User talk:PalMD/Archive3

Mercury and Vaccines

Robert F. Kennedy has a piece up on Salon about mercury and vaccines, its here and its pretty bad. Also David Kirby's site is still floating around here. You up for dissecting any of this? Tmtoulouse 19:35, 21 June 2007 (CDT)

Groannnn....fuck!! Fuckity fuck fuck fuck! Is there no end to this insanity?? Sure, I'll start on it tomorrow.--DoxXox^-DawkT0wk 19:36, 21 June 2007 (CDT)

• Autism and Vaccines

Some more recent stuff here and here. It would be pretty cool to put together some sort of "package" and link it all up with the autism omnibus "trial" thats going on. Tmtoulouse 19:41, 21 June 2007 (CDT)

Are your ears burning?

You're being talked about (obliquely) here. --jtl^talk 23:27, 25 June 2007 (CDT)

Thanks for the heads up.--PalMD^{-yada yada} 23:35, 25 June 2007 (CDT)

How do you people find these things. Heart♥Gold ^tx 23:37, 25 June 2007 (CDT)

Beats the hell out of me.--PalMD^{-yada yada} 23:38, 25 June 2007 (CDT)

Good place to start. Tmtoulouse 23:44, 25 June 2007 (CDT)

Cool, I just found this blog about bias at wikipedia (and no, I did not write that blog). Heart♥Gold ^tx 23:46, 25 June 2007 (CDT)

Conservapedia.info, which appears to be the results of an automated blogsearch for 'conservapedia'. --jtl^talk 01:47, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

Just to make your blood boil

Quacks attack. Tmtoulouse 15:32, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

One for the road. Tmtoulouse 15:33, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

I am working through the omnibus trial material now for an article, thats where this is all coming from, I found the completely hearings in audio and pdf transcript form here. These people are insane. Tmtoulouse 15:37, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

Per the liberal lackeys of the CDC, some flu vax are the only vaccines for kids that still contain ANY thimerosal.--PalMD^{-yada yada} 15:46, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

Coincidences are enough to raise eyebrows. My neice has aspergers. She was very intelligent and normal until her vaccines. She is 17 now, and a handful. Coincidence? Possibly. But the way systems work, I am not at all puzzled as to why people worry about such links. (As I said before, another neice recently developed (symptoms of) measles after a vaccine, and ended up hospitalized. Heart♥Gold ^tx 15:49, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

Yes, and in the absence of fear of what the vaccines prevent, all people see to fear are the downsides. And then they look for more... with the diagnosis rate up for Asperger's/Autism, people start to wonder what causes it more. Personally, I was a bit "odd" until my vaccinations (smallpox included, whew), and after them I became somewhat bright and well-adjusted. So ya gots to take the goods with the bads. human^{be in} 15:55, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

The CDC and FDA stance is that thimerosal is safe, it was studied in a nasal spray and contact lense solution, after all. Thimerosal was removed from most vaccines to allay conerns, not for any *real* reasons. Heart♥Gold ^tx 15:51, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

Exactly. And yet, it is still contains a scare word: mercury!!!! human^{be in} 15:55, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

I was being a bit sarcastic. Would you agree to be injected, body weight proportional, the equivalent amount of thimerosal children used to receive? Heart♥Gold ^tx 15:59, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

We have a very nice article Vaccine hysteria that talks about how when you delve deeper beyond mere correlations and anecdotes the evidence is zilch that there is any connection. Tmtoulouse 15:52, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

My stance is that it is reasonable to raise your eyebrows, and to be skeptical of the vaccination industry and their government lackeys. I have no way of knowing if thimerosal (or some other compound) causes autism and related disorders. I have 5 nieces. One has (been diagnosed with) aspergers, the other ended up hospitalized, both correlated in time with vaccines. While possible coincidence, it is also possible that the medical arts blundered. If a real link exists, it wouldn't be the first time a drug received approval that should not have, and it won't be the last. I think even PalMD will agree with this. Heart♥Gold ^tx 15:59, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

But we do have a way to determine whether such a link exists. You examine the evidence and the data, when you look at large numbers of people you find that the rate of autism is the same in both children who have been vaccinated and those who have not. Anecdotal evidence can produce an interesting question, but you don't stop there, you say okay lets answer the question. You can use science to answer it, and we HAVE done that and the evidence is very clear..there is no link. Tmtoulouse 16:05, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

Heart, I appreciate your skepticism and your emotional attachment on the issue, but your neices are two cases; it's hard to really develop a good basis for anything based on 2 cases. ŠтΈṜȳŁЁ^and...? 16:03, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

Thanks, but actually, I became skeptical before either of these occurred. PalMD, if you were in great pain, and had a choice between a brand new drug (just released last week (went through all the trials, etc., coincidentally talked up big time by that cute little drug rep. who brought the office a very nice catered lunch, etc.) and a drug that has been out a much longer time, widely used, and found to be generally safe, which would you want if you could not stand the pain? More importantly, why? Do you trust those cute little drug reps? Do you value widely presribed and known over recently approved? Heart♥Gold ^tx 16:17, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

Also, I babysat an infant who later moved from my area, and died of SIDS, the night, if I remember correctly, the infant/toddler was vaccinated. Memories of this is what got me skeptical, after learning about an electrical engineer (from memory) who noted a strong correlation between vaccination events and sleep apnea. (I think this may very well be coincidence, as some later Japanese studies found, but the first study supposedly was just evaluating a device to detect sleep apnea, not to investigate vaccines.) Anyway, so I have *three* possible brushes with such interactions...not that it is reason to ban vaccines or anything. Heart♥Gold ^tx 16:22, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

One, I adore the cute little drug reps...but I tell every one of them, while I much on my General's Chicken, that unless a drug provides some clear, new benefit, other doctors can experiment on their patients first.162.82.215.199 16:26, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

Good (and responsible) answer. I'll have to delve into the implications later. Heart♥Gold ^tx 16:30, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

I assume you also mean you weigh the risk against the new benefit as well. E.g., if it is life our death versus a recreational perscription, and discuss it with the patient if appropriate. In any event, the implication is that science is not perfect. And that the experiment continues beyond the initial studies. Heart♥Gold ^tx 19:46, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

"the implication is that science is not perfect". Well, no. No one ever claimed it was. But you know what? Compared to alchemy, astrology, the laying on of hands, and well, the universe according to the Bible, it is virtually statistically perfect. The ratio of correct information provided by science to incorrect information provided by non science is almost infinite at this point in history. The same could be said of "cures". human^{be in} 21:02, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

Ah, but PalMD uses a conservative approach to new drugs. I don't hate science, btw. But I am more skeptical than many. Heart♥Gold ^tx 21:05, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

Despite the press, the premarketing research is quite good. The drugs that turn out to be harmful are a small exception. Even when they are taken off the market, it is often because of legal worries rather than science. That being said, I still wait for post marketing research if I can. Sometimes I can't...a drug just provides to much potential benefit to put off using it.--PalMD^{-yada yada} 21:06, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

I undserstand the potential benefit versus risk trade-off, and would do the same if I were an MD. But in my lifetime there have been some pretty disastorous examples (e.g., drug that produced infants with flippers instead of limbs.) Heart♥Gold ^tx 21:10, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

Thalidomide is the classic example, and it is why such rigorous controls are in place now. It happened in the 60s, and not in the US, it was confined to Canada and Europe. It is also the exception. Europe tends to be more liberal, including easier approval of prescription drugs and so-called alternative meds.--PalMD^{-yada yada} 21:12, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

chelators

What would be your interest level in writing up something about the truly evil chelation and Lupron therapy for autism? Tmtoulouse 16:12, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

I added chelation therapy to pseudoscience...and we might want to add the autism-ouija board thing. I 'll have to start looking into it.162.82.215.199 16:26, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

Check out this. Tmtoulouse 19:06, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

Seriously, my first thought was add a little tuna and you have a "fils a la nicoise".--PalMD^{-yada yada} 19:09, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

HIV deniers

I've come across a lot of HIV denier (they deny that AIDS is caused by HIV) related news lately, maybe that would be something for RW to debunk with a couple of articles? One "Dr. Rath" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AP2dpLmdX3E seems to be an important figure here. MiddleMan 16:14, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

Deusberg is the bigwig on this one..Need to add to the to do list.162.82.215.199 16:27, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

No problem

Besides it was your brilliant suggestion on the forum that got me engaged to do something productive myself. Tmtoulouse 18:50, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

My email is EHeartOfGold@yahoo.com. The asian billboard deal might offend somebody. Would be funnier if it said Sweede, but then it would offend a different group. Heart♥Gold ^tx 07:01, 28 June 2007 (CDT)

It's funny. but you're going to offend someone if you're gonna say something that needs to be said (vis à vis Bill Hicks, [[Chris Morris]]). ^ɢяаѕs_yodel^{βЯæкΔωwΝ} 07:12, 28 June 2007 (CDT)

Hey

Hope you don't mind, I go for red herrings such as flouride all the time. If you want to stick to the topic, don't throw me off:) And now for a strange question, what do you think of the Kodak DX4330? Heart♥Gold ^tx 22:22, 29 June 2007 (CDT)

BTW, I received the NEJM article...but wanted the leter. It was marked as spam for some reason. Thanks, if you get a chance, please send the letter you mentioned that rebutted or clarified the study. Heart♥Gold ^tx 23:31, 29 June 2007 (CDT)

Also, thanks for taking the time to discuss vaccines. It might not seem like it, but I do appreciate it. Heart♥Gold ^tx 00:18, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

I included the text of the letter with the article...they should both be there..double check, and if not, ill resend.--PalMD^{-yada yada} 01:05, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

Re: random camera question: I think it is a lot like the model I used to have and it was fine. Why?--PalMD^{-yada yada} 01:07, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

Moonbats!

Doctor doctor - we need your help over at the port bough! ויִכִּ נתֶּרֶפּרֶתֵּר ^{שְׁלֹום!}

Userboxed

I wanna show off my new userbox, and you're on, so you will suffer. ɧєɭıסş^{-get sunburn!} 19:32, 2 July 2007 (CDT)

Well, i did pwn you, so i guess it's ok.--PalMD^{-yada yada} 19:33, 2 July 2007 (CDT)

Conservapedia:Refutations

Thanks for your help in that page. Let's keep writing more...-αmεσG 21:18, 2 July 2007 (CDT)

Yes, let's learn together! It's win-win! Goatspeed! human^{be in} 21:27, 2 July 2007 (CDT)

Human, that was like the funniest fracking thing I've seen all day. Goatspeed indeed. Sorry for sounding like a tool, but the silver lining is we got that comment.-αmεσG 21:28, 2 July 2007 (CDT)

I may have to pwn that.--PalMD^{-yada yada} 22:00, 2 July 2007 (CDT)

Did you gain access to your email account?

Just wanted to know. I have not, but I haven't checked my email. Heart♥Gold ^tx 01:05, 3 July 2007 (CDT)

Hey!

I hereby present you with the quote-fu barn-rectangle, for knowing your
important figures.

Great! Another piece of evidence for my wife in her dissertation of why I am a total geek.--PalMD^-Goatspeed! 13:53, 3 July 2007 (CDT)

You're a doctor. It's fairly inevitable ;-). --ויִכִּ נתֶּרֶפּרֶתֵּר ^{שְׁלֹום!}

Well, im and internist, which makes it inevitable. Some of the other specialists are less geeky.--PalMD^-Goatspeed! 14:17, 3 July 2007 (CDT)

Gun-slinging, trench-coat wearing doctor - not geeky, doctor who, y'know, actually docts - geeky: those lines? --ויִכִּ נתֶּרֶפּרֶתֵּר ^{שְׁלֹום!}

Well, orthopods tend to be big sporty dudes, ophthos tend to be a little nerdy but drive really nice cars. Internists just tend to cogitate vigorously.--PalMD^-Goatspeed! 14:53, 3 July 2007 (CDT)

regarding your "link of the day"

I just went an read that blog post & replies ("circular reasoning"), and it's good stuff. Do you think we should make a file something like "best of the web", or at least "RW:recommended links", to keep things like that all in one place? There could be categories, well known stuff like TO, Randi, etc., general blog links, particular blog post links, etc.

This way, gems like you found would not get lost in the shuffle of time. human^{be in} 17:59, 3 July 2007 (CDT)

Oh, and welcome to Universal health care. I'm too lazy to do any research and fill in details, but I do like describing things. In a fair and balanced way, of course. human^{be in} 20:21, 3 July 2007 (CDT)

I'd like to think maybe we can have a blog link of some kind for blogs like that one, and perhaps get some reciprocal linking.--PalMD^-Goatspeed! 22:59, 3 July 2007 (CDT)

OK, like [[RationalWiki:Blogs we like]] .... human^{be in} 23:13, 3 July 2007 (CDT)

Yeah..something like that, maybe with a link to it on the front page.--PalMD^-Goatspeed! 23:15, 3 July 2007 (CDT)

Yes, when there is more on it. I appreciate your contribution to get it started! human^{be in} 01:34, 4 July 2007 (CDT)

I think we've settled on the name Blogroll. --jtl^talk 00:18, 8 July 2007 (CDT)

This means you?

When a clown causes a problem, he gets exposed for the clown that he is. There are a lot of clowns, and a quack, over at the place where they generated a certain letter, and they all failed. I'm laughing at them right now. Karajou 15:49, 3 July 2007 (EDT) [1] Ol' Popeye is calling you out, seemingly. Not sure about the "letter" but I'm guessing though given the blanking of his page, the retired template and his agressively self-righteous style his vacation was some sort of temper tantrum that for some reason he felt he couldn't vent on CP. Perhaps someone teased him about his anchor tattoo. Obviously, it burns me a bit when some asshole without couth or significant education takes a random swipe as someone who has spent most of his young adult life working towards being something so necessary and altrusitic as doctor.(<-- er . . unless you got a mail order degree like I did . . then scratch all of that you faker!) Where is his sense of scale? ^{Exasperate me!}Sheesh!_{I said what?} 08:26, 4 July 2007 (CDT) --ויִכִּ נתֶּרֶפּרֶתֵּר ^{שְׁלֹום!}

Five internets are being delivered to your mailbox as we speak. --Kels 15:53, 4 July 2007 (CDT)

Don't forget the change of two lolcats and some poorly photoshopped 300 figures! --ויִכִּ נתֶּרֶפּרֶתֵּר ^{שְׁלֹום!}

Does anynoe know what he means by "the letter?" ^{Exasperate me!}Sheesh!_{I said what?} 18:21, 4 July 2007 (CDT)

I could think of two basic options:

1. The open letter somebody here wrote and sent to the LA Times reporter. Karajou claims that it (and not anything he told her, for example) is the reason why the LA Times claims we admit to engage in vandalism. He tried to edit that bit into the Wikipedia entry about CP ([2]), but it was reverted because it was unsourced ([3]). Karajou then outed himself and his reasoning (but not his Conflict of Interest in the form of being a sysop on CP and being one of the people mentioned in the article's section about vandals) on the reverting editor's talkpage ([4]).
2. It might be connected to various sideline mentions of "a letter" in the recent TK/Rob/Conservative drama on CP. But this is basically just a shot in the dark with basically no tangible information, at least as far as I am concerned. --Sid 19:27, 4 July 2007 (CDT)

There was also the "open letter to SharonS", right? So many letters, so few vowels! human^{be in} 19:50, 4 July 2007 (CDT)

Someone's sent Karajou a present -- Stevo (talk) 20:43, 4 July 2007 (CDT)

Sweetness!--PalMD^-Goatspeed! 21:10, 4 July 2007 (CDT)

KooKoo

I don't think this will last long.--PalMD^-Goatspeed! 12:11, 4 July 2007 (CDT)

Yep...so much for the integrity of talk pages.--PalMD^-Goatspeed! 12:11, 4 July 2007 (CDT)

How much cognitive dissonance do you think it creates to claim to not be a coward, claim your detractor is a coward, and then run away and hide in a hole making sure no one can say anything to you? Any objective reading of this situation makes Karajou look out to be a total gutless wimp. He is welcome to prove us wrong and come on over here and engage the "enemy" but he won't. The closest he comes is to make anonymous threats that he told on us to the government. Yes, all school children know screaming "WAAAA! I am telling my mommy on you" is a sure sign of a winner. 24.141.169.255 12:58, 4 July 2007 (CDT)

I just figured the letter was Ames's letter to SS, but who knows what goes on in that shrapnel-addled mind. But he made a pretty clear reference to me, being I'm the only MD (at least that's "out") on the site.--PalMD^-Goatspeed! 20:02, 4 July 2007 (CDT)

Well you know being admitted into a guaranteed admissions school in Tennessee in a department at the bottom of the food chain at said university automatically qualifies him to assess you. 24.141.169.255 20:43, 4 July 2007 (CDT)

don't forget his training as an MP or whatever pretty much makes him on par with sherlocks holmes as well. 20:47, 4 July 2007 (CDT)

~

JebX, and you being demoted

I'm tempted to demote you without asking to sysop, so you can help keep the yapping vandals at bay. Do you have any interest at all? human^{be in} 00:30, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

I'm a bit concerned about being consumed by overwhelming power, but since I can't really do anything that can't be undone, whatever TPTB wish.--PalMD^-Goatspeed! 12:48, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

Well, as far as I can tell, sysop comes with two extra buttons - "delete" and "block". Delete lets you clean up the remains of moved mistitled articles, and block lets you give vandals a time-out. Since you are here a lot, and surely know the interests of the site, I think it would be great to have one more set of good hands on deck for when the likes of JebX pop up and start adding ED templates to everything. Speaking of JebX, those WP links you left on my talk page didn;t work for me, for some reason. I don't want to weigh you down with time-wasting chores when you would be adding/editing, though, either. human^{be in} 13:02, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

I fixed the links on Human's talk page. ɧєɭıסş^{-get sunburn!} 13:05, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

I don't mind doing some cleanup as long as yuo guys keep an I on me to make sure I don't fuck up while I learn the ropes. --PalMD^-Goatspeed! 13:07, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

Walks like a duck, talks like a duck

Karajou started an article on the term "Quack" I would guess as a way of firming up just what he meant by his Quack comment. Libel, personal attacks and parody (in spite of Andy decreeing it as a liberal tool)seem A-Ok at Conservapedia so long as you can block and dissapear the targets of these cowardly attacks. ^{Exasperate me!}Sheesh!_{I said what?} 09:57, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

Calling you a quack just might be libel. You could e-mail him to that effect: he has no problem threatening us, after all.-αmεσg 10:35, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

well he wasn't bold enough to refer to anyone by name, not even to name this site, so who he was talking about is a matter of speculation. He may have been talking about real clowns and his favorite bath toy for all we know. ^{Exasperate me!}Sheesh!_{I said what?} 11:52, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

His refs on his quack entry are to debunking sites that we cite frequently. Don't thnk he bothered to read.--PalMD^-Goatspeed! 12:47, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

Sysop

You had originally declared that you didn't want it....how do you feel now? 24.141.169.255 17:27, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

If folks would find it helpful, i'd be happy to. It was frustrating finding someone to hunt down that sock yesterday. As long as people stop me in my tracks if I fuck up.--PalMD^-Goatspeed! 17:29, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

Done then, let me know, or human, or whoever if you have questions. Tmtoulouse 17:34, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

My condolences on your demotion, Doc! human^{be in} 17:36, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

Fuck.--PalMD^-Goatspeed! 17:49, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

Two PalMD?

There appear to be 2 PalMD ids....Tmtoulouse 18:06, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

You know, at one point Helios pwnd me with an L that was an I...--PalMD^-Goatspeed! 18:07, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

Okay let me see about cleaning this up. Tmtoulouse 18:13, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

TY...but really, no more using my superpowers unless im drunk.--PalMD^-Goatspeed! 18:13, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

Do you still have them? Tmtoulouse 18:15, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

Yes, thank you. I forgot about the pwnage from helios, and the clone account.--PalMD^-Goatspeed! 18:17, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

Whoa....that was a close one but I think the clone is dead. I hope so atleast....hey where is your belly button? Tmtoulouse 18:22, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

You killed the clone? Can you kill Pal's clone of me too? ɧєɭıסş^{-get sunburn!} 19:04, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

Sorry, clone was interfering with...i dont know, something...ill kill my clone of you.--PalMD^-Goatspeed! 19:05, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

Start caring

About me maybe getting demoted to Bureaucrat. ɧєɭıסş^{-get sunburn!} 19:15, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

I'll sit shiva for you. MMMM...kishka....--PalMD^-Goatspeed! 19:16, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

Jeb Wolkington

If he's a sock of Jeb, block him and Jeb for 21 hours? No reason his fibonacci number should go back to one... Д^ιЯɖі$ɧ _ɥοםЄʟ^{βЯƏакĐΩωΝ} 11:34, 6 July 2007 (CDT)

I just slapped him with 2hrs but go ahead and jump it.--PalMD^-Goatspeed! 11:35, 6 July 2007 (CDT)

Will do. Д^ιЯɖі$ɧ _ɥοםЄʟ^{βЯƏакĐΩωΝ} 11:36, 6 July 2007 (CDT)

If its ACD

If its ACD material go ahead and move and delete the redirects. Just make sure you check "what links here" and update those links. Tmtoulouse 21:51, 6 July 2007 (CDT)

Thanks. Since im flexing my superpowers, im a little nervous about fucking it up.--PalMD^-Goatspeed! 21:51, 6 July 2007 (CDT)

Remember to delete the redirect after a move. Tmtoulouse 22:14, 6 July 2007 (CDT)

Fuck.--PalMD^-Goatspeed! 22:14, 6 July 2007 (CDT)

Autism Ouija board

Hey I have some plans for the site, which will hopefully be made clear soon enough, but if your motivated you should move the Autism Ouija board article up a few notches on your to-do list :). Tmtoulouse 20:39, 7 July 2007 (CDT)

Cool, prob in next few days.--PalMD^-Goatspeed! 21:51, 7 July 2007 (CDT)

hey bitch

You cat'd homosexuality with "Articles needing RWification". I thought it was one of our not only prettier, but simply most splendid articles. All I ask is your reasoning? IE, what is it missing? Pictures of gay goats? Cheerio, human^{be in} 22:59, 7 July 2007 (CDT)

Prob. combination of being on call too long and too long away from the goats. Re-cat away.--PalMD^-Goatspeed! 23:11, 7 July 2007 (CDT)