User talk:Tmtoulouse/Archive12

From RationalWiki
Jump to navigation Jump to search

One For Logic[edit]

Ha! Have you been following my exploits on Conservapedia? OneForLogic 17:10, 7 July 2008 (EDT)

Retroactively, I was alerted by your discussion at Wikipedia, and followed the bouncing ball. Welcome and I hope you find us more hospitable :). tmtoulouse beleaguer 17:14, 7 July 2008 (EDT)
Would we be here if we weren't? That seemed like an attempt at "reasoning" and logic. Bad boy. That's not the way things are done on Conservapedia. The way conservapedia works is good, and it shall remain. Godspeed.

P.S, you got Bugled. Twice

--*Gen. S.T. Shrink* Get to the bunker 17:19, 7 July 2008 (EDT)

Sweet. I was wondering when they were going to get around to banning me. I kind of figured the site being first locked-down then just being down were in my honor, as Aschlafly tried to figure out what to do about me. What else of interest was going on yesterday? OneForLogic 17:43, 7 July 2008 (EDT)
Ummm....No idea. You (or rather AgainstRepression) was a focus of mine yesterday. Mainly the usual. Went down a time or two. But, if you look hard enough, which isn't hard at all, you get a lot. --*Gen. S.T. Shrink* Get to the bunker 21:14, 7 July 2008 (EDT)
Hey, Tentacles, it's time to archive this page! ħumanUser talk:Human 21:16, 7 July 2008 (EDT)

Anti-science, logical positivism and moderation[edit]

The problem of growing anti-science sentiment is definitely one I'd be interested discussing. I imagine lots of people here would be interested in this. Should a new debate page be created for it, or would it fit in a debate already underway? I'm afraid I've never thought about logical positivism in the kind of formal terms used, for example, in the Wikipedia article, so I'm not sure how good a critique I could offer on that right now. I could talk about issue relating to moderation, neutrality, and atheism for as long as you like. I've been working on a blog over the last year, some of which would help explain my relationship with atheism. Look for the 'personal philosophy' and 'conflict' posts if you're interested. OneForLogic 21:18, 7 July 2008 (EDT)

You might want to link your blog from RationalWiki:Blogroll. As far as anti-science stuff, any reasonably cogent "subject" could easily have its own article here, whether you want to play at writing with us, or just suggest specific targets. ħumanUser talk:Human 21:56, 7 July 2008 (EDT)
I guess I shouldn't be surprised you guys have a list of your blogs. Mine is now under 'Miscellaneous'. I could definitely do some pointing of targets, and I probably will do some reading and writing here when I have time. OneForLogic 22:17, 7 July 2008 (EDT)


I have moved the blogs discussion to Talk:Main Page.--Bobbing up 09:56, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

Lost talk page[edit]

When moving RationalWiki:Newcomers from my private space to the RW space I had a sudden attack of stupidity and managed to lose the talk page. There is some more info on Human's talk page under "Could you have a look at something? Is there any way to get the talk page back? (sorry) --Bobbing up 16:42, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

Specifically, this revision, I think: ħumanUser talk:Human 17:13, 10 July 2008 (EDT)
It appears to have overwritten the database, how important is it that we get it back? The only way would be to go through various backups and see if I can find one. tmtoulouse beleaguer 17:21, 10 July 2008 (EDT)
It had comment from RA suggesting that "Rational Point of View" was not the best name for our POV and a discussion about the vandal break. RA and Proxima Centauri felt it was an imposition on new users and they were going to take it up with you. Human said it wasn't much of a problem, and there was another question about the possibility of fast tracking some new users through it. And that's about it.--Bobbing up 17:30, 10 July 2008 (EDT)
It's not hypercritical, although if it's on a backup it would be nice to copy/paste it. It did sit all last night, I think? ħumanUser talk:Human 17:34, 10 July 2008 (EDT)
Awfully convenient for complaints to be flushed down the potty, Bob M. RWW may yet have its censorship article. Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" (cover your eyes!) 17:38, 10 July 2008 (EDT)
Ah yes, Hans. But I've mentioned them here. Although I suppose you've only got my word for that,--Bobbing up 17:50, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

You are teh Smart Tmtoulouse. No doubt RWW will claim teh credit though.--Bobbing up 18:03, 10 July 2008 (EDT)


I recently saw the block I recieved, and am still recovering from how heavily I am laughing at it... (can't type anymore!) Javascap 21:05, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

I think we should feature our block log more prominently, since it is one of the funnier parts of RW, that most people would never think to look at... ħumanUser talk:Human 21:51, 10 July 2008 (EDT)


Current RationalWikiWiki policy requires that all movable pages be locked to circumvent pagemove vandals. This task has proven to be both tedious and easily forgotten. Creating a bot to do it would be quite handy, but that is beyond my technical ability. If you would be so kind, could you or one of your associates here create a bot ("Lockbot") for RWW designed to lock pages from moving by non-syops? (Normal editing by anyone must remain unaffected.) Much obliged, Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" (cover your eyes!) 16:48, 12 July 2008 (EDT)

It would be called Protect-o-bot, as I outlined in my original proposal. :P <blink></blink> <blink></blink> 16:55, 12 July 2008 (EDT)
We should hash out what it's name will be on RWW, not here. Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" (cover your eyes!) 17:06, 12 July 2008 (EDT)
Whoa do I have associates that can create bots? Cool! Who? Wouldn't it be easier to set your LocalSettings.php file to prevent moving from anyone but sysops? tmtoulouse beleaguer 22:20, 12 July 2008 (EDT)
I'd make a spelling and chastising bot, but I don't know how... will someone teach me? ħumanUser talk:Human 22:26, 12 July 2008 (EDT)
Sure, how is your PERL? tmtoulouse beleaguer 22:33, 12 July 2008 (EDT)
My Perl is great. I think. --λινυσ() 00:26, 13 July 2008 (EDT)
I got my camel... right in front of me... The scripts on my websites all use it. Here is what I know: End every line with a semi colon or you phail!!! ħumanUser talk:Human 22:53, 12 July 2008 (EDT)
Like I said, I bought the "manual" and can read it.... lectures from the master to follow soon? ħumanUser talk:Human 01:54, 13 July 2008 (EDT)
I do not have access to the localsettings file. Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" (cover your eyes!) 23:48, 12 July 2008 (EDT)
How utterly atrocious, you should move RWW to our server. In the mean time I can write something but it will need sysops access. 23:52, 12 July 2008 (EDT)
Also if we move again we will finally be able to take care of those HAGGER?!?! pages. --Admin2 23:58, 12 July 2008 (EDT)
Thank you. And I assumed it would need to have sysop rights. Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" (cover your eyes!) 00:13, 13 July 2008 (EDT)
I think this is a discussion best had on RationalWikiWiki, Admin. Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" (cover your eyes!) 00:13, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

If you would be so kind as to address a few concerns I have, Tmtoulouse? Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" (cover your eyes!) 00:47, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

snip pinS[edit]

<blink></blink> <blink></blink> rats live on no evil staR

ħumanUser talk:Human !Madam, I'm Adam; able I was ere I saw Elba...


I saw you were asking some MediaWiki SQL questions here. I did a lot of query work on the toolserver, and was familiar with MediaWiki's schema at the time that I left. I'd be happy to try to help with any SQL questions you might have. One answer to that question is:

SELECT name, date, otherstuff FROM table ORDER BY date DESC LIMIT 1;

Also, I sent you an email about an idea I had. --Interiot 22:58, 15 July 2008 (EDT)

A group by allows you to use the aggregate functions in the select statement.

 SELECT name, max(date) FROM table GROUP BY name;

You could eaisly extend that query to also add the first, and how many edits:

 SELECT name, max(date), min(date), count(1) FROM table GROUP BY name;

I believe this is the correct way to do it in MySQL too - it certainly is the right way in oracle.

--Shagie 23:21, 15 July 2008 (EDT)

July 2008[edit]

Hi. Welcome to RationalWiki. While everyone is welcome to make constructive edits to this site, at least one of your recent edits has been identified as vandalism and has been reverted. Further vandalism may result in your account being blocked.


So, you took the fascist way out? HenryS 23:35, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

Always. tmtoulouse beleaguer 23:36, 16 July 2008 (EDT)
Did you just refer to yourself as the "Deathstar"? HenryS 23:38, 16 July 2008 (EDT)
Not me, but my creation. tmtoulouse beleaguer 23:38, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

Troy, if you want me to stop pasting that crap all over this wiki you will have to tell me what it was. Bohdan2 00:01, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

Spam. tmtoulouse beleaguer 00:05, 17 July 2008 (EDT)
I took the fascist all the way out to the woodshed and gave him a licking with a wet noodle. ħumanUser talk:Human 00:08, 17 July 2008 (EDT)
Uh-oh. I think Huew has been drinking too much again. Bohdan2 00:16, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

Bohdan, the second you start publicaly calling your fellow CP'ers on their antics, THEN you get the moral high ground in this argument. Not before. --Gulik 00:17, 17 July 2008 (EDT)


I was unencumbered while removing some malware-type information[edit]

Tom, I tried to rub off the downloader, but the program was a killr. The worm didn't rub off the windows, and the antispyware kept removing the malware. Then the malware failed to liquidate! Bohdan2 01:05, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

It is a common problem for people of a certain age I am sure, but luckily there are pills for that these days. tmtoulouse beleaguer 01:22, 17 July 2008 (EDT)
Like what? Pethidine? Bohdan2 01:29, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

New voting system[edit]

I tried clicking on the up arrow for Ken's deviousness in WIGO but the displayed value didn't change. Jollyfish.gifGenghisOur ignorance is God; what we know is science. 12:01, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

Hmm, that is odd, works for me and for when I come in as a proxy, can you try again? Try both down and up, then let me know again. tmtoulouse beleaguer 12:04, 17 July 2008 (EDT)
Nothing with either button. Jollyfish.gifGenghisOur ignorance is God; what we know is science. 12:07, 17 July 2008 (EDT)
2Wigo test
When you click does the page reload? tmtoulouse beleaguer 12:09, 17 July 2008 (EDT)
Yes it does. Jollyfish.gifGenghisOur ignorance is God; what we know is science. 12:11, 17 July 2008 (EDT)
Can you try again? I have added a series of "or die" statements that should return an error if it's an sql issue. Let me know if you get an error message. tmtoulouse beleaguer 12:14, 17 July 2008 (EDT)
No error messages but no change either. Can other people have a go and only press the up arrow so that we don't get coincidental clicks cancelling each other out? Jollyfish.gifGenghisOur ignorance is God; what we know is science. 12:24, 17 July 2008 (EDT)
Clicked on up went from one to two.--Try again. Same thing on Firefox.Bobbing up 12:31, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

What browser are you using GK? tmtoulouse beleaguer 12:32, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

On Firefox I now get: up

Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /home/rationa1/public_html/wigo.php:8) in /home/rationa1/public_html/wigo.php on line 43--Bobbing up 12:37, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

Try again. Same thing on Firefox.--Bobbing up 12:39, 17 July 2008 (EDT)
Yea I left a debug statement in accidentally, should be fixed. tmtoulouse beleaguer 12:40, 17 July 2008 (EDT)
Im using IE. Just fired up FF and it seems to work but the values sometimes increment/decrements by 2! Jollyfish.gifGenghisOur ignorance is God; what we know is science. 12:44, 17 July 2008 (EDT)
Yea, IE is not passing the button values for some reason working on that now. As far as the increment of "two" that is because you "change" your vote. So if you voted "up" then switched to "down" it removes the "up" vote and adds a "down" vote so it is comes out as -2. tmtoulouse beleaguer 12:45, 17 July 2008 (EDT)
OK, makes sense. I've got a plane to catch so will have to sign off now. Jollyfish.gifGenghisOur ignorance is God; what we know is science. 12:48, 17 July 2008 (EDT)
Good luck on your trip, IE should work now. Thanks for your help. tmtoulouse beleaguer 12:52, 17 July 2008 (EDT)
Firefox no longer increments anything. However it reduces by two.--Bobbing up 13:37, 17 July 2008 (EDT)
So if you vote "down" then vote "up" it doesn't go up? tmtoulouse beleaguer 13:43, 17 July 2008 (EDT)
IE under Vista works at the airport. (Not my PC.) :) Jollyfish.gifGenghisOur ignorance is God; what we know is science. 14:34, 17 July 2008 (EDT)
Just voted down firefox vista. No change. 3.--Bobbing up 14:44, 17 July 2008 (EDT)
Just voted up firefox vista. Went from 3 to 5.--Bobbing up 14:45, 17 July 2008 (EDT)
Just voted down. went from 5 to 3.--Bobbing up 14:46, 17 July 2008 (EDT)
Just voted up. Went from 3 to 5.--Bobbing up 14:47, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

That seems like it is working as intended then. tmtoulouse beleaguer 14:49, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

Down on IE went 5 to 3.--Bobbing up 14:50, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

Sorry if this old Welshman has a problem here. But why should it move two places for one vote? Is this some US thing?--Bobbing up 14:52, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

Ah I see that 's mentioned above.--Bobbing up 14:55, 17 July 2008 (EDT)
Because you are changing your vote. Let's say the vote is 2 and you have not voted. When you vote "up" it moves to 3. Now let's say you change your mind and vote "down". Well first it removes your previous "up" vote so we are back to 2, and then adds your "down" vote making it 1. tmtoulouse beleaguer 14:55, 17 July 2008 (EDT)
Ok. But my IE vote was as a sock on a different browser - does it know my IP?--Bobbing up 14:57, 17 July 2008 (EDT)
Yes, your vote is stored based on your IP not your account. tmtoulouse beleaguer 14:59, 17 July 2008 (EDT)
Big brother or what!Ohmy.gif --Bobbing up 15:04, 17 July 2008 (EDT)
It is really the only way that makes sense, otherwise there is too much room for manipulating the vote counts. The information is of course only accessible server side, and since I all ready have all your IP addresses it is nothing new :). tmtoulouse beleaguer 15:06, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

Parse error:[edit]

I seem to be getting this from time to time:

  • Parse error: syntax error, unexpected '/' in /home/rationa1/public_html/wiki/extensions/poly.php on line 418--Bobbing up 16:14, 17 July 2008 (EDT)
Aye, but keep it a secret. Actually 99 percent of the time a parse error like that means that I am programming something in the wiki and forgot a semicolon. I try and get it resolved with in a few seconds of it happening. tmtoulouse beleaguer 16:19, 17 July 2008 (EDT)
By the way, Trent, is the source for the extension GPL'd or similar? We can't have non-free code lying around. --λινυσ() 16:35, 17 July 2008 (EDT)
The code is certainly not copyrighted or anything. I just haven't set up a repository for it cause I can't imagine there is any interest in it. Anyone who wants it is free to ask for it. tmtoulouse beleaguer 16:37, 17 July 2008 (EDT)


Please block yourself for the rest of the week so we can get the wiki back up and running without you messing everything up. Thanks. Bohdan2 00:20, 18 July 2008 (EDT)

Ah but my messing things up can not be stopped by a mere block. tmtoulouse beleaguer 00:23, 18 July 2008 (EDT)
In that case, go lock yourself in a room without a computer. Bohdan2 00:29, 18 July 2008 (EDT)
Nah. tmtoulouse beleaguer 00:30, 18 July 2008 (EDT)
Go do something funny on CP or something. Like delete that naked mole rats article for obscenity. tmtoulouse beleaguer 00:31, 18 July 2008 (EDT)
Was that funny? Bohdan2 00:37, 18 July 2008 (EDT)
Meh, the lulz comes from the edit comments, which I see you neglected. 2/10. tmtoulouse beleaguer 00:39, 18 July 2008 (EDT)
That was the whole point! Something different! Something unique. You are clearly a philistine. Bohdan2 00:40, 18 July 2008 (EDT)
Meh, guess it is bed time after all. tmtoulouse beleaguer 00:42, 18 July 2008 (EDT)

Repentant vandal[edit]

User:ReligionSucks has asked to be let out of the vandal bin. He seems to have been making positive edits as an IP.--Bobbing up 10:31, 18 July 2008 (EDT)

Bob, I'll take him out. If he reoffends then he goes back in. Jollyfish.gifGenghisOur ignorance is God; what we know is science. 10:38, 18 July 2008 (EDT)
Hi Genghis - Of course, sorry forgot you were made crat.--Bobbing up 11:14, 18 July 2008 (EDT)
I may look into the ability to remove users from the vandal group for sysops, but so far the demand has not outpaced the work force. tmtoulouse beleaguer 11:15, 18 July 2008 (EDT)

Main Page[edit]

Trent, I see you unlocked the main page. I did this as an anti-vandal measure as it is our face to the world. Although we don't normally lock pages it protects the layout of the page and I believe that there is no reason for anyone to need to edit it at all except in the case of a site makeover. After all, the component parts are still freely editable for everyone, it just means that a vandal would have to make several edits and even then the layout would not be compromised. Jollyfish.gifGenghisOur ignorance is God; what we know is science. 11:52, 18 July 2008 (EDT)

Oh I understand the reasoning behind it and I know that the reasoning makes sense, but any damage a vandal does lasts mere seconds here, and there is something to be said for the ephemeral quality of leaving our main page (the first page usually protected on any wiki) unprotected. I want to go find something real quick... I will be right back and finish this thought.... tmtoulouse beleaguer 11:58, 18 July 2008 (EDT)
Here is what I was looking for. That comment about the lack of our unprotected main page made me happy, it is my rebellion against standard wiki protocol damn it! That said, I am willing to give over to the zeitgeist of the mob, but my understanding is previous discussions to protect the main page have not been received with much fan fare. tmtoulouse beleaguer 12:00, 18 July 2008 (EDT)

Aren't there productive things I am suppose to be doing here[edit]

Anyone want to start a list for me? tmtoulouse beleaguer 12:08, 18 July 2008 (EDT)

I forgot what it was. I'll try to remember... ħumanUser talk:Human 20:05, 18 July 2008 (EDT)
Sterile suggested a side-by-side for - why not get that started ;) ħumanUser talk:Human 20:06, 18 July 2008 (EDT)

Karajou and you[edit]

Hi Tmtoulouse! Why did Karagoon write letters to your university? What was his purpose? --JayJay4ever??? 19:48, 18 July 2008 (EDT)

Apparently it was sparked by his desire for his tax dollars not to support cyber terrorist. At some point I think it dawned on him that attending a school in Canada probably is not using his US tax dollars. Anyway, he wrote e-mails to my university president about misuse of school resources and terrorism and who knows what else. Then threatened me with mounties......yes mounties.......the upshot of the whole thing was several rounds of hearty laughter by myself, my lab mates and my supervisor. tmtoulouse beleaguer 21:45, 18 July 2008 (EDT)
Do you have those letters? WANT.-caius (spy) 22:29, 18 July 2008 (EDT)
Mounties??? I'm starting to think that, like Ken, he might not realize that he as some of teh ghey.-- Asclepius staff.png-PalMD --goat--the other white meat 23:25, 18 July 2008 (EDT)
No no no...he's playing on yours team, don't you go try putting him on mine's team. 01:09, 19 July 2008 (EDT) CЯacke®

Thanks for answering. ;) --JayJay4ever??? 14:34, 19 July 2008 (EDT)

Karajou once tried to send a letter to my schools administrators, he managed to get both my name and my school wrong. I think he also missed my age age as well, but I don't remember. - Icewedge (*bleet*) 15:43, 19 July 2008 (EDT)
Yeah, he pretty much misses everything, IIRC. --λινυσ() 18:42, 19 July 2008 (EDT)


Wasn't trying to mess with the voting, that was a typo on my part. Czolgolz 23:31, 18 July 2008 (EDT)

Oh no worries, didn't mean to sound accusatory, I hadn't actually made note of the fact that standardization was important yet and decided too. It doesn't hurt the voting but I have a wiki bot that automatically moves entries to best of after they reach a certain point and it uses that label to decide what to move. tmtoulouse beleaguer 23:34, 18 July 2008 (EDT)


Sorry, I think I effed up somewhere reverting teh wandalism...PFoster 00:14, 19 July 2008 (EDT)

That guy's definitely not Ken, he wouldn't never insult anybody without in one way or another promoting his own CP articles while doing so. NightFlareStill doesn't have a (nonstub) RWW article. 00:19, 19 July 2008 (EDT)
I know - but I figured I'd throw him a bone....make him feel wanted and loved...PFoster 00:26, 19 July 2008 (EDT)

I had a thought some days ago, while it didn't quite die of boredom I haven't let it out...until now.
My thought was "Ken Demyer" is a nom de plume a sort of Anti-Myers, so that Kenny's real last name is safely out of the public eye, as it were. But given that I wouldn't look for another "real name" (as I consider this to be stalking and intrusive of RealLife® stuff), I kept this to myself...until now. CЯacke® 01:14, 19 July 2008 (EDT)

Intersting theory. So, who came first, our Kendoll, or Mr. PZ? (wtf is blowing over my roof? wild winds? I'm here on a generator...) ħumanUser talk:Human 02:06, 19 July 2008 (EDT)

sragic ruoy dekoms evah I[edit]

<blink></blink> <blink></blink> ...kcis leef em edam yehT


You should improve the edit comment, since sometimes stubbot removes the stub template? (Which I think is very cool!) ħumanUser talk:Human 03:59, 19 July 2008 (EDT)

I noticed the link to the source code appears to be dead, is there anyway I could take a look? Credulous 01:01, 21 July 2008 (EDT)

Small problem...[edit]

I was blocked by Nightflame as a result of our little spat we had last midnight (the free banning swing and all). I recieved a block of 2.8somethingandother seconds, but the block did not expire in said period, instead persisting untill I took the time to unblock myself. Just a small problem you might want to look into. ĵ₳¥ášÇ♠ʘ duuudddeee...

Further info for this particular block length, as reconstructed by me:
21 July 2008
00:40 (cur; last) . . Sid (Talk | contribs | block) (unblocked User:Sid: "expires 10:53, 22 July 2008")
00:39 (cur; last) . . Sid (Talk | contribs | block) (blocked User:Sid with an expiry time of 2.7182818 seconds (autoblock disabled): Just to check how the wiki software handles it.)
Times as per my time zone - I assume the "expires" value (taken from the IP Block List) is also adjusted for my zone, but I'm not 100% certain. I'll leave it to the blocking pros to figure this one out. --Sid 18:44, 20 July 2008 (EDT)
It's the decimal. MediaWiki can't handle a decimal in a block time, and accordingly treats the number as "infinite". It happened to me once... Star of David.png Radioactive afikomen Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments. 16:13, 21 July 2008 (EDT)

Ripping off some javascript[edit]

Could you rip off the javascript for collapsible tables from and paste it in to rationalwiki's version please? I want to create a couple of templates for commenting on Schlafly history. Thanks! Update: I guess I should mention it needs the "hasClass" function too. -- 06:41, 22 July 2008 (EDT)

Thanks for doing this, but it also needs the hasClass function. If you could paste the following in above the collapsible tables stuff, that'd be great.

/* Test if an element has a certain class **************************************
 * Description: Uses regular expressions and caching for better performance.
 * Maintainers: [[User:Mike Dillon]], [[User:R. Koot]], [[User:SG]]
var hasClass = (function () {
    var reCache = {};
    return function (element, className) {
        return (reCache[className] ? reCache[className] : (reCache[className] = new RegExp("(?:\\s|^)" + className + "(?:\\s|$)"))).test(element.className);

-- 16:25, 27 July 2008 (EDT)

Prod, prod. -- 16:22, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

Arrows displaying wrong[edit]

I see them fine all the time, but I noticed after Susan complained that if you make the window narrower, it starts to happen. Crank it way down (like 600px?) and it happens a lot. I think it's because the table rows get tall enough to accommodate them that way? Just a tip if you want to look into it again. ħumanUser talk:Human 20:28, 22 July 2008 (EDT)

It maybe very difficult or impossible to fix. It is an interaction effect between the way Mediawiki displays articles and the way the extension does. The extension is a subclass of the overall class for displaying articles so it is dropped inside of code that's built way deep into MW. What is happening is that as you shrink the window size you are shrinking the "table" size for the article, MW is updating on the fly the table dimensions and adjusting the exstension table settings accordingly. Eventually you get to the point where the table width for the arrows is smaller than both images can fit and you wrap the line. I can't adjust the MW behavior because that would fuck things up site wide, and I am not sure there is a reasonable solution with out using something truly overboard like Javascript with in the extension. Before I spend time thinking about it I have to ask, how serious of a problem is it really? tmtoulouse beleaguer 20:33, 22 July 2008 (EDT)
It doesn't matter much at all. Is there a way to force the "TD" width to "X" pixels though, on your end? (ie ; also works in wikitable markup) Forced cell widths are pretty brutal about defending their territory. ħumanUser talk:Human 20:37, 22 July 2008 (EDT)
They are' set using something very similar to that (a css style sheet), but those settings can be overridden based on some other css style variables that are set by the MW software further up the chain. I might be able to reset them with in the extension to force a fixed width...but the results maybe...unexpected. I will see what happens. tmtoulouse beleaguer 20:42, 22 July 2008 (EDT)
No it didn't override the earlier CSS styles. You can see what is going, watch the article space carefully as you narrow the window. You can see that MW is forcing everything to rewrap and rearrange to fit in the new window shape no matter what. tmtoulouse beleaguer 20:45, 22 July 2008 (EDT)
PS this is all html based so no fancy coding to check it out, just view the source code of the page and you can see how I have set up the tables and how they are setup as tables with in tables from MW. If you, or anyone else, can come up with a better way of doing the HTML to keep that from happening its an easy enough fix. I am just worried the only way to escape the table within table thing is something nasty like JS. tmtoulouse beleaguer 20:52, 22 July 2008 (EDT)
I'll see if I can follow the nested table structure... ħumanUser talk:Human 21:03, 22 July 2008 (EDT)

I'm a gonna make a mess of your talk page ;) Here's the html...


1 Evolutionists fear being bad defeated. Not badly defeated; bad defeated. Andy's qualifications as a teacher shine through once again. Not badly defeated; bad defeated. Andy's qualifications as a teacher shine through once again. Not badly defeated; bad defeated. Andy's qualifications as a teacher shine through once again. Not badly defeated; bad defeated. Andy's qualifications as a teacher shine through once again.


12 Evolutionists fear being bad defeated. Not badly defeated; bad defeated. Andy's qualifications as a teacher shine through once again. Not badly defeated; bad defeated. Andy's qualifications as a teacher shine through once again. Not badly defeated; bad defeated. Andy's qualifications as a teacher shine through once again. Not badly defeated; bad defeated. Andy's qualifications as a teacher shine through once again.


125 Evolutionists fear being bad defeated. Not badly defeated; bad defeated. Andy's qualifications as a teacher shine through once again. Not badly defeated; bad defeated. Andy's qualifications as a teacher shine through once again. Not badly defeated; bad defeated. Andy's qualifications as a teacher shine through once again. Not badly defeated; bad defeated. Andy's qualifications as a teacher shine through once again.

This works fine down to a width where the words are getting chopped up, although I may have left some "outer" code off? (I don't think so?)

Get rid of:

<col style="width: 35px" /> <col style="width: 15px" /> <col style="width: 1000px" />

and just force the first TD to width=35. Try it, anyway. You don't need to set td width on the other two, although, yes, the second one should be for a neat set of columns, like I went back and did above. Also add width=100% to the "table" tag. ħumanUser talk:Human 21:27, 22 July 2008 (EDT)

Bloody hell, okay I will see what I can do...but I haz been drinking...coding while drunk is...risky. tmtoulouse beleaguer 22:09, 22 July 2008 (EDT)
I made the change and I didn't even break the wiki! Go me! But uh now there is a giant fucking space.... tmtoulouse beleaguer 22:18, 22 July 2008 (EDT)
fixed! go me. tmtoulouse beleaguer 22:23, 22 July 2008 (EDT)
Sweet! I noticed you saw something I did, which was the CP template caused for first 2 or 3 to screw up first. We kan haz syt codid bai drunkz - new slogan? Nah... Nice work though. PS, 'witdh="15"' might phail eventually ;) ħumanUser talk:Human 22:54, 22 July 2008 (EDT)

Still to fix[edit]

witdh="15" in the second cell of each row... ħumanUser talk:Human 21:20, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

Picky, picky. tmtoulouse beleaguer 21:31, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

As to drunk coding.... you just haven't found the Ballmer Peak. As with all XKCD, make sure you read the alt text. --Shagie 20:07, 24 July 2008 (EDT)

Nice! And, as it says, maintaining that critical BAC is difficult. ħumanUser talk:Human 20:28, 24 July 2008 (EDT)


I gave a you a couple of "fun things", too. <blink></blink> <blink></blink> 12:51, 23 July 2008 (EDT)


Have you ever paid any attention to the ads on our left sidebar? When I brought up the main page a while ago, both of the ads there led to creationist books. Are we ok with that? Is there anything we can do about it? OneForLogic 13:07, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

The ads arrive there by "magnetic" words that are entered on each page. We have no say on who chooses these magnetic words but they pay for the privilege. So there is something you can do. You can click on the link and open it in a new window. This takes money from the advertiser and transfers it to RationalWiki (after Mr. Google takes his cut) and thereby pays for our running costs. However, please don't make multiple clicks as this may be inferred as abuse. If everyone clicked just one add a day to see what they were about then this would provide a good revenue stream which can be invested in putting our own ads on other people's pages. Now some of these ads may actually be for stuff you are interested in while others might appear to run counter to RationalWiki's mission. The latter group can actually be a useful resource for finding crank stuff on the web which can be used to build up our articles. I am currently working on an astrology scam that is often featured on our pages. Jollyfish.gifGenghisOur ignorance is God; what we know is science. 13:59, 23 July 2008 (EDT)
Things like your IP's location, browser type and settings, operating system, etc. also influence which adverts you get to see. For instance, I get lots of ads in Danish - I doubt the rest of you do. ;-) --AKjeldsenCum dissensie 20:33, 24 July 2008 (EDT)
I don't get any - although, since I in 'Murka, I get quite a few written in "stoopid". (not true, I have them rurned off...) ħumanUser talk:Human 20:41, 24 July 2008 (EDT)

Thank You for the Correction[edit]

As you have noticed, I am very prudent in reading every available notice regarding an article except for anything written in the article itself. Thank you for catching me on that. Sam Bailey 20:07, 24 July 2008 (EDT)


One more reason to go live as soon as possible, I guess. Give them something to play with, and they'll run with it. Good for the mob, I guess. Perhaps they don't keep track of talk:main? Or our seventy-odd edits in the last 48 hours...? ħumanUser talk:Human 01:28, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

Sorry I didn't see the little writing at the top. I thought we could bring the all together, but they are easy enough to navigate around with the link on every page. 01:36, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
No big deal - what you did was perfectly natural. Just ahead of he curve, is all ;) ħumanUser talk:Human 01:44, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

External links[edit]

Hi Tmtoulouse. If you use the the div class plainlinks will this mean that the external links are still no follow? It is just I don't want to SEO stormfront and metawiki. 01:52, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

I'm sure that's fine, but, yes, let's wait for Trent to answer. ħumanUser talk:Human 02:33, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
Human is everything in the MediaWiki namespace automatically protected, as I can't see a lock option? 02:45, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
We have set all ELs to "nofollow" (as far as I can recall). I don't think it matters whether they are plainlinked or not. Anyway, hang on, and let Trent answer this for you clearly. ħumanUser talk:Human 03:00, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
Plain links doesn't break anything the only style issues I would avoid diving the whole page with are table changes. tmtoulouse beleaguer 10:46, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

I didn't mean...[edit]

to steal your thunder, or upstage you. I realize all I did was push you and add text edits... you did the programming and made it all work (amazingly rapidly, too). I hope you understand that when I say "we" did it, all I meant was that I was part of the team. You did most/all of the heavy hauling... ħumanUser talk:Human 03:33, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

I didn't even think about it no worries there. Thunder is nothing I am concerned with, and you did plenty of the work. All the things you did as far as layout and ideas are things that I don't like to do and am not good at. The programming is the easy stuff, that's when collaboration works best when both people can say "I just did this, you were the one that did the hard part". Anyway, no worries and thanks. tmtoulouse beleaguer 10:49, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

Article of the weak[edit]

Trent, I made a template {{rwia}} for navigation of the interactive articles. Can you change AotW to include it rather than raw markup. That way if anything needs to be changed it only needs to be done once. Jollyfish.gifGenghisOur ignorance is God; what we know is science. 07:34, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

Yes, yes I can. As soon as I get my first shot of caffeine in me, god have mercy on RW if I start coding before coffee. tmtoulouse beleaguer 10:51, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
GK, while I agree we needed that, why didn't you stick with the "naming scheme" of the other 3 templates (AOTW xxx)? I hope you don't mind if I rename it...? ħumanUser talk:Human 15:37, 27 July 2008 (EDT)
Trent, I moved "rwia" to "AOTW Navigation" so the naming convention is followed. Since it is transcluded in AOTW via the extension "<article>" you made, can you change it there and then delete the old template? Thanks... ħumanUser talk:Human 20:19, 27 July 2008 (EDT)

Much better[edit]

~ Gloom(is never asleep) 17:37, 26 July 2008 (EDT)

I agree. The other two edits combined were funny, but I like the level-headedness of the new version. --Arcan ¡ollǝɥ 17:40, 26 July 2008 (EDT)

Thank You[edit]

Goes to show vandals are honest at least--Damo2353 17:51, 26 July 2008 (EDT)

The best kind, I always appreciate user names that start with "Hi, my name is <fill in blank>, and I am here to vandalize." tmtoulouse beleaguer 17:52, 26 July 2008 (EDT)


Please stop vandalising Rationalwiki. The next time you do so your account may be blocked. Thank you. Bohdan2 00:32, 27 July 2008 (EDT)

That was weird.[edit]

Glad you warned us about that... US-O11 insignia.svg Gen. S.T. Shrink Is this lulz inducing? 00:35, 27 July 2008 (EDT)

Fixing it, I hope, its a transclusion thing. tmtoulouse beleaguer 00:36, 27 July 2008 (EDT)
Fixed, I hope. tmtoulouse beleaguer 00:58, 27 July 2008 (EDT)

AOTW on main page[edit]

Is there a way you can get each of those examples to display alongside their vote icons (with the score)? Also, the examples are replaced with a brief outline of the respective WIGO a lot of the time -- is that deliberate? ~ Gloom(is never asleep) 04:49, 27 July 2008 (EDT)

To answer your second question, yes. ħumanUser talk:Human 15:37, 27 July 2008 (EDT)

Programmer Andy[edit]

Have you seen that - randomly chopping out extensions to speed up CP? SusanG  ContribsTalk 13:53, 27 July 2008 (EDT)

No, explain? tmtoulouse beleaguer 13:53, 27 July 2008 (EDT)
Look at the WIGO link. Or Just his "Talk" under "New User" SusanG  ContribsTalk 13:56, 27 July 2008 (EDT)
He,he. References now show up just as <references/>. Jollyfish.gifGenghisOur ignorance is God; what we know is science. 14:00, 27 July 2008 (EDT)
Ah, yes, I see that now. The problem isn't an extension, nor the server per say. The problem is in the database. Cached DB queries serve up perfectly fine, it is when the software has to do a new query it screws up. This is not a mediawiki nor extension problem, it is also not really a hosting problem. The first step is to optimize the database. The easiest way to do this is the ssh onto the server then:
  • type mysql
  • when you get the mysql prompt type:
  • use <the database name>
  • then type:
  • show tables;
  • this will give you a list of all the tables on the database you need to do this for each table:
  • optimize table <table name>;

do that for EACH table, that should help a lot. It will slow things down a bit while you do it though. More hints once they try this, or if they try it. tmtoulouse beleaguer 14:02, 27 July 2008 (EDT)

To help make it easier I often use a sql script, I have copied the script to here. Just replace your database name in and then the prefix for CP which is probably CP. You can then just load this on the server then run the script, usually if you have a ssh prompt it is: "mysql < opt.sql". If you don't use ssh you can use phpmyadmin from the cpanel to run the script too. tmtoulouse beleaguer 14:18, 27 July 2008 (EDT)
Is Andy on the big red telephone then? Jollyfish.gifGenghisOur ignorance is God; what we know is science. 14:21, 27 July 2008 (EDT)

On a different subject (your evo screendumpen): If you're using firefox, TMT, there's an addon that lets you "screenshot" the whole page, even what's off your screen. I'll have a root round - there's more than one. SusanG  ContribsTalk 14:33, 27 July 2008 (EDT)

Try these: Screengrab! & Fireshot SusanG  ContribsTalk 14:41, 27 July 2008 (EDT)


I do not recognize anything past 21 as the official Fibonacci sequence. Remember for future reference. --US-O11 insignia.svg Gen. S.T. Shrink Is this lulz inducing? 01:37, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

I think it's time to change all our default blocks to e instead of pee! ħumanUser talk:Human 01:42, 28 July 2008 (EDT)
But anyway, you see what I mean about "best of"ing our block log? ħumanUser talk:Human 01:44, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

Vandal brake[edit]

Trent, the vandal brake only works for registered users and not IPs. Is the unregistered user limiter the same as the vandal brake? Jollyfish.gifGenghisOur ignorance is God; what we know is science. 12:49, 29 July 2008 (EDT)

Er, can you say that again differently? tmtoulouse beleaguer 15:08, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
I can't move an IP into the vandal group as it requires a user name. So is there an edit-rate limiter for unregistered users? And if so, how goes it differ from the vandal brake limit? Jollyfish.gifGenghisOur ignorance is God; what we know is science. 09:13, 30 July 2008 (EDT)
Really needed, I thought IPs were rate limited anyhow but it appears they're not. How about Limiting them by default but allowing them to be paroled on request? SusanG  ContribsTalk 11:25, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

Feature/extension request[edit]

I see that on both CP and WP, when you follow a footnote, the corresponding note is highlighted. It's an awesome feature, can we do that using our "references/" tag? ħumanUser talk:Human 20:12, 29 July 2008 (EDT)

Doesn't appear to be part of any given extension, probably a change in the new version of Mediawiki, unless you can hunt down the extension that does it? tmtoulouse beleaguer 20:26, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
How would I figure out what the extension might be? Google? (PS, it works not only on the "reflist" template but for just plain "references/" tag also). ħumanUser talk:Human 21:50, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
Just like to point out that this feature is not present in IE. It works in FF2 but I haven't tried Safari yet. Jollyfish.gifGenghisOur ignorance is God; what we know is science. 11:15, 30 July 2008 (EDT)
I'm seeing it in FF3, but not here as far as I have noticed. I'd better check again ;)

[1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6]

  1. a footnote
  2. a footnote 2
  3. a footnote R
  4. a footnote G
  5. a footnote 7
  6. a handnote
Nope, doesn't work here. ħumanUser talk:Human 16:43, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

Excuse me.[edit]

I didn't want sysop here. I meant there. Please desysop me. --Enghorn 21:35, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

Meh, too much work, there are several other crates that might care more. tmtoulouse beleaguer 21:36, 30 July 2008 (EDT)
Eh, sysopship here is not that big of a deal. You don't have to do anything if you don't want to. Feel free to ignore it... ħumanUser talk:Human 23:05, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

Annoying, isn't it?[edit]

~ Gloom(is never asleep) 23:40, 1 August 2008 (EDT)

That is why I did it. tmtoulouse beleaguer 23:41, 1 August 2008 (EDT)
You might want to look at what your pet appears to have done once upon a time: ħumanUser talk:Human 19:49, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

When you're done replacing the batteries in your toybot, see what you think of this front page mockup. ħumanUser talk:Human 03:38, 3 August 2008 (EDT)

Is there a way to make the boxes expand with white space so that the two columns stay aligned like they currently do on the front page? tmtoulouse beleaguer 20:18, 3 August 2008 (EDT)
Do you mean making their "bottom edges" line up horizontally (cause that's all can think that you mean)? ħumanUser talk:Human 20:44, 3 August 2008 (EDT)
Yea I think that is what I mean, so that when there is a lot of text in the WIGO box the left hand box fills in white space to match. tmtoulouse beleaguer 20:46, 3 August 2008 (EDT)
Does it have to be all those odd colours? Why not just two? ~ Gloom(is never asleep) 20:50, 3 August 2008 (EDT)
That's what I thought, Trent. Not the way it is set up now, no. Each side is its own table inside two 50% wide cells in another table. I might be able to try an idea I was thinking of last night, which is a bit of a kludge, where each side has two cells, and one of each is "rowspan=2". So there are three rows in the table, but one is phantom on each side. I think I've done it before. Purple, green and orange are "odd", chaos? Because, that's why ;) ħumanUser talk:Human 20:54, 3 August 2008 (EDT)
OK, Trent, I done did it. If one of the "shorter" sections (about RW; participate in RW) gets taller it might gimp it up a bit, but otherwise we are cool. ħumanUser talk:Human 21:28, 3 August 2008 (EDT)

Nice try, Censorship Man...[edit]

If you look closely, you'll see that it says "allegedly". Therefore, nothing in the page can be untrue, as such. Besides, it is well known that the Alps are gay. ~ Gloom(is never asleep) 21:46, 3 August 2008 (EDT)


When on the Create Article page , there's a bit of text that goes (and I paste): If you are here by mistake, just click your browser's back button, unless you like staring at blank edit screeens. (made up example here) Please could you do something about the extra letter e. Totnesmartin 16:11, 4 August 2008 (EDT)