Talk:2021 U.S. Capitol riot

From RationalWiki
Jump to: navigation, search
Icon altright.svg

This Alt-right related article has been awarded BRONZE status for quality. It's getting there, but could be better with improvement. See RationalWiki:Article rating for more information.

Copperbrain.png
Icon sociology.svg This article contains information about one or more living persons.

Articles about living people must be handled carefully, because they are more open to legal threats.
Reference any contentious allegations solidly; unreferenced allegations should be removed.
If legal threats are raised on this page, please direct the potential litigant to RationalWiki:Legal FAQ; do not interact with them.

Archives for this talk page: <1>, (new)



Bigly perps[edit]

Given that the FBI has indicated that there could eventually be hundreds of arrests[1] from the coup attempt, we might think about doing something structurally similar to what was done on the QAnon page with the map dissection. That is, moving the perps to a footnote that has a page transclusion. Bongolian (talk) 21:24, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

Fuck man we can't be listening everybody that was rioting, that's ridiculous. Trimmed.-Hastur! (talk) 06:39, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Big list[edit]

@Bongolian What is the purpose of the list? Who reads through it? Who recognizes the names they see on it? Who learns from the list?-Hastur! (talk) 08:21, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

You could make an argument that it should be culled, but I don't think a wholesale deletion is a good idea. An alternative to culling could be to list some prominent names in the main body (Proud Boys, conspirators or other egregious characters), and then move the rest to a footnote, similar to what was done with the QAnon map dissection. Bongolian (talk) 08:28, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
Suggesting keeping it or moving to to a subpage like QAnon map. It's well referenced and relevant enough that someone might go "hey I recognize them, they were my main source of getting QAnon shit, but this capitol shite went beyond what I was okay with, so it's starting a deradicalization process". I oppose nuking it. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / Pencil.png / Tux icon.png / Shield.png) 09:15, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
I didn't nuke it. I culled it. Are we really operating under the assumption that people read lists like that? And let's be honest, if somebody is blogging about QAnon, they also blogged about participating in the riot. Your example isn't a very good one-Hastur! (talk) 17:16, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
For what it's worth, there were two BoNs who read it and added more names that were missing. So yes, someone's reading it. Bongolian (talk) 18:23, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
Strong chance it's the same guy. We have a BoN with a fixation for creating lists. Look at the contributions, he tried the same thing with the TERF and Rockefeller Republican articles, among others-Hastur! (talk) 20:49, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
since when did rw suddenly not like unwieldy lists? you cant not keep adding to a list or making new ones. at this least this one is finite AMassiveGay (talk) 18:31, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
Yeah, good point, those ought to be purged too-Hastur! (talk) 20:49, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
You know a list has too many nobodies when you just write the name and the state of origin for a bunch of them. Who the heck cares? Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 22:03, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
I think there should be a list of those charged who were ring leaders, individuals seems a bit tedious when we're looking at 300+ people likely getting charged.-RipCityLiberal (talk) 22:54, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
Especially those insignificant individuals who literally have nothing listed next to them save their state of origin. Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 22:59, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
Like, oh boy am I sure glad that RW makes special note of Ryan Mason who is from Maryland. That’s it, he’s just from Maryland. Aren’t you glad you know about him? He’s from Maryland! Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 23:01, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
Fuck Ryan Mason. We should remove everybody from the list but him. He is the worst. And so is Maryland-Hastur! (talk) 06:37, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
Yeah, Mason appears to be an ordinary dickhead (curfew violation). Can we vote on/agree on criteria for inclusion that rise above simple unauthorized entry/curfew violation? Examples for inclusion could be 1) charges that include: weapons, violence, breaking and entering, theft, conspiracy, 2) membership in Proud Boys/militia/alt-right group, or 3) anyone who already has a webpage on RW. Bongolian (talk) 07:29, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Also, if someone's thinking that this is going to be a huge cull of the 235 known arrestees, read this from The Guardian:[2]

As more has become known about those arrested, the strategy being pursued by the FBI has also revealed itself. In several cases, people who participated in the storming of the Capitol were picked up and charged with relatively minor offenses such as trespassing or theft of mail simply as a means to get them into prosecutorial clutches. Once in the system, more serious charges could then be added as intelligence came in. That pattern of escalating charges can be seen in the cases of Nicholas DeCarlo from Texas and Nicholas Ochs from Hawaii.

Bongolian (talk) 19:14, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Is this a variant on the 'Al Capone Manoeuvre' (where he was charged on tax evasion)? Anna Livia (talk) 20:00, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
This is actually a very common prosecutorial procedure in the US. First charge someone with what you have very good evidence for. After you've got them charged, you can ask a judge for search warrants or comb through whatever was picked up when they were arrested. If you've also got their cohort(s) on charges, you can start squeezing them with the prisoner's dilemma. Often there are more serious charges that start coming out of this procedure. The difference with this and Capone is that it was widely known that Capone ordered his subordinates to commit a lot of nasty crimes, but the crimes could not be easily tied to Capone in a court of law (gangster code of silence, basically). Taxes were low-hanging fruit. If he had filed taxes, he would have had to have signed the tax returns (thus fraud because he couldn't state his actual sources of income). If hadn't signed them that would have still been tax evasion. Bongolian (talk) 21:02, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
Barring any objections, I'm going to trim the list again. I don't see any point in naming so many nobodies, unless we're trying to encourage vigilante justice maybe?-Hastur! (talk) 21:50, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
Do a short protection to autoconfirmed afterwards otherwise a BON will just restore it. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / Pencil.png / Tux icon.png / Shield.png) 21:57, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
Yes, please trim the list, Hastur! Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 22:14, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

'One month afterwards'[edit]

As one month has passed and the US hasn't gone into 'apocalypse scenario of choice' perhaps a review of the situation? Anna Livia (talk) 10:54, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Donald Trump was impeached by the House on January 13th for his actions leading up to the insurrection. Many of the Republicans are split between their efforts for saving face: support pursuing justice and convicting him, or crying for "unity" so they aren't next on the chopping block. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) literally begged the House not to impeach him, partially because of his complicity in the conspiracy mongering. There is still a lot of bad blood between the Dems and the Republicans, especially the more progressive Dems and the Republicans who egged the rioters on. 45 of the 50 republicans in the Senate apparently believe Trump can't be convicted after leaving office, so it looks unlikely the Conviction will pass with the 17 republicans needed for the 2/3rds majority.
Joseph R. Biden Jr. was inaugurated President of the United States on January 20th, two weeks later. There remains a fringe amount of reality denying lunatics Trumpists who believe that Trump is still president. Not that "he deserves the presidency" or "he won the election"-- that he is the president. Others are still fearmongering about the impending collapse of the US into a Socialist Democratic People's Republic. SonOfStranger (talk) 20:07, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Republican Party[edit]

The section covering the Republican Party reactions seems very problematic to me. Not only it has no sources, but some of the statements look like futurology and wishful thinking. Saying that a party that got 75 million votes a few months ago is being "wiped out" is, I believe, too much of a stretch. Predicting that they won't be able to win an election that will happen only in the end of 2022 right now is at best, a risk that no rational person should take. GeeJayK (talk) 01:55, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, that whole section is mostly crap. —cosmikdebris talk stalk 01:57, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
I agree, and unless there is an edit conflict I shall remove it. EDIT-never mind, I think I was too hasty. On the other hand I still think the whole section should be removed as it is beyond the scope of the article.-Flandres (talk) 02:00, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
Yes, we tend to shy away from prognostication in mainspace. Bongolian (talk) 02:10, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
It looks better now after @CircularReasoning edit, but I'd still drop the Sonic stuff. Too early for that (and I would say, unlikely, even as an unfunny hyperbole). GeeJayK (talk) 03:27, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
If we do keep it, methinks it would fit better if it was moved to the "aftermath" section. --Goatspeed. How's my editingCircularREmail2.gifasoningSteal my ideas 03:39, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
I removed it. If anyone wants to add it back, please add citations. Bongolian (talk) 08:55, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

Brian Sicknick[edit]

Wondering if anyone would be able to make edits reflecting new information on the death of Brian Sicknick. Caseinpointfan2 (talk) 00:42, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

I updated the information. Hopefully, that is satisfactory. Bongolian (talk) 05:39, 16 February 2021 (UTC)