RationalWiki:2021 board of trustees election/Campaigning

From RationalWiki
Jump to navigation Jump to search
Hop on board the Trump Train Goat-Cart!

3 trustees will be elected to serve 2021-2023. 1 trustee will be elected for 2021-2022.

"Campaigning" is for candidate promises & arguments in favor of their trustee-ship.

"Question time" is to ask candidates about their scandalous, hypocritical, and generally shitty behavior -- or anything at all you'd like to know their thoughts on.

"Endorsement sheet" is to endorse candidates.



So I guess I’ll start. And well, I don’t really know what the job involves, and I’m not really good at promoting myself I guess, so I’m not sure exactly what’s expected of me here. But I will say that I am good at avoiding drama and scandalous behaviour, so that’s probably a plus. I do legit care about the wiki and will try to keep it on the right track, and I’m just here to do my best. Also I’d like to volunteer for the one year position, if that’s allowed. Anyway thanks! Please feel free to vote for me if you like! 💗 ASELAकुरा 💗 01:28, 20 July 2021 (UTC)


I'd like to promise everyone who votes for me a chip butty and a bottle of beer. I'd like to. But I know I can't.

I've been a RationalWiki editor for very nearly ten years now. I created my account on 10 September 2011 and I've made as near as damnit at least one edit very single day since then. That's even though I was left without a computer for a month last year when my 9-year-old laptop died on me. I know there are some users out there who've been here since 2007 who still se me as some Johnny-come-lately. I guess I'll just have to live with that for as long as RationalWiki and I are both still around.

RationalWiki is something I truly believe in. I wholeheartedly support its mission and try, in my own small way, to keep it true to that mission. In the past, I've said that I believe RationalWiki has changed me for the better. And I'll say it again. I believe RationalWiki has changed me for the better. I was already a liberal before I came to RW. But noe I'm a woke SJW and I don't care who knows it. I probably would have become one anyway. But RationalWiki definitely helped push me in the right direction. And this site has certainly helped me recognize when my arsehole bosses are using logical fallacies and generally talking bollocks.

Also, in spite of the trolls and in spite of the drama, I firmly RationalWiki can be a great place to jus hang out. When I badly needed a shoulder tp cry om. RationalWiki was the first place I went to. And the community has never failed to come through for me when I've needed them.

The reason I'm saying this is not because I think it qualifies me for a position on the Board. I'm saying this because I want to impress on you how important RationalWiki is to me and how much I want to ensure that it stays around for as long as possible. One way I can do that is by making sure that RationalWiki fulfills its legal obligations by actually having a Board of Trustees. And I've always taken my position as a member of the Board of Trustees seriously. I've attended every Board meeting that's been held since I was first elected. That's even though every one of them started after midnight my time and the last one was held at was between one o'clock and three o'clock in the morning for me. And I'll happily stay up until the wee small hours of the morning again and again just to do my bit for the RatWiki.

So I'm doing this because it's my way of making sure the lights stay on and because somebody's got to. Spud (talk) 13:22, 20 July 2021 (UTC)


Vote for Spud! Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 17:44, 20 July 2021 (UTC)


So, a few things you should know about me.

  1. I don't speak English as my first language. Although I doubt I'll have any problem communicating with the other members of the board (I don't remember ever being misunderstood or misunderstand someone here), this makes me unreliable to write down paperwork all by myself, someone will probably need to review my work. GeeJayK (talk) 12:47, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
  2. My experience with Wikis and with RW. I first discovered RW in 2011. I was a freshman in college, and after reading The Art of Being RightWikipedia I decided to read more about fallacies, and I found out about this site. I only signed up in 2018, but most of my edits were made only this year. My experience with Wikis is however older than RW itself. I discovered Wikipedia in February 2006 doing a reseach on the Template:Voyager probes (one of my most enduring passions) and signed up on the same day to edit about poverty and development (I was reading The End of PovertyWikipedia back then, which sparked my love for economics). I edited far more the Portuguese WikipediaWikipedia than the English Wikipedia. I also edited a few other Wikis in the meantime.
  3. I understand that the board has to deal with many resignations. I probably won't resign I usually take things that involve the others seriously. I don't like letting the others down after making a commitment. Therefore, despite I can't guarantee 100% that I'll be here in 2 years, I'll do my best. Even if I become inactive (indeed, I'm far less active than I was only a three months ago since now private matters are taking most of my time) I won't resign and I'll still check my e-mail regularly to see if there's any new assignment. I'll only resign either if I realize I'm making an appalling job, if my personal life really requires (but again, I’ll stop editing the Wiki before this happens), or if the Mob does not want me as a trutee anymore. GeeJayK (talk) 12:47, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Question time

Questions for Candidates

  • Will the board be interested in publishing minutae of it's meetings again? I am asking because this was done early in the board's lifespan, but I cannot find any more being published after 2013. Asking this from the current candidates because this would be something I'd like to see brought back; to me (and I assume many others) the operation of the board comes across as a black hole at times, with decisions only sometimes being communicated (the noticeboard only was made last year). Given that technically speaking the board holds the absolute authority in the chain of command, transparency is quite an important matter to me on this front. Techpriest (talk) 09:24, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
    Yeah that sounds like a good idea for sure. 💗 ASELAकुरा 💗 11:06, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
    Just to expand a little on my answer here: I have also found it fairly difficult to really understand the details about what the board is currently doing (aside from keeping the lights on). And that’s actually kind of a significant issue in my view: I would say that what the board does is relevant to everyone who uses the wiki or who donates to the RWF. So increased transparency (eg through published minutes) is something I think would be a good idea. Of course, there may be other factors here that I don’t understand, and I’m open to be corrected on anything. However, on general principle, I think it’s a good idea. 💗 ASELAकुरा 💗 11:17, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
    Greater transparency is fine with me. I don't volunteer to take the minutes. But I'm happy to give a summary of each meeting from memory here as soon as I can after each one happens. And if you have any further questions about what went on in the meetings, I'd be happy to answer them. Spud (talk) 12:18, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
    Sounds just fair, accountability is important. But I'd like to know why the board stopped publishing them. Maybe there's a reason. GeeJayK (talk) 12:54, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────This question has been asked of candidates in previous years and has not produced any results. Because the trustee elections are — like this one — generally not competitive, it's hard to hold candidates to their words. I actually think that this is the most important task for trustees because it 1) shows to constituents (the electorate) that they actually did their job and 2) records a history for future trustees to review. If there's only one thing that you do a as a trustee, make sure that at least one trustee does this. It shouldn't be that hard: take contemporaneous minutes and publish them. If you can't do that record the Zoom meeting with the other trustees' permissions and summarize the video, then publish the summary. Thank you. Bongolian (talk) 04:05, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

I would volunteer myself to write them, but as I've said below, I probably the least reliable candidate to write stuff. GeeJayK (talk) 15:26, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
I should be okay to write them most of the time (though still depending on my uni schedule odc). Just want to clarify the level of detail expected — would it suffice to just give a summary of the topics discussed, points raised and conclusions reached? Or would it be better to have more detail (eg which member said what, direct quotes, etc)? 💗 ASELAकुरा 💗 03:37, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
Given that we've had nothing for so long, I would say that anything at all would be great! Bongolian (talk) 03:39, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
  • What is your favorite pizza topping? (very important question) Techpriest (talk) 09:24, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
    Anchovies omg. I regularly eat an entire entire tin/jar of anchovies in one go, so I’m a big fan. 💗 ASELAकुरा 💗 11:06, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
    Peperoni. Spud (talk) 13:31, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
    Blue cheese. GeeJayK (talk) 12:54, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
  • Can you provide me with any information on how you plan on tackling the fact that the board is still legally known as the RationalWiki Foundation as opposed to the RationalMedia Foundation? This is paperwork that still hasn't been filed, even though the resolution was agreed upon years ago. Techpriest (talk) 09:24, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
    Not particularly good with paperwork and legal stuff, especially bc I don’t live in the country where I assume this has to be filed (the US). I will defer to the other board ppl here. 💗 ASELAकुरा 💗 11:06, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
    Personally, I prefer the name RationalWiki Foundation. The name RationalMedia Foundation dates back to time when there were plans to expand beyond thus one wiki. And those plans never really came to anything. We purchased EvoWiki but now it no longer exists (with some of its contents ending up here). When I was first elected, FuzztCatPotato asked me what I though should be done about the legal name and I said, "Keep it as RationalWiki Foundation", for the reason I've just given you. That didn't count as an official Board meeting because the two of us were the only ones that turned up. The name is something I think the Board and the community as a whole should discuss. Spud (talk) 13:31, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
    Has the community ever voted for this? The Russian version of RW aside there's only RW as far as I know. RWMedia would make more sense if we were a broader project, like MediaWiki. GeeJayK (talk) 12:54, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
  • Legally the board is in quite a precarious position; The RWF has had a couple of lawsuits filed against it in the past, quite a number of which were thrown out because they were so poorly filed they never had to reach the RWF from what I can tell. Do you have an idea on what you would do if another lawsuit were filed against the RWF? A default judgement could be quite disastrous for RationalWiki from what I can tell. (Feel free to research this question if you don't have an answer for me right now.) Techpriest (talk) 09:24, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
    I don’t have an answer right now, bc I have no legal experience. However, this is definitely pretty important, and plus I don’t think any of the other candidates have legal experience either (correct me if I’m wrong). So I will read into it as much as I can and try to get back to you. If anybody has any ideas on where I can start with my research, I’d appreciate it if you could lmk. 💗 ASELAकुरा 💗 11:06, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
    I don't really think there's anything to be overly concerned about. This is a wiki. Nothing is set in stone here. If something is genuinely libelous, it can just be removed. Just about everything that really is libelous gets speedily deleted long before the subjects have a chance to complain about it. Most of the cranks that threaten to sue wouldn't have a leg to stand on because something isn't libel if its demonstrably true. There have certainly been no tryly credible legal threats during my time on the Board. Spud (talk) 13:31, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
    Per Spud. GeeJayK (talk) 12:54, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
  • How do you plan on tackling the upgrade to RationalWiki 1.35/whatever the latest LTS release is by then? Tim Starling made a test wiki on 1.35 with the same extensions a couple months ago to test features, but testing on that seems to have grinded to a halt and the main wiki itself still runs on a very old version of MediaWiki that hasn't been unsupported in years. Sure, it's not as old as the users of version used on Conservapedia, but it needs an update. Techpriest (talk) 09:24, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
    I don’t know much about tech stuff (at least not yet; I am about to be studying it for uni). so I don’t have much to say on this one, except that I’ll definitely advocate for prioritising the update. I’ve had a lot of trouble with RW’s interface, especially on mobile devices, so it’s important to me. 💗 ASELAकुरा 💗 11:06, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
    I know sod all about tech stuff. The fact I can even turn on a computer is a minor miracle. But I will make sure this is brought up at the next meeting. Spud (talk) 13:31, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
    My knowledge on computers is very limited. I think the techs are more capable in this matter than us.GeeJayK (talk) 12:54, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
  • Also, while this isn’t a direct answer to any particular question I just wanna say. I’m sorry for not really knowing the answers to a lot of these things. I’ve just not really had much experience with Most Stuff. I figure it’s probably better to be upfront about that, instead of trying to hide it. That being said, I will also of course do my best to learn all the stuff that I need to know for the role. I will also defer to the better judgement of those who have more knowledge and experience, if I’m ever uncertain about something. 💗 ASELAकुरा 💗 11:06, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
    It's okay to not know yet! I mostly asked these questions because they are from the top of my head the most concerning matters I've had with the board in the past 2 years and I'd be curious to know what the candidates think. Being open to learning to me is just as valuable a skill as already knowing everything. Techpriest (talk) 14:30, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Question for spud

There isn't anything actually stopping you from sending a chip sandwhich and bottle of beer for anyone who gives you their address...no? ShabiDOO 22:36, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Anyone who is actually foolish enough to want to receive a cold chip butty in the post that, given most of our editors are in North America and Europe, would probably have come from half a world way, can get in touch with me after the election and I'll see what I can do. Spud (talk) 23:51, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
Is it really just fries on sliced bread? Because that kinda sounds gross. Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 23:55, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
But Spud, maybe the one thing I've been waiting for is a soggy, mouldy chip butty that has been posted from overseas! I will be certain to give you my address and I will start counting down the minutes until I get it!!!! ShabiDOO 00:11, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
This is the kind of thing that ‘makes or breaks’ campaigns. We’ve all seen many promising editors destroyed by scandals, that won’t go away quietly, involving chip-buttys! On the other hand, if you are to mail your chip-butty make sure you get the right address, we can’t have people thinking there’s a new species of Unabomber on the loose. LeucippusSalva veritate 00:37, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
If you get a baggie of white powder in the mail instead of the promised sandwich, don’t open it. Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 01:34, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

@DuceMoosolini Here's a chip butty recipe. You could serve it in your ristorante italiano on English Night.

@Shabidoo Like I said, get in touch with me after the election and I'll see what I can do. Spud (talk) 00:55, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

I hope it tastes good, because the description makes it sound like something the lunch staff at my old high school would throw together after the latest round of Kansas budget cuts. Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 01:32, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

Shabidoo's questions for the candidates


I made a sea-weed lasagna and I regretted it the moment I taste-tested it. But I didn't warn my friends when I served it to them for dinner. Would you say that was a douchey thing to do? ShabiDOO 06:27, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Eh I mean, for me this comes down to: are your friends the type of people who will eat smth disgusting and say nothing about it just to be polite? If so I’d say, perhaps a little douchey, as in this case ur kinda forcing them to eat and pretend to enjoy it. However, if they’re the kinds of friends who feel comfortable saying “this is gross and I shall not eat it”, then it’s basically fine tbh, they have more choice in the matter. That’s the way I see it! Also personally I would never do this. I honestly will never cook for my friends, bc I’m worried that my bad cookin would make them not be my friends anymore. Perhaps an irrational fear but that’s the way it is 💗 ASELAकुरा 💗 04:33, 5 August 2021 (UTC)


If you had a dime for every time you farted in an enclosed public space and made every effort to conceal that it was you who did it...how much money would you have? ShabiDOO 06:27, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

$0.00. I very rarely pass wind in public. Of course, in the privacy of my own home, that's a different matter. I remember doing it one time when I was in school 35 years ago when the classroom was otherwise completely silent. Everybody laughed, including the teacher. Everybody knew it was me. I didn't try to pretend it wasn't. Spud (talk) 12:41, 3 August 2021 (UTC)


When people wear a face mask but don't cover their nose, do you think that they believe that they breathe out of their mouth 100% of the time? ShabiDOO 06:27, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

People who refuse to wear the mask correctly are fucking stupid. GeeJayK (talk) 18:54, 4 August 2021 (UTC)


How many digits of pi can you recite by memory. If it is less than 10 digits...what is your excuse for not knowing more? ShabiDOO 06:27, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Asela’s questions for all her fellow candidates

Do any of you have any cool art/music/creative projects you’ve done that you’d like to share? 💗 ASELAकुरा 💗 04:38, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

I draw a lot as part of my job. When I was in Turkey in 1987/98 I drew cartoons featuring all of my fellow teachers. Whenever teachers left the school, the boss presented them with a folder of all of my cartoons. It was her idea. Not mine. Spud (talk) 00:19, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
I can play the guitar, but that's all. I couldn't draw a circle if my life depended on it. I remember one day in my exchange school that I drew an airplane and people thought it was a chicken. GeeJayK (talk) 19:23, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Candidate endorsement sheet

1. Asela (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · vandal log · block log)

  1. Endorsements
    1. For courage and for encouraging positivity. I'm looking forward to getting to know her a little better. Spud (talk) 12:18, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
    2. Solid candidate. Techpriest (talk) 14:32, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
    3. Yes! Bongolian (talk) 04:11, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
    4. Dune fan. May Shai-Hulud bless her work as a trustee. GeeJayK (talk) 15:31, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
    5. Just all around wonderful human being. I'm sure she'll serve RW well. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 06:19, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
    6. Derp ShabiDOO 22:28, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
    1. User name is too exotic. It isn't white anglo-saxon protestant sounding. It makes me fearful that foreigners will take over America and force me to eat ethnic food every day. ShabiDOO 22:28, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

2. DuceMoosolini (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · vandal log · block log)

  1. Endorsements
    1. Hell, yes! He actually could organize a booze up in a brewery. We're really going to need him. Spud (talk) 12:18, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
    2. Why the fuck not. Duce is cool, this is a position he would be cool in if you ask me. Techpriest (talk) 14:32, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
    3. Yes! Bongolian (talk) 04:11, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
    4. Okay so I didn’t know how to do endorsements properly first lmao but anyway. Dedicated, extremely qualified, level headed. Certified “he’ll yea” from me. Glad I get the opportunity to work with him. 💗 ASELAकुरा 💗 08:36, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
    5. History buff, can't be a bad candidate. GeeJayK (talk) 15:31, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
    6. All hail Duce. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 06:19, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
    7. Derp ShabiDOO 22:28, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
    8. You are a credit to our hivemind --Goatspeed. Stalk meCircularREmail2.gifasoningSteal my ideas 02:06, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
    1. User name is fraudulent because Mussonlini wasn't a duke and he wasn't a Moose but a human being. These kind of user names shouldn't be allowed because allowing it is inviting anarchy which would lead to communism and the end of freedom as we know it. ShabiDOO 22:28, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

3. GeeJayK (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · vandal log · block log)

  1. Endorsements
    1. It takes courage to take this step so early on in a RatWikian's career. I'm looking forward to getting to know him a little better. Spud (talk) 12:18, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
    2. I always welcome fresh blood. Be bold, be brave! Think he'll do well. Techpriest (talk) 14:32, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
    3. Yes! Bongolian (talk) 04:11, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
    4. Always been extremely kind and reasonable to me, and really seems to care a lot about the wiki. Plus, impressive amounts of courage tbh. Certified “he’ll yea” from me. Can’t wait to get to know him better. 💗 ASELAकुरा 💗 08:36, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
    5. Don't know him all that well, but what Spud said. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 06:19, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
    6. Derp ShabiDOO 22:28, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
    7. Always reasonable and level-headed. This person has impressed me quite a bit, especially during that incel pov-pusher I can't remember's carpet-bombing of our site, when JayK made his debut. --Goatspeed. Stalk meCircularREmail2.gifasoningSteal my ideas 02:06, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
    1. User name is two letter of the alphabet spelt out but then the last one is just the letter not spelt out. This is confusing and the lack of consistency in the user name gives me anxiety. ShabiDOO 22:28, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

4. Spud (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · vandal log · block log)

  1. Endorsements
    1. Good d00d. No complains about working with him as a mod, rock solid. Techpriest (talk) 14:32, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
    2. Yes! Bongolian (talk) 04:11, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
    3. What can one even say? I think we all know that Spud is just, incredibly dedicated, beyond qualified, and consistently level-headed. Certified “he’ll yea” from me. Very excited to work with him. 💗 ASELAकुरा 💗 08:36, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
    4. The only reason why I can be a candidate is because Spud unbanned me in January. Will definitely be my first vote. If he runs for mod again in November I'll definitely vote for him too. GeeJayK (talk) 15:31, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
    5. Probably my favourite RatonalWikian and has a long history of serving with distinction. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 06:19, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
    6. Derp ShabiDOO 22:28, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
    7. Pog --Goatspeed. Stalk meCircularREmail2.gifasoningSteal my ideas 02:06, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
    8. I'm returning for a bit from hiatus and this is the only user campaigning that I recognise.—ClickerClock💾 talk.txt 02:33, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
    1. User name is confusing. Does it refer to a potato, a hole in a sock, a tool used to dig or a testicle. It could be so many of those things but without clarity I just feel afraid. ShabiDOO 22:28, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
      I got a cousin called Spud. The explanation I’ve been given is that he “looks like a spud”. 💗 ASELAकुरा 💗 10:34, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
      As it says on my user page, my parents started calling me Spud when I was a tiny tot because I loved mashed potato. And I still do. So in my case, the word most definitely means "potato". I knew it could mean a kind of spade, that's where "spud" as a slang word for potato comes from. I didn't know it could mean a hole in a sack. And you'd have to have pretty big bollocks to liken them to spuds. Spud (talk) 13:24, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
      This only increases my anxiety. I cannot endorse someone who loves potatoes so much that they were given a pet name after it. That is illogical. CANNOT COMPUTE!!! ShabiDOO 13:34, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
      We began calling my 8 year old nephew "potato" this summer, due to the uncanny resemblance. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 02:54, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
      Oh my Goat Shabi, how are you the funniest person ever? Your joke-condemnations killed me --Goatspeed. Stalk meCircularREmail2.gifasoningSteal my ideas 02:59, 30 July 2021 (UTC)


  • I endorse all the other candidates. They seem Nice :) 💗 ASELAकुरा 💗 03:04, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
  • Same. No issues with any of the candidates. Spud seems like the best one though. — pythoncoder  (talk | contribs) 11:32, 28 July 2021 (UTC)


  • Does anyone object to Asela volunteering for the one year position? Do the by-laws mean we have to decide it some other way?
    Usually I wouldn’t think something like this worthy of much discussion, but there isn’t much else to talk about as we have four seats to fill and four candidates. Christopher (talk) 14:54, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
    • I don't object. Spud (talk) 15:12, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
    • I don't object either. Let Asela do what she is most comfortable with. Oxyaena Harass 16:50, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
    • No objections. Techpriest (talk) 09:28, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
    • Derp ShabiDOO 22:31, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
  • Just for the record, I'm traveling right now. If you guys don't heard from me for the next two weeks that's why. I haven't seen some relatives for two years right now and this might be my best chance. GeeJayK (talk) 15:40, 7 August 2021 (UTC)