Talk:Transgender glossary

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Slurs

Any reason why we have an entire section cataloging words that transgender people find offensive? Especially considering the overlap with TERF glossary I'd say the entire section should go. At this point the section works as a source for people looking for slurs. GeeJayK (talk) 01:52, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

Consider me in for support. — 𝗦𝗾𝗿𝘁-𝟭 ^{talk stalk} 04:53, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

Agreed. Quantumgeek333 (talk) 05:00, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

@GeeJayK While I'm in agreement that we shouldn't have a glossary that lists every transphobic slur under the sun, I think we should at least keep the "Trap is/may be a slur" discussion given how it pops up from time to time in weeb circles (and there isn't an entry for it in the TERF glossary). Maybe relabel it as "Trap (as a slur)" or something. Thoughts? ℕoir LeSable (talk) 17:41, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

I totally agree with you. In fact almost pinged the author of the "trap" entry because that one is really good. GeeJayK (talk) 17:47, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

I think that some of these removals were excessive. When such terms have been used within the trans community, more nuanced explanations could be given:

• Cross-dresser: keep since there's a link to a main page. It's important to explain that cross-dressing is not inherently transsexuality.
• Ladyboy/Kathoey: probably worth adding
• Shemale: widely used in porn; it's not like someone looking for that slur is going to find it here. Also controversially used by RuPaul.[1]
• Tranny: not used in the trans community nowadays but it was widely used.[2]
• Transgenderism/Transgenderist: historical usage, not strictly a slur
• Trap: keep

The slurs can further be explained in the historical evolution of the trans community from marginalization to mainstream. Slurs were more commonly used within the community to toughen each other up in the marginalization era (I recall this was the case from Andy Warhol's films), similar to African Americans' Dozens verbal sparring. Bongolian (talk) 18:53, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ I wouldn't oppose to these suggestions, but I don't have time nor knowledge to make the changes. I also think that, since these words aren't so offensive, we can add them on the "terms" section instead of using the "slurs" label. My main concern was in fact with words like "troon", which I believe are only used by TERFs and the alt-right. GeeJayK (talk) 19:03, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

OK, I will put the ones that I suggested into the main list unless there are any objections.Bongolian (talk) 20:02, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

As the author of the trap section (hi I have the page watchlisted); yeah feel free to integrate it in the article itself as a term. -- Techpriest (talk) 20:35, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

I'm done for now if anyone wants to review what I did. Bongolian (talk) 04:04, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

Newhalf?

I recently bumped against this word. Never heard of it before and after doing a google search, I found a topic on Reddit where most found it disrespectful. But that topic is 10 years old, so I don't know if this still is seen as a slur. 2A02:1812:2C66:D000:95B6:CE0F:72C8:4FBF (talk) 12:18, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

Fairly sure newhalf is a term mostly used in Japan right now, though I couldn't tell you how respectful it is. It's 100 percent more kind than the word Okama, but that's a subject of its own. armed_roomba (she/her)^{What am I doing wrong this time?} 18:36, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

Kathoey (ladyboy)

Is this considered offensive? I believe "ladyboy" is generally considered offensive by most people in the west; and the Wikipedia page Kathoey suggests it's derogatory too. I'm not qualified to say whether this term should be removed from the glossary, but a note could be added to indicate if it's derogatory/offensive. --Annanoon (talk) 15:07, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

Whether it's offensive depends on context: Most notably, who is using it, and how? As a general rule, I suggest using culturally-specific terms like "kathoey" or "two-spirits" only when one is part of that culture, or when describing a person of that culture who explicitly identifies with that term. Otherwise, at best you're probably missing a lot of nuance — such terms do not map perfectly to ideas and expectations of other cultures and subcultures — and at worst you're being grossly offensive. Heywood (talk) 15:28, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

Should we split out AFAB, AMAB, and AGAB into their own sections?

AFAB, AMAB, and AGAB are all combined into one section (partly my fault, since I just added AGAB) and the section simply redirects to "Sex assignment at birth". Sex assignment at birth, on the other hand, is a bit unwieldy at present. I wonder if it might be better to give AFAB, AMAB, and AGAB their own succinct entries, each including "See Sex assignment at birth." Thoughts and opinions are welcome. Heywood (talk) 15:18, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

"Tranny"

A curious thing I have run into: before this became a term of abuse towards trans people, I believe it may have been used as a term of abuse between trans people sometimes. Seems to have meant something like "transtrender"? I came across it in some book used this way, but I can't remember the source, so I'll have to omit it unless I remember or run back across it... Chillpilled (talk) 08:37, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

The OED dates the term back to 1979, and has this to say:

“”Frequently derogatory and now often offensive (see note at main sense). A transvestite. Also: a transgender (or transsexual) woman. Although in early use typically regarded as a colloquial synonym of transvestite, many of the people referred to by this word in the past would now probably be regarded as transgender women. Although used humorously in some contexts, esp. as a self-designation, the word is usually derogatory and is now regarded as offensive if used of a transgender woman.

OED sticks to written sources as evidence, so it could date back earlier, but Gay Talk by Bruce Rodgers (published in 1979) has no mention of the term. Bongolian (talk) 17:43, 1 January 2024 (UTC)