Talk:Taiwan

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ROC

Since Taiwan is now the rump state of the ROC, it would be good to add at least some mention of the Taiwanese government's origins in the mainland. Bongolian (talk) 17:25, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

The page pretty much does that already. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Try our pumpkin spice lasagna!} 18:10, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

You're right. I must have been looking at too many things at once. Bongolian (talk) 18:18, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

The recent edit war

So I reverted the edits in question mainly because the citations are shit. It's just questions, in quotation marks, in ref tags. There's no links, no further context, no further information. It's bad sourcing. If the sourcing was cleaned up and reliable sources given, I would be more inclined to let the edits stand. Apologies for not responding earlier. ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 02:35, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

I figured you had a reason, so I just rolled back the BoN when they got stubborn. I’m on my phone, so I wasn’t super interested in investigating further. }Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 03:40, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Country

Will ping others when I get home - I strongly oppose listing Taiwan as a country because Taiwan is a part of China and it is not RW’s business to insult 1.3+ billion and probably even more as others firmly believe. Thoughts? Andrew5 mobile (talk) 22:41, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

I don't see how this potentially insulting 1.3+ billion Chinese is an issue. Should we worry about the 23,45 million Taiwanese that not recognizing their independence might offend. Or the about 55 million people living in countries that have recognized Taiwan's sovereignty. Or the almost 2.4 billion Christians, 1.9 billion Muslims or the 2,27 million followers of other religions who we might offend on the daily basis. This is RationalWiki. We are supposed to base our articles on what we deem rational, not on random peoples' feelings.

That said, argument about what RW's line on China/Taiwan issue should be could be had. Here or on separate debate page maybe. Knight Commander^{In Service}_{To Her}^Goatness 23:00, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

(EC)Taiwan/the Republic of China is, de facto, a country. Even Wikipedia lists it as such. It administers the Island of Taiwan independently with its own government. Taiwan is just the sort of awkward shorthand that inevitably emerges when to governments compete over the same territory, like referring to "Former/Later/Western/Southern/Northern Liang during the Sixteen Kingdoms period.

Also, if you think the biggest factor related to putting something in a rationalwiki article is whether it insults large amounts of people you don't understand this site at all.-Flandres (talk) 23:04, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

I don't think listing Taiwan as a country is going to offend my dad or his family lol. My dad, who was raised in Taiwan from a formerly mainland Chinese family does consider Taiwanese to just be Chinese, like they're the same people, but I don't think he'll object to Taiwan being its own country. I don't personally see an issue and I can't imagine the issue, but I'm American lol, what do I know. --It's-a me, 🎄LeftyGreenMario!🎄 23:13, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

I also consider it being POV pushing, specifically by endorsing an American POV. Most sources don't say it's either a province or a country, because it's that contreversal. But only 78 million live in countries that recognize the ROC. I mean, you have 82 million live in a country that doesn't recognize Cyprus, over 210 million living in a country that doesn't recognize Armenia, and over 1.16 billion living in countries that don't recognize Israel.That is quite off topic, what I'm saying is RW shouldn't make a bold determinate. Besides, the Chinese government will censure us.--Andrew5 (talk) 23:48, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

And while Wikipedia lists it as a country, Wikipedia is also banned in China. [1]. Andrew5 (talk) 23:49, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

So all of these bizarre statistical games you are playing are great examples of argumentum ad populum. RW does not leave things out of articles because they offend a large group of people, otherwise half our religious articles would be deleted on the spot. Furthermore, we do not leave things out of articles to please a government-we do have a Tiananmen Square massacre article after all.

Again, you just don't seem to understand rationalwiki that well.-Flandres (talk) 23:58, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

I'm not sure if Andrew5 is editing from China. But if they are, maybe they should consider that Wikipedia being blocked over there might deny them some boringly objective information. Knight Commander^{In Service}_{To Her}^Goatness 00:04, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

(EC)How does Wikipedia being banned in China relate to this. RationalWiki might also be banned in China, but it's based in New Mexico. Lots of things are banned in the totalitarian Peoples Republic of China.

Besides that, the bit about international recognition controversy is covered in Taiwan#One_China_policy. Maybe that portion of the article could be expanded, but as it is I see no major problems with the tone.

Maybe you, @Andrew5, should check your biases. Knight Commander^{In Service}_{To Her}^Goatness 23:59, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

I slightly expanded it. Andrew5 (talk) 00:06, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

I mean, if we AREN'T banned in China, that would mean we haven't done a good enough job of critiquing the CCP. Plutocow (talk) 00:49, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

Taiwan should just declare independence

If China intends on retaking Taiwan by brute force, not much point to being ambiguous. --Non-Binary EAS Creator (talk) 21:43, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

That would be a horrible idea. China, and it's allies like Russia, would immediately declare war. Even with US and EU intervention, it would not stand up as others would help China. --Andrew5 (talk) 22:31, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

John Oliver

There was a "Last Week Tonight" episode back in October 2021. Should it be added to our article? We use his show in several articles, so. Arcadium Trancefer (talk) 15:13, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

If you mean just embedding the whole-ass video into the article, then absolutely not. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 17:29, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Is that not a thing that already exists in many articles, such as Alexander Lukashenko, capital punishment, Alex Jones, net neutrality, sex education, etc? (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ Natsuki Marx ♥ (talk) 18:11, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Self determination

Taiwan is legally recognized as part of the PRC by most of the international community. So why does our article on South Ossetia paint South Ossetia as an illegitimate project and not Taiwan? Why does only Taiwan get the right to self-determination? I suspect if I added the line "If you want to see the country that Taiwan is legally part of, please see China" it would be swiftly reverted. Is it too much to ask for some logical consistency here? Carthage (talk) 16:13, 8 October 2023 (UTC)