have my vengance, motherfuckers. I never forget.^{— Unsigned, by: TheBigMac / talk / contribs}

Oh, Marcus... Dissent is protected on RationalWiki. Your incessant trolling isn't. --Brxbrx 18:14, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Brx, are you still a virgin out of interest?

My other point is that you remind me of a steaming pile of shit. 1) Define trolling. 2) explain why it should be banned. 3) I should be fucking commended for pointing out the fucking obvious to you pack of socially inept freaks.

The irony is that Brxbrx is more disruptive and reviled than MC, yet the people he attacks would protect him from being banned by the people he would like to pretend are his allies. His enemies enemies aren't his friends, so to speak. Aside from the personal junk, MC is and has always been RW's conscience. You're lucky the people you defame are better people than you are, vile Brx. Nutty Roux 18:56, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Yes, brx is a virgin. Ace McWicked 21:02, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

MC is the best we can do viz a conscience? This explains a lot. Tobul Oltarolin 01:18, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

LessWrong

Somebody might want to sum up whatever's going on at the LessWrong Page. Seems like it might be interesting.--Brxbrx 22:30, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Seems like it might be interesting to people who are already interested in LessWrong, and of minimal interest to the rest of us. Much like the previous hubs on Citizendium, Storehouse of Knowledge, etc. These areas tend to become wiki-microcosms with a lot of activity from one trick ponies largely uninterested in the rest of RW, and a small number of regular editors, while the rest of the community largely ignores it. From what I gather about LessWrong, you have to read tons of material & understand a bunch of relatively arcane concepts before you're allowed to have an opinion on it. I figure life is too short. Weaselicious ^{Bite Me} 23:16, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

They always seemed like a bunch of self-glorified science fiction writers to me. And the way their site is organized, there's no way to make a dissenting opinion. You can't post anything until you gained approval from other users for your comments--Brxbrx 23:52, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

That would be just about every website ever. --Mikal 02:45, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

You can write it if you like, but it's very much TL;DR to me at least. Tobul Oltarolin 03:48, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

It's of interest to the 2-3 people who have been more sucked in by the Cult of Yudkowsky than LW's actual membership. Armondikov 08:22, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

I thought those were one and the same? Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" ^{(cover your eyes!)} 09:04, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Inane deletion war

Ty guy probably only cares because it fucks with whatever insane math spreadsheet thing he has going on, and Ace is likely just being his typical shit-stirring self. Mbwun 23:01, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Na, it's because I dislike Ty's attempt at gutting the RW collective history and the means he is going about it which is analogous to stacking the deck in his favour (though some of it definitely needed to go). Ace McWicked 23:05, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Eh, it looks like ToP deleted it first. I have no idea why Ty does what he does, sometimes he seems sane and then pop! crazy everywhere. Mbwun

Yeah I know he did, I am thinking more of Ty's long game than this particular incident. Ace McWicked 23:11, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

(EC)Oh yeah, I'm being paid to do this by TK's will don'tchaknow. Ty^Complain 23:13, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

uh, huh. Ace McWicked 23:15, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

No more ludicrus than the idea that I have some sort of long term secret plan. Ty^Complain 23:16, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

I don't think you have a long term secret plan, or a "plan" but creating a long list that no one is going to read then going through and deleting articles once you have 3 votes to one definitely plays to your advantage, no? In that, you have always wanted to get rid of CP and funspace articles. Ace McWicked 23:19, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

And if you would take the 5 minutes to scroll through that you would know that I didn't delete most of them, Turpis did, and that it was more 3 vote+ margin rather than three votes. Ty^Complain 23:22, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Sure thing Ty. Ace McWicked 23:24, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Uh huh. Ty^Complain 23:25, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Love you too chainsaw brain. Though it is a funny wigo, I must admit. Ty^Complain 23:10, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

I don't think I've ever been called that one before. Mbwun 23:12, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

(ECXA bazillion) Alright I officially have stopped caring. Mbwun 23:26, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Atlas didn't even shrug. Armondikov 08:14, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Ace and Ty fanfic competition, sexual submission due Wednesday

Excerpt from MarcusCicero's upcoming book:

This man, ever the outdoorsman, was hiking in the rugged wilderness of New Zealand when he came upon a downtrodden pub. Within its doors Tyrannis, named for the Star Wars he so revered, saw the the thick grime coating the surface of the bar- compelling him to specify to the bartender that he wished for a White Russian in a clean glass. While waiting for the bartender to fix his heroic drink, Ty the Woodland Warrior or New Orleans entered the facility's facilities to void his bladder but stopped as soon as the door was pushed open. He saw a familiar figure, a thin, haggard shape of a man he had known once. This man had broken his heart, as Tyrannis had lavished praise upon him hoping for his approval, but was never reciprocated. As the memories came back to our favorite former boy scout, he rushed to the side of his old acquaintance, who was laying face down passed out from his latest drinking binge. Ace McWicked, partially drowned in a pool of his own vomit, was saved by the heroic Tyrannis, who turned him upon his back and began trying to ressuscitate him.

Tyrannis changed the world that day. It may seem small to us small-minded people, but Tyrannis made it so that the world would have at least one more party with Ace McWicked in it. Then, before anybody could react, Camille of the brx swooped down from the clouds and heralded a new era of bricks-peace (the best kind of peace). His brilliant countenance brought soothing warmth to the coldest mountains and his gentle breath cooled the hottest deserts. Yea, for it was written that brx is our savior, and so shall it come to pass

--Brxbrx 04:11, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Wow, that is powerfully lame. Ace McWicked 04:35, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

I believe he conceded that point in his title. Tobul Oltarolin 04:58, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

>_< Ty^Complain 05:01, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

What is this I don't even Weaselicious ^{Bite Me} 06:13, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

I have read some bad fanfiction. That, brx, is bad fanfiction, though notably not as bad as trollfiction like My Immortal and Flowers in a Box. Liveware Problem 06:39, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

I thought it was okay until Camille swoops down out of the sky. That is really lame. Doofus ex machina. ZackMartin 07:39, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Pardon me while I show you how wiki-fiction ought to be done, Brxbrx:

I push the Enter key with rage. SLAM! Another paragraph, because that's how much it takes to unpack every hateful thing you said. SLAM! I save the page without clicking "Save page." I won't dignify you with moving my mouse, except to highlight all the wrong you typed.

Do I hate you? Yes yes yes. Do I love you? In a perverse way. I love to hate you. I fall in love with hating this monstrous straw man I've built of you, and hate you all the more when you tear it down with the small glimpses you give of your pitiable, human, life. It makes me slam down the Enter key for another paragraph.

Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" ^{(cover your eyes!)} 09:55, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Pfft. Amateurs.

It was a hot and sticky morning. Within a few hours, the matted nest that served Camille for a bed was fully under the glare of the sun, and he was forced into wakefulness by a thick coating of sweat. As he sat up, the edge of the sheet clung to the surface of his slightly malformed ribs - just a hint of a pectus - before slipping free to rest on the top of his round belly. He shucked it all the way off, grimacing and swiping his palm over the slick surface of his chest. It was too damn hot.

A fat bead of perspiration fell from his hand, landing on Ace's face. It trickled across a plane of stubbled cheek before slipping between his lips, moistening them. Camille watched, smiling fondly, and touched his lover - just a trace of his fingertips over one strong arm. Ace's eye lazily opened, blinking as it focused, and the New Zealander smiled back at Camille.

Camille leaned down, whispering in Ace's ear.

"Should we wake Ty up, too?"--AD 09:58, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

I applaud your ability to make Brxbrx as unsexy as I imagine him. Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" ^{(cover your eyes!)} 10:21, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Ace's cock slammed into my sex repeatedly. My inner goddess screamed "HOLY FUCK" was this wrong. Yet it was so erotic. So yes, Ace, claim my ass, please. Oh, wait... Armondikov 14:38, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

It's not fanfiction if you just switch out words from Fifty Shades of Grey. Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" ^{(cover your eyes!)} 19:23, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

If this keeps going until Wednesday, we're going to have a lot of fun--Brxbrx 14:47, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Why? Is that when you get to hump the competition winner? Flep Hendersen 21:58, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

This is absolutely awful, you people are horrible....but nonetheless...

Brxbrx woke to the sound of sea-gulls. He had been by the shore for several days, a prize claimed by the Beach Master himself. While the other Walrus moaned and vomited fish heads and sea weed upon each other, Brx knew the Beach Master would never treat him delicately. He sat up and opened his eyes to see his Master approach - his large pink phallus wobbling like jaunty red jelly in the glistening sun. Brx knew it was time to receive his morning punishment. With a roar the Beach Master approached as the other walrus quivered and formed a circle around the love arena.

The sacrifice was soon to begin, the mornings pain would ease Brx's yearning for Ty. Ty - whose body lay bloody and beaten, gored beyond recognition. He was no match for the 1 ton flippered nightmare which fought valiantly for his prize.

Brx rolled over and felt flippers crash heavily upon his shoulders. The other walrus swayed and moaned in deepening pitches. The smell of fish permeated his nostrils as the love making began in earnest...

30 minutes later Brx rolled back onto his back, exhausted and full. the beach master wobbled off down to the surf - he knew his seed would grow strong in the human.

Somewhere in the distance the whirring of a camera ceased. The film was was finally complete. Ace knew this kind of smut had a very specific yet wealthy market. "yes" he thought, "Mr. Sakasi would pay a lot for this". He turned and walked back to the helicopter while on the beach a dark secret grew within Brx's womb. Ace McWicked 20:43, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Walruses don't eat fish, otherwise 3/5 Mbwun 20:51, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Last time I asked for this I got told no dice. Flep Hendersen 21:58, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Given the subject matter is me I'm calmly watching. If it did not involve me this would have been vaped ages ago. 30px^talk 22:01, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

If you could Ty I am sure you vape plenty of things and create a special Ty:Space where you could keep everyone abreast of your wondrous activities. Ace McWicked 23:23, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Obviously, Flep Henderson, you do not command the respect and adoration of the community like I do.--Brxbrx 00:18, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

In retrospect, it appears I ignored the "Ace and Ty sexual submission" requirement, as my entry features none of these things. Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" ^{(cover your eyes!)} 03:57, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

So withdraw your entry. That's what she said. etc. Flep Hendersen 07:33, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

There is no such requirement. Look at the story at the top. Some RationalWikians are just dirty minded--Brxbrx 04:35, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Fanfic policy

OK, so what is this fanfic policy we've heard so much about, and why does it only apply to certain users? Weaselicious ^{Bite Me} 19:50, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

The fanfic policy doesn't exist. I personally don't like people posting fanfic stuff, and as I've said before, this is RWW and not Literotica. But I've never said to delete that shit. Punky McPunkerson 19:52, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

So on what authority is Ty deleting it, hiding revisions and handing out long blocks to anybody who stands in his way? Weaselicious ^{Bite Me} 19:57, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

His only authority here is that he's got a 25% stake in this website, since he supplies me 25% of the funding to pay the bills. Otherwise, none to my knowledge. Moreover, as I've said, I don't care for fanfic stuff on this website, but I never support censorshit. Punky McPunkerson 20:00, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Moreover, however, I will add that this is a community run website. Yes, I can make a final call on things being as I technically own it, but I'd prefer not to. Punky McPunkerson 20:09, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

It doesn't seem at all like a community run website today. Weaselicious ^{Bite Me} 20:18, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

I understand. But, ideally, this place is a community website and, as such, you will never see unilateral decisions made about things like fanfic content that are suddenly thrust upon this place out of nowhere and seemingly in the dark of night. Of course, if there is an emergency decision needing to be made, and once again, such decisions will be rare and if they needed to happen, this community would be notified. Otherwise, the vast majority of decisions and rules are left up to the site at-large. And, once again, I do not support cloak-and-dagger policy. Punky McPunkerson 20:23, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

No, you don't. But you're too weak of a leader to do anything about it, so the bullies and tin-pot dictators can run rampant. -- Nx / talk 20:28, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps you are right. I've always preferred a light-touch to leadership: leading by example instead of with the weapons at hand. Really, who actually enjoys blocking people and taking away user rights and writing policies and new rules? Punky McPunkerson 20:36, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Leading by example, on its own, will get you nowhere. While you sit back and enjoy not blocking people and taking away user rights etc., the power-tripping bullies you put in charge are destroying what's left of the community on your "community run" website. -- Nx / talk 20:54, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

we have a community?--Mikal 22:09, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

So there's a section of borderline tastefulness on this site and Ty flips his fucking lid about it, hands out blocks, people started hiding and unhiding and freaking out. Really? Then Ty's phone rings and its...my fault? Ace McWicked 20:45, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

I've gotta say, this is all very unTy-like. Let's cut him some slack for what is probably fallout from a personal meltdown. It's not like this is a pattern of behavior for him. The Ty we know and respect would not do something like this. Ty is the guy that offered to help me with my arithmetic when I failed a cashier's math test. Ty is the guy that tirelessly does the drudge work of making sure articles use the proper templates and categories. Ty has consistently proven to be a decent person before, and I'd just like to make sure we don't rush to condemn him.--Brxbrx 20:59, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

So if his behviour is a result of personal meltdown, we should just undo it, right? I'm not keen on fanfic (get a userpage, guys) but we shouldn't be letting one editor do something wrong just because he's been useful elsewhere. Rennie McGreet 08:58, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

It's all been undone. I don't think it needs to go beyond that given it spawned from a drunken tirade I'm not sure I remember having had on skype but I supposedly did. Punky McPunkerson 12:34, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

I have never understood

WIGO voting. Are we upvoting because we thought the WIGO was cleverly written? Or are we downvoting because we don't like the news described in the WIGO? Queen Iceabella 03:48, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

It's pointless voting, apparently used in the archive script. But apparently it Means Something to the WIGO crowd. In my veiw it is the most triumphant celebration of voting for voting's sake. Ty^talk 03:49, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

This last WIGO, product of myself, I voted down because I disapproved of the event.--Bastard offspring of TK and Proxima Centauri 03:54, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Accuracy also figures. In my opinion the most damning vote for the wigo-er is neutral anyway. Tobul Oltarolin 06:47, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Voting issues?

I still get that forever loading circle thingy. Why?--Mikal 06:54, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Because RWW is infected with the conflicker virus. Or, because something else is broken and nobody knows how to fix it. Tobul Oltarolin 07:01, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Probably something I'd defer for Trent to fix. Ty, RA, and I have all looked at it and are too scared to touch it. Punky McPunkerson 07:09, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

The response returned by the server contains some spaces in the beginning. The first value in the response is the id of the html element that has to be updated, and now it's prefixed by some spaces, so the javascript doesn't find it (it searches for " wigorw396" instead of "wigorw396"). The vote is registered, only the javascript doesn't work.

If you look at the html source of any page on the wiki, you'll see that there are two spaces at the very beginning. The likely cause is that someone put a few spaces before the beginning <?php tag somewhere. Probably localsettings. -- Nx / talk 07:25, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

WTF?

Why do we have the same WiGo twice in a row???? Whose stupid idea was that? Also, that second one is quite a bit of a stretch: Human didn't like Blue calling him by his first name, not an Ed Poor scenario. Just saying..... Punky McPunkerson 12:59, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

They were about the same post, but different concepts of that same post--Brxbrx 13:04, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Meh. You know, one of the reasons I stopped hanging around the WiGo CP crowd is because it always rubbed me very wrong that they, essentially, called Ed Poor a child molester. Things like that never sit right with me. I think I'm gonna remove that second one because of its redundancy and because that implication hangs in my stomach wrong. I don't approve of censorship, mind you. But things like that being on a site I am responsible for don't sit well with me. It's just like if we implied (let's say) Nx was an accused wife beater. Things like that just don't belong. Punky McPunkerson 13:25, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

As much as I enjoy bitchy WIGO entries, I can't fault your logic in being uncomfortable with it. Armondikov, First Lord of the Treasury, Lord Chief Justice, Commander-in-Chief, Lord High Admiral, Archbishop of RationalWiki (and Chief Rabbi), and Lord Mayor 15:44, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

As an aside, Human puts his real name on his user page for all to see, which makes his criticism of using it a bit inconsistent. Liveware Problem 17:23, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Part of why I found it ridiculous. Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" ^{(cover your eyes!)} 18:09, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

I acknowledge and yield to Punky's concerns. I never much liked wigoCP's "Ed Poor, child molestor" angle, either. That being said, while the defamatory nature of of wigoCP ought to be avoided, I think their irreverent tone mixed with "What are they thinking?" is the ideal approach for our wigos.

WigoCP appropriately treated Conservapedia's self-importance to mockery, while simultaneously treating the crazy things they said and did with horror. Both impulses were correct: CP had its head up its ass, and needed to be called on it, and at the same time, the simple fact that the site involved actual people meant that, on some level, it really was serious business, and their site should've been handled as such. (Past tense because CP is practically dead at this point).

I feel this applies to RW just as much. Self-importance and douchey behavior deserve contempt, but RW is also a project involving and affecting people, and the actions of its users ought to be weighed as such. Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" ^{(cover your eyes!)} 18:09, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, Hans. I don't mean to throw a fit about things, but stuff like that is, IMO, beneath this community. Or any community, really. Punky McPunkerson 09:50, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Secret government experiment

It's literally true that Trent viewed RW as consonant with some of the work he was doing on the depression or suppression of learned reward seeking behavior. Nutty Roux 16:54, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Fuck it, all I know is that the cheese at the end of the maze is delicious! Turpis 04:44, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Also totally not poisonous, whatever you may have heard to the contrary. Tobul Oltarolin, Expedition Leader 05:00, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

So I just keep pressing the button until you tell me stop? No matter what I hear on the other side of the wall? OK, no prob. Voxhumana 06:16, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

The point is something like the rats get tired of their rewards and stop pressing the lever. Unless it's heroin. Nutty Roux 06:25, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Jesus FUCK! It is heroin! I can't push this fucking lever fast enough! Does Trent know about this? Turpis 05:53, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

I was thinking RW was more along these lines. Voxhumana 07:44, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

End times

Yeah, what the hell is going on there? Tobul Oltarolin, Expedition Leader 04:40, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Take a picture and put it up on your wall for posterity. Socal212 05:10, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

I'm saving the oldid, that's for sure. Tobul Oltarolin, Expedition Leader 06:10, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Too bad it didn't last. Mbwun 15:59, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

I find Human is best interpreted as a satirist

I mean really, once you disabuse yourself of the idea that he should be taken seriously, he's actually hilarious. I think he's used three pronouns for me in all, she, he and it. Make up your mind, man! And his comment about my Skype joke where he took it completely seriously? Priceless. Liveware Problem 07:21, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Well, it's nice to see that you're not going to try to murder him for it, that's good. Tobul Oltarolin, Expedition Leader 08:03, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

If human wants to pursue that particular rhetorical object, I'm not going to get righteous about it. Much more effective to let him destroy what limited credibility he has left by his actions alone. Liveware Problem 08:12, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Also, are you sure you're not secretly Hans Johnson? Tobul Oltarolin, Expedition Leader 08:24, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

I thought you were secretly Hans. Or is it my turn this week? Liveware Problem 08:26, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Yes, your turn started this morning the thirteenth. It says so right there in the log book. Tobul Oltarolin, Expedition Leader 08:29, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

We are all sockpuppets. Mbwun 15:58, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

I misread this as, "I find Human is best interpreted as a satanist."TheCurtlyKnave 16:07, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

I DON'T UNDERSTAND WIGO VOTING

File:Zero wigos.jpg

Is this happening on purpose? Liveware Problem 22:02, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Well, I only did one or two on purpose... Armondikov, First Lord of the Treasury, Lord Chief Justice, Commander-in-Chief, Lord High Admiral, Archbishop of RationalWiki (and Chief Rabbi), and Lord Mayor 22:08, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, bad ADK! Tobul Oltarolin, Expedition Leader 00:56, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Are terrible WIGOs being written on purpose? No. The people who write WIGOs at RWW really are just that bad at it. Flep Hendersen 23:35, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

They're not necessarily terrible, just apparently that they evenly divide the audience. Liveware Problem 23:43, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

WIGOs are a testament to voting for voting's sake. Ty^talk 23:56, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Though, speaking of voting, can anyone hazard a guess as to why the 50 Shades vs the Bible thing has attracted 80 votes? That's a fair whack for WIGO:World. Armondikov, First Lord of the Treasury, Lord Chief Justice, Commander-in-Chief, Lord High Admiral, Archbishop of RationalWiki (and Chief Rabbi), and Lord Mayor 01:31, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

New ideological group

We have an article for the "gang of four" and the "nag of four," concerning stances on religion. Maybe we should do something about this recent spurt of anti-LessWrong users. Baloney Detection and Dmytry are the most vocal, and perhaps there are some others.--Brxbrx 21:02, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

The lesswrong situation isn't exactly on the same level of community divide that Gang and Nag represent. --Supreme Overlord Mikal 21:24, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

we need some grouping of Brx, Maratrean, UHM and Nx. Ace McWicked 22:01, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

The Grand prx? Tobul Oltarolin, Expedition Leader 22:17, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

The New Culture? Sounds like a post-punk pop group. Ace McWicked 22:20, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

'Coz that didn't happen before. --Bratislover 19:41, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

You need some faux french accents in there. Tobul Oltarolin, Expedition Leader 22:23, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

And some circle jerking. Ace McWicked 22:27, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

FWIW, I've always called it the Neu Kulchur, but then I'm someone who's not as clever as they think they are. 84.93.33.151 23:42, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure you need more than two for a circle jerk, this is more like a line segment jerk. Armondikov^{First Lord of the Treasury, Lord Chief Justice, Commander-in-Chief, Lord High Admiral, Archbishop of RationalWiki (and Chief Rabbi), and Lord Mayor} 13:39, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Since when is a handful of people finding the same thing objectionable, at a website that was begun because a handful of people were united in finding something objectionable, an 'ideological group?' I would think that for RationalWiki, that would be the status quo. TheCurtlyKnave

Brxbrx is desperately trying to claim he is useful, no more. Mbwun 00:32, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Of course. It's about time I admit that I've never added anything to the wiki ever. Any article I create should be deleted. Any edit I make should be reverted. Talk page comments should be troll-boxed without thought. Makes perfect sense if you cherry-pick a lot.--Brxbrx 04:03, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

THIS. FOREVER. Rennie McGreet 08:45, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

working on articles and being useful are two different concepts. you've done good work on some articles. Then you start talking to people and cause fights. Try and focus on doing the former. --Supreme Overlord Mikal 04:21, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

"tons of stuff is borked"

I'm annoyed by the recent RW-WIGO about the upgrade. As per any upgrade, yes, a few trivial things went awry. But the WIGO presents this as a "negative event" when it's pretty routine, and (frankly) it looks to have gone pretty well.

While I had nothing to do with the upgrade, I know how much work is involved in getting these things done, so I think this WIGO is out of line and causes offence in one of the (few) cases where we should actually be giving praise. </rant> VoxHumana 03:03, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Meet Brxbrx. Passive^aggressive 03:05, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

I found my own solution... VoxHumana 03:11, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Vox. Mbwun 03:16, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

I say we hide brx's sinking WIGO--Supreme Overlord Mikal 03:24, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Sure why not? Mbwun 03:26, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Given the lack of a wigobot, just delete them I suppose. Passive^aggressive 03:28, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

WIGO is not a whaambulance

If this isn't already a rule here, then it should be: thou shalt not use WIGO as a whaambulance. If someone ELSE thinks your current dispute is WIGO-worthy then so be it, but really, writing up your own dispute as a WIGO is just... (insert something that is lamer than lame). VoxHumana 06:26, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Agree wholeheartedly with the above. Anyone else? Punky McPunkerson 11:29, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

I think there's already a general distaste towards WIGOing your own stuff or drama. Armondikov^{First Lord of the Treasury, Lord Chief Justice, Commander-in-Chief, Lord High Admiral, Archbishop of RationalWiki (and Chief Rabbi), and Lord Mayor} 12:57, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Agree! And there should be a rule! This place needs more rules! Rules - like bow-ties - are cool! Psygremlin 12:40, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Hidden penises

Regarding the wigo where Rpeh and Nutty talk about cocks: I sincerely hope Nutty's talking about hiding dicks on his own websites, rather than other peoples. Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" ^{(cover your eyes!)} 09:55, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

No, he was talking about other peoples' websites. In fact, there a quite a few he's hidden here. 1000 bonus points for whomever finds them all first. Punky McPunkerson 11:13, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

The wiki, she is broken.

Yes? RationalwikiwikiUndergroundResistor 17:18, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

My legacy

Yeah, along with page catting and mass deletion sprees, that is about it. Passive^aggressive 22:59, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

You've written several articles and have been involved in drama/new drafts of policy--Brxbrx 16:41, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Prox watch

I imagine it's frustrating for the people actually engaging her, but for me, watching various people lay smackdowns on Proxima Centauri is enormously entertaining. Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" ^{(cover your eyes!)} 08:54, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

Talk pages and CS

There sure are a few people that have been stung by the 'don't remove stuff from talk pages' rule recently, aren't there? Tobul Oltarolin, Expedition Leader 02:03, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Oh please

That wasn't MC. Not his style. I have my suspicions, but naming names won't help anything--Brxbrx 18:33, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

If it wasn't MC then it was a good enough masquerade to fool many long time RW editors. 84.93.33.151 19:10, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Many long-time RW editors are blustering idiots --Brxbrx 19:21, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Many RW editors don't think Brxbrx is a useless pain in the arse. And by many, I really mean 3. Rennie McGreet 20:37, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

That many? Mbwun 16:24, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Of course it wasn't MC. I'm placing my bets it was UHM and Brxbrx again. Punky McPunkerson 10:36, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

Judging from the editfilter trips, yet another TOR vandal. Passive^aggressive 13:15, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

What do you mean "yet another?" It's not like the list of suspects is very long. Nutty Roux 15:20, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

Good point. Passive^aggressive 15:50, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

Oooo, me! Me! I'm a blustering idiot! Me! Idiot! Sterile 00:47, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

I little birdie emailed me to say, yet again, it was brx. Ace McWicked 01:58, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm fingering either P-Foster or SuspectedReplicant. SR was the jackass that was harassing Nx similarly, and P-Foster is always mister outrage. He gets off on that sort of thing. Also, mysterious email accusations are pretty worthless. "Hey, I just got an email saying that it was a concerted effort on the part of AD and Tmtoulouse! It's all coming together!!!"--96.44.189.100 03:40, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

Well, whatever. I KNOW it was brx. Ace McWicked 03:56, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

SR (as rpeh) was one of the people blocking the new accounts and cleaning up the mess. You'll need to come up with a better idea, BON. 194.75.171.33 11:06, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

RWWW

Wooow Passive^aggressive 12:17, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

A lot of the lib-types seem to be unable to lose gracefully.--Burzum 13:17, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

The scoreboard is quite disturbing--VPropp 14:53, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Maybe they don't accept your declaration of victory as having any meaning at all. That essay was created by Ace McWicked, trolling, and Tisane trolled right back. --AbdLomax 20:19, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Words fail me. Passive^aggressive 14:54, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

{{wgaf}} --Seth Peck 15:56, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Who runs the site? Socal212 02:54, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Tisane. Ty^talk 03:00, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Did he start it himself or did he get it from someone? I thought RWWW was started awhile ago by some RWians. Socal212 04:54, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Ah, you're thinking of the fun page. This is an external site registered and run by tisane. Ty^talk 04:58, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

What's going on? What about this new website? And what does wgaf mean? Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" ^{(cover your eyes!)} 02:57, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Something is happening and you don't know what it is. WGAF means Who Gives a Fuck. Geez, don't you know anything? It's one of the more sensible comments here. --AbdLomax 20:19, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Where does tisane get all these wikis?--64.180.243.158 05:36, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

The same place anyone else gets them. He's a highly experienced MediaWiki user and has also done some MW development. He buys the domain -- or obtains access from the original owner -- and he pays for hosting. Gives him owner control. There is very little anyone can do about that, if he stays within the law. And he knows the law much better than the idiots here and on RW. And he doesn't give a fuck what people might try to do to him, that ought to be obvious from his history. He did stand up to and defy the U.S. Secret Service, and the whole legal system. I'm amazed that the mob here would think someone like that would just pack up and go away because he's called names here. He doesn't, by the way, have a history of actual harassment. He doesn't directly threaten people with physical violence, attempting to create real fear for personal safety, as was done with him on RationalWiki. --AbdLomax 20:19, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Hey! He stole my "brain with pink bow and socks" picture and is using it there! I MADE that photo years ago to use on my user page here at RWW - and I did NOT give permission for anyone to hijack my creation to use anywhere else - they are in violation and need to stop using my picture immediately. Refugee 05:52, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

He could not possibly have stolen your brain, refugee, you didn't have one to steal. As to stopping him from using the image, how about clenching your fists and stomping your feet? That worked once, probably, why not try it again? --AbdLomax 20:21, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Ok AbdLomax, I admit that was funny, even though it was meant as an insult to me. :p lol. But about your second comment, when did I clench my teeth and stomp my feet? At a loss about that one (although it could be due to the missing brain) but I just don't recall having done that anywhere and would like to know what you are referring to... more info please? thanks! Refugee 21:27, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Glad you appreciated the joke, you had, of course, set it up. As to clenching fists and stomping feet (I did not write "teeth,"), you very likely did that as a child. It's common. And sometimes it works, and sets up repetition of the behavior, sometimes for life. That's all. It's just banter. My point is that you can probably remedy this situation, if it's a real problem for you, with a polite request to Tisane, rather than arguing for it here, setting up more and more opportunities for people to slam Tisane (for the benefit of those without a program, Tisane = Leucosticte). If you really want to make it happen, create an account on rationalwikiwikiwiki.org and create an alternative logo that is as good or better. But that might take some courage. I've been roundly attacked simply for pointing out that Tisane isn't a "child rapist," and is not a "pedophile." It's arguable he's a troll, but that would not fully express who and what he is. He does routinely grant sysop privileges on RWWW, he even gave it to Ace McWicked, and only yanked it when Ace used nuke to delete everything on the wiki. Unfunny vandalism. --AbdLomax 21:46, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Oh dear God. Frankenstein Created Woman 07:39, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Created today, once he knew that RWikians would be pouring over his wiki. The title is trolling. Worked, obviously. And this is how Tisane's mind works: If you strongly insist on some position without backing it with reasoned argument, he will research and assert the opposite position. It is not necessarily what he believes. And that's what he's done on that page. You could say that he's responded to RW trolling of him. I wish he wouldn't do it, I've long argued with him that he shoots himself in the foot, but he is his own person. --AbdLomax 20:36, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

I wonder if it's worth contacting the Mises Institute to say that their "member in good standing" is doing this. They might not want to be associated with this asshat. Armondikov^{First Lord of the Treasury, Lord Chief Justice, Commander-in-Chief, Lord High Admiral, Archbishop of RationalWiki (and Chief Rabbi), and Lord Mayor} 14:43, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Right. Just point to this discussion, below, and they will immediately recognize where you all stand. Do remember, insistent identification of the Mises Institute as crank pseudoscience, on the RW page covering Mises, avoiding actual "constructive dialog" as RW claims is a site goal, is part of what set Tisane on his course. --AbdLomax 20:36, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Guess we know which one he is. Ty^talk 14:48, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

I've known Tisane for about five years, and the types that most closely touch his actual positions would be Arrogant and maybe Left-Wing. The problem with Arrogant is that Tisane might be right, "clearly you've never read the evidence" might be, roughly, a statement of fact. In this case, people did not show that they had actually read the evidence, or, if they did, they read it with colored glasses, looking for confirmation of knee-jerk assumptions, and ignoring contrary clues. He's not a pedophile. At least he wasn't! The whole affair has caused him to investigate a whole world of arguments. Don't assume that arguments, however, represent conclusions or plans for action. Tisane is asserting, long-term, that public policy on important issues, such as the protection of children, should be rooted in evidence and argument. I.e., should at least begin with science, not hysteria. His approach is to shove the issue in your face, and you folks have cooperated spectacularly by linking to it. --AbdLomax 20:57, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm definately going to join up on this. The reaction to the pedo essay was absurd. Yes, paedophilia is abhorrent, the rapists who perpetrate it are monsters and should be locked up, and worse possibly. But it should still be discussed. Everything is open for discussion, if you introduce censorship on these kind of topics then you have destroyed the open society. Shame on you all, I mean that.

What RWWW says on its main page is bang on the money - RW is a cesspit and RWW is run by cretins and little aspie nerds who can't get girlfriends. I'm going to start writing articles on RWWW, fuck you guys. 86.45.200.7 20:20, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

I haven't fully read up on this 'tisane affair', but it seems to me that a seriously provocative guy pushed a lot of buttons but essentially all he did was espouse a deeply unpopular opinion. That is not against the law, and it is in keeping with what RW is supposed to be. RW was once a shining city on a hill, right before the authoritarians took over. It sickens me that AD the Sophist was the closest RW came to expressing progressive intellectual positions about censorship, the open society, and freedom. You people should be deeply ashamed of yourselves. 86.45.200.7 20:26, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

The "deeply unpopular opinion" was more or less pointed out by a famous study, covered on Wikipedia with the Rind et al controversy. Tisane is more or less demonstrating that he is a libertarian of the Arrogant type, he's shown that nearly everyone -- including people who supposedly are supporting his "rights," -- either doesn't read the evidence, or reads it so shallowly that they miss huge sections of it. --AbdLomax 20:57, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Im' still going to hammer his wiki64.180.242.31 21:58, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

I see you saw my post then?64.180.242.31 22:41, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Oh, I've seen a lot of posts by 64.180.x.x, here and on other wikis. Very interesting. --AbdLomax 02:10, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

64.180.0.0/8 is actually a ip range I use at other times. Normally I am 23.168.0.0/8 (telus) or 142.128.0.0 (government of BC)64.180.242.74 22:50, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

Ah, another McWiki. And they even justify their own obsolescence with a Batman analogy.--AD 04:47, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

McPunx's commentary

Wow, somebody has so little life as to start a website with which to troll RWW (a corner of the internet with very little serious point to it as is)? Impressive. Punky McPunkerson 02:28, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

Ratwiki allows him to be libeled, RWW blocks him for no reason, blocks Abd for no reason, and then expects him to go away with nothing to say? Indeed, he's got plenty of time. You're surprised? --Whatever 04:12, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

Not surprised. More like amused. I've never seen somebody with so little life. At least not since I knew some WoW players. Punky McPunkerson 04:17, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

Hey now. Trent and I raided together thrice weekly for a long time and oh fuck it. Nutty Roux 14:54, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

RWWW (again)

Sorry to see it go. I was looking forward to filling up the entire Wiki with recipes. After all, filling it with high-demand recipes was letting the free market decide that RWWW was a food Wiki, not a Wiki about RationalWikiWiki. Punky McPunkerson 12:55, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

"But also because our opponents, by refusing to debate us or adherents to similar viewpoints as what many of our users expressed, in any forum, under any circumstances, had acquiesced to the overwhelming superiority of our arguments, and thus it was unnecessary to pummel them any further with the relentless and irresistible force of our reasoned argumentation. We graciously accepted their surrender, while leaving this site notice in place as a memorial that yes, it did happen. We did indeed win, and it took us only an incredibly short period of time to attain that intellectual victory over the two largest self-styled "rational" wikis of the Internet." Wow, that little pedo is as crazy as Ken when it comes to "winning" debates. Psygremlin 12:06, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

"The webhost, perhaps pitying them, graciously fulfilled their request" Yeah, that's probably why they did it. Not because his website was promoting pedophilia, which is against their TOS. Nah. -- Nx / talk 14:43, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

"In fact, the RWW sysops made it abundantly clear, by various blocks they imposed, that people banned from discussion of certain topics on RW would also be, at best, on thin ice at RWW as well; and that discussion of those topics would not be allowed to take place on RWW, unless the participants in those debates adhered to the mainstream view on the subject (which would make it not a debate at all, but rather a recitation of conventional wisdom). And who can doubt that the RWWians are, by and large, pleased to see what is the fate of this wiki, aside from the fact that it exposes them as losers? Of course there was only one person who reported this site to the webhost; there only needs to be one reporter. It would have been an unnecessarily duplicative effort for a second person to file a report. " Sorry to tell them this, but I will never let anybody who is a defender of pedophiles be allowed to do so on this here Wiki. Even I have to hold this place to some standards, and any body who thinks it's OK to say "Any sex is OK as long as somebody got pleasure out of it" is out of their fucking mind! As an aside, of course, I think it is, at bare minimum, completely ignorant for Leucotastic to spout the nonsense he does in support of pedophiles when every single bit of scientifically backed research refutes his garbage. Punky McPunkerson 06:07, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

What's especially hilarious is that people were having this discussion with him on RW - he just didn't like that nobody agreed with him so he escalated things. People were surprising patient with him, as far as I'm concerned. I love that he claims, despite all evidence, that this is about censorship of discussion "certain topics" when it was really about only one topic, and he might have been tolerated for longer (but almost certainly not forever) if he stopped making mainspace edits about the topic and confined his ramblings to talk pages (which, amazingl, is where these discussions are supposed to take place). Oravenhurst 13:19, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

McWiki could also use some burger recipes, although I'm not sure I remember my username or password. Sterile 23:24, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm curious about bacon eggnog. Is this a real phenomenon? Weaselicious ^{Bite Me} 00:51, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Yes. I make my own eggnog and once came across the recipe. It is vile. Corgan 03:48, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Sounds like a terrible idea by somebody who likes bacon and eggs just a little too much! Sophie 09:31, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

RWWW yet again

I must say, their obsession with this place is as good a reason as any to kill RWW with fire, if only because it gives Leucotastic and Abd nothing to do with their pathetic lives. Talk about making a Mount Everest out of the mini-ant hill on the internet. Punky McPunkerson 12:03, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

I suggest we ignore any future websites of theirs, especialy as their web-cfompetence apears to be very low. At least Laurel and Hardy were funny. Tisane and Abd are just a couple of cranks. Let them talk to each other about us if they wish, but we don't have to pay attention. Who benefits if we do? Sophie 12:28, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

You make a good point. The only problem is that I need to resist the temptation to take advantage of Tisane's recipe space so that the free market he worships can speak its mind about what really matters: food! Punky McPunkerson 12:32, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

I think he killed it.

If he hasn't, I see no problem with filling the site with recipes so long as we stop wigoing it. Tobul Oltarolin, Expedition Leader 06:57, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

He is trying to install extensions to MediaWiki.--AD 07:03, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

But is he succeeding? Tobul Oltarolin, Expedition Leader 07:19, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

He's a highly experienced MediaWiki user and has also done some MW development, remember? -- Nx / talk 08:43, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

I have to give Abd credit; he did take a stand against Tisane's using the Wiki more about defending pedophilia and less about using RWWW to keep tabs on RW/W. In reality, the only reason I felt he wasn't welcome here is because he was trying to defend Tisane's defense of pedos. But now that he seems to have grown just as tired of it as we have, I see no further reason to block him. Punky McPunkerson 13:23, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

He's planning to do it in multiple languages now, back on the .org domain. *rolls eyes* Tobul Oltarolin, Expedition Leader 05:14, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

He's gunning for the coveted polyglot pedophile demographic. Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" ^{(cover your eyes!)} 10:37, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

The content seems to be lifted from several other pro-pedo wikis. See the new articles list on the RWWW mainpage. He doesn't seem to be bothering to pretend that it's a site about RW/RWWW anymore, despite the name & the listed missions. Weaselicious ^{Bite Me} 11:47, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Return of the single-issue editor

Not wigo-worthy, but RW now has a resident objectivist, Guidewog (with the expected editing pattern). Seriously hoping he pops up on the Saloon bar so he can get dogpiled by everyone who isn't a pretentious asshole. Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" ^{(cover your eyes!)} 03:11, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

He buries his inanity in evasive tactics such as pointless fake-sarcasm, the courtier's reply (you just don't read/understand the book!), and accusations that RationalWiki is controlled by what is 'popular' or that it engages in cult behavior or groupthink. Drink! Note also he claimed his wiping of Atlas Shrugged was 'original research' when it simply ripped out the criticism and inserted strange vaguely boner-evident statements such as describing the hero as 'handsome' in a critical article. Guy needs an entry. TheCurtlyKnave 12:54, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Hopefully this was an attempt at a LANCB. I doubt it though. Tobul Oltarolin, Expedition Leader 06:27, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

I dunno, he has a point about the groupthink thing. ^{— Unsigned, by: 46.7.150.116 / talk / contribs 2012-09-22T18:33:17}

Ken style editing

Is anyone other than me beginning to get concerned that we've got our very own Ken. Not quite to the same degree but someone has somewhere in the region of two hundred edits today. 84.93.33.151 17:23, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

It's been remarked on many many times that PC is RW's Ken, & it's not just the editing rate. Weaselicious ^{Bite Me} 18:04, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

RWWW new location

The entry page is now at http://rationalwikiwikiwiki.org, with the English wiki main page being at http://en.rationalwikiwikiwiki.org. Having gone through some birth pains, including a complaint to HostMonster from a user here -- and were RW or RWW hosted there, they would also be in violation of the HostMonster TOS -- and an attempt by Trent of the RationalWiki Foundation to shut down the site name,[4], which went down in flames, the wiki might be heading toward something useful, or something weird, or both.

The links in WIGO now don't work. Thought I'd let people know, I'll let someone figure out what to do about this Terrible Problem. --AbdLomax 21:08, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Slow as balls all day.

Anyone else experiencing RW slowness? JubalHarshaw 00:33, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Yup. SJ Cogs 00:45, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Odd vandalism

File:RW weird vandal spree 2012-9-29.png

Above: the latest vandalism spree.

Not wigo-worthy, but does anyone have any idea what's driving the latest spree of vandalism? Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" ^{(cover your eyes!)} 03:52, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Some tosser being a tosser? 86.136.175.67 21:31, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

This latest spat

Thank god I no longer have email notification enabled.--Brxbrx 12:02, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Summary: Ace McWicked behaved according to his trademarked identity. Eventually this led him to a personal obligation to remove the user rights from a long list, including moderators and members of the RW Foundation Board. The process was interrupted when Tyrannis used sysoprevoke, a control file with access limited to techs, to shut down all rights for Ace. It was all well within the predictable for RW. Our own Punky blocked himself for a three month wikibreak to think it over. --AbdLomax 18:33, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

You know, this would all go down a lot smoother if you didn't keep starting pissing contests with Sterile.--Brxbrx 21:48, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Hey hans

Your talk page is uneditable. -- Nx / talk 20:09, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Ah, I forgot to update it after Holyroller was no longer a user group. Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" ^{(cover your eyes!)} 20:24, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

RW down?

RatWiki appears to be down. Main Page returns

503 Service Unavailable

No server is available to handle this request.

This isn't just transient. Tried Comcast and ATT for access. Is there a place here for notices like this? --AbdLomax 18:15, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

why don't we have a designated page for up /down reports or discussion? TheCurtlyKnave 18:26, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

I'd create it if I could be arsed. Mebbe later. Anyway, RW is back up. --AbdLomax 18:35, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Abd is gone?

[5]. Gee, I don't feel gone. But AD is an authoritative source. I am far less likely to waste time here. What I did was to shut down email notification of Talk page edits, and I didn't have other Watchlist notification set up anyway. I do for RW, and isn't this supposed to be WIGO for RW? I edit there from time to time. I was going to edit the WIGO, but, I assume that "don't edit your own page" would also cover editing commentary *about* me, even though other users frequently do that. It's one of the things that annoyed people, that I objected to it, effing wikilawyer that I am. --AbdLomax 17:49, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Another thing that might irritate people is if you fail to read the thing that you are criticizing - a WIGO about RWWW, from which you departed some time ago. Thus the parallel construction of "Abd is gone and Tisane is going."--AD 20:02, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Well, not exactly. I did read it, but misinterpreted it, which the sentence construction encourages. "Abd is gone" at the beginning, in context, implies that Abd is gone from RW. And then it talks about RWWW and Tisane. It should be edited to make it clear that I'm gone from RWWW, not RW -- or RWW. Now, I'm gone for the day, I assume.... --AbdLomax 20:39, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

I will reword. Next time, just reasonably point out if you think there's an error.--AD 21:10, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Why, thanks, AD. Perfect. Sorry about the bad habits. For me, it's been "When in Rome ...." --AbdLomax 03:24, 6 November 2012 (UTC)