Talk:Stopped clock

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Bloated article[edit]

We can't or shouldn't expect everyone to be wrong on everything. People beliefs tend to be complicated and they have also degree of beliefs, some of these beliefs having no relationships with each other. It's unreasonable to assume all their beliefs are going to disagree with RationalWikis. To have someone who thinks the Jews run the world or scientists lie about global warming but think the moon landing hoaxers are nuts isn't a "stopped clock moment." And I've seen examples of stopped clock moments from bigots, but closer examination shows that those moments are actually motivated from the bigot framework. For example, racists who hate animal cruelty but often cite animal cruelty stemming from Halal practices or the Chinese and Korean people eating dogs; this is not a "stopped clock" moment. Someone apologizing for a past action is not a "stopped clock moment". The discussion above has an interesting take on stopped clock moment, such as predictions that end up correct for the wrong reason. We need to narrow stopped clock down to more egregious cases like whale.to citing actual science among the literally hundreds of other crap it says (the example of whale.to in the article isn't what I had in mind). --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario! 19:15, 19 June 2019 (UTC)

@LeftyGreenMario I agree; this article has become completely ridiculous. In general a stopped clock moment could apply to anyone and anything. This article should be stripped down to the opening text, a paragraph or two about the most interesting examples, and an analysis that starts with your first sentence above. The giant bullet list is out of control, does nothing for the article, and is a magnet for every BoN on the internet to add their own insignificant example. Cosmikdebris (talk) 19:20, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
Good suggestions. I plan on enacting major changes. We also should try updating links to stopped clock or searching articles with stopped clock sections and just don't call them "stopped clock" unless subject matter is blatantly wrong in so many things and they actually reached to the right conclusions with their surprisingly appropriate reasoning. Are there any examples in the article that would be considered illustrative of stopped clock that should be kept? --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario! 03:22, 20 June 2019 (UTC)

List[edit]

Why did somebody remove the list of stopped clock moments? It was so fun to read through. Anyway here's the last version of the page before they were deleted. https://rationalwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Stopped_clock&oldid=2084478 75.27.37.89 (talk) 04:51, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

"Stopped clock" has been misused a ton even in this site, and it's my attempt to set the record straight. A stopped clock moment is not a moment where someone that we normally disagree with agrees with us. A stopped clock moment would be someone we normally disagree with agrees with us for a wrong reason. When we misuse the original definition, we risk creating a sort of litmus test by assuming people we disagree with have to disagree with us on everything and the moments they agree means it's a "stopped clock". It assumes people that are wrong on one subject has to be wrong on everything else and there's a relationship of their beliefs. The misuse of the original meaning also does a disservice to the analogy by making it complete nonsense. Remember, a stopped clock moment is supposed to illustrate the fallacy fallacy, that you can be correct even if your premise or reasoning is incredibly faulty, not to illustrate that you're sometimes correct at one point though you're wrong every other time. A comment earlier brings up
Finally, the previous state of this page was a massive trivia dump for drive-bys to insert a laundry list of people that were products of their time or people that failed a litmus test for some drive-bys. This was brought up many times if you see the previous topics in this talk page. I took initiative cleaning the page up, cutting down the fat. I also think inverse stopped clock also needs a clean-up, but it has even less of a reason to exist IMO. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario! 04:42, 14 February 2020 (UTC)

Example contradicts explanation[edit]

"Also, since people change minds all the time, moments of assholes that later take responsibility and apologize are not stopped-clock moments."

"Fidel Castro ... also voiced regret for his government's persecution of homosexuals, taking personal responsibility and calling it a "great injustice"."

Thus this isn't an example of a stopped-clock moment; removed. 203.109.153.141 (talk) 21:07, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Funny? Maybe.[edit]

The concept is presented as if it were significant as a point of social or biographical study. It was invented as a joke. It still is no better than a joke; one that is used for those this wiki thinks should be ragged on. Ariel31459 (talk) 00:42, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Ben Shapiro and "white ideals".[edit]

So, I'm going to point out a few things. One, selective editing exists, so even if nothing is cut out of the clip itself, content can be cut that precedes or succeeds the clip, which can change the context. Two, Shapiro is pretty clearly just spouting PR flak and feigning ignorance. Three, the source (yet another reactionary media outlet) has every reason to make Shapiro look as good as possible, and utilize the techniques I listed in my first point. Thus are my reasons for removal. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 15:34, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Not being a white identitarian hardly qualifies as a stopped clock, might as well add every crank who doesn’t think the earth is flat to the page. It’s even less surprising for a Jew.
We got rid of the examples on inverse stopped clock, we should probably get rid of these ones as well. Christopher (talk) 15:44, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
Also fair points. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 16:01, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
(EC) Came here to say what Christopher just said. GeeJayK (talk) 16:02, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
So, do we all agree that it should be pruned out? GeeJayK (talk) 20:28, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
I repeatedly stated that I dislike listicles. Lists should be as concise as possible, and serve to illustrate the point of the surrounding text. They are not on their own a substitute for writing. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 20:34, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
I agree. We got rid of the list on the Inverse Stopped Clock article, so we should get rid of this one. It has the same problems and lack of added value to the article. JoeSmoe2828 (talk) 21:50, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
That’s enough for me, the list is gone. Christopher (talk) 21:52, 7 April 2021 (UTC)