RationalWiki talk:All things in moderation/Archive23

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Deleting talk page comments

Hi, @GrammarCommie has been deleting talk page comments, which is not allowed, yet nobody intervened? I was pinged by @Oxyaena and I am not allowed to answer? Remember when GC came here to complain about me collapsing (not deleting!) comments but now is doing the same thing and everybody seems to not care about it now because some users are treated with baby gloves? — Godless Raven ^talk_stalk^walk_balk 🌹 16:41, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Addendum: https://rationalwiki.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GR/Archive1&diff=2178189&oldid=2178187 — Godless Raven ^talk_stalk^walk_balk 🌹 17:01, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Addendum 2: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/User_talk:GrammarCommie#Talk_page_comments (so this isn't the first time GC has done this either. He also did this to EK) — Godless Raven ^talk_stalk^walk_balk 🌹 17:26, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Its not the first time as GC has a history of doing this to others, which normally goes unaddressed. EK (talk) 17:30, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

@GR I shouldn't have to remind you that you don't have the authority to promote users out of sysop, nor the authority to threaten sysops with a block. That would have to go through the chicken coop. Secondly, I would like to see diffs of GC doing this. I know they exist, so dig some up if you want to make a case here (although frankly, a slap on the wrist like EK has given is enough in my opinion). Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 17:39, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

I actually do, read the guidelines, if they vandalize, I do have the right. @The Crow Here is the record: https://rationalwiki.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GrammarCommie&action=history — Godless Raven ^talk_stalk^walk_balk 🌹 17:41, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

A sysop can only be "promoted" back down to regular editor status if they request it, or if they are causing trouble through serious vandalism, troll behaviour, or abuse of sysop abilities such as blocking. Complaints of this kind should be raised at the chicken coop page, and the decision to "promote" the sysop should only be reached after a full discussion.

— Godless Raven ^talk_stalk^walk_balk 🌹 17:42, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Deleting comments on their own talk page may be out of line but it is not vandalism. Crow is right-a slap on the wrist at most.-Flandres (talk) 17:44, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

It is, and if it happens again, I will desysop and block. — Godless Raven ^talk_stalk^walk_balk 🌹 17:44, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

You clearly can't read. Complaints of this kind should be raised at the chicken coop case, and the decision to "promote" the sysop should only be reached after a full discussion. I'll just warn you, that at least from my perspective, it's not impossible that this will result in the coop boomeranging back onto you if you choose to make that decision. Your constant nagging of moderators to do certain things or block certain users is starting to annoy several regulars from what I can tell. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 17:47, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

That's fine, I will uphold the rules of this website while you and other goons enable transgressive behavior. I will defend this site's dignity until I no longer can. — Godless Raven ^talk_stalk^walk_balk 🌹 17:48, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘Raven, I'll be fortright this one time onto you: NOT EVERY ISSUE NEEDS A MOD. Sometimes it's best to just quietly revert/fix the issue at hand, leave a quick notify on a user's talkpage and move on. The coop says it right up above, try to do regular conversations on talkpages first. You are consistently trying to get people to move their issues into the coop, and it's starting to frustrate people. It makes it appear that you are not willing to compromise or talk out legitimate issues, and instead would rather run to the coop or to the mods when things don't go your way/someone does something you dislike. It gives the impression that you are at best a bootlicker, and at worst a rules lawyer who is trying to get people banned out of disagreement with you. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 17:52, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Right, not every issue needs a mod. And if GC deletes another comment - mine or otherwise - I will do the job that mods on this website refuse to do: depromote GC and block for 9hs. Nya. — Godless Raven ^talk_stalk^walk_balk 🌹 17:54, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Also, who is the bootlicker here? The person that consistently defends the site's own rules or the dutch guy who always covers up the bad behavior of an increasingly unhinged GC? — Godless Raven ^talk_stalk^walk_balk 🌹 17:55, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

You don't own the fucking site, stop acting like you do, GR. Start your own fucking wiki if you want something to own. Soundwave106 (talk) 17:58, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

When did I say that I own the site? I uphold the rules that are given on this website. I abide and honor them. You don't. Deal with it. I actually do like Ratwiki (check my contributions) and I want it to live by the standards that it demands. You don't. Start your own wiki if you want to whitewash the crimes of communism and bully anyone out who disagrees with you. — Godless Raven ^talk_stalk^walk_balk 🌹 18:00, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

The mob is sovereign, not the community standards. Did you not learn about the "guidelines" part?-Flandres (talk) 18:02, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

I'll add that constant edit wars are a clear violation of the community standards. "Uphold the rules", yeah right. Soundwave106 (talk) 18:05, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Then collect the evidence that I edit war (ps: not a good look for GC, your idol, because he editwarred with me) and go to coop. @Soundwave106 — Godless Raven ^talk_stalk^walk_balk 🌹 18:06, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

inshallah. EK (talk) 17:55, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

GR, you're starting to look like a whiny crybaby, and calling us goons does you no good. —cosmikdebris ^talk stalk 17:59, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

If you don't want to be called a goon, don't behave like a goon. So, is deleting talk page comments ok now? @Cosmikdebris Yes? No? Depends whether it's GC doing it? — Godless Raven ^talk_stalk^walk_balk 🌹 18:03, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

I'm still irritated at GC removing my talk page comments, particularly since it was on a mods talk page. EK (talk) 18:03, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict) If I recall correctly GrammarCommie has been called out for removing talk page material before so it wouldn't be a bad idea for a moderator to formally warn him about that--Hastur! (talk) 18:03, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

ye I did warn him, but he's rejected my warnings on other things before so it should be done by a mod for sure. EK (talk) 18:06, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

GR's continued presence on grammarcommie's talk page at this point must surely count as trolling and harassment. fair game to delete imho. talk of the 'rules' rings hollowing when it is accompanied by rank hypocrisy. AMassiveGay (talk) 18:07, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

If the mods act, I will be happy to not engage with GC. But there is a mob defending his crimes, and I won't just tolerate it. — Godless Raven ^talk_stalk^walk_balk 🌹 18:08, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

But it is not your place to act unilateraly when the community is clearly against you.-Flandres (talk) 18:11, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

I wouldn't need to act if the community didn't enable GC. So why not avoid me acting and defending the rules and just uphold the rules yourself? — Godless Raven ^talk_stalk^walk_balk 🌹 18:12, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Because the rules are not sovereign-the community is! Do you not know what Mobocracy means!? Oh, and actually refute that this site is a mobocracy and don't poison the well by slandering us as supporting child porn(for those unaware look a GC's talkpage.)-Flandres (talk) 18:15, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

I asked whether that's the case, I didn't state it ot be the case. It was EK who brought it up. — Godless Raven ^talk_stalk^walk_balk 🌹 18:16, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Can you still not refute that this site is a Mobocracy?-Flandres (talk) 18:17, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ Refute what? Something I didn't state? — Godless Raven ^talk_stalk^walk_balk 🌹 18:18, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

You implicitly said community standards could defy majority will, and thus one user could act on them unilaterally against the wishes of the community.-Flandres (talk) 18:20, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

You don't know the wishes of the community until a vote happens. Which has yet to happen. So nope, you're still wrong. — Godless Raven ^talk_stalk^walk_balk 🌹 18:22, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Let's tally the amount of users who expressed support for you and GC. Notice something?-Flandres (talk) 18:23, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Sure, do a vote. And better: Remove the guidelines. Anarchy rules. Whatever the mob wants to be true shall be true! — Godless Raven ^talk_stalk^walk_balk 🌹 18:25, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Better suggestion: let's roundhouse kick Raven off the site. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 18:38, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

OMG YES LEFTY I LOVE YOU!.-Flandres (talk) 18:39, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

What is an acceptable justification for removing talkpage comments?

Let's not waste time. Either we make a new official policy on removing talk page comments or we wait for the moderators to act on existing policy.--Hastur! (talk) 18:21, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Acceptable: When GC or another holy cow does it. Not acceptable: When I do it. — Godless Raven ^talk_stalk^walk_balk 🌹 18:22, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

it doesnt need clarifying. you can remove trolling. thats what happened here. AMassiveGay (talk) 18:24, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

I didn't do any trolling. — Godless Raven ^talk_stalk^walk_balk 🌹 18:25, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict) May I please get examples of things that are deemed trolling and that ought to be removed? That would help move this along--Hastur! (talk) 18:26, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

The one example you gave above was GC's deletion of a content-free comments on a talk page. Who cares? If you're going to bring a case against someone bring some evidence first. I do not want read through endless repetitive arguments to figure out what if any offenses occurred. The point of the rule of not deleting comments on talk pages is that people should have a right to express their views within reasonable boundaries. If we're talking about trolling, illegal content, nonsense, content-free jibber-jabber, advertising, or even non-missional content, I don't care if it's deleted. Evidence before argument, please! Bongolian (talk) 18:48, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Personally if somebody posts something to my talk page that I consider inane I would argue that the best course of action is to ignore it rather than remove it. If only because removing it will cause trouble. Ignoring it causes nothing. So I'm inclined to say that the path of least drama is the best possible path--Hastur! (talk) 19:37, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

A vote

Is it okay for GC to delete my and EK's talk page comments and thus violate the guidelines?

No

1. — Godless Raven ^talk_stalk^walk_balk 🌹 18:37, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
2. A vote is premature but I have yet to be shown anything that I'd consider worth removing from talk page--Hastur! (talk) 18:44, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Ban Raven

1. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 18:39, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
2. Its about damn time.-Flandres (talk) 18:39, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

   it's not a serious vote fyi we still have to hold a vote in the coop --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 18:40, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

   Oh, sorry.-Flandres (talk) 18:41, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

   that would go for GR's vote also AMassiveGay (talk) 18:43, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

   but still vote just to signal how tired we all are, okay? --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 18:46, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

3. Yes. — Oxyaena ^Harass 19:30, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

If you want to get rid of me and defend a criminal, go to the coop. Ban me there. — Godless Raven ^talk_stalk^walk_balk 🌹 18:44, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

A criminal? Fucking get over yourself you insufferable santorumstain.Coigreach (talk) 19:47, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

1. Great ShabiDOO 19:36, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Note

I have Cooped Raven. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 18:52, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

The trial of the inquisition starts. — Godless Raven ^talk_stalk^walk_balk 🌹 19:05, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

— Oxyaena ^Harass 19:31, 26 June 2020 (UTC)