Essay talk:Green Eggs and Ham fallacy

Identity Politics in extremis?

I wonder if this draft article, which I think is probably quite relevant, isn’t a variant on the kind of identity politics, which claims that only women can “really” understand and thus speak on “women’s issues” (otherwise it’s always mansplaining) and so forth for every single identity politics segment you’d care to mention (replace “man” in mansplaining with whatever is perceived to be the oppressive, dominant group in the particular case).

To me, this kind of logic is the most pernicious effect of such types of identity politics, since it so clearly promotes groupthink through a priori dismissal of criticism by any outsider not sharing the ingroup’s identity, not based on the contents or merits of the criticism, but merely based on the identity of the critic. Another problem with this approach, as I see it, is that it promotes fragmentation into ever diminishing subgroups, which, ironically, makes it easy to play the “divide et impera” game, especially in terms of (socio-)economic welfare policies that were originally based on broad coalitions.

Also, a similar fallacy might be Ken Ham’s “How do you know? Were you there?” shtick. ScepticWombat (talk) 07:40, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

If a person doesn't have any convictions, then they're not a person- just a sucker. This fallacy is somewhat like denial of evidence, where you know, you deny all the photos of The Earth or whatnot. Here's an example- "Were you on the moon? How can you say what shape the Earth is?" You know, like that. It's a bit like Identity Politics- although this refers to the fallacy often employed in Identity Politics, and not Identity Politics as a whole. This kind of logic doesn't promote Groupthink- just good hard reason. If something is crazy, and several sane people agree with you, and it's criticized and called out time and time again, you do not need to go to their website and analyze whether the earth is flat or not. It's wholly unnecessary, because they cannot prove their point, and therefore their evidence is nonexistent. I also think the "How do you know? Were you there" thing is a little too specific, as it only applies to Creationism and this fallacy can apply to virtually anything. Logicnsuch (talk) 01:29, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

Blanked pages

@Logicnsuch I take it you don't need those draft pages anymore? To delete a page, go to the top right corner. There's a dropdown menu next to the edit and fossil record buttons. "Vaporize" is the option you want. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 23:53, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, Sir. Logicnsuch (talk) 23:55, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

Essay?

Since Logicnsuch appears to have coined this term, should this be an essay? CowHouse (talk) 06:54, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

I suppose so. Spud (talk) 07:21, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

Of course not. This is a handy fallacy to keep on hand, for anybody interested in the concept of logic or rhetoric. Logicnsuch (talk) 19:41, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

You could do a better job of defending yourself, @Logicnsuch. For example give a precedent,[1] but maybe that's you who posted to Path of Exile Delve? It's too arcane anyway and no one else mentions it. Move to Essay space, @CowHouse. Bongolian (talk) 19:50, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

Nope, I've never been on that forum- although that might be a precedent. I do not know where this fallacy has been mentioned. But I have heard it, and I put it on here so more people could know that it exists. it is a bad fallacy. There may be no sources, but it is just as much a Fallacy as No True Scotsman or any of the others- and thus, is not an essay. You may edit is if you desire, and improve it, but this isn't an essay. This is a fallacy. I am not sure if it has been mentioned before. But it is very real, and thus deserves a whole article. Logicnsuch (talk) 19:54, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

I also support moving this to essayspace, as this appears to be an original concept created by Logicnsuch which is not generally accepted/known elsewhere. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 20:03, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

All fallacies had to be noticed somewhere, you know. Logicnsuch (talk) 20:08, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

I didn't invent this fallacy. I just NOTICED it. I saw that it existed, and figured that, since there's not much about it online, it should be on here. You've encountered this fallacy before, right? It goes around all the time. Look at the examples and try to convince me that they're not common arguments. Logicnsuch (talk) 20:11, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

This article doesn't describe a logical fallacy, it describes a combination of fallacies. Move to Essayspace. ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 20:52, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

Name the fallacies this fallacy is made up of. I think it's a brand new fallacy that I've managed to spot, but you're welcome to tell me why this isn't a legit fallacy. What, are you jealous because I've found my own fallacy? You can go find your own. Logicnsuch (talk) 20:54, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

I don't even think this is an appropriate term for a fallacy Does anyone know anything more descriptive of this fallacy "you can't have an opinion of x if you haven't tried it". Appeal to personal experience? --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 20:56, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

@LeftyGreenMario Inverse appeal to ignorance. Hell, I'm not convinced that this isn't just appeal to ignorance in fancy set dressing. ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 20:59, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

We can't just go around adding fallacies made up by users willy nilly you know. There's so much dubious original research done that it opens floodgates for us to make up practically anything. БaбyЛuigiOнФire🚓^(T|C) 20:59, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

"What, are you jealous because I've found my own fallacy? You can go find your own." begging the question, argumentum ad hominem. ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 21:20, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

Look, I'm not trying to pay attention to the fallacies I use for this discussion. Pick on me all you want, call me a hypocrite if you want, but this is a legitimate fallacy. It is not appeal to ignorance. As Lefty Green Mario pointed out, it's quite the opposite. I didn't make this fallacy up. It's used a lot. Go out and find it. It really does exist. This isn't dubious original research. I see this fallacy being used, I gotta admit it. Go and look at my article. It's absolutely legit. Don't just judge this fallacy because nobody else has noticed it. Judge it by its use as a fallacy. Aristotle came up with his own fallacies. All fallacies have to be noticed somewhere. As the discoverer of this fallacy, I'd say I have the right to name it- although you can suggest other names if you want. I like the photo of the Green Eggs And Ham cafe that somebody submitted- to rename this fallacy would mean the removal of that picture. I think the name is quite kitschy. Note- quit the bans. I hate not being able to discuss on this talk page for over an hour. If I get out of hand, just block me from the specific pages where I've committed an error. But please don't block me from talk pages. Logicnsuch (talk) 22:16, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

@Logicnsuch I'm not locking down multiple pages because you decided to edit war. You edit war on one page, that maybe gets locked. You edit war on multiple pages, you get blocked. Learn to explain yourself better and cease edit warring (it's an annoying habit that you seem to have picked up) or learn to enjoy timeout. Besides I left you your talkpage. ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 22:25, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

"Look it up" is not a substitute for a lack of sources on your end. It's your responsibility to provide substantial support for your assertions, not ours to do your homework for you. I highly doubt you "discovered" this fallacy, as I'm sure there has been countless debate using the "you haven't seen the movie so you can't have a valid opinion". Anyhow, isn't this just a souped up Courtier's Reply and How do you know? Were you there?? The logic boils down to those, closest thing to my own coining "appeal to personal experience". --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 23:26, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

Can I just move this to essayspace and have done? Nobody other than the original author seems to disagree with that option. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 23:47, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

Okey dokey. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 23:52, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

*deep assassin voice* It is done. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 23:58, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

Nothing wrong to have it on essay space, by the way. I even encourage it, we all do, the more essays the merrier. But until you can prove to find official sources for widespread use, it won't go on mainspace. БaбyЛuigiOнФire🚓^(T|C) 00:30, 23 September 2018 (UTC)