User talk:Luigifan18/Fun:Progress & Regress Pokémon
Proper namespace?
I'm seriously not sure what namespace this page is best off in: userspace, funspace, or essayspace. Right now, I'm splitting the difference by having both the userspace and funspace tags in the title and the essay header, but I can't help thinking that I should commit to one of the three. Thoughts? --Luigifan18 (talk) 14:13, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
- Fun space if you want others to edit it in the future, essay space if you want this to be a personal project. GeeJayKWhere all evil dwells Where every lie is true 14:19, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
- Go with the first half of what GeeJayK said. Move it to funspace. Spud (talk) 14:39, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
- I would go for essayspace. Funspace article have sometimes been deleted on the basis that they are "not funny". In a few years' time, if you are not around to defend your objectives, it would be more likely to survive in Essayspace.Bob"Life is short and (insert adjective)" 15:08, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
- I do also like the idea of having it in my userspace… hm. --Luigifan18 (talk) 15:21, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
- It would also be a safe place for it.Bob"Life is short and (insert adjective)" 20:50, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
- I do also like the idea of having it in my userspace… hm. --Luigifan18 (talk) 15:21, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
- I would go for essayspace. Funspace article have sometimes been deleted on the basis that they are "not funny". In a few years' time, if you are not around to defend your objectives, it would be more likely to survive in Essayspace.Bob"Life is short and (insert adjective)" 15:08, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
- Go with the first half of what GeeJayK said. Move it to funspace. Spud (talk) 14:39, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
Notes
I'll admit I haven't read 1/3 of this piece (I haven't playned any Pokémon game since Gold and Silver, more than 20 years ago, and the last time I watched the show, Ash was still in Johto). I think there are too many notes that are too distractive. In my opinion, the author should either move some of them to the main text, or delete at least a few of them, in order to make the page more readable. GeeJayKWhere all evil dwells Where every lie is true 14:47, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
- Like with my mini-essays, the point of notes is to not distract from the main text. You can either mouse over them to open them up if you want the extra details, or ignore them if you don't. --Luigifan18 (talk) 14:58, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
- …But in all seriousness, are there any notes in particular that you can point at as being unnecessary? I'll admit that I can have trouble separating wheat from chaff when it comes to writing. --Luigifan18 (talk) 03:56, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
Theme song trouble
I'm having trouble thinking of battle themes for some of the Progress & Regress Pokémon. I would like songs that fit in with the symbolism of the Pokémon: for instance, Creikipath would need a song about alternative medicine, Noharkaiak would need a song about Noah's Ark, and Legandeeract would need a song about pseudolaw practitioners such as freemen on the land. --Luigifan18 (talk) 01:33, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Welp, I found something for Legandeeract… --Luigifan18 (talk) 15:11, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
constructive criticism
the final showdown you envision is that progressives should team up with virulent racists and nazis to fight the greatest threat humankind has ever known, communism? have you not thought that through? think through why you can imagine finding peace with the proud boys and with people who want to genocide immigrants but a hammer and sickle turns your vision red. one of the most insanely reactionary fangame ideas ive ever seen 2601:602:8C82:BA40:B71F:A2F6:62C:B34D (talk) 10:27, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
- Lmao that's the endgame? That's fucking wild. Carthage (talk) 01:17, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
- …This is one of the most laughably transparent attempts at concern trolling I've seen so far on this site. This BON is clearly trying to mock me and get under my skin… and yet, they have made a valid point, and it presents me with the opportunity to elaborate on why I made some of the choices that I did. The ideologies and ideas represented by the Regress Pokémon are idiotic, illogical, potentially dangerous, and — in some cases — flat-out reprehensible. Gameplay aside and speaking from a pure narrative standpoint, it sounds like associating with them is a terrible idea that can't possibly end well. In fact, that was my original intention for how the story would end. Depending on the game version, either the Progress Pokémon would seal the Regress Pokémon away so they couldn't cause any more trouble and begin to build a utopia, or the Regress Pokémon would murder the Progress Pokémon and start wreaking godawful havoc (with the player being relentlessly guilt-tripped for helping to make that happen).
- The problem is that this flies in the face of the established tone of the Pokémon series, which goes out of its way to state that there's no such thing as a truly evil Pokémon. Even the most vicious and dangerous of these creatures can be befriended and cared for and turned into a loyal companion (or, conversely, abused to the point of becoming an unhinged menace to everyone and everything). Also, the story I'm writing is a follow-up to Pokémon Black & White, and a major theme of that story was the complexity of social issues and how drastic and simple-minded "solutions" (such as, say, segregation) really aren't capable of solving any problems (and also that sociopaths can and will exploit the simple-minded to advance their own selfish agendas, but I digress).
- Take Giratina in Pokémon Legends Arceus. It starts the story full of rage and hate towards Arceus for its banishment before the events of the game, and teams up with Volo to take that rage and hate out on the entire world in the hopes of drawing Arceus out for a confrontation. By all accounts, Giratina is pretty evil here. But once the final battle comes to hand and the player character fights Giratina and wins, Giratina is humbled and starts to rethink its worldview. Then the player character seeks Giratina out to fight it again and catch it and befriend it, and Giratina starts mellowing out through journeying with the player character. By the time of Pokémon Platinum, Giratina has developed into a benevolent creature who's willing and able to step in to protect the world from threats like Cyrus.
- The point of my new endgame is that maybe, just maybe, something similar can happen with the Regress Pokémon. It won't be easy, but if a sufficiently skilled, compassionate, and benevolent Trainer can beat and catch them and win their respect, it might get them to reconsider their toxic worldviews and change for the better, just like Giratina did. Heck, even Revladutchyu — the common enemy that spurs the Progress and Regress Pokémon into a truce — isn't really evil. It's a well-intentioned ideology that didn't take every variable into account and went off the rails into utter madness as a result of trying to do things in a way that they couldn't be done. Yes, this is a bit cheesy and idealistic, but that's just how Pokémon rolls. Now, if I was telling this story through a medium such as Digimon, Temtem, or Palworld, things might be a little different. 😜 --Luigifan18 (talk) 01:34, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
- Why do you underline instead of italicize the names of works of fiction? To me, it looks stupid Ioe bidome (talk) 01:45, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
- Partially because it's the style I was taught in English class, partially because it reserves italics for emphasis. --Luigifan18 (talk) 01:51, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
- To further address the original "constructive criticism", I think this BoN wasn't paying attention to the Saloon Bar a few months ago, where I explicitly acknowledged that communism might not be the best candidate for the common enemy of
rationalists and regressivesthe reality-based community and reactionaries (in fact, it's kind of lousy in that role in a few ways) and asked for advice on better ideas. None were forthcoming, so… it's not ideal, but it's the best I've got. --Luigifan18 (talk) 15:10, 28 August 2024 (UTC)- Why exactly do you think there needs to be an "alliance of 'rationalists' and reactionaries"? This entire thing seems confused. Carthage (talk) 15:47, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
- Given that it's Pokémon, in context, it's less "alliance of rationalists and reactionaries" (though it does start that way, albeit more out of necessity than anything else) and more "local kid wins the respect of everyone involved in the conflict and works on changing the bad guys into better
peoplesentient creatures through the power of friendship and compassion". --Luigifan18 (talk) 16:20, 28 August 2024 (UTC)- That’s a nice idea for children’s fiction, but in real life with real life ideologies, many and perhaps most people are too far gone.
Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 16:49, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
- In real life, Nazis tend to put both leftists and liberals to the wall. Carthage (talk) 17:50, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
- …Yes, I freaking know that. Given the massive amount of overlap between Neo-Nazis and Christian fundies these days, it's safe to say that "complete inability to tolerate the existence of opinions that aren't 100% identical to one's own, or the people who hold those opinions, or people from ethnic backgrounds other than one's own" is a huge component of modern fascism. (Cleragate is the embodiment of that sort of virulent hatred of the "other".) Still, I'd like to think that there's a better way to deal with the problem of Neo-Nazism than going full frothing Dimitri and killing every last one of them. That kind of shit would make us no better than the Nazis. Like, I dunno, if we try hard and long enough, maybe we can break down the psychological defenses of at least a handful of them and get them to realize that their worldview is wrong and lashing out at minorities won't make their lives any better. (Delusion Destroyer was largely borne out of that sort of hope.) --Luigifan18 (talk) 20:10, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
- By engaging with them you give them a platform. That's a waste of time, since you could spend a lot more effort doing genuinely useful shit like serving as an escort for abortion clinics or whatever, than you could by "reaching out" to some Nazi who only wants to use you for a microphone. Take away that microphone and they become a lot less relevant. Carthage (talk) 20:14, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
- …Yes, I freaking know that. Given the massive amount of overlap between Neo-Nazis and Christian fundies these days, it's safe to say that "complete inability to tolerate the existence of opinions that aren't 100% identical to one's own, or the people who hold those opinions, or people from ethnic backgrounds other than one's own" is a huge component of modern fascism. (Cleragate is the embodiment of that sort of virulent hatred of the "other".) Still, I'd like to think that there's a better way to deal with the problem of Neo-Nazism than going full frothing Dimitri and killing every last one of them. That kind of shit would make us no better than the Nazis. Like, I dunno, if we try hard and long enough, maybe we can break down the psychological defenses of at least a handful of them and get them to realize that their worldview is wrong and lashing out at minorities won't make their lives any better. (Delusion Destroyer was largely borne out of that sort of hope.) --Luigifan18 (talk) 20:10, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
- In real life, Nazis tend to put both leftists and liberals to the wall. Carthage (talk) 17:50, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
- That’s a nice idea for children’s fiction, but in real life with real life ideologies, many and perhaps most people are too far gone.
- Given that it's Pokémon, in context, it's less "alliance of rationalists and reactionaries" (though it does start that way, albeit more out of necessity than anything else) and more "local kid wins the respect of everyone involved in the conflict and works on changing the bad guys into better
- Why exactly do you think there needs to be an "alliance of 'rationalists' and reactionaries"? This entire thing seems confused. Carthage (talk) 15:47, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
- To further address the original "constructive criticism", I think this BoN wasn't paying attention to the Saloon Bar a few months ago, where I explicitly acknowledged that communism might not be the best candidate for the common enemy of
- Partially because it's the style I was taught in English class, partially because it reserves italics for emphasis. --Luigifan18 (talk) 01:51, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
- Why do you underline instead of italicize the names of works of fiction? To me, it looks stupid Ioe bidome (talk) 01:45, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
- The point of my new endgame is that maybe, just maybe, something similar can happen with the Regress Pokémon. It won't be easy, but if a sufficiently skilled, compassionate, and benevolent Trainer can beat and catch them and win their respect, it might get them to reconsider their toxic worldviews and change for the better, just like Giratina did. Heck, even Revladutchyu — the common enemy that spurs the Progress and Regress Pokémon into a truce — isn't really evil. It's a well-intentioned ideology that didn't take every variable into account and went off the rails into utter madness as a result of trying to do things in a way that they couldn't be done. Yes, this is a bit cheesy and idealistic, but that's just how Pokémon rolls. Now, if I was telling this story through a medium such as Digimon, Temtem, or Palworld, things might be a little different. 😜 --Luigifan18 (talk) 01:34, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
Oops
Did I refer to BaeFakemon as a female in the Saloon Bar previously? I have a niggling feeling that I did. They're actually non-binary. Sorry about that. --Luigifan18 (talk) 16:11, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
There are 2️⃣7️⃣5️⃣ refnotes
275. Two-hundred seventy-five. What's worse is that they're poorly written (a lot these begin with the phrase "yes,".) and do the opposite of what this guy is attempting to do: just dribbling out incoherent nonsense from this user's flailing lack of confidence in their own prose. Merely scrolling through this list is sheer Timecube insanity. Why stop there? Why don't these refnotes have refnotes in them?
Can we keep this page and slap drive-by or Category:Unremitting horror or whatever the equivalent there is for insane pages, just for these horrific refnotes alone. I'm stunned. --It's-a me, 
🎄LeftyGreenMario!🎄 21:13, 27 September 2024 (UTC)
- It's still a work in progress, and the ref notes serve to go further in-depth on my thought processes or more Pokémon-related stuff. I actually took out a few that I felt were redundant or worked better elsewhere. --Luigifan18 (talk) 21:43, 27 September 2024 (UTC)
- 2️⃣7️⃣8️⃣ Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 18:17, 30 September 2024 (UTC)
- Like I said, work in progress. And there are several cases where two refnotes could be condensed into one, but then that one refnote would be outrageously long. --Luigifan18 (talk) 20:03, 30 September 2024 (UTC)
- It’s not about the ref notes, my man. It’s about us criticizing your weird, stream-of-consciousness, always explain the joke writing style you have. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 20:54, 30 September 2024 (UTC)
- Okay, fair enough, I do tend to go overboard with that. And there may still be some ref notes that aren't really necessary; I would need more time to identify those and root them out. Still, since this is largely my thing, I feel the need to explain my creative process, like when I feel that my reasoning for certain choices may not be especially obvious (particularly to those who aren't intimately familiar with Pokémon). --Luigifan18 (talk) 21:03, 30 September 2024 (UTC)
- If you want to present something to a wider audience, then no, it’s not your thing. If it’s only meant for your own enjoyment, then we have no reason to host it here. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 21:05, 30 September 2024 (UTC)
- If you want to present something to a wider audience, then no, it’s not your thing. If it’s only meant for your own enjoyment, then we have no reason to host it here.
- Okay, fair enough, I do tend to go overboard with that. And there may still be some ref notes that aren't really necessary; I would need more time to identify those and root them out. Still, since this is largely my thing, I feel the need to explain my creative process, like when I feel that my reasoning for certain choices may not be especially obvious (particularly to those who aren't intimately familiar with Pokémon). --Luigifan18 (talk) 21:03, 30 September 2024 (UTC)
- It’s not about the ref notes, my man. It’s about us criticizing your weird, stream-of-consciousness, always explain the joke writing style you have.
- Like I said, work in progress. And there are several cases where two refnotes could be condensed into one, but then that one refnote would be outrageously long. --Luigifan18 (talk) 20:03, 30 September 2024 (UTC)
I think it's interesting...
but nothing more than a strawman in a discussion as to whether you should be banned or not. The wiki does have a fun space, but at the end of the day it's not a fan fiction site. I also author fan-fiction, on sites dedicated to it. There is nothing special about either of us. 71.208.249.110 (talk) 23:09, 27 September 2024 (UTC)
- The reason I have this on RationalWiki is to serve as a gateway into the rest of the site. --Luigifan18 (talk) 07:49, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
- I don’t even know how to respond to that. It’s too ridiculous to address. 71.208.249.110 (talk) 13:53, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
- Please, do try. We at Rationalwiki encourage people to speak their mind. :) Arcadium Trancefer (talk) 14:01, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
- The real problem here is that Luigi seems to think s/he is God's gift to RationalWiki. As for "serve as a gateway into the rest of the site," what do they even mean by that? Do they envision themself as some kind of translator of the site into some kind of Pokemon fan boy language? As a lead generator, bringing people into the site? Most people on the wiki likely never even see this userfied page. The level of self-importance here is making Conservative on Conservapedia look sane. 71.208.249.110 (talk) 15:40, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
- "Lead generator"? I don't know exactly what that is, but I can hazard a guess, and if it's something that's meant to bring more people to RationalWiki, then yep, that's what it is. --Luigifan18 (talk) 20:20, 30 September 2024 (UTC)
- It doesn’t matter now, but the unwarranted sense of self importance here is impressive. 194.110.115.254 (talk) 23:31, 30 September 2024 (UTC)
- "Lead generator"? I don't know exactly what that is, but I can hazard a guess, and if it's something that's meant to bring more people to RationalWiki, then yep, that's what it is. --Luigifan18 (talk) 20:20, 30 September 2024 (UTC)
- The real problem here is that Luigi seems to think s/he is God's gift to RationalWiki. As for "serve as a gateway into the rest of the site," what do they even mean by that? Do they envision themself as some kind of translator of the site into some kind of Pokemon fan boy language? As a lead generator, bringing people into the site? Most people on the wiki likely never even see this userfied page. The level of self-importance here is making Conservative on Conservapedia look sane. 71.208.249.110 (talk) 15:40, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
- Please, do try. We at Rationalwiki encourage people to speak their mind. :) Arcadium Trancefer (talk) 14:01, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
- I don’t even know how to respond to that. It’s too ridiculous to address. 71.208.249.110 (talk) 13:53, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
The disclaimer at the top
is asinine. Everything you post to this site is released under CC-BY-SA 3.0. If you want to go deeper than that and release to public domain, have at it, but you don't have to give RationalWiki (or Conservapedia, Metapedia, KFarms, ED, 4chan, your mom, Donald Trump, Vladimir Putin, etc) permission to use what is released under RW's copy left license. I'm leaning towards this fan fiction being fair use as far as the other copyright holders are concerned (parody? that's my go-to with fanfic), but if you think they have a claim to copyright on your work, that's grounds for deletion from RW. 71.208.249.110 (talk) 15:48, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
- Fair use is what I have in mind, yes. The disclaimer is saying that if RationalWiki wants to talk about my creations here to raise interest, they can go ahead and do so. --Luigifan18 (talk) 20:21, 30 September 2024 (UTC)
- It seems like you're still "on the verge" of not feeding the troll. Are you gonna extend it out indefinitely? (Oh wait, you can't.) Carthage (talk) 21:19, 30 September 2024 (UTC)
- RationalWiki doesn’t need your permission to discuss creations you post on-wiki, that’s asinine. 194.110.115.254 (talk) 23:31, 30 September 2024 (UTC)
- It seems like you're still "on the verge" of not feeding the troll. Are you gonna extend it out indefinitely? (Oh wait, you can't.) Carthage (talk) 21:19, 30 September 2024 (UTC)