Information icon.svg

Campaigning for the RationalMedia Foundation 2021 board of trustees election is underway!

RationalWiki talk:What is going on in the clogosphere?

From RationalWiki
Jump to: navigation, search

What is going on?

(talk) (talk) (talk) (talk) (*cough*) (hic)

Archives for this talk page: <1>, <2>, <3>, <4>, <5>, <6>, <7>, <8>, <9>, <10>, <11>, <12>, <13>, <14>, (new)



Magic Nerds mad about tiddies[edit]

A creator from the Wizards of the Coast creator program has been fired for allegedly sexualising the game with her onlyfans content and antifeminist chuds are blaming it on her being 'too hot so feminists shut her down' instead of a corporate decision about their image. Read the comments on this Source: https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/07/03/wizards-of-the-coast-removes-lizbeth-eden-from-magic-creator-program-for-photos-featuring-nudity-and-sexualized-posing/ — Unsigned, by: 203.100.222.84 / talk / contribs

Do book reviews go in the clogosphere?[edit]

If so, here's a good one, from a soldier in the Spanish Civil War. Enjoy! — Unsigned, by: 2001:8003:59db:4100:c477:8214:79d9:b102 / talk / contribs

That Slate article[edit]

https://slate.com/human-interest/2021/06/kimono-cultural-appropriation-care-and-feeding.html

I don't see a problem with it. Maybe you think the person asking the question is paranoid or being silly, but I think the person's heart is in the right place and there's a reasonable, thoughtful response. Overall, it's really tame and it's not clogworthy in the slightest and I think it's rather mean we consider a question posted in good faith like this clogworthy. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario! 22:44, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

It’s 100% a clog. Japanese guy is gonna be told by the superior enlightened white people that they can’t use his gifts because it would be racist to the Japanese. Like, grown adults with kids thinking you can’t wear clothes because people in other countries wear them is absurd. “Cultural appropriation” is BS. Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 00:15, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
To be honest, I thought it was a reasonable answer. I'm not too familiar with the fine details of kimonos, but the discussion reminded me of the kilt in Scottish culture. At least when I visited a long time ago, kilts were actually more formalwear (people would wear them to church), and there was correct ways to wear them, symbolism a plenty with the tartan color choices, etc. There was a definite Right Cultural Way here. Nobody cares, of course, if someone wears generic utilikilts and whatnot at a more fun event, but showing up in a kilt haphazardly at a legitimate Highland formal event would probably be... well, stupid. I imagine the kimono is kind of similar, no one's going to care if the kid wears a pretty kimono gift, but if I didn't know what I was doing cultural wise, I wouldn't think showing up at a more formal social event in a random kimono would be wise. PanGalacticGargleBlaster (talk) 02:53, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
DuceMoosonlini: You got this entirely wrong. First, the person who posed the question appears to be a white woman whose husband's close friend is a Japanese American who gifted her children Japanese-themed gifts. Second, the person answering the question doesn't make immediately apparent her race (author is Nicole Chung) but she's been raised with Korean culture so probably had more exposure to Korean culture than the person posing the question has been exposed to Japanese culture (also note the author's last name, Chung). The answerer also took the time to get the perspective of a Japanese-American which further does not support your argument that this piece is by an insensitive white person talking down on a Japanese person. No offense but I think you're projecting your biases on the intents of these people and then coming up with a conclusion that seems completely off from the meaning of the article. "Cultural appropriation" is not BS as an entire concept. As the answerer said, there are discussions about being respectful while having fun, and I agree those discussions are important. There's no case of knee-jerk reaction about racism or oversensitivity, it just seems like a mature, thoughtful response, and the answerer has demonstrated their limits about this and even encouraged the question-asker to ask her friends about this.
PanGalacticGargleBlaster: I feel what you're answering is more in spirit with the article. I do feel a kilt at a formal event is not appropriate (depends on context) but I also think there's a point that you probably shouldn't dress as, say, a stereotype for Halloween or propagate stereotypes. I think people generally don't care if you do show up in a costume party in a kimono, but there's just a thought-provoking question to ask: should an important cultural garb be reduced to a cute costume? --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario! 20:06, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
I think you have partly misunderstood Duce's comment. Duce wrote: "Japanese guy is gonna be told by the superior enlightened white people that they can’t use his gifts". The questioner is asking whether it is okay for her kid to wear the kimono she got as a gift from her Japanese godfather, indicating that the concern is about appropriation of Japanese culture vis a vis a gift from a Japanese person. Also, the author's page links to this page for her book, which indicates that she was "raised by a white family in a sheltered Oregon town". If the questioner were to report this answer to the godfather, it wouldn't seem to be entirely unfair to describe this as a Japanese man getting told by Americans whether his gift was racist against the Japanese, regardless of what the answer actually is. 𝒮𝑒𝓇𝑒𝓃𝑒 talk 21:02, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
I understand a bit better that the godfather is probably going to be asked about cultural appropriation but I still don't see how the person from the article is going to end up talking down on him and lecturing him about cultural appropriation as opposed to just asking if it's okay to wear this and what's the appropriate way to wear it, nor do I see the article encourage that kind of behavior. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario! 22:01, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
I think the thing is that the godfather seemingly wasn't asked about cultural appropriation. It seems like the mother posted a question to the site in place of asking the godfather about the appropriate use of the kimono. Maybe there is some further context, but as-is it seems like the mother places greater confidence in Ms. Chung as an authority on what is and is not cultural appropriation than in the Japanese godfather himself. Since the culture in question is Japanese, and Ms. Chung is not herself Japanese, this seems a bit backwards. Although the godfather might not be getting explicitly lectured or talked down to, the apparent failure to consult him suggests that, to the mother, his take on the matter is of lesser importance than that of Ms. Chung, a Korean-American raised in "a sheltered Oregon town". Although Ms. Chung's reply is pretty tame, and she does consult a Japanese American, this was a choice on her part, and the mother presumably would have taken her advice seriously regardless.
Consider this analogous case. Suppose that I am an American, and I give some U.S. cultural item to a Japanese friend of mine. Wanting to treat the item respectfully, my friend sends a letter to a Scottish advice columnist, asking how this item ought to be treated. The Scottish columnist replies in a tame manner, reporting on the reply they received from a U.S.-raised colleague. While the advice might in-itself be good, the question remains why my friend sought it from a Scottish columnist, and not from an American columnist or, say, me. 𝒮𝑒𝓇𝑒𝓃𝑒 talk 01:35, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
I think you're overtthinking about the intents of the letter sender. There could be a lot of reasons the decision was made but I still don't believe it's a clog whatsoever. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario! 20:10, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
100% a clog. It takes a special kind of stupid to start agonising about cultural appropriation when the cultural artefact in question is literally being gifted by someone from that culture. How much more permission do you need? Helena Bonham Carter (talk) 20:50, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
Putting aside everything else I want to say in response to this particular comment for the moment, are y'all saying you think this should be a clog because of the woman asking the question, and NOT -- I should remind, as it's current wording in the Clogs implies -- how that question is being answered? ℕoir LeSable (talk) 21:11, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
The question itself is as dumb as Slate giving it the time of day with anything other than: "It's fine. Stop your dumbfuck worrying & let your 5-year-old daughter wear her fucking kimono like she wants to, and as her Japanese godfather clearly fucking intended. Thanks for writing." Helena Bonham Carter (talk) 21:28, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
Good post! Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 21:59, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
I think that's a misconstruing of the situation [EDIT: this is in response to DM's initial interpretation, not a continuation of the above thread]. The responding author is Korean-American, not white. Frankly, I do think there are some folks who are overbearing about "cultural appropriation" (and are, indeed, usually white (or otherwise not of the culture being discussed) and perpetually online), but this particular article is a good brief examination of this particular scenario. As probably indicated by some of my previous edits, I don't begrudge people asking stupid questions if it's done in good faith.
Also I don't mean to pull the "race card" here, but as a fellow Korean-American, I'd completely agree with Nicole's input -- particularly the closing line "I don’t think having this discussion [about cultural appropriation] and letting her occasionally wear the kimono she was given need to be mutually exclusive." If I bought a friend a hanbok, I'd certainly be pleased if they shared it on social media. On the other hand, I'd frankly be pissed off if they decided to go to a Halloween party in it. ℕoir LeSable (talk) 21:02, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
As I said, saying this good faith question is a clog is frankly mean spirited and then being flippant about it to assert how stupid the question is isn't really helpful. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario! 23:56, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
Oh yeah, I'm in full agreement that this article shouldn't be a Clog and that I think the original question was made in good faith, if that wasn't clear. I apologize for sounding flippant about it. ℕoir LeSable (talk) 00:08, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
Oh, no, I wasn't directing your comment at you but at Duce and HBC, but I just think we shouldn't encourage shaming people who do this. I still feel we should give some credit that this person is trying her best to be considerate, even if her priorities on whom to ask aren't appropriate or that she's worried that her children wearing it at all is inappropriate, basically acknowledging her ignorance on the culture and taking caution, even if too much caution, to proceed. I feel I could be in that same position to worry such a thing about appropriation. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario! 00:51, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── No. The question / concern doesn't make sense on any level, and all the good faith intent in the world doesn't change that. If you disagree, then please feel free to sketch out any plausible scenario in which this 5-year-old kid wearing this gifted kimono could possibly amount to an meaningful example of cultural appropriation. Helena Bonham Carter (talk) 15:41, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Halloween costume. Next. ℕoir LeSable (talk) 03:04, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
OK. How does wearing her kimono to go trick-or-treating, or for a Halloween party, qualify as a meaningful example of cultural appropriation? Is this something to do with parties and festive occasions in general, or are you carving out something Halloween-specific here? Helena Bonham Carter (talk) 17:24, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
It's not to do with parties or festive occasions in general -- if, for instance, a white person married a Korean-American person, and they decide to hold a traditional Korean or Korean-"Western" fusion wedding ceremony, I'd say that's an occasion where the partygoers wearing a hanbok is acceptable. At least for me, it doesn't have to be so formal either -- I wouldn't necessarily be against someone cosplaying as a fictional character in such dress at a geek convention as long as they took the time and effort to do it respectfully. Not acceptable would be, like, masquerade balls or frat costume parties where the dress is not seen as an element of a culture, but merely something that's "Oooh, look at me, my aesthetic is so exotic!" -- a sentiment that has been very commonly associated with East/Southeast Asian cultural aspects by Westerners for centuries (compare: decapitated Buddha heads, bad Chinese tattoos). I just pick Halloween as it's the most common example given its association with frivolous and kitschy costumes -- and at least for me, it's hard not to feel a tiny bit put off when you go to a pop-up Halloween costume store at the mall and see a cheaply-designed outfit from a culture adjacent to yours being sold between the "Sexy Minion" and "Skeleton with Obvious Boner Joke" costumes.
And this is all aside from the whole "wearing a costume based on racial stereotypes to a Halloween party" thing that should go without saying. ℕoir LeSable (talk) 19:08, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
I don't know how to break this to you, but 5-year-old kids so inclined don't buzz wearing a pretty dress because they're trying to impress anyone with their "aesthetic", exotic or otherwise. It's literally a childish delight in a pretty thing. Try walking me through the bit where any serious, fair-minded person would believe that delight was disrespecting their culture. Helena Bonham Carter (talk) 20:29, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
(Ah shit, I missed the response here, sorry for the late reply) So if a 5-year-old white kid decides that they want to dress up in blackface because they want to dress up as their favorite character or role model or whatever, or wear a Native American headdress because they think the feathers are pretty, that's totally fine then? Because it's a child showing admiration for something they like or thinking it looks pretty or cool? Or do you think we should be instead judging the parent who allows them to do so? ℕoir LeSable (talk) 19:58, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
i would think the real concern a parent might have is their child getting abuse from fucknuts calling them racist (you know some fucknuts will give kids shit over such things) or get abuse themselves with their parenting skills brought into question.
honestly dunno why we have clog on an ADVICE column giving ADVICE to a concerned parent. if in doubt ask, like they did. its not like they were told they were worse than hitler. get a fucking grip people there are real issues to get worked up about. AMassiveGay (talk) 20:46, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

humane pest control[edit]

i find it very strange this article could be considered a clog. if it were insisting you must deal with all pests and infestations without harming them in anyway else you worse than hitler and should be shunned from decent society and forced to live in a cave like the savage you are, then sure thats a bit much if there is hornet nest in your pillow.

but i dont think it is asking too much to not want to have kill things that are only pests because they are on your kitchen counter because a wall with a big enough hole is giving access to furry critters or you didnt mop a spilt glass of orange squash and thats how you get ants. you can go ham on the blighters if thats your thing, if not the article asks is there a humane method for getting rid of common pests on your own.

rats and mice? prevent them access to your property, job done. traps humane or otherwise would not work, just catch some, while more will keep coming. the solution to ants sounds preferable to me than poison if their suggestion is effective. ive put poison down before for ants and you end up with little containers filled with dead ants before it works - a few days at least. scrubbing work surfaces with vinegar seems much less icky - a win in my book. i loathe insects dead or alive.

cockcroaches they said would take more effort to get rid even for professionals, moths take time again but are easy to keep from being a problem in the first place, wasps - get a professional and foxes need to be dealt with humanely because its a crime any other way.

all suggestions on if you wanted to deal these yourself humanely. should you want to. it wasnt saying you should. it wasnt saying you could even if your infestation is too severe. it admits some methods are a ball ache. call the exterminators if like. humane ones or the ones everything will die ones if must. the article aint judging.

some folk dont to want actively destroy these things if they can help it. even if they dont like the things. it says as much at the beginning of the article. if you are not one such person, call rentokill if you got roaches. if you are, and you really love roaches for some reason, well you have options you lucky person.

i read the article earlier, before this was posted. had an infestation of bed bug that took an age to deal with. with poisons - fuck humane with them cunts. my flat mate panics every time he sees a spot of fluff in horror at the thought of their return. i was hoping oto seeing some treatment for them that didnt involve repeat calls from the exterminator (paid for ourselves because the housing association dragged their feet and we wanted them gone.) and various chemical bought from amazon wih varying levels of carcinogens. just in case. they didnt do bed bugs in the article and i havent been infested with any of the other pests. nice to know that i might not need the exterminator (very expensive) or coating the flat with so much poison it will kill me before the vermin, if i ever do.

anyway, not a clog to merely suggesting humane options and a not clog for not demanding kill it fire AMassiveGay (talk) 15:05, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

I found it very strange that anyone would propose to catch and release fleas. I do this for spiders, myself, though. But a lost ant is a dead ant; if their suffering means something to you, better to just step on them. Solicitude for animal's feelings goes way too far, and that's why it struck me as a clog. Smerdis of Tlön, wekʷōm teḱsos. 16:29, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
if the article was some kind of polemic, you might have point. its was just some folk are squeamish. here are some options. i wouldnt bother with most, the cockroachs especially. i didnt feel like it was lecturing me on what should do make me feel bad that wouldnt. it was just a vaguely interesting lightweight article. AMassiveGay (talk) 20:26, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
i was surprised to see the artice to be honest as much as anything else because i just been reading it before i saw it posted here. small world i guess AMassiveGay (talk) 20:30, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
It struck me as a strange example of animal-rights extremism. But foxes, yeah; we have red foxes in these parts, none of my neighbors are henhouse hobbyists so I am happy to see them. Smerdis of Tlön, wekʷōm teḱsos. 13:44, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
I really don't know what's your specific issue with the animal rights folk, it's almost baffling that it looks like you have an axe to grind. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario! 15:03, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
No secret I am very much against animal rights. There seems to be something uniquely toxic about the mixture of inappropriate sentimentality and moral judgmentalism, something that turns extreme and violent in the face of the realization that nobody cares. We've had the anti-abortion cult bawling for its lost darlings for fifty years now. While I breathe I will resist the rise of something very similar. Smerdis of Tlön, wekʷōm teḱsos. 15:17, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
Fleas caused the Black Death. They are the eternal enemies of the human race, and we must not rest until they are destroyed completely! Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 15:22, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
I get that you might be somewhat less than serious here, but while I don't disagree that fleas pose some threat to individual humans or even local populations through the diseases they spread, there are effective treatments to most of such diseases by now. The bubonic plague hasn't been an existential threat to mankind since the discovery of antibiotics, despite regular outbreaks in less developed countries.
That said, just like I celebrate Jimmy Carters efforts to rid the world of Dracunculiasis by driving a parasitic creature in to extinction, I would welcome similar attempts in regards to other parasites. Like fleas for example.
Might be easier said than done though. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 15:34, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
No, we must destroy the flea for vengeance! Millions of Medieval voices cry out from the great beyond! Will you ignore them? Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 15:40, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
(EC) I find interesting how the article doesn't mention mosquitoes. Probably people living in Africa or India would laugh if you tell them to relocate the Anopheles living in their houses. All of the animals he mention are also capable of transmitting diseases, even if in a smaller scale, sorry if this sound like a snowballing, but I don't think it's possible to decide at which point an animal is dangerous. Of course, some of them, like scorpions and some mosquitoes, spiders and snakes are always dangerous, but that does not convince me that you should just release cockroaches and mices on the wild so they can invade other houses and possibly infect other people with the diseases. GeeJayK (talk) 15:49, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
Yeah, mosquitos are actually the deadliest animal to humans in the whole worldWikipedia. Humans are in second place. Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 15:56, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
(EC)Gazillion cattle souls cry out from the great beyond. For vengeance against mankind. We must rid this world of ourselves, for the good of every other species in existence. Drink the Cool Flavor Aid y'all. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 16:00, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
No, it is now clear that we must destroy every other species in existence. If they're out to get us, then we gotta get them first! Go team humanity! Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 16:02, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
Kill every animal in the world so we might all become vegetarians! No, wait. Kill all the plants too! Some of them might try and kill us too. Better to kill everything so we might die on our own terms of starvation. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 16:08, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Or cannibalism. Followed by starvation. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 16:09, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

I unironically wanted to discuss a criterion, but since we're just shitposting now, song theme for slaying the whole world. GeeJayK (talk) 16:10, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
.

Also, I have to say I'm surprised that no one mentioned Startship Troopers yet so I'll do it. The only good bug is a dead bug. I say kill 'em all! GeeJayK (talk) 16:30, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

As this article is from uk, im not sure that mosquitos are a common infestation. common pest sure, but i dont think anyone has to call the exterminator to rid them from your house. also, in uk they dont carry much in the way of deadly disease in these parts.

More of note (aa mentioned earlier) is no mention of bedbugs. probably as there is no 'umane' method to dealing with them. nor should you. kill them fire, with poison, under heel of your boot, with a thermo nuclear device. there is nothing they dont deserve having done to eradicate their kind from existence, no such thing as overkill. never suffer a bed bug to live and dont let your guard down for a second - they are incedibly resistant and hard to kill. anyone whose been blighted from these apple seed sized shits and been woken up in the night an found one these cunts on them, squashed em under a thumb knowing that it is your own blood that bursts out them as you end them, will under stand. fucking little shits. AMassiveGay (talk) 19:29, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

Bedbugs are a fascinating example of evolution at work. They literally co-evolved with us, same as the house mouse and sparrow. When we go, they go. Smerdis of Tlön, wekʷōm teḱsos. 16:07, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

Rolling Stone[edit]

Considering Robert Maxwell, Ghislane Maxwell's old man, was an agent for MOSSAD, why is this a clog? AMassiveGay (talk) 08:37, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

porn for kids[edit]

im missing whats particularly cloggy about a linked story that notes a rabid twitter mob is rabid and deleting poorly worded tweets almost immediately is too slow for the braying mob halt its unstoppable outrage. someone did a bad tweet. clarifications are moot. someone did a bad twitter. they must be destroyed. the tweet was bad. so point of the clog? i dunno what the point here is. the story is about twitter mobs. the clog is someone done a tweet wrong. AMassiveGay (talk) 21:11, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

Good image about the vaccine passport[edit]

Enjoy. --2001:8003:DDB1:C600:5D64:3934:326E:31C5 (talk) 23:53, 31 July 2021 (UTC)