RationalWiki:Chicken coop/Archive24

Rob and ethnic slurs.

Here and here. While it's nice that a basically illiterate man has learned a new word, this kind of behavior is intolerable. P-Foster Talk "Watched Mad Men thinking it was supposed to be a sit-com. Found it disappointing." 00:56, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

A vote is required before you decide to block another member for three months and promote him.--^talk 00:58, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

And a look at what you want to block and promote him over makes me even more puzzled. For calling Mikalos "Mikcholo?" It's an ugly ethnic slur and not a very funny joke, but we're not usually such ironclad PC-Police around here.--^talk 01:00, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

And for using the same slur against Ace, as well as playing the whole "First World" card gain. He's a troll and a dick. P-Foster Talk "Watched Mad Men thinking it was supposed to be a sit-com. Found it disappointing." 01:02, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

(EC) Read the fucking definition from Wikipedia: "Despite, or because of, its long history of denigrating semantics, the term Cholo was turned on its head and used as a symbol of pride in the context of the ethnic power movements of the 1960s." In New Mexico and California where cholos abound, many of my cholo friends would not take kindly to P-Foster's racist attempt to turn the wp:Pachuco tradition into a term of derision. nobs^Moderated 01:11, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Well, I guess we'll let it play out and see if folks think he should be blocked and promoted for those things. I very much doubt it, so if you want this vote to go against him I'd suggest assembling more damning evidence.--^talk 01:07, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

I am getting a bit over it also. Ace^Moderator 01:17, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Poor kid. But guess what? Cholos are your equals as a First Worlder. I know, these things will take time for you to adjust to. nobs^Moderated 01:22, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Seems an OTT response to me, but I wouldn't object to Rob getting brained with the banhammer just for the lulz. -- 01:27, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure why everyone wants to put the kibosh on Rob demonstrating what a shitfucker he is so eloquently. Turpis 3:16 (talk) 01:30, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Because after a while you grow tired of seeing somebody prove they are a shitfucker?--il'Dictator Mikal (talk) 01:34, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Not really, no. --★uːʤɱ libertarian 01:39, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Again, like I said last time - if some ip or new user logged in and started throwing around said terms they'd be dispatched without a second thought, vote or coop. Ace^Moderator 01:37, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

These guys (P-Foster, Ace, Mikalos) are just showing the world how intolerant, obsessed, and power crazed they are, just like Ken Demyer, Andy, TK, and Karajou. I'm only too glad to help. nobs^Moderated 01:40, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

"Ken DeMyer"? Surely you mean "International Man (Or Woman????) Of Mystery Whose Identity Could Never Be Verified By Any Amoral Atheist On a Vandal Site"? Turpis 3:16 (talk) 03:06, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

If I could convince one amoral atheist, you'd have one. nobs^Moderated 03:31, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

"intolerant, obsessed, and power crazed they are"the first is a new one. --il'Dictator Mikal (talk) 03:36, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Whattaya, drinking again? nobs^Moderated 03:47, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

i dont drink. --il'Dictator Mikal (talk) 03:48, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Me neither, at least not between drinks. nobs^Moderated 03:52, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

so about you being a racist fuck?--il'Dictator Mikal (talk) 03:53, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Hmmm, me or Lady Gaga? nobs^Moderated 04:47, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Line crossed. Not trolling, but pure asshole. Block the bastard. sterile^talk 04:14, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

As a sysop, Rob would be able to unblock himself. Blue (pester) 04:16, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

so fix it? --il'Dictator Mikal (talk) 04:17, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Just making sure that was what was meant: de-sysopping and blocking. Blue (is useful) 04:19, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Yes. (Or sysoprevoke, since it's "an option"--albeit one in nebula land.) sterile^talk 04:20, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

(EC) You obviously know nothing of the cultural traditions of the Southwestern United States and territories of the former Spanish Empire, coming from your Anglo-centric world. nobs^Moderated 04:25, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

I am gonna put my mod hat on and say I would support a desysop and revoke. We don't need this shit and it isn't a case of don't feed the troll because Rob pops outta of nowhere, unprompted with this racial bullshit. Ace^Moderator 04:50, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Why did you need to put your mod hat on to say that?Tielec01 (talk) 04:55, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

More official i guess? alsom whats a revoke?--il'Dictator Mikal (talk) 04:57, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

No, no I don't mean to sound official. What I meant was if this was taken to the mods I would support it. Ace^Moderator 05:28, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

You already were slapped down when you used the term Third World as a term of derision. nobs^Moderated

Diffs or it didn't happen. Ace^Moderator 05:57, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Diff links Rob, Diff links. Ace^Moderator 06:14, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

No diffs, ROb - you are dismissed. Ace^Moderator 06:26, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

(EC) Ace, you shouldn't denigrate others cultural identity the same way you denigrate and look down upon the less fortunate as the Third World. Your own words condemn you. nobs^Moderated 05:02, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Rob if this were a trial the prosecution would be havung the easiest case ever,--il'Dictator Mikal (talk) 05:05, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

When did we get so thin skinned (whatever the colour?)

I'm glad I'm retired from here. You're all a bunch of pussies. What? you cannot share your sandbox with kids who're challenged? Find some self-control and just don't respond, (it should be enough that your right). C®ackeЯ 05:03, 10 February 2012 (UTC)'

We have had self control, but eventually a line gets drawn in the sand. --il'Dictator Mikal (talk) 05:05, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

The number one rule of not troll feeding at RationalWiki is that someone always responds. sterile^talk 05:06, 10 February 2012 (UTC) The number two rule is that someone always defends the troll. sterile^talk 05:21, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

As usual, Cracker is right. For a bunch of people who purport to care about your order and rules, you sure are shrill grievance collectors. 06:27, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

You know, I don't think I'd mind being a vagina. F_ucker^{talk to me :D|see my shit} 05:30, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

So in the two threads linked above, Rob compared Mikalos & Ace McWicked to a "cholo". Mik & Ace responded to say no, they're not, & that's pretty much all that happened. It's not a "clear disturbance", or anything that can't be ignored. You want to call Rob out on his racism, go for it. But don't reach for the banhammer just because somebody said a bad word. Ŵêâŝêîôîď^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 08:07, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Indeed. It's pretty clear no additional evidence or defense will be offered - I think it's time for a vote.--^talk 08:50, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

God you're a fucking pussy, AD. It's time for a moderator to moderate and shut this bullshit sideshow down. Jesus fuck how much pointless bickering can you children tolerate? Or are some of you just waiting for an opportunity to whine so others of you can stand around and pontificate or call for a vote on a nonexistent problem. You've got like 3 people here with longstanding issues with Rob and a bunch of other fucking busybodies. If you want to vote on anything it should be whether give Ace, Mikalos, Rob and whoever else injected himself into his mess some boxing gloves and send them out back. You all suck. 17:12, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

--★uːʤɱ socialist 21:19, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

As a mod, shouldn't you be concerned about stopping people from unilaterally blocking each other over and over and causing big shrieking drama fits? There will be a vote, and that will be something to go by.--^talk 21:08, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Nutty isn't a mod anymore. He didn't run in the last election. --★uːʤɱ anti-communist 21:19, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

I've blocked Mikalos maybe three times in a year, and only so I could respond to some bogus charge. He blocks me probably 6-12 times a day, sometimes within two minutes after logging on. nobs^Moderated 21:15, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

"6-12 times a day, sometimes within two minutes after logging on." i log in?--il'Dictator Mikal (talk) 21:24, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Not even close. Want to try again with another stat that can't be easily looked up? Cow...Hammer^time! 21:27, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

In other words, you want this to keep happening over and over Nutty? Thats what happens if we just dismiss this, it keeps happening, over and over in a little circle of Rob saying racist/bigoted statements, people going "wtf" blocking him; maybe brining it to coop for it to be shut down again, rinse and repeat.; and then eventually we get more HCM. Doing nothing brings only the same bullshit we see right now up again and again.--il'Dictator Mikal (talk) 17:22, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Of fuck you and blaming "HCM" on Rob. You're the one repeatedly blocking him for pissing you off. And what am I supposed to want to see keep happening? Bullshit coops over people wanting to block someone for shit that's not against he rules? Fuck that. Stop rising to the bait and poking the man with a stick. How old are you? 17:28, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Ok, dismiss it, it'll pop up again nutty; this is... what, the third coop attempt/mod thing related to rob in the last 2 weeks? Obviously ingoring the issue IS NOT working. --il'Dictator Mikal (talk) 17:32, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Oh, please don't ban/demote nobs. I mean, this site is so much more fun with him around to amuse us. Sarah Parker (talk) 10:52, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

What's being proposed here, a MC-style ban? Yeah, Rob's a dick, but I don't see that as a bannable offense. I could potentially see something like a 24 or 48 hour block for using a racial slur, but not a ban. Keep in mind, we have evidence that we're dealing with someone who isn't really all there. Turpis 3:16 (talk) 14:23, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

I'd be perfectly willing to vote for a temporary ban for the racial slurs; and a promise to, you know, stop it. Not doing anything just means we'll be here again soon enough. --il'Dictator Mikal (talk) 16:02, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Reminds me of a scene from "30 Rock":

• 'Tracy is a buffoon.'
• 'That's a 15th-century term for black pirate! Racist!'

You're all a bunch of dickbag pussies. Occasionaluse (talk) 17:35, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Proposal

To appease those who think something should be done about Rob's dickishness and use of slurs, but without overreacting and banning him, what do people think about a 48 hour block? I'm not terribly excited about it myself, but it would bring some sort of resolution here, and would give Rob at least some consequences. Shall we put it to a quick straw poll? Why the fuck not? So state your preference below. Or don't. See if I care. Turpis 3:16 (talk) 20:14, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Yea, block the bastard for 48 hours

1. Simnce not much more seems to be coming from this, A 48 hour block for Racist slurs seems good. He gets to stay and those who want some form of punishment, well, get some form of punishment for rob. --il'Dictator Mikal (talk) 21:13, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Nay, leave the fuck alone

1. As Rob said, Cholo isn't really an offensive word anymore. Get with the times and stop being a bunch of faggots. Occasionaluse (talk) 21:17, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
2. Neh. --★uːʤɱ pervert 21:20, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
3. Silly, people have said more offensive things in this very discussion, as has been amply shown. We don't need a p.c. police state.--^talk 21:39, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
4. Tempest in a teapot. He's done worse and we're just feeding his martyr complex. Cow...Hammer^time! 21:57, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
5. Wěǎšěǐǒǐď^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 22:14, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
6. --Bob^{Spring is sprung!} 17:23, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Goat

• Cholo is about as offensive as Tejano; what a Hip hopper is to a Country Western fan. [1] nobs^Moderated 20:47, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

AceMcWicked

Hard to believe he's done it again, just as with Third World. Takes a term of ethnic pride and calls it "racial bullshit". Wikipedia says of Peruvian Pres. wp:Alejandro Toledo,

“”Toledo was running to become Peru's first indigenous president. Referring to himself as the cholo throughout his campaign, many indigenous Peruvians hoped that he would be an advocate for indigenous issues in office. Toledo's background, engaging manner, and informal attitude made him an attractive candidate to both indigenous and non-indigenous Peruvians.

But Ace calls this "racial bulshit". The man's an embarrassment to Rationalwiki. nobs^Moderated 06:10, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

you know you're the only one not calling it racist, right rob?--il'Dictator Mikal (talk) 06:21, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

I don't think its racist, Rob is using racial slurs and stereotypes as a term of abuse. Ace^Moderator 06:22, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

should rephrase what i said to "bad" and not "good"--il'Dictator Mikal (talk) 06:24, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Imagine if it were this word instead. Robbie, you're being an insufferable asshole again. Osaka Sun (talk) 06:31, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

If anything, in the United States the term is more akin wp:Gangsta, in other former territories of the Spanish Empire outside the United States, wp:hillbilly. nobs^Moderated 17:56, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Rob calls Mikalos a cholo and claims it's not racist, Ace deletes word Cholo from article, saying it's racist. So Rob squeals on Ace. Fuck off Rob, you deceitful, hypocritical tossbag. You are a disgrace. Let's close this one now. Sophie (talk) 06:45, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Ace deleted what? I never said anything was racist. Its a racial slur. Ace^Moderator 06:48, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

@Ace - my bad, early morning editing phail. Sophie (talk) 07:38, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Jesus, why don't we just ban this guy already. F_ucker^{talk to me :D|see my shit} 06:50, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Fuck you. The next time RW bans someone for "trolling" is the day it has no right to criticize authoritarianism. 07:01, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

That arguement is terribly flawed and wrong.--il'Dictator Mikal (talk) 07:02, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

(EC)Oh god no more of this "banning trolls is TEH CENSORSHIP" bollocks. It's why we let Maratrean and similar shitheads piss all over the wiki. Sophie (talk) 07:07, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

The day a private website stops someone from causing a clear disturbance is the day that website has learned how to use what I like to call 'common sense'. F_ucker^{talk to me :D|see my shit} 07:05, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

It's not authoritarian to ban people because they are saying things you don't like!Tielec01 (talk) 07:11, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Yep. That's why we should never ban people -- because if you ban people from your site, you become authoritarian, and that's terrible. F_arter^{talk to me :D|see my shit} 07:12, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Rob's argument is of the 'you think it's pejorative, therefore you're the racist one' variety - do we have an article on that by any chance? Peter ^{Monomorium antarcticum} 07:26, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

if we dont, we should--il'Dictator Mikal (talk) 07:27, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Faux maturity? Feigned progressiveness? F_litzer^{talk to me :D|see my shit} 07:30, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Apparently reverse racism is something else - that would've been my thought. Peter ^{Monomorium antarcticum} 07:32, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Tu quoque? Hmm, not that either. It's part of the general muddying of the waters that the right wing is currently fond of. Rennie McGreet (talk) 08:37, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

If it can be assumed that MC was simply a troll without a jot of belief in what he was saying and whose sole purpose was to cause trouble then the community decision in that case was fine. In the case of Rob, Maratrean and brxbrx people are using the word troll to mean 'someone I disagree with'. If it makes you feel better that you are talking about banning a 'troll' rather than banning someone for not buying into the ideological hegemony of the dominant culture then continue as is. However, if you are interested in being intellectually consistent then allow them to make their, admittedly often asinine, comments without censorship, bullying or intimidation. I notice people will scream and shout when someone brings a popular member (eg. Ace) to the coop for his transgressions, but when somebody that nobody likes (eg. Rob) is cooped everyone loses their passion for tolerating dissenting opinion, with some notable exceptions (eg. Nutty). If your enjoyment of this wiki is so leveraged on everyone agreeing with you then in my opinion you can fuck off and you won't be missed (I'm sure you feel the same way about me). Mikalos can go with you and suck your shit straight out of your arsehole.Tielec01 (talk) 08:08, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

You were doing well until the bit about fucking off & sucking shit. ΨΣΔξΣΓΩΙÐ^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 08:11, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Rob is very much wrong in his assertions, and he may well be racist and trolling. We should not ban or revert him for it, however. Peter ^{Monomorium antarcticum} 08:17, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Is this really coop stuff? Racial abuse/terminology etc are something to discuss on talk pages, editing a page in a way someone else dislikes is part of being a wiki. What kind of admin abuse has gone on that the coop needs to deal with it? even the blocking-in-anger from last night was something that the blockee could undo. Rennie McGreet (talk) 08:18, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

From above: "...general abuse (such as trolling, wandalism, and personal attacks), and conflicts which cannot be solved through normal talk page discussion..." But again, I do think both of these threads should be 'moderated' like the previous round was. Peter ^{Monomorium antarcticum} 08:25, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Show me the talk page where this situation was discussed, and why that method failed to work. Then I'll accept that, yes, this is a coop matter. Rennie McGreet (talk) 08:34, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

I'd like to direct everyone to this. This shows how stupid the 'you can't ban him or you'll be a fascist!' people are. F_lubber^{talk to me :D|see my shit} 14:56, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Evidence of rights abuse

• [2][3][4][5][6][7] nobs^Moderated 13:25, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

He was reprimanded for the first because it was unilateral, the second him reverting his own edits, and the rest all happened in SEPTEMBER, which, if you wanted to complain, would have been a much better time then waiting 5 months. --il'Dictator Mikal (talk) 13:48, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

You know the scenes in the Peanuts cartoons when adults talks and all the kids hear is "Wah-wah-wah, wah-wah-wah-wah." sterile^talk 14:44, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

What Ace did was a violation. Is there a statute of limitations? Occasionaluse (talk) 14:48, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

I've been patient. I've been forgiving. Recently we've heard of personal difficulties and tragedies that may explain his brusque and aggressive manner -- and I certainly can understand that. But when the Community decides in the next Mod elections, his KenDemyerlike obsession with people and things that don't agree with him should not be overlooked. nobs^Moderated 20:00, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Interesting points, Rob. Cow...Hammer^time! 20:05, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

as the person who brought this up...

It's obvious that either 1. My aspie/neurotic self is too thin-skinned for teh srs bzns of teh internets or 2. you are all far to willing to put up with a malicious, unintelligent troll who brings nothing of value to the community. Either way, I guess there's no point in keeping this going. I'll try my best to stay off of pages where Rob goes, before I have a fucking stroke from reading his base stupidity and mean-spirited ramblings. P-Foster Talk "Watched Mad Men thinking it was supposed to be a sit-com. Found it disappointing." 22:12, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

It would be nice if he'd go back to CP or find a new hobby or something. Refugee^{talk page} 02:44, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

So why not make him? Sophie (talk) 11:38, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

P-Foster, Having trouble with the thought that this planet may be inhabited by people who are different from you? Love, XX nobs^Moderated 12:46, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

If by "different from me" you mean "unintelligent, small-minded, mean-spirited, petty, bigoted, functionally illiterate, unable to keep a conversation on track, dim-witted, ignorant, mendacious, deceitful, and stupid enough to broadcast his porn preferences all over the internet," then, yeah, I don't like sharing the planet with people like that. P-Foster Talk "Watched Mad Men thinking it was supposed to be a sit-com. Found it disappointing." 15:15, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

My porn preference? I bought a flash drive from a cholo and didn't delete his porn preferences properly. That's how that happened. nobs^Moderated 16:24, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Somebody call an emergency, I'm about to die of irony. --★uːʤɱ digital native 13:02, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Time to archive this nonsense

Agreed? Ace^Moderator 20:02, 11 February 2012 (UTC)