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RationalWiki talk:Nothing is going on at Citizendium

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What is going on?

(talk) (talk) (talk) (talk) (hic)

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When should we give up?[edit]

It might be worth monitoring a bit longer - it was dead for a while, then the rather amusing Approvals Committee came up - but it's basically two or three people, with a couple, like Hayford, who will do something once a month.

I'd like to see how a site dies. But I'm not sure we have an endpoint.

Perhaps we should soft mothball more than officially close the page, but I do think we should give it a little longer to see if it springs back up before doing so. It's very movie-slasher-like in its ability to come back. Citizendium Documentation (talk) 00:44, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

Something I've thought about too. At this point "there's only been one edit" isn't news anymore; but as you say it's still worth keeping an eye on in case something happens. Maybe add fewer new entries, but stress that the WIGO isn't done yet? —Kazitor, pending 01:03, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
  • Gaps of X days (5? 7?) or more, or particularly strong spikes in activity.
  • Projects (on the lines of the Approvals Committee or such) starting or restarting, or elections, and documenting their progress. (Currently, there are no active projects)
  • Amusingly stupid writing in articles
  • Particularly large financial donations or funding dropping below the amount needed to pay for servers
  • Larry-Sanger-related news
  • Bad behaviour and missed chances (for example, chasing wehatever new editors they have away)
  • Wikipedia-bashing, particularly when they comment on how CZ is supposedly better
  • Extreme ego
  • Similar events.
In particular, I think bold text at the top saying that gaps of less than X days arre normal and that all formerly active projects on Citizendium have failed, but that the WIGO is left open as CZ tends to do ridiculous things just when you think it's dead is probably enough to say for a while. Citizendium Documentation (talk) 17:55, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
This sounds ok. It's now routine to go several days with no edits, or a week with one edit. Maybe focus on the the first time the site hits a milestone of deadness - a full week, two weeks, a month with no activity - and noteworthy events such as you mentioned. Bluebottle (talk) 04:51, 20 July 2018 (UTC)

Approvals Committee[edit]

I have to admit, I don't blame Hayford. Any other way of approving articles on Citizendium is dead - the Expert Guidance left with the, y'know, experts. Though I doubt me that anyone's going to ever care about a Citizendium citable version. Citizendium Documentation (talk) 03:42, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

I don't blame Hayford either. But I thought they had done away with the approval nonsense. Do they seriously think anyone cares by this point?
If they want to continue as a place where people are free to write about whatever strikes their fancy there's nothing wrong with that. It fills a niche where people can write essays in article format without Wikipedia's requirements for sourcing and notability. Bluebottle (talk) 01:00, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
I would say the problem with CZ continuing is the insane amount of money wasted every month for 7 people to write a few sentences about some random stuff. The thing costs almost $100 a month.
Also, their article approval process is a joke. It's nothing more than the opinion of Hayford, Anthony and Martin. Who are these people (rhetorical question)? And why should I care about their opinion? (talk) 15:34, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Kinda want to report the response, but....[edit] is likely to be amusing. They've had a site notice claiming the server was being set up for nearly two years. Citizendium Documentation (talk) 02:43, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

It's an interesting dilemma. When the message went up, it wouldn't have been appropriate to report it. At what point do you decide that the site notice is noteworthy? And how do you determine which month it remaining belongs under? —Kazitor Kazitor sig pic.png 05:48, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

Approvals Committee[edit]

These guys are just getting painful. And explaining why they're painful takes too long - I doubt multi-paragraph things are what WIGO wants, but how else are we to show they don't know what they're doing at a fundamental level? Citizendium Documentation (talk) 11:15, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

"Expert approved"? Really?[edit]

The afore-noted painfulness over the Whole Lotta Love approval shows the "expert approved" claim is hollow. They're voting to approve the article despite admitting they don't understand its "unfamiliar words." The article doesn't even mention one of the most noteworthy things about the song which is the blatant lifting from Willie Dixon's "You Need Love" and the lawsuit over that. Plant even owned up to it IIRC. There's only a passing mention of "some additional lyrical credit to Willie Dixon" which with no context will leave the reader scratching their head. This is expert approval?

If they want to have a website where they can write about whatever they like that's one thing, everybody needs a hobby. But they think there are people in the world outside Citizendium who care about formalities like whether their articles are approved.

These are smart guys. They've got to know the futility of all this. It's rather puzzling. Bluebottle (talk) 22:06, 29 September 2018 (UTC)


He's at it again...[edit]

Larry's latest, latest, latest, post-Wikipedia wiki encyclopedia project has just been announced here...

The logic in that escapes me. Wikipedia is bad because a thousands of people edit it, therefore we need more people creating more encyclopedia articles - just in different places, and they can say what they want (even though experts are good and should be respected)? My head hurts! I'm not a robot (talk) 20:48, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

"No small group of elites deserves the power to declare what is known for all of us." Isn't that literally what he wanted from Citizendium? ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 21:15, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
Exactly! Schrodinger's wiki? I'm not a robot (talk) 22:56, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

Can anyone explain what the hell he's talking about? What is a "Knowledge Standards Foundation" going to actually *do*? And who exactly is going to care? He's not expecting that he is going to make some sort of standards, and the likes of Wikipedia is going to follow them is he? (talk) 11:25, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

What it's going to *do* is *accept donations*. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 17:58, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

Phil goes on an editing spree again[edit] I'm not sure if this is good enough to be in a NIGO, but I still find it to be amusing. RockfordRoe (talk) 06:14, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Should we document Larry Sanger's online activities?[edit]

Is there interest here in documenting Larry Sanger's activities in the last couple of years? Nobody cares about InfoBear, Bittizendibump, Watchizenditrump, or Ballotfatbaldsmellyguypedia, but the online presence in the last couple of years of the guy who formerly used to be an ex-co-founder of Wikipedia (but he's not any more) seem on-mission. Should we document it here? For example:

Is it on mission? Burndall (talk) 10:24, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

When Larry was working on Infobitt a few years ago, we tracked its progress and death on this WIGO. His Wikipedia is biased article was talked about in the bar, so I didn't bother posting it here also. If he did something notable in the knowledge / encyclopedia space I probably would put a note up. He and his policies have a tendency to attract pseudoscience.
Off topic, but I find it interesting that the page talking about Citizendium has over the last month many more edits than CZ itself. (talk) 14:52, 1 June 2020 (UTC)


Citizendium mainstay Hayford Peirce has died under, uh... rather extreme circumstances. This may affect what happens to CZ? (talk) 21:09, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

My god. That is definitely something I did not expect to see. I don't know if this is what you are ultimately suggesting...but I don't think this should go on the page.-Flandres (talk) 22:20, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
From what I can tell, Hayford was CZ's treasurer and the hosting fees were being paid from an account in his name. What this means for CZ, I couldn't say. (talk) 03:32, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
Back in February he posted that "my will specifically directs my executor (Personal Representative) to close out the bank account with the CZ funds and to distribute them as CZ tells him to." [1] so they will need someone to make a decision about what to do. Fortunately for the project Pat Palmer, who Larry transferred ownership to in July, is active. Thryduulf (talk) 03:48, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
That's definitely to be noted as extremely relevant, surely? - David Gerard (talk) 19:54, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
I would rather wait until we have more information, honestly. If you want to put it in, sure.-Flandres (talk) 20:03, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Should we research Pat Palmer too ?[edit]

This is one weird website for the $1 million in annual revenues company which now owns Citizendium .
CZ donation page $300 to renew the domain for 5 years ?
Who is Mark Widmer their Treasurer ? Hjkgq23lz (talk) 05:08, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

Pat Palmer's article[edit]

Well, nice to see that they have shed all delusion of relevance or viable competition to Wikipedia. Gangster Computer God (talk) 23:18, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

May 2023[edit]

Looking far from dead on the basis of recent activity. Efforts are evidently being made to improve the existing articles and subpages. I love the pseudoscience discussion in which they have turned tables on Wikipedia and branded it Pseudopedia! 😀 It will be interesting to see where CZ can go from here but, dead, it is not. Sistorian (talk) 20:10, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Hmm. [2] 2001:67C:6EC:203:192:42:116:174 (talk) 19:04, 17 June 2023 (UTC)