Talk:Kiwi Farms

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Editorial notes
  • Do not link directly to Kiwifarms. Keep in mind that even archived links to Kiwifarms may be transient due to archive sites blacklisting their URLs.

Archives for this talk page: , (new)

Removed links[edit]

I removed the kiwi farms links because it does not look safe and might have a virus because my friend got onto this site a day before his computer broke. Wik 10 22:12, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

I'm not exactly sure if it's the site causing this to happen but we really shouldn't be linking to this site anyway. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 01:43, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
Seems likely someone hacked it and took it offline. CogitoNotStirred (via telepathy) (talk) 00:05, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
@CogitoNotStirred The link you posted is broken. I think you need to take out the |. Vomitorium (talk) 00:30, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
@Vomitorium Thanks, fixed. CogitoNotStirred (via telepathy) (talk) 13:40, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
It was apparently back online anyway. Cloudflare, what's the hold up. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 03:53, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
It has always taken a lot of pressure for Cloudflare to cease services to sites like these, remember what it took for them to give the boot to 8chan? Rabbitseatcarrots (talk) 14:06, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
Don't get me wrong, I still remember what they did to Near and want this site to dissapear, but it's not like Cloudflare kicking them will make the website go away anyway. I'm not going to visit it to confirm, but I'm pretty sure they are using Cloudflare's reverse proxy (meaning the actual server is somewhere else, probably in some shady Russian "bulletproof" hosting provider), and they also use Cloudflare as domain registrar as I can see from the whois, which means they can easily just register new domains with a different registrar and resume operations. It will much more effective to go after the non-anonymous admin, Joshua Conner Moon. Rabbitseatcarrots (talk) 14:40, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
Regarding not linking directly to KF, yes it's best to link to archived copies. Bongolian (talk) 17:14, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Looks like Kiwi Farms' behavior was so shitty that Cloudflare finally decided to block them from their services. Now, this is the same Cloudflare that previously had written this blog post where they regretted blocking terrorism enablers 8chan and the similarly shitty trolling Daily Stormer because of libertarian blinders or something. Quite amazing that these folks have sunk below those depths... (talk) 22:39, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

"We are also not taking this action directly because of the pressure campaign". Also this, "Kiwifarms has frequently been host to revolting content. Revolting content alone does not create an emergency situation that necessitates the action we are taking today", yeah, sure, large scale cyberbullying and doxxing does not create a emergency situation, right guys?. Ultimately, I agree with them in one thing only, using de-platforming of this style to target websites goes nowhere. At the end, the way to deal with Kiwifarms is making the admin face justice. Rabbitseatcarrots (talk) 22:52, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
Yeah maybe they should reevaluate their ideology but you know they won't. Libertarianism has generally been an excuse to enable harm to people. Same song and dance. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 23:01, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
The forum is back online .ru instead of .net. I don't think there is any way to remove it now. They are using a Russia-based domain registrar and Russian DDoS mitigation company. Boar (talk) 03:11, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Cloudflare is unique in being both very big (Akamai / Verizon sized) and very stable, and also having that oh-so-Silicon-Valley freeze peach ethos where booting off sites that host illegal content, even no brainers like child porn or DDOS-for-hire, is resisted until law enforcement cross every T and dot every I. I imagine most other large Internet companies wouldn't even give KF the time of day. (Honestly, I can see problems with Cloudflare's ethos for them in the future given tightening regulations on things like hate speech, child exploitation, etc. in some countries. For instance, freeze peach absolutism don't exactly jive with EU regulations like GDPR and DSA. But we'll see.)
Most of the other sites that support hosting criminal content are a lot dodgier in nature, and a lot more unstable in practice. Yes, it does appear that Kiwifarms is back up under some shady Russian arrangement (DDOS-Guard, of course). However, per keffals it looks like their server arrangements at the moment are an Las Vegas company called Fiberhub... that could easily change and KF would have to flee to something else dodgier. 8Chan and Daily Stormer became shells of themselves after the Cloudflare boot, partially IMHO due to the dodginess and constant changing their hosting arrangements (in part due to constant pressure). De-platforming doesn't get rid of the pond scum of the Internet, but I'm guessing it might dent some of the brigading by making it harder to gather. We'll see if this happens in this case as well. (talk) 03:32, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
They've changed web host like a dozen times. In 2016 they were hosted by but who removed them after finding child porn on the forum (screenshot of emails). It is very easy to find a new web host. Joshua has changed web hosts many times so if he is dropped again he will find another web hosting company. This is why I think trying to take Kiwi Farms offline will not succeed and is a waste of time. Kiwi Farms also changed their domain host last year after DreamHost stopped being the registrar after receiving complaints about harassment. Boar (talk) 03:47, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
There was a serious attempt to take the website permanently offline 5-6 years ago. The longest period was about 2 weeks in 2017 after various people started contacting Joshua's family members and that put pressure on him to delete it (but after a few weeks he brought it back online). Keffals so far has only succeeded in taking the forum offline for a few hours, not even a single day. The forum is despicable like Daily Stormer but Joshua is an unemployed man and 24/7 is dedicated to keeping it online. Boar (talk) 04:03, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Whether it stays down permanently or not, I can't imagine it's fun for Joshua to have to keep changing hosts and going through maintenance to keep his toilet stable. So, any way at all, even petty, to make his life generally miserable, is welcome. BumblingBuffoon (talk) 10:13, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
DDOS-Guard lol. But yeah, just as expected, switch registrars and reverse proxy, resume operations. @Boar I agree with you, even if they successfully pressure Fiberhub or Fiberhub's upstream to block Kiwifarms/drop all conections from and to Fiberhub, there are plently of no fucks given russian web hosts that would gladly host them as long as they get paid, and these ones are not exactly known for caring about what they host or what others think of them. At least to me, trying to do this is a waste of time. Rabbitseatcarrots (talk) 10:28, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Nah, hosts that wink and nudge at illegal content typically are dodgier and therefore a lot less stable. DDOS-Guard is a great example, their protection from DDOS attacks etc. is dogshit compared to Cloudflare. Given how Kiwi Farms loves to piss everyone off I expect a lot more downtime in the future. I agree with BumblingBuffoon, it's less about knocking them offline and more about keeping them on their toes.
The "do nothing" stance has bad optics anyways. Kiwi Farms generally hasn't receive a whole lot of media coverage over the years. A little bit during the Near suicide in gaming / nerd circles, and occasional mentions elsewhere, but by and large KF is under the radar. Keffals has succeeded in getting KF in both the media and politics to some degree. Often the "common sense" reaction to KF is, "this site is for harassing and stalking users, why is it allowed to exist?" I mean, even the lone brain cell of Marjorie Taylor Greene thought that. Now, the Cloudflare decision brought out loads of freeze peach absolutists trolls on certain threads (esp. on SV type places) defending KF's harassment and stalking culture. That's honestly a really bad look there. It just reinforces the SV Lawless Big Tech Boogeyman stereotype, a culture that shrugs its shoulders even at most noxious illegal behavior. To me, this flippant attitude actually makes it even more likely that the Internet will eventually get more stringently regulated by the government, which will be of course a far worse outcome compared to if Internet companies policed themselves. I can see a politician, for instance, using KF cyberstalking threads alone in order to try to destroy Section 230Wikipedia. Never mind the true politics, it'd be pretty easy to put together a emotion-tugging argument just with that, wouldn't it? (talk) 19:02, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Yes, it is easy to make emotional appeals with stuff like this, one only needs to look at the UK's history in passing internet regulations (their porn block was basically Think of the children!!!11!!!1one!!) and the endless calls and attempts to end E2E encryption worldwide. I don't really see how this is effective self regulation, to be honest. We block Kiwi Farms until their only host is a Raspberry Pi in the middle of nowhere, rural Russia, then...? You say that, due to Kiwifarms (rightfully) pissing of a lot of people, they are constantly under DDoS attacks, which are now presumably more effective now that their choice of protection is much, much inferior to Cloudflare's, but it still doesn't really do anything in my opinion, DDoS attacks don't go on forever, and they either cost money in Internet connections and devices/requires hacking devices to use in attacks/require a lot of volunteers willing to keep their devices running 24/7. But you're right, going the government regulation route is likely a lot worse than this (GFW-style blocking to ensure that Kiwifarms is blocked in the countries where regulations against sites like Kiwifarms exists). I will concede that this is perhaps the best we can do regarding Kiwifarms, at least for now. But still... . What does SV mean, by the way? Rabbitseatcarrots (talk) 19:33, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

SV=Silicon Valley. (talk) 21:13, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

CloudFlare has finally dropped KiwiFarms for going too far[edit]

Most notably, in thanks to an anti-harrasment campaign from one of their 'lolcows'. — Unsigned, by: Melonhead / talk / contribs

Yeah looks like they pissed off too many people in the process as well, not just keffals. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 02:59, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Kiwifarms is still up their now in the .ru domain zone. — Unsigned, by: / talk
Kiwifarms is now offline, they have been booted off ru. [1], [2], Josh has said he is closing the website due to a family "emergency" [3] and says [4] "I do not see a situation where the Kiwi Farms is simply allowed to operate". He says it may become like Daily Stormer jumping between hosts but I find this unlikely. It is very likely the Farms has gone for good! (talk) 16:11, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
KF is too shitty for DDOS-Guard? That's pretty amazing. (Also, LOL @ DDOS-Guard having better optics on this issue than Cloudflare.) (talk) 17:02, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
When dealing with phishing scams and such, I actually find that the Russian hosts are often quicker to kick someone off than a lot of American hosts these days. I suspect a lot of it has to do with authoritarian government vs. democratic government; in America and the EU, hosts don't want to tick the public off over censorship while in Russia they don't want to tick the government off for NOT censoring, or put another way, in America, politicians fear the voters, in Soviet Russia, voters fear the politicians. 71.208.x.x (talk) 17:19, 5 September 2022 (UTC)


Joshua complaining about drama [5]? Are you kidding me? Rabbitseatcarrots (talk) 19:53, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
He claims victimhood and then proceeds to use a derogatory word to his opponents in the same breath or just tries cryptic messaging to get people to say derogatory words as if derogatory words are little toys to be played with. That part where he apparently labeled people as a "coalition of criminals",[6] well, not sure if he sincerely has the same self-awareness as mashed potatoes in front of a mirror or he's just being really terrible at lying. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 20:03, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
I think he has been lying for so long he's starting to get high of his own supply. I think he actually believes the lies he tells now, that's what too much exposure to *chan and kiwifarms does to you, like 4chan "ironic" posters turning into non-ironic alt-right members over time. Rabbitseatcarrots (talk) 20:19, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── There's also tweet showing alleged German authority going after someone[7] but I'm highly skeptical of the authenticity of the supposed letter and whatnot and am more inclined to think this is just a self-persecution stunt for cheap sympathy points for the time being. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 21:23, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Maybe now someone can try to build a healthier gossip site. IE one not rooted in harassing neurodivergent people. 2600:4040:4023:D600:CC0F:E1F9:E143:7A37 (talk) 23:28, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

I really wish I could, no alternatives seem to exist.--RadicalRadish (talk) 19:40, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Hard to feel sympathy for either side to be honest, especially a site like Kiwifarms. It was about time Kiwifarms was shut down.--RadicalRadish (talk) 19:40, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Internet Archive has also purged it from their site, so now there's a whole bunch of links that don't work.--2601:143:8200:6E70:44DB:B2B8:566:5DC9 (talk) 22:54, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

That sucks, I really wanted to see if there was more to this scenario. Anyways, I'm kinda split on this issue. Preservation is important for research and stuff so we can learn from the future. It might also be useful in the event of a criminal investegation considering recent events. But then again, it was a website made to harass people.--RadicalRadish (talk) 01:03, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
Kiwi Farms was a site that promoted illegal activity and also had many threads with big time data privacy violations (doxing). The Internet Archive will exclude sites that promote illegal activity (though I imagine they still have the data, it's just not public). It's not unprecedented. For instance, known historical revenge porn sites are also excluded from the Wayback Machine. (I wonder if this factoid also pisses off those freeze peach trolls moaning about the Kiwi Farms de-platforming. Probably...) (talk) 02:31, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
Looks like they were the real “whiny hugbox rapidly declining website” all along. Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 02:49, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Kiwi Farms: What's next?[edit]

Joshua Conner Moon wrote: “I do not see a situation where the Kiwi Farms is simply allowed to operate. It will either become a fractured shell of itself, like 8chan, or jump between hosts and domain names like Daily Stormer.”

He seems to have largely given up. He's like a bully that got punched in the nose and backs off. The website was a popular website for bullies and got 10,0000,000 visits a month.

So what's next? IvanK (talk) 23:31, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

What's next for what? If it's gone then ignore it. Also, people take SimilarWeb stats way too seriously. It overestimates unique visitors a day by over 4x. Kiwifarms got about 83,000 visits a day before getting security services pulled, not hundreds of thousands. Jorsh22 (talk) 23:58, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
The Daily Stormer website is still up, but it has a new URL. Alex Jones's InfoWars website is still up. If the Kiwi Farms website got about 83,000 visits a day, I expect it will find a hosting service somewhere in the world or become a fractured shell of itself, like 8chan, or jump between hosts and domain names like Daily Stormer. If there is an audience of 83,000 visits a day, I don't think the audience is going to totally evaporate. The audience is like water. It you put an obstacle in its way, it will just go around the obstacle and flow somewhere else. The people who go to Kiwi Farms are not going to change the type of people they are. They will just go to a place on the internet that is as similar to Kiwifarms as possible. IvanK (talk) 00:30, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
Using the water analogy, if you take a small stream and then spread it across a wider area to take away its depth, it becomes easier to evaporate.BumblingBuffoon (talk) 02:59, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
The online community of Kiwi Farms is going to take a hit, but how big of a hit I don't know. Vox Day's blog was taken down by Google, but it still gets up to 2 million visits a month at its new location. Once a website/blog gets a following a certain percentage of people follow it to the new location. And with Russia being a pariah state now, Joshua Moon might eventually find it easier to get a Russian to host it. It's too early to tell what's going to happen. It might come down to money. At the right price, he might get some Russian cooperation. IvanK (talk) 06:26, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
I was right. Money talks. This news story was posted 6 hours ago: Hate-filled Kiwi Farms message board finds new home with Southwest Washington tech company. IvanK (talk) 06:35, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

He Goes by "Null"?[edit]

And nobody is going to comment how "null" is a term for those without physical manifestations of sex? There is a sexual fetish to have one's genitals removed and become "null." Not "agender" in that they don't associate with either but rather they wish to be physically without the primary sex characteristics.

The irony of someone who is so set against transgender people naming themselves after a term for someone without sex organs is quite strong. — Unsigned, by: / talk / contribs

fascism category[edit]

I removed the category for it not being comfortably applicable to Kiwi Farms. Kiwi Farms's userbase is faschy but the site itself not really. It's a weird conglomeration of internet extremists and criminals that try to harm people, but it's not a website primarily espousing fascism. My edit got reverted however[8] The "alt-right" category fits this site better anyway, and fascism IS covered underneath it. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 01:40, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

Should the article mention that some RationalWiki users were also interested in Kiwi Farms?[edit]

According to Similarweb at one point, RationalWiki users also showed interest in Kiwi Farms. Should this be mentioned in the article? Obviously, it's not something to be proud of, but it could be included to more objectively cover the topic. Fja2021 (talk) 10:06, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

[citation needed] and irrelevance aside, Similarweb is shit. According to the current snapshot, Similarweb lists nationalvanguard.orgWikipedia (aka Kevin Alfred Strom's neo-Nazi webshite) as a "competitor". WTF? There's some other less stark but still strange associations, such as SimilarWeb thinking that RationalWiki has a lot of Dragon BallWikipedia fans. Maybe? BobJohnson (talk) 13:25, 22 March 2023 (UTC)