RationalWiki talk:All things in moderation/Archive77

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This is an archive page, last updated 9 June 2024. Please do not make edits to this page.

Appeal[edit]

Hey, I just wanted to ask if I could appeal to overturn my topic ban and get back my mod powers. I know that I was sanctioned for a good reason, but it’s been a while and I really want to help with categories (I will be careful with making categories and consult other users first for a consensus though). As for the topic of regaining my sysop powers, I believe I can be trusted as I never abused them in the past, nor will I abuse them in the future. As previously I will use my powers responsibly. Rational Dude (talk) 06:27, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

I think the easiest case here is for giving Rational Dude his mop back as to my knowledge, he never did anything that suggests that we can trust him with sysop tools. Regarding categories, I must admit I haven't checked his recent edit history a lot, but I haven't seen any edits being revert, so I assume they haven't been controversial (the quality of the edits is something I can't confirm without a deeper look, and I can't do it right now). Still, I'm a bit a fraid of totally removing the topic ban, so I'd like a more gradual approach. My proposal: give him the mop back and overturn the category top back except for the "fascism" and "fascists" categories, that are probably the most controversial and abused categories. In the future, if the user continues showing improvement, we can give him the right to add these categories too. If not... Well, then we'll have topic ban Dude again and I doubt we'll give him another chance to add categories. GeeJayKWhere all evil dwells Where every lie is true 14:17, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
What GeeJayK said sounds reasonable. Spud (talk) 14:23, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
I agree with this too. Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 17:53, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────I don't have concerns about giving him his mop back, but I do have concerns about removing the category ban, I base this on reviewing the edit history of recently-added pages for living people:

  • Jarosław Kaczyński:[1] Rational Dude added draft categories to the page when it was in draftspace (not a problem per se in my view), then requested @Natsuki Marx to move the page to mainspace. Natsuki Marx did this but did not verify that the categories were substantiated by text and citations in the page, something that's easy to overlook. There were in fact several unsubstantiated categories that I later removed.
  • Enrique Peña Nieto:[2] The same things happened on this page.
  • Nayib Bukele:[3] And again.

Bongolian (talk) 17:58, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

I don't have any disagreements with GeeJayK's proposal (and I'll make sure I verify that the categories in the draft categories template are backed up in the text of the page in future.) (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ Natsuki Marx ♥ (talk) 19:48, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
So am I going to able to get my sysop/mop powers back? As for the fascists category, I will be much more careful using them in the future from now on, but there are some cases where it’s obvious it should be there (like bigoted far right demagogues such as Bjorn Hocke as an example, and pages on alt righters, some of them surprisingly missing the fascists category). Rational Dude (talk) 21:59, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
I'm fine with removing sysoprevoke, but I think the category ban should stay in some form. While I'm fine with loosening it to only cover some of the more problematic categories (like the fascism/Nazi-related ones), I don't think Rational Dude has yet demonstrated that they're ready for a full removal of the topic ban. Plutocow (talk) 23:14, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
Sure, I can wait. Just let me what categories I have to improve on before I’m ready to have my ban revoked. Rational Dude (talk) 23:34, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
Many "alt righters" shouldn't be in Category:Fascists because they're already in Category:Neo-Nazis. There's no need to add a parent category and sub-category to the same article. This isn't a problem limited to contentious categories, eg many of the articles in Category:Physics are also in Category:Science. Christopher (talk) 23:57, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
Well, a lot of those pages have both categories, and they had them long before I even made a ratwiki account. Rational Dude (talk) 00:26, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
I don't think it's the case that you need to improve certain categories, it's that you're adding categories without adding supporting text and citations. This was how you got topic banned in the first place. It's fine not to have supporting text and citations for works in progress (draftspace, sandbox, and subpages of one's homepage) because the implication is that they will get text/citations added before going to mainspace. Bongolian (talk) 01:14, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
Ok then, I’ll work on that. Rational Dude (talk) 02:54, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Also @Natsuki Marx, it seems that you have been doing a lot of moving articles from Draftspace to Mainspace of late. It would be nice you to read through them before doing so, as I'm noticing weirdly worded things in some of the articles:

  • Yoon Suk Yeol: "…are conscripted despite not being conscripted"[4]
  • Kyle Rittenhouse: "A vigilante yes man police officer wannabe who shot up a bunch of people in self-defence, eerily similar to how many police shooters themselves can get away with a crime."[5]

Bongolian (talk) 05:52, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Can do. (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ Natsuki Marx ♥ (talk) 07:54, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
I’ll also use good sources when I make pages and categories, and I’ll have natsu check it first to see if it’s good for mainspace. Rational Dude (talk) 16:58, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Vote[edit]

This vote has been closed. Please do not add, remove or change votes.
The result of this vote was: Mop restored for Rational Dude, unopposed. Topic ban on categories remains.

Status quo[edit]

Yes[edit]
No[edit]
Goat[edit]

Restore mop, retain topic ban[edit]

Yes[edit]
  1. GeeJayK's initial response says it well. —cosmikdebris talk stalk 00:41, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
  2. Bongolian (talk) 00:47, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
  3. Plutocow (talk) 01:03, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
  4. Per GeeJayK's response. Sincerely, Postuhenin the neurodivergent doodlebug! (say hi! ^^) 02:34, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
  5. Seems okay.-- Techpriest (talk) 18:11, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
  6. Sounds about right. Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 19:12, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
  7. (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ Natsuki Marx ♥ (talk) 14:31, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
  8. Like I said, it sounds reasonable to me. Spud (talk) 10:13, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
No[edit]
Goat[edit]
  1. Signalling that I am aware, but are neither personally invested in this or have the bandwidth to really get to a conclusion. KarmaPolice (talk) 15:01, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Restore mop, remove topic ban[edit]

Yes[edit]
No[edit]
Goat[edit]