Template talk:Anarchism

From RationalWiki
Jump to: navigation, search

Is it worth edit warring over a silly slogan? --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario! 21:10, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

@LeftyGreenMario Given it is a misuse of the no true scotsman fallacy, also known as the fallacy fallacy, I think it should be removed. Further, given neither of the users with whom I am disputing have made any effort to treat myself and others in good faith, I would question their ability to make such distinctions. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 21:14, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
I second this removal, Raven's "improvement" is deliberately provocative shit-stirring. β€” Oxyaena Harass 21:23, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
I don't see Raven's edit is justified. It's an incorrect appeal to a No True Scotsman and those ideologies actually don't qualify under the definition of anarchism. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario! 00:11, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
Which definition of anarchism? β€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk 🌹 Flag of Europe.svg 00:17, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
A very general one. No state, no established hierarchy. Monarchism and capitalism by definition don't adhere. I don't want to go into intricate caveats and specifics because that's not the appropriate place, but in a very general sense, it doesn't make sense to suggest otherwise, with air quotes and all. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario! 00:28, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

What's the problem with "This is not RadicalWiki"?[edit]

β€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk 🌹 Flag of Europe.svg 00:21, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

What was the problem with the previous version? Why did it need to change in the first place?-Flandres (talk) 00:23, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
Shake it up sometimes? β€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk 🌹 Flag of Europe.svg 00:25, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
What was the problem with RadicalWiki? Nothing. The problem was the inverted commas on "real anarchism". Spud (talk) 00:26, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
Raven, that's an obvious excuse, and what's more it's a badly made excuse. If you really felt we should just change our templates for the sake of novelty, why did you edit a subject of recent tension first? Tension, I might add, which has resulted in edit wars over your edits specifically with a coop case even pinning you at the center of the dispute? You must have realized this would start an edit war-in that context, this should be read as a deliberate act of provocation. It has no other meaningful purpose.-Flandres (talk) 00:33, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
I liked that quote. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 01:14, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
Which quote?-Flandres (talk) 01:41, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
@Flandres The one Raven added. I also like the "smash the state!" one. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 03:17, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
Not even GC took issue with it! WTF @Flandres β€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk 🌹 Flag of Europe.svg 05:56, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

I propose a vote[edit]

What should the header say?

"Smash the state" (current)[edit]

  1. Leave it as-is. Cosmikdebris (talk) 01:34, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
    @Cosmikdebris Did you mean to post that message under Goat? ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 01:38, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
    Moved it. Cosmikdebris (talk) 01:54, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
  2. More relevant to anarchism as a topic. Does what a header should do. Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 02:12, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
  3. Here we see a wild Corvid in its natural habitat, decisively losing a mob vote.-Flandres (talk) 02:26, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
    More votes are to come, as I will edit a lot of things that the far-left mob won't like, I promise. This isn't over by a long shot. @Flandres β€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk 🌹 Flag of Europe.svg 11:59, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
  4. Not really the reason why I restored the last version from before the squabbling started. But yes. Leave it that way. Spud (talk) 05:10, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
  5. β€” Oxyaena Harass 10:58, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

"This is not RadicalWiki!" (alternative)[edit]

  1. socdemgang. β€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk 🌹 Flag of Europe.svg 01:24, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Goat[edit]

  1. what I wrote originally was objectively superior to the new version you all want. Smh smh. EK (talk) 10:35, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
  2. interesting how there is no counter argument but gloating (haha corvid getting owned) and "no don't change it" even though there is no reason given why it's bad. β€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk 🌹 Flag of Europe.svg 14:38, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
You clearly did not read Duce's post then.-Flandres (talk) 14:45, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
The Template:Economics' header features "dismal science". its clearly meant as a joke. β€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk 🌹 Flag of Europe.svg 14:50, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
No, the dismal science has been a term used to describe economics since Thomas Carlyle coined it in the 19th century. It is far more relevant to its subject than a childish attempt to pick a fight with a few left wing users.-Flandres (talk) 14:53, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
""The dismal science" is a derogatory alternative name for economics coined by the Victorian historian Thomas Carlyle in the 19th century." β€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk 🌹 Flag of Europe.svg 14:55, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
And how does that vindicate your proposed heading, which is not, you know, a widely used term among academics?-Flandres (talk) 14:57, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

β”Œβ”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”˜ Are you claiming "the dismal science" is a "widely used term among academics"? β€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk 🌹 Flag of Europe.svg 14:58, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Sure, not a serious name. It is used in essays, books, and op-eds constantly, even by economists themselves, as a joke. The point is that we are referring to a widely used term, rather than a phrase you made up to start a edit war. Some random person reading our articles would not get it, but they would get "smash the state," because that is something anarchists actually regularly talk about.-Flandres (talk) 15:02, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
"This is not RadicalWiki" is also a joke. A really harmless one, too. Not even GC took issue with it. β€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk 🌹 Flag of Europe.svg 15:04, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
Again, is it widely used among anarchists and prominent people(activists and political scientists, for instance) talking about anarchism like the term "dismal science" is about economics?-Flandres (talk) 15:06, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
No, it's a joke. A harmless joke. Just like "dismal science". β€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk 🌹 Flag of Europe.svg 15:13, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
You have yet to address the "widely used" argument-would people just stopping by our website looking for some quick info get "Radicalwiki" more than "smash the state", quite literally the core tenant of all anarchism? Speaking of, you still have given no strong reason why we need to change this header so badly in the first place when it describes its subject so perfectly.-Flandres (talk) 15:17, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
"Smash the state" doesn't really explain anarchism, but that's okay, seems like you have a dog in this fight to not want to change it. You are getting your way, since the anarchist mob is on your side. β€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk 🌹 Flag of Europe.svg 15:20, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
A)"Smash the state" does explain anarchism perfectly considering they hate the state and view it as the prime source of evil.B) Your complaining that "smash the state" somehow does not describe anarchism is kinda moot when "this is not Radicalwiki" does not explain it either.C) Again, of all the people voting against you only Oxy is a self-described anarchist. There is no "anarchist mob."-Flandres (talk) 15:27, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

β”Œβ”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”˜ Sure thing, so what is your actual argument against "This is not RadicalWiki!"? Like, aside from your wish to undo anything I do? β€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk 🌹 Flag of Europe.svg 15:29, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

I've said it repeatedly, you just ignore it because you can't refute it-it does not describe anarchism as well as the current heading to a more neutral observer. Also, I do not wish to undo everything you do...it's just the we only encounter each other when you make terrible edits. At some point you have to stop blaming a mythical anarchist mob conspiring to sabotage you, and admit the blame just might lie on your end.-Flandres (talk) 15:35, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
I disagree, but you win. Good job. β€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk 🌹 Flag of Europe.svg 15:39, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

β”Œβ”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”˜ Perhaps we should topic ban Raven from anarchism. β€” Oxyaena Harass 16:06, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Icon change?[edit]

I thought about updating the icon. Using this:

Circle-A red.svg

In the center instead of

A circulada anarquista (negra).svg

I find the upper one more interesting than the lower one. β€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk 🌹 Flag of Europe.svg 16:08, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Yes, but make it white. Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 18:11, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, that looks a lot better now thanks. Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 20:26, 19 August 2020 (UTC)