Dogma Debate

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Dogma Debate is a Classical liberal radio show and podcast on the PodCastOne Network that features discussions and debates about politics, civil rights, religion, and equality. It has a largely secular listener base, and currently has more than 5.5 million downloads and plays and over 30,000 weekly subscribers.[1] David Smalley calls himself a comedian.

The show broadcasts live each week and is available as a free podcast on iHeartRadio, iTunes, Spreaker, Zune Marketplace, Stitcher and many other media outlets.[2]

The 4th Listener[edit]

The 4th listener is a moniker for the regular listeners and fans of the show. According to the Dogma Debate press kit: “The 4th Listener is that one person that really gets the show. The truth is, Dogma Debate only has 3 regular listeners, and thousands of 4th Listeners. What started as a random comment, The 4th Listener has now become a badge of honor for those dedicated fans of the show, and we're happy to welcome even more into our 4th Listener family.” A 4th listener fan site is available to paid members. The site includes forum, pre-show, after-show, extended interviews, chat room and exclusive content.


  • David Smalley
  • Brandy Smalley
  • Alix Jules
  • Lydia Allan
  • Donovan Baker


While David Smalley likes to portray himself as a calm, respectful debater who will engage with anyone of any worldview or political stance, this is usually only limited to his discussions with religious figures. When engaging with other people he disagrees with, particularly on the political left, Smalley has been known to get far more upset.

On one particular episode of Dogma Debate, he engaged with comedian Eli Bosnick to debate social justice issues, where he was also confronted with his cohost Alix Jules. In the episode, David argued that if a black speaker on stage is making generalizations about white people, then he should be able to shout back at the speaker that the speaker is being unfair. David has frequently claimed that he knows what it feels like to be discriminated against, because he went to an all-black school. In the same episode, he said that Black Lives Matter protests shouldn't be allowed to shut down roads, on the off chance that an emergency vehicle needs to get to the airport.

This episode, like many episodes, are unavailable as unpaid content as old Dogma Debate episodes are archived over time, available only for special patrons of the show. This puts David as the butt of the joke frequently, since other much larger atheist podcasts are able to be funded without setting up a paywall. It's also public knowledge that when patrons cancelled their membership, Dogma Debate volunteers would email the former patrons to ask why they left.

David found himself in a major public dispute with fellow atheist podcasters Thomas Smith and Andrew Torrez in 2016. Despite claiming to be pro social justice, David Smalley frequently stands against laws that prevent bakeries from discriminating against gay customers, on the basis that he doesn't want to record audio for Benny Hinn. Andrew Torrez, a lawyer, corrected a legal statement on a legal statement regarding gay discrimination by ChristianMingle that David made on Facebook noting that David was an amateur and not a legal expert. David responded "Armature (sic)? Fuck you!", later calling Torrez the amateur because Smalley was the one who debates for a living. Thomas invited David onto an episode of his show Atheistically Speaking (now Serious Inquiries Only) to mend any bad blood between them. David used that time to concern troll to the two, and made demands that Thomas apologize for being flippant in previous criticisms. Among David's complaints were that were that Thomas accused him of being drunk on a previous episode, though in that criticism Thomas was trying to be charitable and came up with being drunk as a possible excuse for his curious behavior. David ended the episode by hanging up after Thomas didn't apologize to him.

Since Smalley moved to California to join the PodcastOne network, his views have shifted rightward. He has been more critical of what he deems as the regressive left and social justice warriors. He made an appearance on The Rubin Report, where the two bashed the regressive left and identity politics.

On a recent episode, David announced that the podcast would have to shut down if the show didn't make it to 1400 patrons. At the time, he had roughly 500 patrons supporting the show.

Notable Appearances[edit]

  • Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Penn & Teller
  • Dan Dennet
  • Les Stroud (Survivorman)
  • Lawrence Krauss
  • Cara Santa Maria
  • Todd Stiefel (Stiefel Freethought Foundation)
  • Dave Silverman (President of American Atheists)
  • David Fitzgerald (author of Nailed: Ten Christian Myths that Show Jesus Never Existed at All and The Mormons: The Complete Heretic’s Guide to Western Religion )
  • David Niose, (author of Nonbeliever Nation)
  • David Tamayo (Hispanic American Freethinkers)
  • Sam Phelps (Westboro Baptist Church)
  • Nate Phelps
  • Dr. Darrel Ray (author of Sex & God)
  • Aron Ra [3]
  • Matt Dillahunty
  • Seth Andrews
  • PZ Myers
  • JT Eberhard
  • Greta Christina (atheist author and blogger)
  • Shelley Segal (atheist musician)
  • Sam Singleton (atheist evangelist)
  • Jerry DeWitt (author of Hope After Faith)
  • Eric Hovind
  • Peter Boghossian
  • Thunderf00t
  • Dr. Barry Creamer (Christian radio host)
  • John Christy (Christian Film Maker)
  • Blake Giunta (founder of
  • DPR Jones
  • Becky Hale (president of AHA)
  • David McAfee (author of Mom, Dad, I'm an Atheist)
  • National Secular Party
  • Keith Lowell Jensen (atheist comedian)
  • Sean Faircloth (author of Attack of the Theocrats!)
  • Katherine Stewart (author of The Good News Club)
  • Destiny Lab (Christian rapper)
  • Jon Sorensen (Catholic apologist)
  • Sye Ten Bruggencate
  • Eric Lounsbery
  • Andrew Skegg
  • Frank Zindler
  • John Karpf

Atheist Audiobooks[edit]

In addition to the radio podcast, Dogma Debate, LLC produces audiobooks for the skeptical and freethinking community.

External links[edit]


[4] [5]