Talk:Nancy Pelosi

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Criticism

I'm not terribly familiar with RW's writing style, but could we be a little more critical of Pelosi here? RW rightly bashes the assholes like Sean Hannity, but she's just as bad at bitching about how Republicans are the root of all evil and blaming everyone else for Congress' problems. If you like, I can link you to a couple Charlie Rose interviews where she does nothing but point fingers at Republicans, and who could forget her using the closing statement for the first bailout to pontificate about how evil Republicans are? 24.45.33.231 (talk) 22:00, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

In a Congress consisting of two parties pointing fingers at each other on absolutely everything, her partisanship isn't especially unique. We're more focused on addressing loony opinions (otherwise we'd need to create articles on 498 more politicians).

Pull up some specific quotes you have issue with. Osaka Sun (talk) 22:21, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

It'll be a little while before I can find the exact quotes, but I had in mind the aforementioned speech in front of the House of Representatives in 2008. If I'm remembering that right, it was basically soapboxing about how "they" are the root of all evil, and it was facepalm/headdesk inducing. I'm sure the transcript exists somewhere, and I'll search for that. Just figured I should check here before doing anything. 24.45.33.231 (talk) 07:05, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Another obscure one is what she's said about global warming in an interview with Charlie Rose sometime in the past year or so, and before that in at least one other interview from 2007: "reverse global warming". Not even stop or slow. Rose wasn't the least bit skeptical of what policies she proposed that could possibly do that, and her insistence on saying it for so long makes me think she's never looked at the reductions needed to even slow, much less stop or reverse the change. I feel like I could go on for some long rant about how crazy so many people are for touting such widely inadequate "solutions" to such a big problem and the last thing we need is to hear someone like Pelosi act like there's some simple push button fix. ^{— Unsigned, by: 70.194.64.224 / talk / contribs (signed by bot)} 08:06, 01 March 2014 (UTC)

Like nearly all politicians she has said some *spectacularly* wrong statements. As stated above, one could easily make an article for each politician ever. That not withstanding... this article does seem to lack any legitimate criticism other than she is wildly partizan. I will not personally start editing this article unless others think that I should because given the controversial nature of serving politicians, I don't want to get into edit wars. B4Xiphos (talk) 10:30, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

I think it is very inappropriate to assign Nancy Pelosi a category called 'Centrist Stupidity'.

She is a member of the Congressional Progressive Caucus. CPC is known to be radical left in the U.S. standard, but it is also socially democratic center-left or left in European standards, NOT liberal centrist.

In other words, he was mistaken for a centrist by writing only the negative aspects of Pelosi in the document. In the first place, the stakes of radicals in the Democratic Party after Bernie Sanders seem relatively less progressive, not that she is a centrist in the international political context, and not all the more by American political standards.--Umaru16 (talk) 22:30, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Bernie Sanders, in particular, is not considered a center-left by European standards. He said he supported the Nordic model and social democracy, but as a young man he joined the Liberty Union Party, a far-left party, and is still more of a moderate "democratic socialist". Of course, his European health insurance policy can be seen as center-left, but other economic and social policies are never center-left even in European standards. Nancy Pelosi is also more of a center-leftist, not a centrist.--Umaru16 (talk) 22:37, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

It is true that U.S. politics are more conservative than Europe, but the investigation of "liberalism" used in the U.S. is only used as a contrast to "conservatism," not to centrist liberalism in Europe. In particular, social liberalism is often classified as center-left even in Europe. (Since the 21st century, Europe's past welfare policies have retreated, labor rights have weakened, and the power of financial capital has become stronger.)--Umaru16 (talk) 22:43, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Centrist means liberal political positions such as Obama and Hillary, who belong to the Center to Center-left 'New Democratic Coalition'. Pelosi's voting tendencies, economic and social tendencies, are far more left-wing than the NPC.--Umaru16 (talk) 22:52, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Given her rather spotty support, if not occasional outright hostility for social democratic policies (Sanders, AOC, etc) I find the claims of her as leftwing to be... dubious. Don't get me wrong, her record indicates that she's left-leaning, but that doesn't really make her left wing proper. Further, The original arguemnt that was voiced in the edit summaries is... less than compelling. One could equally argue that a Democrat could never be rightwing, simply by virtue of being a Democrat, and such a case would be equally tenuous. To be center-left is to have sympathies for leftwing ideals or policy but be unable to take the plunge into the left proper. As such, Pelosi is a centrist. ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 23:10, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Sanders and AOC tend to be closer to democratic socialism(left-wing to far-left) than to social democracy(center-left). In particular, the AOC once claimed to dismantle the police and put forward the modern monetary theory, which can be called European social democracy? Except for health insurance policies, Bernie Sanders is more of a radical left in Europe in the 21st century. Therefore, Nancy Pelosi is never a centrist.--Umaru16 (talk) 23:21, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Some Democrats have center-right politicians. Joseph Manchin III is one example. But Pelosi is a left-winger, not a centrist.--Umaru16 (talk) 23:33, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Would you provide citations for these claims? Please do include citations for Democratic Socialism being "far-left". ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 23:26, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

The inclusion of 'social democracy' in the concept of democratic socialism would be center-left to far-left, but parties that aim at simple 'democratic socialism' factions are also classified as left-wing or far-left in Europe. (ex. La France Insoumise, The Left (Germany), etc.)In the United States, the view that "social democracy" is not a type of socialism is more dominant, so "democratic socialism" in the general sense is more distinct from the center-left "social democracy." And as mentioned above, Nancy Pelosi is a member of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, which advocates social democracy, and his voting tendency is more of a social democracy because of his left-leaning tendency.--Umaru16 (talk) 23:44, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Personally, as a European, I would consider Pelosi to be center right. Her lack of a spine on many issues, in spite of stated support of them lead me to believe that her being a part of the CPC is not factoring a ton in her actual decision making. From what I know, economically (which this page makes little mention of) she follows the DNC, which is fairly firmly on the center-right end of politics. Just my 0.02 in this entire debacle. As for centrist stupidity, christ people stop misapplying the category. There is a description for it, please read it. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 23:50, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

We could replace the current category with the normal "centrists" category. ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 23:57, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

It's just a personal opinion. Nancy Pelosi's "left-wing" is proven by various media reports, his tendency to vote, and as long as she belongs to the CPC, she can never be seen as a centrist. I am South Korean, and in fact, some politicians in the Minjoo Party of Korea will appear to be Christian fundamentalist or conservative right-wing. One thing is for sure, she is full of "leftists" in U.S. political standards, but there is no "center-right" basis at all. There is no evidence that she is actually a "center-left."--Umaru16 (talk) 00:00, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

And let me ask you another question. In Europe, are there any centre-left members of the Social Democratic Party or the Social Democratic Party who insist on the dissolution of the police, the modern monetary theory, or the dissolution of the financial world? It's not that I don't know European politics either.--Umaru16 (talk) 00:00, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

No matter how hard she looks at her political orientation, if she is a "center-left"/"left-wing", she may be convinced, but she is not a "centrist" or "center-right".--Umaru16 (talk) 00:03, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

I mean, when was the last time police in Europe ran around committing open human rights violations en masse? Further, perhaps it's because English isn't your first language, but someone who's left of center is, well, Left of Center. As I explained before, those who are center-left may have some sympathies for left-wing policy or ideals, but they are, definitionally, centrists. Hence "center-left. ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 01:09, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

And again I must point out that self applied group membership is a poor indicator of ideological views, since in politics lying and misdirection are commonplace. I would hope you aren't naive enough to take someone's ideological views from the name of the groups they are members of, especially since you're from Korea, the northern portion of which is somewhat notorious for such bullshit. ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 01:14, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Can't we just create a center-left and a center-right category and call it a day? GeeJayK (talk) 01:28, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

@GeeJayK I'd be fine with that option. I have no idea how Umaru would feel though. ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 01:33, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

To be honest, I don't think Nancy Pelosi is a "Center-left" basis either. His voting tendencies are clearly left-leaning. Regardless of whether he belongs to the CPC or not, the rationale itself is very poor, and the only reason is that he is more moderate than radical leftists in the party such as Sanders and AOC. This cannot be seen as a basis for her to be called "Centrist" or "Center-left".--Umaru16 (talk) 01:58, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

My opinion is simple. Only the category "Centrist" needs to be removed. It is okay to criticize Nancy Pelosi's non-progressive tendencies in the content. But she has little evidence in the U.S. political context to call "Centrist" or "Center-left."--Umaru16 (talk) 02:01, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

The European political model is not a global standard. Now the world is not fully globalized, so there can be no standard political model. For now, the South Korean media views her as "Left-Wing."'아르마니 입는 좌파' 여걸 의장의 귀환("Left-wing wearing Armani." The return of Chairman Heroine.)78세 여장부, 72세 트럼프 누를까? (Can a 78-year-old female lead beat a 72-year-old Trump?) "펠로시는 민주당 내에서도 '골수 좌파'로 통한다."(Pelosi is also known as a 'the left-wing to the bone' within the Democratic Party.] I couldn't find a single article in the South Korean media that reported her as a middle-left(온건 좌파) or center-left(중도좌파). Not to mention the U.S. media.--Umaru16 (talk) 05:08, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Pelosi's leadership during the Trump presidency was a disaster. ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 05:14, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

However, there is very little evidence to see her as a'centrist' category. American politics polarized, Pelosi only appears to be her moderate on one side, and far-right conservatives who support her Trump see her as her far-left.--Umaru16 (talk) 05:18, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ OF COURSE THERE ISN'T WHEN YOU FLAT OUT IGNORE IT YOU FUCKING DOLT!!!! ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 05:24, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

So do you have enough objective evidence to call her a "CENTRIST"? U FUCKIN IDIOT!!!!!!Umaru16 (talk) 05:28, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

It's just that Pelosi seems to be a centrist because you're a BLOODY FAR LEFT.--Umaru16 (talk) 05:31, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

I'll say it again. Bring reasonable evidence that she is a centrist. DOT'T JUST BRING YOUR DELUSION. If there is insufficient evidence, the category "Centrist Stupidity" should be removed.--Umaru16 (talk) 05:39, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

I think the RW drinking game calls to take a shot for another person taking GC as an actual commie, yeah? Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 05:56, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

First, I wouldn't call any political party in America radical left. Virtually nobody advocates for state atheism, anarchism, or full or partial communism and holds office in the federal government. Standards may be different in Korea, but they cannot be applied to America. Secondly, I'd say there's sufficient evidence to indicate that of the long and varied groupings of ideologies under the Left in America, she's somewhere in the center of it. First, she remained staunchly opposed to impeaching then-President Bush. Someone on the more left-side-of-things wouldn't do this. Furthermore, she's no longer part of the CPC-and hasn't been in it for nearly 17 years! She left in 2003, and never returned to the caucus. Furthermore, she strongly supported the espionage efforts of the Bush administration, specifically the NSA surveillance program PRISM. Continuing onwards to foreign policy, she's a strong supporter of Israel, supporting their settlement-building in Gaza and the West Bank. All of these positions place her more towards the center, as no left-wing politician in America would share all or most of these views. IveBeenFrank (talk) 10:30, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Well... Actually, South Korea is a very very ultra-conservative country. In South Korea, political forces classified as far-left do not openly advocate anarchism or communism. However, not all extreme leftists show a tendency toward national atheism, anarchism, or communism. Even in Europe, which is more progressive than the U.S., there are many far-left parties that advocate democratic socialism, not communism or anarchism. In addition, I think the rationale for Nancy Pelosi's centrism is even weaker because U.S. politics is more conservative than Europe.--Umaru16 (talk) 12:03, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

@DuceMoosolini To be fair, Umaru didn't call me a commie. ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 19:44, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

I would say that the definition of right and left is slightly in US politics than in South Korea. For instance, religion plays a big role in US, while in South Korea almost 60% of the population is irreligious (I'm ignoring here the fact that the very idea of Religion in Asia is also different because of syncretism), enough for 20% of the American population to consider you guys a bunch of commies. GeeJayK (talk) 20:24, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

That being said, I consider myself a centrist and I'm definitely on the right of Nancy. Though I'm from Brazil, a country that, just like in US, the center ceased to exist over the last decade, and now the far right and the far left are far more prominent. GeeJayK (talk) 20:29, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

South Korea is non-religious but very conservative and LGBT-hating. The most influential and lobbying group in LGBT disgust is the Protestant group in Korea. Unlike Protestant groups in the U.S., Korean Protestants have many fundamentalists.--Umaru16 (talk) 22:33, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

In South Korea, few people disliked Trump and were favorable to Biden, but regardless of whether they were religious or not, most people are very conservative beyond Trump. South Koreans hate Trump because he attempts to "change the existing system" in international relations. (Trump is a far-right populist, but he is different from conservatism in the general sense.)--Umaru16 (talk) 22:33, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

Of course I agree with your view of Nancy very much. She is not a centrist.--Umaru16 (talk) 22:35, 8 February 2021 (UTC)