Talk:Neo-Nazism

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This ought to be an article. The Nazism article it redirects to doesn't even mention Neo-Nazis. WëäŝëïöïďWeaselly.jpgMethinks it is a Weasel 13:52, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

BoN rant[edit]

Why are you comparing conservatism with Neo-Nazism when many conservative Christians are very pro-Israel and very pro-Jewish, whereas Neo-Nazis are not and never will be. Conservatives favor less government, neo nazis don't. Conservatives believe in equality. Neo-Nazis don't.

Conservatives believe in freedom of choice and less restrictions on freedom, Neo Nazis don't. Stop comparing Conservatives to Nazis and American conservativism to Naziism because Nazis were not patriotic, like conservatives are who love their country and want to preserve their freedom and want to have gun ownership, something Nazis don't have.

They are not the same and never will be. They are a far-left phenomenon that hates anyone that is not one of them or a communist. Conservatives hate commies because commies want dictatorships.

Conservatives hate commies because commies want a dictatorship and want to impose strict government regulation, like Nazis do and the two just are not the same.

Stop comparing the two!— Unsigned, by: 71.116.34.150 / talk / contribs

Apparently you have failed to notice that the "comparison" is explicitly put under "fallacious use" and explains that it is wrong to use it as a smear word. Did you bother to read the article at all?
As for the rest of your arguments... it is ironic that you protest the comparison and then immediately label the Nazis "far-left phenomenon".
Anyway, the presence of that section of the article itself is a strawman, though I'm not going to clean that toilet...--ZooGuard (talk) 19:33, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
From what I can tell, Nazism doesn't fit very well on the usual left/right dynamic. And since every hates the Nazis, it's a scramble to associate them with anyone and everyone you disagree with. Yeah, it's a toilet alright and not many people are up to cleaning it. ADK...I'll dance your clock! 20:48, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

National-socialists were "leftists" in being, well, socialists (albeit with a highly questionable sense of who should be part of the society and what should be done with those who do not), but they were also socially conservatives (so were the communists in many places anyway). And conservatives are not exactly the poster-boys of freedom, only if within a cinically delineated sense of freedom, like you're totally free to not have sex untill you're married with someone of the opposite sex, and to not sell marijuana and get arrested for it. --Skepticool (talk) 03:44, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

"Nazis were not patriotic" I'm calling Poe's. Either that, or I don't want to live on this planet anymore

Fascism[edit]

Fascism was lauded as a "third way." A strong central government with great control over businesses still private alongside fierce nationalism. It was all compounded by a reckless disregard for individual rights. Fascism fits the bill of Authoritarianism on that politics chart quite well.--"Shut up, Brx." 21:13, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

"racial realist atheism"?![edit]

I don't get what "racial realism" has to do with "atheism", to me it sounds the same as speaking of "steady-state cosmology atheism", or "string theory atheism", or "neo-lamarckist atheism". To me it seems that what is really meant is that they're atheists, and their political views derive from their notions of biology. I don't think that the label "racial realist atheism" really fits here, to me it would describe an atheism whose logical wiring was something weird like "there are races, therefore there are no gods".

Furthermore, many of the non-atheist neo-nazis/similars hold similar, if not identical, biological notions, it's not all founded in the supernatural (I think it's only rarely the case). And by the way, the reasoning against their line of thinking is flawed: if all human races went extinct but one, or even 1/4 of one or so, it would not be "crippled" anymore than this sub-population is already "crippled" (and is arguable that no population is "crippled" in such way, even populations as small as one of a city or village). The "races" are not constantly intermingling (and yet remaining distinct somehow) in order to avoid extinction by "racial inbreeding"; they're effectively (or roughly) isolated (not meaning that they can't produce offspring with each other!) for thousands of years. Even the populations/races with the least genetic diversity (like Native-Americans) do not suffer from some sort of racial-level "genetic poverty" that puts their continuity at risk. So even if for some reason there was only a fraction of a single race remaining alive, it wouldn't guarantee humanity an early extinction, at least not more than the sheer number decline with more or less proportional continuity of "racial" lines. That is, if something like a large meteor hit the Earth, perhaps less numerous humankind would have reduced odds of surviving (not that a large population is not also dangerous to our long-term survival as well), but that's irrespective of the racial composition of humankind. Not that there's no relevance whatsoever, but it's more or less only that each race would be roughly more fit to survive wherever they've originated, but it's far more accurate to speak only about pigmentation than "race", since pigmentation seems to be the main selective factor (not the only, but only a handful of racial traits are products of natural selection, besides skin color, perhaps the most important is nose aperture, according to some research I recall). I think it's also troublesome to say that they all believe that whites and non-whites are different species, as that is not an universal view AFAIK. And also the refutation of not being different species is something that some of them could easily "refute" as the fertility criterion is not required for all concepts of species, there are many different species that can produce fertile offspring with other species of the same genus, and even closely-related genera.

I think that such summary of their position is bad as they can easily argue it's a straw-man. More or less the same way that more sophisticated creationists (like IDists) could take advantage of a definition of creationists that lump them all with the most naïve ones. "Hah, those evolutionists, they're so outdated on the advances of creationism. Creationism, or creation science, indeed once believed that the Earth was flat, but over the years it has been found the the Bible really says that the Earth is round. Not only that, but our argument for Design didn't stop with Paley (unlike evolutionists who are still stuck with Darwin), but as our knowledge advanced in areas such as genetics (founded by Gregor Mendel, a priest) and molecular biology (which Darwin didn't know, to be fair to him), the evidence for Design just kept piling up. And evolutionists seem to just ignore that, they're blinded in their orthodoxy..." — Unsigned, by: 201.1.54.189 / talk / contribs 20:13, 22 September 2012‎ (UTC)

...[edit]

Did you just call me a Neo-Nazi? That is unacceptable. XY007 (talk) 09:14, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

What? Narky SawtoothNarky.png (Nyar~) 12:45, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Inbreeding[edit]

Isn't the proposed "Aryan" racial category basically broad enough that it includes most indigenous northern and western Europeans? I really can't see this causing significant inbreeding problems in and of itself. Consider Iceland or Mormon Utah or any of the various other experiments history has made of putting thousands of ethnically similar people in a remote location with a tendency towards breeding within their own? The "Aryan" race includes something like 300 or 400 million people globally, and considering that it formed in the first place, that either implies all indigenous people are going to be severely inbred, or that the "Aryan race" is significantly less diverse than, for example, the "Japanese race," which seems highly unlikely. What of the Australian aborigines who had essentially isolated themselves off from all outside contact for tens of thousands of years? If we brought an infant of that group into a modern Australian city, would they be limited to basic tasks due to millennia of inbreeding? I seriously doubt it. Inbreeding doesn't really cause problems for hundreds of thousands or millions of people. — Unsigned, by: 70.197.15.143 / talk / contribs

You may want to look into the genetic conditions which plague Amish and old order Mennonite communities (specifically the high incidence of congenital SIDS). There are specialist clinics set up JUST to address the problems with inbreeding in these communities.
Also different definitions of Aryan exist. Originally it would include only a sub-set of Persians, but the Nazi ideal gene pool was decidedly Germanic. Hence the forced breeding programs in Northern Europe. — Unsigned, by: 81.145.153.190 / talk / contribs
sure, but I'm saying white northern European because that's what neonazis want. Amish communities are something else, since we're talking about groups of tens to a few hundred people living together. Remember that in the distant past, people from vastly different parts of the world did not encounter each other. Further still, look at the number of people who's ancestry today stems from all one continent? These people aren't inbred. Norway has something like 5 million people, and even though the vast majority of Norwegians have hundreds of years of ancestry from basically just Norway, inbreeding doesn't seem to cause significant harm there, at least, not because the people are vaguely close genetically. 81.145.153.190
Remember that prehistorically, the human population was single digit millions. Nonhuman primates get along just fine with populations of tens of thousands. Of nature required billions for a species to be healthy, that species would not exist. — Unsigned, by: 73.25.110.186 / talk / contribs
Your idea that Norway has been genetically homogeneous even for the last couple of centuries is cute, but flat out wrong. There were about as many visibly "black" people in Roman Britain (probably more) as there are in Britain today. And You might remember that little episode of Norwegian history called the Viking Age? You know, with the conquering and the trading and the pillaging and the pilfering and the plundering and oh yeah - the raping. Do you really think no Viking ever went to Constantinople (where Vikings served in the Imperial Guard) and took home a beautiful woman from there? That fiction that people in ancient times sat on their cowhides and never moved either for business or pleasure is just that. Fiction. The German Kaiser had a soldier with nice last name "Sabak el Sher". His descendants proved to be a proud line of military musicians for Germany in its various political systems. They still have that last name, but they lack their ancestor's phenotypical "black" features. "Race" is more complicated than you seem to make it. And yes, there is ample genetic evidence to suggest that "mixed race" people are actually genetically advantageous. Most genetic diseases are recessive traits. Some genetic diseases (the most well known case is probably sickle cell anemia) cluster in certain regions, sometimes because they provide some benefit if only one allele is defective and the other isn't. So mixing the genes of diverse people actually has a non-negligible chance of producing offspring with a higher fitness than either parent. We know that because we observe it in plants and animals on a almost daily basis. That's what the "hybrid" in "hybrid seeds" is about.. And now you can go back to forking your second cousin to further the Aryan race. Goatspeed. What do you mean arguing for the sake of argument? 01:59, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
Goodpost.gif Reverend Black Percy (talk) 02:00, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Speaking of inbreeding[edit]

Learn to sign, guys. Learn to sign. On talk pages, please sign your comments using four tildes (~~~~) or by clicking on the sign button: SigButt.png on the toolbar above the edit panel. You can also indent successive talk page comments using one more colon (:) for each line. Thank you. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 01:38, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for your work, kind Reverend. Being able to see which random string of numbers wrote what makes it much easier on the eyes. Th hug.gif What do you mean arguing for the sake of argument? 01:47, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
Thanks! Somebody's gotta be the Ombudsman around these parts. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 01:50, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
Don't get too Ombud, though ;-) What do you mean arguing for the sake of argument? 02:00, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
Don't make me ask you to get off your moped and show me your license and registration. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 02:01, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
License? What's a license? Do you mean the bribe-wrap? I am not the Ombud's man 02:05, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Nazism is caused by 4chan?[edit]

One of the reasons why neo-fascism is on the rise

Is it?

is because more kids are growing up with the internet

Are you seriously claiming that Nazism is caused by 4chan jokes? Hmmph (talk) 02:27, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
Hello? It's the information autobahn! Reverend Black Percy (talk) 02:34, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
And 4chan/8chan are infamous Geisterfahrer (ghost drivers)!--The (((Kigel))) (talk) (mail) 02:43, 29 September 2016 (UTC) 02:43, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
Ahhhh. Germans. They are even worse than +++Nordics+++ I am not the Ombud's man 16:03, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
Though I hear (((certain people))) are even worse still... Reverend Black Percy (talk) 16:58, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
Slander! It's the Nordics, I'm tellin' ya. (BTW, this is probably getting to the territory where we might want to affix Poe's law warnings) I am not the Ombud's man 18:09, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
The Nordics are a clever ruse of the prison masters! (Yes, most likely. Is there a suitable template?) Reverend Black Percy (talk) 19:07, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
How about a template turning the crosses into Scandinavian flags? I am not the Ombud's man 19:17, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
I'd prefer a looping gif template where the Scandiavian flags morph into the Star of David as a reptilian H.W. Bush squirms in the background. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 19:23, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
I'd thought more along the lines of a random assortment of danish, norwegian, icelandic and finnish flags... Or something. I don't know. I am not the Ombud's man 20:16, 29 September 2016 (UTC)