I agree with some of this
Your comparison of middle-eastern oppression and black oppression in America just trivializes everyone involved!) instead of trying to seriously understand what the other person intends to communicate and where they're coming from, this place is just going to go down the same exact shit-hole of single-minded over-reactionary social justice extremism and silencing of non-perfectly-worded responses that Tumblr did. And I'm honestly starting to wonder if that's the reason why a bunch of the old-timers from this place decided to just leave or quit in the first place.
I am in 100% agreement with a rejection of people on the left who are sexual and word-choice Stalinists. They drive me batshit and I had to stop commenting about anything feminism-related at the UK's Guardian site because they are all so far gone into seeing female victimization everywhere, sex work as a horrendous crime against women, and basically just acting as if we wimmin are all fragile flowers who must be protected from any "hurtful" words and who must have "safe space" (gagging, puking) and all that shit. Nor do I go for inordinate identity politics related to race. They kept modding me and I would have just gotten myself banned for "sexist" and "mean" posts.
It is true, however, that white people need to do a better job of listening to black people and what they say. It's arrogant to think we should guide their movement; that's up to them. But I'm not gonna write off anyone's opinion just because they are white (or male).
But, I could never survive all the leftist policing for permissible views and language that I've read is in effect at Tumblr. I wouldn't even want to try; a bullet in the head would be kinder. They are no better than the dogmatic Roman Catholicism I was raised in and I just can't stand to be around such thought- and word-policing.
That all said, the Israel-Palestine debate is not about any of that. (Altho I do reject that Caucasian women into belly-dancing are "appropriating" Arab culture.) This is a pure justice issue, one that can be usefully analyzed in either Marxist or classically liberal terms. Also, Black Lives Matter and the Palestinians have themselves joined in common cause and found similarities (and differences) in their fights. (See RW's article on BLM.)
Anyway, I assure you if RW goes the way of Tumblr oppressiveness it will not be because of me. I despise such atmospheres and social pressure with the heat of a thousand suns.---Mona- (talk) 01:11, 25 October 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks, that's good to know (no really, I don't mean that in a negative or sarcastic way).
- I can also see why that first part of the quote above would be a little confusing, because it was from a now-deleted comment that I responded to about a month or so ago before the recent WIGOW clean-up. But I understand all of that about the seriousness of the Israel and Palestine conflict and how BLM is on good terms with the later. And I agree about the need for our society to be more willing to consider perspectives that the majority has not personally experienced (racism, in this case).
- As for my comparisons to Tumblr, I'm fortunate enough to have a lot of patience so I really don't think they're that morbidly terrible. To be honest, I even owe them a small debt of gratitude because of the perspective they offered me a few years ago in contrast to my extremely conservative family: it's because of them and people like John Stewart and Stephen Colbert that I've been largely inoculated against Fox News and even found my way here to RationalWiki (back before I recently made this account).
- But with that being said, I have also seen how their more nutty and ridiculous antics have chased a lot of people away, resulting in a large amount of unnecessary polarization. So I might definitely harp on them like that if relevant since they're a great example of good intentions gone wrong on the non-extremely-conservative side of things, as you very eloquently expressed.
- Really I think that Bernie Sanders' speech at Liberty University is a good counterpoint for that kind of thing and a good example of the kinds of discussions I think that you and I would like to see:
"But I came here today, because I believe from the bottom of my heart that it is vitally important for those of us who hold different views to be able to engage in a civil discourse.
Too often in our country -- and I think both sides bear responsibility for us -- there is too much shouting at each other. There is too much making fun of each other.
Now, in my view, and I say this as somebody whose voice is hoarse, because I have given dozens of speeches in the last few months, it is easy to go out and talk to people who agree with you. I was in Greensboro, North Carolina, just last night. All right. We had 9,000 people out. Mostly they agreed with me. Tonight, we're going to be in Manassas, and have thousands out and they agree with me. That's not hard to do. That's what politicians by and large do. We go out and we talk to people who agree with us.
But it is harder, but not less important, for us to try and communicate with those who do not agree with us on every issue.
Eoan (talk) 04:48, 25 October 2015 (UTC)
And it is important to see where if possible, and I do believe it is possible, we can find common ground."
Apparently this was skipped over the first time around:
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