User talk:Tmtoulouse/Archive9

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This is an archive page, last updated 21 January 2021. Please do not make edits to this page.
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I guess certain characters didn't parse well. tmtoulouse torment 01:09, 11 September 2007 (MDT)

A minor issue, considering. Nothing we can't fix on the fly. I take it we shouldn't risk "permanent" edits yet? humanbe in 01:19, 11 September 2007 (MDT)
Fantastic night's work Tmtoulouse.--Bobbing up and down 06:06, 11 September 2007 (MDT)

Twas most frustrating watching everyone on the forum, (I got no valid e-mail addres) I went to bed about 6.00 (gmt) - just before the genius of Tmt (all hail) got us here. SJGsjg 07:21, 11 September 2007 (MDT)

Yeah, you rocked Toulouse. Like Susan, I hadn't registered, and the server would n't send out the registration confirmation email, so I couldn't join. But you pulled your finger out in a major way to get a new account and a hosting move together in about 36 hours. And yes, I think your previous hoster was just trying to rip you off. Best of luck mate, DogP 20:29, 11 September 2007 (MDT)

Site administration[edit]

If a certain Trent that I know of would give me the site password, I might be able to be useful :). --Linus(plot evil tech) 16:53, 13 September 2007 (MDT)

Locked outta forums[edit]

he'p me! CЯacke® 18:01, 13 September 2007 (MDT)

In what way are you locked out? tmtoulouse torment 18:14, 13 September 2007 (MDT)
I put in my username and PW but it doesn't accept the PW. CЯacke®
can you e-mail me? tmtoulouse torment 18:22, 13 September 2007 (MDT)
Pehaps you can report the series of urls you get, step by step? humanbe in 18:27, 13 September 2007 (MDT)
Hey, guessy what? As of my messin' around 'bout 9 PM EST, " could not be found". But I still had the IP around so I worked from that. Just a heads up. humanbe in 19:11, 14 September 2007 (MDT)
Damn you must live right next to a primary DNS server. I am in a balancing act at the moment. Hopefully people will remember the IP address for a tonight....before I goto bed I will flip the switch and then everything will be kosher again for the forseeable future. 19:18, 14 September 2007 (MDT)

Headers for special pages[edit]

We now have this:


To appear above recent changes and alert people, give them handy links, etc. And I'm gonna add more, all the links I saved & use all the time.

I want to get it to be at the top of watchlist as well, since I use that as my anchor on RW. This:


Doesn't work. Can it be made to? Guess I'll know you made it work if it magically turns up when I reload my watchlist... humanbe in 14:01, 14 September 2007 (MDT)

Ah, nevermind, Sid found it at MediaWiki:Wlheader-showupdated. Also, the reflist|2 template doesn't look like it's working correctly at conservapedia. Any ideas? humanbe in 14:32, 14 September 2007 (MDT)

Firefox and Explorer[edit]

I've been clicking through random pages with these two open side by side and can't see anomalies.--Bob's your uncle 14:05, 15 September 2007 (EDT)

The problem at this point is selective 404 errors, the patterns are very strange and mean nothing to me....and they are changing with the moment the change seems to be towards more and more things working, so I am hoping it will work itself out...but hope buys nothing.......... 14:06, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
Try this, try removing the "www" in both broswers, and tell me what happens, thanks. 14:09, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
Took out WWW. on both browsers in mainpage and both came back to WWW. Took out http://www. on both browsers and both came back as well.--Bob's your uncle 14:17, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
What are the chances the glitches are only on my end...that would be very nice... 14:18, 15 September 2007 (EDT)

(edit conflict)I was getting 404's like this: The requested URL /wiki/Special:Search was not found on this server. and The requested URL /wiki/index.php was not found on this server. When the server was down firefox took me to some sort of "Boilerplate" wiki with no data but some reference to RW. Don't know if that helps.--Bob's your uncle 14:23, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
Basically you were getting glimpses of my franctic attempts to fix things. 14:25, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
Mozilla (last build b4 firefox release) works fine on the wiki, not running into any errors. humanbe in 15:24, 15 September 2007 (EDT)

Forum Alert[edit]

Clicking on the "Forums" takes one to a configuration page "Welcome to phpBB 2 Installation", you might want that NOT to happen. CЯacke® 15:16, 15 September 2007 (EDT) Okay, stage 2....what happens when you click on the forums link? 14:20, 15 September 2007 (EDT)

Dead. Just the words "tick tock".--Bob's your uncle 14:24, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
Tick tock appears? really? excellent...and strange. 14:25, 15 September 2007 (EDT)

Anyone else out there who can try some of this? The more data I get the better we will be! Data rules! 14:31, 15 September 2007 (EDT)

Just tried the same tests again logged on and logged off. No difference. Had a glitch for a couple of seconds logging back in.--Bob's your uncle 14:44, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
Glitch in what way? 14:45, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
dam cant' remember now. "Service temporarily unavailable" I think. It only came up once.--Bob's your uncle 14:47, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
But I've just logged in and out 10 times of firefox without problems.--Bob's your uncle 14:49, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
Yep forum now has: Welcome to phpBB 2 Installation--Bob's your uncle 15:20, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
I get the install screen at the forum link, too. humanbe in 15:24, 15 September 2007 (EDT)

Forums should be working now, yes? tmtoulouse torment 16:08, 15 September 2007 (EDT)

Yes, except we still have that problem with the missing style config files. --AKjeldsenGodspeed! 16:15, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
Seems to be there. Ya changed the address though. PS, I love the new "button names" you made last week! humanbe in 16:17, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
Forums work for me.--Bob[[User_Talk:Bob_M|'s your uncle
I still cain't login.CЯacke® 16:19, 15 September 2007 (EDT)

Style sheets[edit]

Are style sheets working now? And cracker, I will start trying to figure out what happened to you now. tmtoulouse torment 16:22, 15 September 2007 (EDT)

TY. It's telling me now that I exceeeded my login attempts and have to sit in the corner for fifteen minutes.CЯacke®
don't log in again till I send you an e-mail or we will be bumping into each other. tmtoulouse torment 16:37, 15 September 2007 (EDT)

Otay.CЯacke® 16:41, 15 September 2007 (EDT)


Error code 0 ACDbot 15:30, 16 September 2007 (EDT)

Hahaha. I thought you were searching for [[AC.D:, not just AC.D: ? Dot inserted to protect from overzealous botification... Surely the list of just "AC.D:" could have been generated to be checked manually for the few artiles that actually needed to be changed? Oh well, too late now... humanbe in 15:44, 16 September 2007 (EDT)
Eh no big deal, its done now. tmtoulouse torment 15:48, 16 September 2007 (EDT)

Is "Error code 0" the one for "kill all humans"?-αmεσ (!) 15:46, 16 September 2007 (EDT)

Just the proto-lawyers tmtoulouse torment 15:49, 16 September 2007 (EDT)

Well, shit.-αmεσ (!) 15:56, 16 September 2007 (EDT)

Bot Army[edit]

Soon you will have an army to challenge Bohdan should he return with his clones.--Bob's your uncle 14:25, 17 September 2007 (EDT)

The clones always beat the droids though. Damn Jedi. tmtoulouse torment 14:26, 17 September 2007 (EDT)

While you're in inventabot mode. Is there anyway an index could be created for e.g. WIGO and similar long multi-sectioned documents - there doesn't appear to be an inbuilt wikitext method but could a way of putting an invisible something in (before, after?) a word to make it indexable so that a tmt designed bot could pick it up? Like search, I suppose, but so the results were appended to the document. It'd mean going through existing articles & adding something to interesting words but so what . SJGsjg 17:01, 17 September 2007 (EDT)

Hmm, I am not sure I follow completely, what exactly do you mean by index? tmtoulouse torment 18:52, 17 September 2007 (EDT)

Key words in sections of the article marked somehow {?} inside (immediately before/after/around). Words so marked pulled out by bot & listed at the end with jumps to incidences of the word. Sorta like a <ref> marker/link. Don't blow any gaskets - just an idle thought. SJGsjg 19:05, 17 September 2007 (EDT)

maybe there is a "special" link that searches for a text string, then any key word or string could be set up as a link? Like, "search for: TK, Karajou, Deceit, banhammer, (etc.)" with all those keywords having a "find in this page" link? Not automatic, but a little small text box at the top would be easy to copy to the archives, etc. Eh, probably wouldn't work... humanbe in 19:14, 17 September 2007 (EDT)
No no no, this can't be happening, you released it....... Locke User is Vandal/sysop Always Watching...... 18:54, 19 September 2007 (EDT)
He has been re-educated with the three rules. tmtoulouse torment 18:55, 19 September 2007 (EDT)


Sir Botness, we are mightily impressed. I have a forum question - can you reset my login? I attempted to register during last weeks server overage crisis, and I think my account has come a cropper, but the username is there and I can neither login nor re-register. I registered under 'DogP' but cannot now login. Email me abou this is if it's easier. DogP 17:59, 17 September 2007 (EDT)

Try to see if you can log in now, DP. --AKjeldsenGodspeed! 18:10, 17 September 2007 (EDT)
Let me know of AKjeldsen has it worked out. tmtoulouse torment 18:53, 17 September 2007 (EDT), it appears it's still not working. I've emailed Linus who wrote me about it. I think because I never got the reg. email, my account is created but of course I don't know the assigned password, so uhhhh.... DogP 19:05, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

I've set your password to be the same as your username. Try logging in with that, then setting a new password from the profile and see if it works. --AKjeldsenGodspeed! 19:20, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

Excellent, thanks so much AK. That worked out fine, and I'm now in and able to use the forums. Thanks to all for your help. DogP 19:33, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

I live to serve. :nods: --AKjeldsenGodspeed! 19:35, 19 September 2007 (EDT)


What are you using as the stub/VSA critieria? humanbe in 18:41, 17 September 2007 (EDT)

Byte count: <=300 - VSA, 300-1200 stub >1200 nada; tmtoulouse torment 18:42, 17 September 2007 (EDT)

anti-vandal measure[edit]

As far as I know, we haven't had many vandals recently. However, in all likelihood, we will get more. I noticed that many auto-vandals use the
<a_href> tag. If it starts up again, could we block the phrase "<a_href>", as it's competely useless for wiki editing? I can't think of any reason why we'd need it, or why someone couldn't just type in <a_href> if they really had to use it. It's just a thought. ThunderkatzHo! 19:26, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

I noticed those mostly from spam bots, I have installed a CAPTCHA to try and stop the bots, but if looks like its being used for vandals or whatever I can look into you have an example of it from vandalism? tmtoulouse torment 19:40, 19 September 2007 (EDT)
Susan has the copy of what the IP bots all posted here. I'm not sure if human vandals ever use the tag. ThunderkatzHo! 21:05, 19 September 2007 (EDT)
Classic spam, since mediawiki puts no follows on EL I think they are hoping it will fool the google bot into seeing it as links. tmtoulouse torment 21:07, 19 September 2007 (EDT)
I think its bot, but lets just wait and see how my machinations work out. tmtoulouse torment 21:07, 19 September 2007 (EDT)
One last thing, the reason I am reluctant is that html code is useful in a few things that I do, but not necessary just convenient. tmtoulouse torment 21:08, 19 September 2007 (EDT)
Ohhhhh. Not being privy to the inner workings of a wiki (and by not thinking), I didn't realize that you could/did use HTML. Anyway, we don't really need it right now; it was just an idea in case they came back stronger.ThunderkatzHo! 21:13, 19 September 2007 (EDT)
Its usable in forms and some dynamic content, no one else really uses the forms for anything on here but me, that I know of. tmtoulouse torment 21:16, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

Please don't mind[edit] obsessive-compulsive fixing of the grammar and links in your post. It's late and I have an insatiable need to edit wikis mindlessly... Feebas factor 02:26, 22 September 2007 (EDT)


Is is possible to do a one-time donation instead of the monthly withdraw? VirileSterileblah, blah, blah 15:48, 24 September 2007 (EDT)

Sure, perhaps I need to make it clearer, but the button under the "pledges" that just says "make a donation" allows for one time donations. tmtoulouse torment 15:52, 24 September 2007 (EDT)


I know that you know what I know.....I am so on to you. NirKahz Europa 21:32, 24 September 2007 (EDT)

You what that I think what you are so off from me. humanbe in 22:07, 24 September 2007 (EDT)

Law Professors[edit]

Law professors also have silly ideas like that... 100 pages is a one-day assignment. And then, they'll ask you about cases that took up two lines of said pages.-αmεσ (spy) 19:54, 25 September 2007 (EDT)

re. IP blocks[edit]

OK - Put it down to ignorance. Susantalk to me 13:08, 26 September 2007 (EDT)

Not a problem, I appreciate the work at blocking them, and what you did was standard wiki policy. I think we just have a slightly different approach here since we respect the use of "proxies" we should preserve them for use by whoever wants to. tmtoulouse torment 13:11, 26 September 2007 (EDT)
This question falls into the "Questions you are afraid to ask in case you look stoopid" category. But what exactly is the difference between these two options?--Bob's your uncle 13:20, 26 September 2007 (EDT)
The first option if checked will only block anonymous editing from that IP address. Anyone using a registered account attached to that IP address will not be blocked. If it is unchecked then any users attached to that IP address will be blocked. The second option if checked will prevent anyone from that IP address from creating an account, if unchecked users can still create accounts from that IP. So if you leave the first one checked and the second one unchecked blocking the IP only prevents it from making anonymous edits. tmtoulouse torment 13:24, 26 September 2007 (EDT)
I'd just got: Forces a log in! Susantalk to me 13:27, 26 September 2007 (EDT)
OK - cool. Thanks.--Bob's your uncle 13:42, 26 September 2007 (EDT)

BAN ME!!!!!

tech question[edit]

Susan's been trying to automate the help page index, and although something like what you did for the featured content would work, it won't do a couple fo things that would be cool - one, overriding the "subpage" slash things, and allowing a brief description to be pulled form the article itself. Any thought on how to do these? Especially the latter... I roughed up a sandbox version at User:Human/sandbox. I'm not sure how close to success she got, or if it was a blind alley. humanbe in 22:39, 28 September 2007 (EDT)

I am not sure I follow totally, where are we at with this and what needs to be done? My brain is nearly burned completely out, spoon feed it to me. tmtoulouse torment 11:23, 29 September 2007 (EDT)

See my talk & User:SusanG/play Susantalk to me 13:20, 29 September 2007 (EDT)

Category help[edit]

Recently, I deleted the category of suicides (Vince Foster was the only member and I removed the cat). Just out of curiosity, I checked the wanted pages list, and there were two links to the category itself. I deleted one link, but the second link is to a subpage of Human. The subpage is an automatic list of things he's created and I'm guessing he wrote the text for the suicides page; however, the actual page does not link to the cat anywhere. So now there's Category:Suicides in the wanted pages saying that Human's subpage links to it, even though it doesn't. Could you help? Thanks. ThunderkatzHo! 00:09, 7 October 2007 (EDT)

Go ahead and change the archive. humanbe in 00:11, 7 October 2007 (EDT)
How? Your list is automatic, so I have no idea what to change. Looking at the page itself, there's no redlink to category:suicides, but category:suicides says your page links to it. ThunderkatzHo! 00:15, 7 October 2007 (EDT)
Done. humanbe in 00:18, 7 October 2007 (EDT)
That works, but now people can't see all the wonderful categories you created. And did you forget your password or something? ThunderkatzHo! 00:20, 7 October 2007 (EDT)
I am at a friends house listening to some music and using his computer. I created a new account for tonight only. humanbe in 00:23, 7 October 2007 (EDT)
The links above to me ain't me. Very unfunny, or funny? Eh, I blocked the instigator... Oh, and ThK, hmm, not sure how to fix that problem. Ignore it? Add more suicides? humanbe in 06:01, 7 October 2007 (EDT) (the real me)

Math help[edit]

Any math guys or those that want to try think they can help me out with something? I am looking for a continuous function where f(x)=0 for x=0 and

Any ideas? Thanks! tmtoulouse torment 17:40, 7 October 2007 (EDT)

Err, never mind I am an idiot, I have been making things way to difficult for my self this weekend. tmtoulouse torment 17:53, 7 October 2007 (EDT)
Hmm, it only took you 13 minutes! Not bad... humanbe in 18:47, 7 October 2007 (EDT)
I am playing with f(x) = 1 + 1/(x-1), which gets it bass-ackwards - it looks like from x = 0 to minus inf, it is continous with f(x) going from zero to 1. But then again, my pen keeps bending in the middle. humanbe in 18:51, 7 October 2007 (EDT)
Yea any arbitrary function for f(x)=x/(x + y) for y=anything really will do what I want. Since I want everything weighted by x I think I will use f(x)=x/(x + (1/x)) its a nice little curve that pretty much does what I want, with f(x) increasing most rapidly in the "middle" of the function. tmtoulouse torment 18:55, 7 October 2007 (EDT)
You could try , if you want something that's defined for all x. Bayesupdate 18:59, 7 October 2007 (EDT)
Is there a way to tune how fast it approaches 1? tmtoulouse torment 19:18, 7 October 2007 (EDT)
I think , where the value of a determines how fast you want to go to 1, would work.--Bayesupdate 19:50, 7 October 2007 (EDT)

Yeah, so "flipping" that to f(x) = 1 - 1/(x+1) "works" - it's not really continuous, but works from zero to infinity (discontinuous at x = -1). There's probably a trig function that could be beaten into this constraint, too. By the way, this function, I think, could use any power of "x" >= 1 and still work. So it's a whole fambly! humanbe in 18:57, 7 October 2007 (EDT)
Yes, if I decide to really get fancy with it I could include an extra parameter in the function that could be set to tune the curve.....but I have too many free parameters in the full model as is. tmtoulouse torment 19:01, 7 October 2007 (EDT)
What are you modelling, by the way? humanbe in 19:03, 7 October 2007 (EDT)
I building a model for how I think the brain processes consequences to make action choices, a wp:reinforcement learning problem basically. My model works using something similar to Bayesian inference but I need to weight the likilihood functions such that as a particular neuron fires faster and faster it moves from thinking a given stimulus is behaving as expected to thinking its behaving at random. So the liklihood function can be anything from a normal distribution with mean of the expected result to a uniform distribution for any possible result. How close it is to the normal distribution or the uniform distribution is based on this firing rate, hence the need for a function thats "1" at x=0 (when no increase in firing rate it uses only the normal distribution) to x=1 (at the maximum firing rate it uses a totally uniform distribution). tmtoulouse torment 19:18, 7 October 2007 (EDT)

So I think it should look something like this then:

Oh, ok, I see what you're getting at. Out of curiosity, is your model complicated enough that you use Monte Carlo methods to evaluate the likelihood?--Bayesupdate 19:59, 7 October 2007 (EDT)
Nah, I am not doing any model selection with this particular model. This is just parameter estimation, with the neurons trying to figure out what the mean and standard deviation of a reward is given a particular action. So the hypotheses are that the reward can be between -1 and 1 with sigma between 0 and 1. Then its just a matter of how fine a gradient I want between my hypotheses.
Now for other problems things can get really interesting. For example if we are dealing with visual stimuli, lets say to decide if we are seeing is a single vertical bar moving across the visual spectrum, two bars moving in the same direction, or two bars moving in opposite direction. You can use a form of parameter estimation for neurons that are "tuned" to particular motion frequencies, these work under the assumption there is one moving bar and if its really two you just get bimodal PDFS. You then have to user higher order neurons that get the distributions as input that have to do the "model selection" to decide which model best fits all the various distributions. In this case with three options you can of course solve it directly. But when you really start getting into the "real world" with all kinds of stimuli moving in all kinds of directions with all kinds of velocities and accelerations and all that you wind up with an intractable problem......under those conditions you would normally use some sort of Monte Carlo method. Now we have some pretty good ideas about how neurons firing rates can be used in Bayesian inference to do parameter estimation, and some idea how to do direct model selection.....but as far as I know there is no one out there that has figured out how neurons might do some sort of random walk type calculation for large scale model selection. tmtoulouse torment 20:21, 7 October 2007 (EDT)
Cool. Yeah, I can imagine how it'd be really tough to do model selection with complicated real-life scenarios. I'm trying to do it with 6-dimensional parameter spaces, and that's rigorous enough, even with MCMC! At least with the cpu resources I have access to at the moment.--Bayesupdate 20:45, 7 October 2007 (EDT)
The thing that makes it such a pain in the ass too with what I am doing is that you can't do it computational efficient ways. There is all sorts of beautiful algorithmic short cuts out there, but since I am trying to link this to neuron firing patterns I am stuck trying to represent the parameter space with a frigging recurrent network......but if evolution can do it I can do it.....errrr....something like that at least. tmtoulouse torment 21:53, 7 October 2007 (EDT)

darn it. after reading this I feel so... inadequate. I can't even remember if I took my vitamin this morning, and here you guys are doing this kind of stuff. just, darn it. Refugeetalk page

Ha! Join the club. Susantalk to me 21:20, 7 October 2007 (EDT)
Oh, I can't remember whether I ate dinner or not...or what day of the week it your better off than me in many respects. The equation looks worse than it is really. This whole mess: is the standard form to get back the probability of the value your going to get sampling from a normal curve. Basically if I had a bell curve with a mean of say 1 and a standard deviation of 1/2 and I wanted to ask what are the chances that I would get the value 1.75 if I randomly sampled the curve you would use that equation. The last part is just a uniform probability saying any value from 0 to the maximum value of X I can get is equally likely. I am trying to "weight" the overall probability by a particular value such that when its 0 the overall probability is totally based on the normal curve, and as that value increases the overall probability approaches that of the totally flat uniform probability. The wieght of is discussed above which is what I was trying to find. I know this isn't the clearest explanation but I am burnt :). tmtoulouse torment 21:53, 7 October 2007 (EDT)
Basically, all those symbols are a way to tell the difference between a flat horizon and a mountain. People like us just like to find crazy ways to do that :-) You know, the important things in life. Dinner? What dinner?--Bayesupdate 21:58, 7 October 2007 (EDT)

stubbot 2[edit]

Do you still run this bot from time to time? Because if you do (or might), I'd like a way to "block" its actions. We have short articles that are fairly complete (simple subjects), or just don't really need more. But then stubbot adds the 'stub' template, along with its two cats to them, making them look sloppy. (IE, some of the logic files, some of the US state articles...). I propose a template like {{nostub}} that will make stubbot ignore the page. The template itself would insert nothing in the page itself. How easy will this be to do? humanbe in 18:13, 7 October 2007 (EDT)

Sure, just insert a hidden chunk of text that would be unique and tell me what the text is and I will update stubbot. tmtoulouse torment 18:23, 7 October 2007 (EDT)
The hidden chunk of text will be {{nostub}}. It will be self-hiding, and is an easy way to "unstub" while also fending off Mr. Stubbot. humanbe in 18:41, 7 October 2007 (EDT)
Should stubbot completely ignore Template:Nostub or should it remove any {{stub}} or VSA labels it finds as well? tmtoulouse torment 18:47, 7 October 2007 (EDT)
Just ignore the article should be enough, although no harm in it doing "cleanup" as well. The implication is that the article should not be on any "emergency fix" lists, nor imply that it is far from finished. Simply editing "stub" to "nostub" manually should usually do all the cleanup, since the cats come from the use of "stub", right? humanbe in 19:00, 7 October 2007 (EDT)
I put it on cherry picking to test it. humanbe in 19:02, 7 October 2007 (EDT)
the VSA category is a separate from stub. tmtoulouse torment 19:08, 7 October 2007 (EDT)
OK. No big deal, though, since any "nostubbing" will be done manually, and the template is always at the bottom, letting the editor also remove any extraneous separate cats at the same time. Also, VSAs are much less likely to be nostubbed. What was the cutoff, eleven characters or something? humanbe in 19:47, 7 October 2007 (EDT)


Hey, what are the secret spots on the forum, like cabal I think it is called and how do I get on to them?The AlienDon't tase me, Bro!!! 19:20, 7 October 2007 (EDT)

Its been mothballed. tmtoulouse torment 19:31, 7 October 2007 (EDT)
What does that mean?The AlienDon't tase me, Bro!!! 19:34, 7 October 2007 (EDT)
Its not used anymore and only still exists because we haven't decided to erase it yet. tmtoulouse torment 19:35, 7 October 2007 (EDT)
How do i get on? and why was it mothballed?The AlienDon't tase me, Bro!!! 19:46, 7 October 2007 (EDT)
Because it no longer serves a purpose, it existed only in the early days of RW during the peak of our anti-cp activity. tmtoulouse torment 19:50, 7 October 2007 (EDT)


Please don't explain it: It makes it even worse when te simplified version is just as baffling - Susantalk to me 22:05, 7 October 2007 (EDT) (edit conflict)


A little fire in the belly here.--PalMD-If it looks like a donut, eat it 22:15, 7 October 2007 (EDT)

Kinda weird[edit]

There's something really weird going on. When you search the phrase "Penn and Teller", the search page shows the article title match of "Penn & Teller" and a few pages containing the words "Penn", "and", and "Teller". It even shows some of the text on the "Penn & Teller" page However, when you click the "Penn & Teller" article, it takes you to a page called "Penn" with the message that the page does not yet exist, asking you if you want to edit it. Also, one or two articles link to "Penn & Teller", which appears as a blue-link, but when clicked takes to the same "Penn" page. If I remember correctly, someone noticed and tried to adress the problem a bit ago, but the problem still exists. I think (because of something Pal said) that it's because of the ampersand. ThunderkatzHo! 21:44, 8 October 2007 (EDT)

There are characters that cannot be used in titles, and '&' is one of them. This is because it "means something" to the wiki software (basically, variable follows, like "&action=edit"). I thought Trent managed to delete the old Penn & Teller article from the database, but I couldz be wrong. Again. humanbe in 21:49, 8 October 2007 (EDT)

For your amusement[edit]

I just found it.--PalMD-If it looks like a donut, eat it 10:47, 11 October 2007 (EDT)

Desperately seeking a bit of the woo-osphere where Doc hasn't been. Qi? Susantalk to me 13:00, 11 October 2007 (EDT)
Sorry, I get around, and to ask the question, "Qui est Qi?", "Non, Qi est quoi???" 15:14, 11 October 2007 (EDT)

6$ and my name[edit]

I just donated 6$ (planning to donate a bit more soon), anyways I just stopped by to ask that you don't reveal my name to anyone. I am mildly paranoid about my identity. I don't vandalize anymore but there are still certain Conservapedia sysops that would like to get my name. - Icewedge 01:59, 13 October 2007 (EDT)

Ice, we know what High School you go to. In Awalska (code to keep the state secret). Don't you think the basketball players there would give you up in a second? humanUser talk:Human 03:38, 13 October 2007 (EDT)
Would the basketball players even know who I am? - Icewedge 03:40, 13 October 2007 (EDT)
Probably not, unless, you, er, grew a beard (sorry, some crappy movie I saw last night). But, your point is taken. By the way, nice work on evidence for and old earth! Can we make that "ark" article as good? humanUser talk:Human 04:43, 13 October 2007 (EDT)

CP WIGO Page[edit]

After the last wandalism on this page it is not displaying correctly on my screen. The text only begins below the CP template box, leaving a lot of whitespace to the left of the box. Other users may not be experiencing this; as discussed elsewhere, my computer seems to have some quirky display issues.--Remarcsd 18:53, 13 October 2007 (EDT)

Thanks for your help[edit]

I appreciate your quick responses to the questions I posted on RationalWiki talk:Help. I'd give you a goat star or a goat barn or a side of goat or whatever, if I knew enough about how accolades work here yet. The fact that you are squandering your academic progress makes me feel thankful and guilty at the same time. I'm thankful for your sacrifice, guilty that I'm helping to retard your career, and thankful again that I am old enough to have finished gradualate school before the invention of wikis. Which probably would have put the kibosh on me completing any degree except maybe a doctorate of wikiology and probably not even that unless I could have defended my thesis on a talk page. --Teratornis 22:04, 13 October 2007 (EDT)


I'll have a go - should be informative - on my pda. Susantalk to me 18:53, 14 October 2007 (EDT)

Cool, thanks! I have got a wikibot running on the mirror right now cleaning up some issues that have more to do with mirroring the site to a new URL then the new software so its still a little glitchy. However the beta testing url is: I will adjust your user rights so you can edit. tmtoulouse torment 18:57, 14 October 2007 (EDT)
Anything I can help with? Locke User is Vandal/sysop Always Watching...... 19:02, 14 October 2007 (EDT)
I'm only interested if there is something I can do to help. Just let me know.--PalMD-If it looks like a donut, eat it 19:04, 14 October 2007 (EDT)

Basically what I need is for people to poke around the beta site and just do stuff with it, edit articles, move articles, view articles, diffs, whatever. Basically try and "break" it. Try both simple and obscure things and make sure everything is working. The goal of beta testing is to push the installation to the limit to see where it breaks down so I can fix those problems before they go live. Consider it creatively channeled vandalism. If you are interested let me know and I will adjust user rights accordingly. tmtoulouse torment 19:07, 14 October 2007 (EDT)

I don't know what the goals are...but i'm happy to do what I do best--break things.--PalMD-If it looks like a donut, eat it 19:12, 14 October 2007 (EDT)

Essentially the goal is to be able to upgrade the software we run the wiki on, with out having the wiki go down for a week and not work right for month as I work out all the glitches from the upgrade. I have created a mirror of this wiki at and I can implement the upgrades over there. I can then see what no longer works, what needs to be changed and how it needs to be changed. I can then record all that information and when its time I can upgrade the main site and have everything work an in hour instead of a month. I have essentially avoided any massive upgrades because I didn't want to kill the site. For this to work best I need other users other than me poking around on the beta site seeing if they can find bugs in the installation. The more bugs we work out and fix on beta the less trouble there will be on the real site.
Even loftier goals? Well to be able to provide a better website with as few problems as possible. tmtoulouse torment 19:18, 14 October 2007 (EDT)
Count me in. I'll create senseless stubs, un-useful edits, unneeded moves...whatever.--PalMD-If it looks like a donut, eat it 19:19, 14 October 2007 (EDT)
Funny, that's what I do on the "real" site. humanUser talk:Human 18:40, 15 October 2007 (EDT)
All right, I will move your user rights on the site now. As I mentioned above there are still some issues that have more to do with mirroring the site then the software upgrades. I have a wiki bot working on those right now but it probably won't be done for another day or so. In the mean time the place will particularly glitchy. I would recommend not playing too much till tomorrow. tmtoulouse torment 19:27, 14 October 2007 (EDT)
Count me in, please. Locke User is Vandal/sysop Always Watching...... 21:16, 14 October 2007 (EDT)
Can I have editor rights on beta? Locke User is Vandal/sysop Always Watching...... 00:48, 15 October 2007 (EDT)
You should have it now. tmtoulouse torment 00:49, 15 October 2007 (EDT)
Many thanks. Locke User is Vandal/sysop Always Watching...... 00:52, 15 October 2007 (EDT)

Count me in. I'm particularly interested in anything that can be done to solve the problem of uploading SVG diagrams, as in Relativity. Gauss 12:41, 15 October 2007 (EDT)

I registered, emailed, but not able to have any functionality there. Seems at the rate you are moving along there, you really don't need the help you thought anyway. You are underestimating your own abilities, it seems. Speed demon that you are! :p -- --ИighŤ¤Ṭraiṇ ♦Τalk ǃ 17:51, 15 October 2007 (EDT)
Oh, wait, NM. Should have read all of the above. --ИighŤ¤Ṭraiṇ ♦Τalk ǃ 17:53, 15 October 2007 (EDT)

I'll try to break stuff for ya. Give me lots of powerz and I'll really make a mess of things... humanUser talk:Human 18:40, 15 October 2007 (EDT)


Hey, T...

Thanks for your comments there, and for backing me up. I love this place. PFoster 12:56, 20 October 2007 (EDT)

black hole[edit]

I am not a sysop anymore, you are the bigger black hole. — Unsigned, by: Bohdan / talk / contribs

Probably true but you were a sysops much longer than me... tmtoulouse torment 20:08, 21 October 2007 (EDT)
You just used terrible english: "a sysops". I think a block is in order.

is he a sysop here? He should be.-αmεσ (spy) 20:10, 21 October 2007 (EDT)

Ames, how dare you cause an inconvenient edit conflict. A block is in order.
I am inspired to make Bohdan a sysop again, if he wasn't already. Call me trouble... humanUser talk:Human 20:37, 21 October 2007 (EDT)
So, B, you staying? Locke User is Vandal/sysop Always Watching...... 21:02, 21 October 2007 (EDT)
Anyone else wanna be a sysop, I'm givin' 'em out like candy tonight! humanUser talk:Human 21:10, 21 October 2007 (EDT)
Give the power to TK, just to see if he really does watch our site all the time. ThunderkatzHo! 21:12, 21 October 2007 (EDT)
I blocked you for 314 secs for saying that, but it's a great idea. I should probably go back to le baseball now before I cause more harm. humanUser talk:Human 21:21, 21 October 2007 (EDT)

That is a horrible idea! And if I could have, would have blocked you for exactly 315 seconds to emphasize that. -- --Иight¤Ṭrain ♦Τalk ǃ 20:37, 22 October 2007 (EDT)


Who is the owner or dude with the computer for this site or whatever?The AlienSick Freak!!! 02:31, 22 October 2007 (EDT)

ME!!!!!! You!!!!!! Them!!!!!! er.... close enough... humanUser talk:Human 03:08, 22 October 2007 (EDT)
In Soviet RationalViki, the site owns you!!! --AKjeldsenGodspeed! 09:29, 22 October 2007 (EDT)

I was just wondering?[edit]

What if rationalwiki is around for a year? Elassint 17:08, 24 October 2007 (EDT)

Rationalwiki has about two months left.— Unsigned, by: Bohdan / talk / contribs
To answer the question, if RW is around for a year, Spring will come early, aquifers will be recharged, global warming will stop, and Andrew Schlafly will vote for Hillary Clinton. humanUser talk:Human 17:33, 24 October 2007 (EDT)

No subpages in RationalWiki: namespace[edit]

I found there are No subpages in the RationalWiki: namespace. It would be nice to have subpages there, so:

  • Subpages would get automatic links to their parent pages at the top.
  • The default sort key magic word would work correctly for category links.

I believe the fix should require only one or two lines of code in the LocalSettings.php file for RationalWiki on your server. You should only have to add a line to the $wgNamespacesWithSubpages variable for the RationalWiki: namespace (and probably also for RationalWiki talk:). Let me know if you have any questions about this. And thanks for your help. --Teratornis 03:06, 25 October 2007 (EDT)

This variable is all ready set so something else is interfering. I will see if I can track down the glitch. tmtoulouse torment 15:35, 28 October 2007 (EDT)

broken rule[edit]

This is it, you black hole. You have broken your own rule about editing a user space. Now block yourself and turn over your powers to me. Bohdan 01:22, 26 October 2007 (EDT)

There is a qualitative difference between a user page and a user sub page. tmtoulouse torment 01:23, 26 October 2007 (EDT)
Oh yeah? What is it? Bohdan 01:24, 26 October 2007 (EDT)
One is a user page the other is a user sub page. tmtoulouse torment 01:25, 26 October 2007 (EDT)
You can't fault flawless logic like that. :) --Edgerunner76 13:58, 26 October 2007 (EDT)

Compelling lawyering, Trent.-αmεσ (spy) 01:28, 26 October 2007 (EDT)

Tmtoulouse, you really are a ignorant former CP sysop, aren't you? The rule does not say "user page" it says "user page space". This implies subpages. I expect an apology and bureaucrat status. Bohdan 01:29, 26 October 2007 (EDT)
Compelling lawyering, Bohdan. You should at least give him bureaucrat status.-αmεσ (spy) 01:30, 26 October 2007 (EDT)
Ames, I noticed you slandered me on my user page, and I can't edit it. That wasn't very nice. Bohdan 01:31, 26 October 2007 (EDT)
I motion for an immediate dismissal of the complaint against ames. Locke User is Vandal/sysop Always Watching...... 01:34, 26 October 2007 (EDT)
I motion... to confuse M. Bohdan! humanUser talk:Human 01:39, 26 October 2007 (EDT)
Gentlemen! All this lawyering and motioning is diluting our mobocratic core values! Let's dig out the torches and pitchforks and burn some innocent witches, I say! --AKjeldsenGodspeed! 12:24, 26 October 2007 (EDT)

Anyone starts burning witches & I get my Golden Sickleout & start sacrificing. (or should I get my horsewhip?) Susanspeak your mind 12:44, 26 October 2007 (EDT)

Just noticed your horsewhips offer Susan. Maybe you could contact me privately about this. Genghis Khant 12:28, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
What if they're really evil and irrational witches? (Never was much for whips, but I'm always partial to a good sacrifice). --AKjeldsenGodspeed! 13:54, 26 October 2007 (EDT)
~Grabs torch and pitchfork~ Where be a witch? Locke User is Vandal/sysop Always Watching...... 22:13, 26 October 2007 (EDT)

What if...[edit]

...hypothetically, the "mob" decided to banish you from this wiki? What if I got enough support to finally oust you for good? Would you, I don't know, give your powers up? Perhaps to me? Thanks for your time. Bohdan 01:58, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

No answer? Bohdan
And what would you do with the power, Bohdan. Locke User is Vandal/sysop Always Watching...... 02:22, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
May the mobs will be done.......I would relinquish all my power on the no one ever said nothing about the "server" side powers :). I control the web server...which kinda makes me God. tmtoulouse torment 03:36, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
I think he wouldn't use them for minipulation and attacks on others in some Star Chamber, as TNT, AmesG, Hoji, Kels and Human (among others) do, for starters. That would be a start, no? I vote for Bohdan for RW Leader! --Иight¤Ṭrain ♦Τalk ǃ 03:35, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
Oh god...--PalMD-If it looks like a donut, eat it 04:11, 3 November 2007 (EDT)


Thanks for the welcome. I'm new at this so I'm not sure I'm replying in the appropriate manner... hope so! --Justinfr 11:59, 4 November 2007 (EST)

Essentially you have two choices in replying, you can reply on your talk page or you can reply, like you have, on the persons talk page. Both are done, though if two people both choice to reply on the other persons talk page you get what are called "ping-pong" conversations where you have to move from one page to the next to see whats going on. Some prefer to avoid that and will say "I don't like ping-pong conversations" that means they will reply on the talk page that the messages is posted on. Hope thats clear. tmtoulouse torment 12:09, 4 November 2007 (EST)
Very clear, thanks a bunch.--Justinfr 12:12, 4 November 2007 (EST)
Whoa, I just looked at your wikipedia talk page and you're at McMaster. I'm at Waterloo. You didn't go see [this hogwash] last week, did you? They had the same events here. --Justinfr 19:45, 4 November 2007 (EST)
Ha! Yes I did in fact, I stumbled upon it by accident that night while heading to get dinner.....when I refused to sing new age gospel music I got a lot of glares..... tmtoulouse torment 19:54, 4 November 2007 (EST)

History from Conservapedia[edit]

Check out the recovered text I saved from deletion for you, here. I enjoyed the testimonial by Ed Poor, as well as the edit that finally got you banned... here. Also, holy hell, I forgot you were a sysop once.-αmεσ (spy) 14:18, 4 November 2007 (EST)

To my great shame....but I still claim that since it was less than an hour it doesn't count :). tmtoulouse torment 14:29, 4 November 2007 (EST)
Black hole: You'll always be one. Locke User is Vandal/sysop Always Watching...... 14:35, 4 November 2007 (EST)

You should've gone on a bannination binge. But I guess that was before we knew the FULL DEPTH of how ridonkulous CP was.-αmεσ (spy) 14:36, 4 November 2007 (EST)

Yes this is early on in the proccess. tmtoulouse torment 14:37, 4 November 2007 (EST)


There there... it's OK... don't cry. --Ζωροάστρης 20:10, 4 November 2007 (EST)

That's right, kick the guys ass instead. Locke User is Vandal/sysop Always Watching...... 20:12, 4 November 2007 (EST)

Tmtoulouse is such a wimp. I remember when that one lady schooled him on her blog, and he cried all night. Bohdan 20:15, 4 November 2007 (EST)

Bohdan, don't you need to go skool the CP folks? After all, you have a brain, and the rest of them, er...don't.--PalMD-If it looks like a donut, eat it 20:19, 4 November 2007 (EST)
Ha! I may not be a medical doctor, but I know that without a brain, a person couldn't survive. Nice try. Bohdan 20:23, 4 November 2007 (EST)
CPers use Bibles instead. --Kels 20:26, 4 November 2007 (EST)


Do you remember when she schooled you? I bet that made you feel pretty stupid, eh? Bohdan 16:38, 6 November 2007 (EST)

Terribly so. 16:47, 6 November 2007 (EST)
Why is it that when ever I bring up this embarrasing experience, you either don't respond (see above), or something strange happens (like you log out)? Are you that ashamed of your schooling at the hands of O'Leary? You should consider it a privalege to be schooled in such a manner. Bohdan 16:50, 6 November 2007 (EST)
Magical thinking thats all. 16:51, 6 November 2007 (EST)
Please, don't link to a pathetic article to hide your [[shame]]. Bohdan 16:54, 6 November 2007 (EST)
I have no shame. 16:55, 6 November 2007 (EST)
  • Will you just log in? Why did you log out? Are you that ashamed? Bohdan 16:59, 6 November 2007 (EST)

User:Tmtoulouse speedy nom[edit]

A tag has been placed on your userpage, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done because it is an article about a certain website, blog, forum, or other web content that does not assert the importance or significance of that web location. Please read our criteria for speedy deletion, particularly item 7 under Articles, as well as notability guidelines for websites. Please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources which verify their content.

Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself. To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait a while for you to add contextual material, please affix the template {{hangon}} to the page, and put a note on User talk:Tmtoulouse. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. Thanks. [[User:Idiot|Idiot]] 16:57, 6 November 2007 (EST) — Unsigned, by: / talk / contribs

sig details corrected humanUser talk:Human 17:50, 6 November 2007 (EST)

Red Link Question[edit]

Do you any insight into the issue raised here? I guess it would be possible to write a bot or something to parse each article, which I might actually be willing to do, but maybe there's something on the back end that would work easier.--Bayesupdate 21:14, 6 November 2007 (EST)


Seeing as our vandals have a rather predictable naming pattern, would it perhaps be beneficial to install something like this? Locke User is Vandal/sysop Always Watching...... 21:31, 11 November 2007 (EST)

You mean to block racist names? Could be a good idea. But I'm sure people would soon figure out weird spellings of them.--Bobbing up 13:07, 12 November 2007 (EST)
If this gets installed, the blacklist needs to be at least as awesome as this one.--Bayesupdate 13:57, 12 November 2007 (EST)
I agree with Bob, there are in infinite number of ways around string blocking. humanUser talk:Human 14:14, 12 November 2007 (EST)


I can't seem to log in this morning, even when I request a new password. Is there something wrong with it? --Kels 09:10, 12 November 2007 (EST)

Heh, heh! It doesn't recognise you now you're a sysop! Susan... purrrrrr ... 09:26, 12 November 2007 (EST)
Heck, I don't even recognize myself! --Kels 14:18, 12 November 2007 (EST)

Is this problem still occuring? tmtoulouse torment 14:23, 12 November 2007 (EST)

Works for me.--Bobbing up 14:27, 12 November 2007 (EST)
Seems to work now, not sure what happened. --Kels 20:56, 12 November 2007 (EST)