RationalWiki:Articles for deletion/Mark Meechan

From RationalWiki
Jump to: navigation, search

Mark Meechan | Result: After 2 weeks, it's 9 votes for delete and 9 votes for keep. No consenus. It stays for now and is renamed to Count Dankula.[edit]

This article has been nominated for deletion before. See RationalWiki:Articles for deletion/Mark Meechan 2018.

Mark Meechan (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Delete[edit]

  1. a youtube nomark not needing a page of their own, and what is there is just dross anyways. (dunno why the keep section is pre filled. was there a previous attempt to delete?) AMassiveGay (talk) 12:36, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
    Yes. You need to rename this page to avoid overwriting the last AfD for this article. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 13:16, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
  2. Youtube article. Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 18:21, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
  3. He was still somewhat relevant when the article was nominated before, but everyone’s forgotten about him now. The article in its current form isn’t that great, and I doubt anyone cares about him enough to improve it. There’s no chance we’d have an article on him if it wasn’t for one incident that happened a few years ago now. If the article is kept, I support the move to Count Dankula. Christopher (talk) 19:40, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
  4. Kevlarstar and his dog (Woof!) 08:48, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
  5. This tosser had his 15 minutes of infamy back in 2018. He's not important, relevant or noteworthy anymore. When creating articles about people who are suddenly in the news, ask yourself if anybody will still know or care who they are in two or three years time. Spud (talk) 11:18, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
  6. As others have pointed out, nobody has given a shit about this guy since the short-lived internet shitstorm he cooked up nearly three years ago. We're RationalWiki, not InternetDramaWiki. Also, this article seems to go out of its way to subtly use the tired far-left meme of liberalism enabling fascism; who wrote this, Oxy? --Goatspeed. See what I'm up toCircularREmail2.gifasoningSee what I've been messing around with 19:13, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
  7. He is too cool for RationalWiki. He does not need an article. He has not done anything worth mentioning since the Nazi pug incident. Ultimately, I believe that his article should be removed from the wiki. TAOB (talk) 10:10, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
    There’s rarely a reason to comment stuff out on discussion pages, strikethrough is fine. Christopher (talk) 11:01, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
    This AFD has gotten a bit more intense than most, I must say On second thought I am withdrawing this until further consideration. Social media and video streaming sites are the future of communication. Since politics requires communication, these will become extremely important political mediums. Dismissing these things out of hand as "twitter drama" or "YouTube nobody" still works in certain circumstances of course, hence why I am not moving my vote to keep just yet...but the world has changed. As a tvtropes guy, ever heard of "it will never catch on?"-Flandres (talk) 18:44, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
  8. I don't really see why people care about him that much. He's not really a big deal from what I've seen. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 23:51, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
  9. Notable for teaching his dog anti-semitism?-Hastur! (talk) 19:24, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

Keep[edit]

  1. Keep and rename to Count Dankula (his personal name as the page name feels a bit weird?). He exists in a similar enough sphere as people like Sargon and made headlines a few times over that Nazi dog thing, which made him a gateway into the alt-right. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / Pencil.png / Tux icon.png / Shield.png) 14:41, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
    thye are famous for one thing and that one thing isnt enough for an article. and look at the article we do have - its dogshit AMassiveGay (talk) 19:23, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
    at best they are a footnote in another article AMassiveGay (talk) 19:28, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
  2. Reasons presented don't really persuade me to change vote from last time. This one made the news, is still talked somewhat, plays a role in the whole alt right pipeline speech discussion. At worst, harmless article. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario! 16:54, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
  3. It could use a bit of cleanup and more context added, but appears borderline missional and should be kept. —cosmikdebris talk stalk 18:09, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
    there is no context to add. this is all there is AMassiveGay (talk) 19:29, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
  4. He's still a fairly well-known figure on the online right. Plutocow (talk) 00:24, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
    well known for this one thing, hes done nothing of note before or after this one thing. hes a non entity AMassiveGay (talk) 18:45, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
    His YouTube channel has over 800,000 subscribers, meaning he still has quite a bit of influence. Plutocow (talk) 12:42, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
    so what? whats he done thats noteworthy? also look at the article. look at it. its dogshit. AMassiveGay (talk) 13:11, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
    its litrally just a list of people who like him or dont like him. there is nothing there AMassiveGay (talk) 13:16, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
    These days, YouTube (alongside Facebook) is the main source of radicalization, so it's important that we have articles on these people. He even ran for UKIP, crossing over into the world of politics, and he also got in trouble for posting racist things on a Discord server (https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-48094266). He's clearly worth having an article on, even if it isn't the highest quality at the moment. Plutocow (talk) 13:21, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
    a racist says something racist. on discord no less. theres a turn up for the books. a real shocker. i ask again, whats notable about this prick? AMassiveGay (talk) 14:37, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
    Your argument would be valid for Mister Metokur as it is a dead inactive channel, Count Dankula is a growing and active channel. Going by your logic here, let's delete the articles on Sargon of Akkad, Chris Ray Gun, Shoe0nhead and PragerU (Yes, I know it's a draft) since they are Youtube nobodies channels averaging 500 million subscribers at most. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 16:36, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
    thats complete bullshit and the validity of other article subjects no baring on this case. i again ask whats so notable about this non entity?AMassiveGay (talk) 17:52, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
    and have you actually looked at his content? nothing missional in shit comedy AMassiveGay (talk) 19:09, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
    As mentioned before, he's tried to get into politics. And having over 800,000 subscribers is the opposite of a "non-entity" - he still has a lot of influence. How mainstream something is shouldn't really have a bearing on its missionality - after all, how "mainstream" are people like Mike Adams, Deepak Chopra, Nathan Larson, etc.? Plutocow (talk) 19:56, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
    hes youtube famous - a billion subscribers and hes still a non entity. perhaps you should try to show me why he notable, because a shit comedian isnt. AMassiveGay (talk) 20:19, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
    We cover cranks here, not mainstream stuff, which means that the people we cover won't receive a lot of mainstream attention. NaturalNews, for example, built its following on Facebook, where it had 3.5 million followers; do we delete that article because it's "Facebook famous"? Facebook and Youtube are the main mediums in which cranks build audiences, and as a website that covers cranks, we need to reflect that. It doesn't matter if they're only "Youtube famous", for purposes of missionality, that is enough. Plutocow (talk) 20:24, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
    still not adressing the issue here - whats he done thats notable or missionable? answer that. take a look at his channel. hes a shit probably racist comedian. hes no more notable or missionable than bernard manningAMassiveGay (talk) 21:37, 17 February 2021 (UTC)────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
    #1 He is notable in that he has a lot of subscribers and an active channel as I stated earlier; #2 His article is missional as Plutocow stated earlier and #3 The same could be said about Chris Ray Gun. He is a complete nobody comedian on Youtube with plenty of anti-Feminist takes, so should we delete his RW article too? MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 22:32, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
    And that's not to mention that he had also tried starting a career in politics, something that AMassiveGay has yet to address. Plutocow (talk) 22:34, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
    that career that stalled at the first hurdle? the one already mentioned in the article that merited all of a couple of sentences? an also ran who gained all of 1.8% of the vote? whats to address? thats all there is, and that was on the back of the sole reason we even discussing the prick. i again ask what is notable or missionable about a shit comedian? look at his fucking channel. really, watch it. is it on mission? no it isnt, no matter how many people choose to subscribe. its dross, our article is dross, and we dont need it AMassiveGay (talk) 00:19, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
    We have articles on many perennial candidates, so that's nothing new. Dankula's presence on YouTube extends beyond his own account, he has crossed over with other rightists and had a debate with Vaush not too long ago, showing he is still active in that sphere. And there's also his Twitter account, where he regularly posts on political topics as well. Plutocow (talk) 03:00, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
  5. Move into Count Dankula. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 18:16, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
    Alternatively, we could delete the article for being about YouTube nonsense. Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 19:33, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
    @MarioSuperstar77 We can't merge it into Count Dankula because there isn't a separate article called Count Dankula. That's just a redirect to the Mark Meechan page. And if we had two separate articles about the same person, one using his real name as the title and the other using his YouTube alias, that would be really fucking stupid. Spud (talk) 12:01, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
    Oh yes I forgot it is an impossible task to just delete a redirect and then move over that redirect the article. Hopefully, you can sense the sarcasm here. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 17:05, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
    what for though? so we can delete that page too? AMassiveGay (talk) 18:45, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
    To redirect it there duh, Sirius had the same idea above and he had suggested the exact same thing, except he selected "keep" as opposed to "merge/redirect". MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 19:49, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
    If you want the article to be kept, even if you thing it should be renamed, it's better to vote keep.Plutocow (talk) 12:48, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
  6. Give him the Oswald Mosley treatment. Change the article to point out that he's become irrelevant by now, but once needed to be taken as a somewhat serious joke. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 11:08, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
    Would you change your vote to delete if that didn’t happen? Chances are no one will bother to substantially edit the article after the AfD concludes. Christopher (talk) 11:13, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
    It seems like delete is going to win for now anyway, but if this comes up in couple of months again and there have been no changes have been made in them meantime, sure. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 11:39, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
    I think that sometimes questionably relevant articles need just a little jolt like AfD nomination to get someone interested to make them relevant again. At least if it isn't one of the articles that Kevlarstar nominated for deletion (sorry, I'm petty I know, but he gets on my nerves). Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 11:41, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
    oswald mosley is both notable and missional AMassiveGay (talk) 11:56, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
    That again? You realize that a good portion of articles here either cover internet celibrities (Much like Count Dankula) or subjects that are probably not missional. Look at benedict XVI. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 12:01, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
    the head of the catholic church and protector of paedophiles not missional? you really have no clue AMassiveGay (talk) 12:10, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
    The article mostly consists of hearsay. Literally, this is written in the article: "Papal zeal in protecting paedophiles has fueled rumors about Benedict's own behaviour,[18] though no clear evidence has emerged that the retired pope personally did more than protect perpetrators.". And you have not explained why an article on Chris Ray Gun makes more sense on the wiki than an article on Count Dankula. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 12:18, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
    i dont give a shit about chris ray gun, ive dont even know who the fuck he is. its irrelevant to the case of this article. defend this article on the merits of this article. but obviously you cannot because there is nothing to defend. AMassiveGay (talk) 12:30, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
    In your own words "and have you actually looked at his content? nothing missional in shit comedy" and "hes a non entity", if you didn't resort to a logical fallacy, I wouldn't have to point out your obtuseness here. The issue with this article is that it's a stub and nobody bothered to fill it, but I know for a fact that it can be a good article that is worthwhile for RW if someone bothers to add all the information needed. The article as of now is indefensible, but it does not mean it cannot be improved in the long run. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 13:03, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Where’s the fallacy? I don’t see an issue with either of those statements. The problem is that it’s never going to be improved, nobody cares enough about this guy to make substantive edits to the article even when it’s constantly popping up in recent changes due to this argument. Christopher (talk) 13:06, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
    The logical fallacy here was an appeal to false equivalency and misinformation. #1 He is a shit comedian. (What does that have anything to do with whether he deserves an article or not?) #2 Nobody cares about him. (Despite the fact that he has 800 thousand subscribers, averages 200 thousand views on his videos, was a member of UKIP, made a Nazi Pug ahah joke and casually talks about politics outside Youtube) #3 Therefore, his article is not missional. (In which case you would be wrong) I can accept the fact that this article, by itself, is dogshit and needs to be worked on (Should anyone actually bother to do that, like you said), but his argument is extremely flawed and I will certainly point that out whenever it is necessary. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 13:17, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
    [EC]Most of his content is just shit comedy, which is entirely irrelevant to RW’s mission. He could have 2 million subscribers and still be irrelevant, why should anyone care how many views “Absolute Mad Lads: The Gombe Chimpanzee War” gets? All of the stuff that is somewhat relevant (UKIP etc) happened a few years ago, he’s old news. Again, “needs work” assumes someone is going to work on it; if you knew for a fact that the article wasn’t going to be improved would you still vote keep? Christopher (talk) 13:25, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
    On my own wiki it took me 1 month to get rid of a page that was not improving, so to speak, I give many chances before I actually act. Sure, I would vote delete next time if the article does not improve by then, but right now I'll vote to keep it. Speaking of his Youtube channel, it is not the video themselves that are the problem, it is what Count Dankula could say inside of them. On Twitter he regularly talks about right-wing politics, so I still have my worries about this person. Nevertheless, there is the factor of archival, even if someone is no longer relevant because they died or changed their mind, keeping their article intact should be done for historical purpose. This is what was done with plenty of far-right historical figures from the most obscure (Oswald Mosley) to the most well-known (Adolf Hitler). The only issue I see here, that is not present in the two other articles I mentioned, is the fact that Count Dankula's article is a stub. For example, despite having played a strong role inside the ukip, none of it is mentioned inside the article itself. If an article is a stub I highly encourage anyone who wants to improve it to actually improve it, otherwise, it is not worth keeping. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 13:52, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
    I’m guessing you’re American, Oswald Mosley is far from obscure. He’s in no way comparable to some washed up comedian who “talks about right-wing politics on Twitter”. This is a poor-quality article on some youtuber who sometimes says racist things, and it’ll stay that way unless it’s deleted.
    If your vote swings the AfD to keep in the end (ie it’s close enough that it would’ve been deleted if you voted delete), can we agree that the article can be deleted in a month or two if no substantial improvements have been made? I don’t think anyone will be able to stomach a third AfD. Christopher (talk) 14:03, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
    That assessment is wrong, unfortunately, but I don't live in the UK either where he comes from, so that could explain why my school never taught me about him. I live in France and I am very fluent in French, far more so than English.
    Yes, of course. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 14:18, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
    For what it's worth, I'm not arguing that this Meechan fellow is equally relevant as Moseley was. I'm saying that both became irrelevant. I just feel it's worth documenting even some of the more obscure wingnut blowhards, even if they are not necessarily relevant today. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 16:10, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Oswald Mosley is more relevant today than Count Dankula was when he was actually in the news, despite having been dead for decades. Making a youtube video where a dog does a Nazi salute is not anywhere near comparable to being the face of British fascism. Christopher (talk) 16:15, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
  7. I'm persuaded by the dogged efforts of Plutocow and others. IveBeenFrank (talk) 23:29, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
    have you even looked at his channel? honestly this is a no brainer, i fail to msee why some folk here are so keen to keep this utter fucking drossAMassiveGay (talk) 23:50, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
  8. Unlike the other Youtuber deletion (Metokur), this guy is still popular for his views and has an established presence. He's got more current relevancy to the alt-right/meme-right than, e.g., JonTron, at least. ℕoir LeSable (talk) 16:20, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
    It's funny how you mention Jontron here. Someone tried to nominate his article for deletion earlier this week. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 16:23, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
    That was TAOB, the Goat Sees template guy, it was a joke he got the idea for after seeing this AfD. Not sure what he thought was going to happen. Christopher (talk) 16:27, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
  9. The man is still somewhat relevant and will definitely remain historically relevant. I see no reason to delete.𝔖𝔲𝔪𝔪𝔞 𝔄𝔱𝔥𝔢𝔬𝔩𝔬𝔤𝔦𝔠𝔞 (𝔮𝔲𝔢𝔯𝔢𝔩𝔦𝔰) (𝔰𝔠𝔯𝔦𝔭𝔱𝔲𝔯𝔞) 14:31, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

Merge/redirect[edit]

Goat[edit]

  • I really don't feel strongly about this either way at the moment. I would just like to say that this "man teaches dog to be a Nazi" thing was big news in the UK back in 2018. People who had no interest in YouTube would have heard about it. But I suppose the guy hasn't done anything noteworthy since then and he's been forgotten by the general public now. Spud (talk) 12:09, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
    On reflection, I've decided to vote for delete. Spud (talk)
  • Since people on both sides have agreed to it and I don't see any resistance to the idea, I think it's safe to move the article to Count Dankula for now, although I'll wait a few hours before moving it in case there are any objections. Speaking of, we should probably come to a consensus on when to use a figure's real name or alias as the title of an article when both are publicly known. Plutocow (talk) 18:23, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
    what are you talking about? there is no consensus for that at all. consensus currently is for deletion - the ayes have it 7 to 6. AMassiveGay (talk) 18:27, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
    The vote on deletion is currently too close to call, but as far as I am aware nobody is opposed to the move. Plutocow (talk) 18:29, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
    because we werent voting on that and merge/redirect is currently empty. and 7 to 6 for deletion which i'll likely do tomorrow - 3 days is plenty time for this. AMassiveGay (talk) 18:32, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
    Someone told me to switch from move/merge to keep, so you're wrong there. Additionally, at least 2 more people demanded the same thing to be done. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 18:35, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
    (edit conflict) People are still voting, so I wouldn't end a close vote like this prematurely. Nobody has expressed opposition to the idea, and I said I'd wait a few hours before moving because of that. I also support the move, as maybe the reason the article wasn't thriving was because it was at the name he was less well known as. AMG, assuming the article is kept, would you support the move? Plutocow (talk) 18:38, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
    There are 4-ish people (Including myself) who made the suggestion to rename the article to Count Dankula for simplicity's sake. User:TAOB is a troll, so I don't know if his vote counts, if it doesn't then it becomes a perfect 6-6 tie. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 18:33, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
    [EC]Delete is only (narrowly) winning due to the votes of a troll and someone with a uniquely terrible track record when it comes to AfDs, and I say that as someone who voted delete.
    I’d wait until the AfD concludes to move the page, for one thing it would break some links (the AfD template links to RationalWiki:Articles for deletion/FULLPAGENAME, change the page name and you’d be linking to RW:Articles for deletion/Count Dankula). Easily fixable with redirects, but it’s a lot simpler to just wait a bit. Christopher (talk) 18:38, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
    Just out of curiosity Chris, who is this editor with "a terrible track record"? --Goatspeed. See what I'm up toCircularREmail2.gifasoningSee what I've been messing around with 22:06, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
    I presume he's referring to Kelvarstar Plutocow (talk) 22:09, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
    we dont usually discount votes because of their 'track record'. none of the votes are invalid AMassiveGay (talk) 22:34, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
    Also, even trolls like TAOB get to vote. No other word about it. And the less that is said about Kevlarstar the better.
    I made some pretty bad comparisons up there though, but I feel like we shouldn't delete articles just because those people are by now irrelevant. But we might as well delete the whole Category:Youtube if we want to start deleting articles about insignificant people. None of these blowhards, left or right, are significant. Fucking Carl Benjamin couldn't get more than 3.22% of the vote in the EU parliament elections. They are all fucking irrelevant.
    So maybe we should go the way of Duce and purge all YouTube related articles from RW. Because none of these folks matter. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 23:05, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── I wouldn’t be completely opposed to the idea, something similar has happened before.Christopher (talk) 23:13, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
    I disagree with that. Rairyu put it far better than I could about the relevancy of YouTubers to our mission, so I'll just quote him here: Plutocow (talk) 23:25, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
4. Analysis and criticism of how these subjects are handled in the media. Twitter and YouTube ARE media though. They are the new, social forms of media. You know the way the horse and cart became irrelevant when cars became a thing? Well, newspapers and radio stations are struggling to make ends meet these days, cause they are becoming increasingly less relevant. When we walk down the street, or sit on a bus, how many of the young people are reading a physical version of The Times to get their political opinions? How many of them listen to a conventional radio station to get a news update? None. Zero, nada, zilch. They are all walking around, heads hunched over their screens. The world is different man. See this debate between Buckley and Chomsky? Yeah, no, those fecking days are gone. Kids ain't getting their political opinions, or their current affairs, or their worldviews from shit like the TV. This is gonna sound dumb, but gamer bros like this Destiny kid are the equivalents of political analysts - and it will only get worse when the next crop of kids grow older. You know I talked to like, a seven year old boy not that long ago, and I swear to you the lad was a walking internet meme. Every damn joke he made was a reference to some video game I never heard of. I got my phone when I was 14, a shitty nokia flip phone. This kid got his dad's smartphone at FIVE! Ya reckon our younger user base knows who the fuck Rush Limbaugh is? Their parents do. But we are on the internet Cosmik. We too are a new type of media, and our readers ain't the Chomsky/Buckley generation. They are the YouTube/Twitter drama generation. By the God's man, the President of the United State TWEETS whenever he feels like it. Twitter drama is the new norm. (Yes I know. Let that shit sink in man. It hit me fucking hard. It hits me every time the newsreader opens with "Donald Trump did a stupid on the internet again!"). If Elon Musk's Twitter drama has an effect on the stock market, we can't hand wave it away as irrelevant. This bullshit affects the real world around us. The Christchurch shooter was radicalized online through this edgy online gamer bollox. Of course it's relevant.
Rairyu75
thats all dogshit though isnt it. we are not talking about elon musk or donald trump we are talking a prick who made his dog do a nazi salute for shits and giggles. for fucks sake get some fucking perspective AMassiveGay (talk) 23:54, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
I have tremendous respect for @Rairyu75 as an editor, so I'd like to hear if he has any thoughts on this. Or on being quotemined for this. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 00:02, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
  • Meechan's main activities online consist of being yet another Sargon ripoff. He's not really that notable even in terms of YouTube personalities. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 22:39, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
    I almost feel like I’m evangelising here, but is that enough to make you vote delete? The vote’s still pretty close, and it sounds like you don’t think he’s worth an article. Christopher (talk) 22:44, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
    There's still a significant amount voting for keep, though. Even if he's similar to Sargon, he's still pretty influential, especially considering that Sargon has been banned from several major platforms while Dankula has not. Plutocow (talk) 22:54, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
  • Based on a far from thorough scroll through the old archives, this looks like it’s the biggest AfD in RationalWiki history by far. Ironic given one of the main arguments for deletion is how nobody cares about this guy. Christopher (talk) 23:13, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
  • I remain opposed to the "MISSION DRIFT! DESTROY ALL YOUTUBE ARTCILES" shrieking that is perennially vomited forth whenever a mildly intense argument over a YouTube article happens. That being said, I believe we should judge them all on a case by case basis. Some of these people are not that influential(not saying all of them are not though).-Flandres (talk) 23:30, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
  • I still reiterate, what's the harm keeping this? We have an article of someone who's missional but little influence besides a stunt. The article is short. The article can stay short, a side-note. That's not an issue, unless we make it one, is it? We have articles already on a lot of small one-note figures that didn't even get as much attention as this one. Why single this one out? --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario! 02:19, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
    because i stumbled across this one a short while ago and it far from impressed me. i dont have the tolerance for complete and utter worthless shite that others appear to have. i tell you what, if its decided to keep this wank, i'll edit it and clean it up and remove all the dross. then we can all bask in the short paragraph of an article that will remain and pat ourselves on back for keeping the bar for quality way below mediocre AMassiveGay (talk) 19:22, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
    The harm is that it’s a terrible article. In the grand scheme of things that’s not much, but it’s not like there’s any good whatsoever to balance it out. It’s completely pointless. Christopher (talk) 19:26, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
    i was more than surprised at the push back when i put it up for afd. there is zero redeeming features at all form this article. no accounting for (really fucking awful, pitifuly dreadful) taste it seems AMassiveGay (talk) 19:31, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
    @AMassiveGay You had not a single convincing argument for the article's deletion, so don't be surprised if there's a push back when all your argument comes down to is "whAt Is MiSSIoNaL iN sHiT cOMEdY?!?!!11!". You said earlier that you were gonna "Clean up the dross", then go ahead go fix this shitty stub so it is no longer a shitty stub. Mind you, I had the exact same thing planned for when the AfD concludes, you are doing me a huge favor here. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 00:17, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
    calm down you mad hoe. Oh and btw, Learn some english too, it's "You did not have a", not "You had not a" or go back speaking French, at least Google Translate would do its job lol. TAOB (talk) 00:50, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
    TAOB, that isn't appropriate. Don't do it again. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 00:53, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
    because i am skint and london is currently in lockdown with nothing better to do, so i can bless you with my response to you points where you have thoroughly missed he the point by a country mile, while seemingly oblivious to how threadbare your own case actually is.
i'll start by going over my case again, just in case you havent quite grasped it yet.
  1. take a look at the article itself. its dross. its utter shit. there is nothing here thats is good. the article itelf is my 'evidence' for this. its patently obvious its of a low low calibre, regardless of the merits of the subject.
  2. as has been noted no one is likely to remedy this. you've very much missed the point of my volunteering to 'edit it and clean it up and remove all the dross'. the point i was making is that it will leave an article of less than stub because there is nothing, nothing at all worth documenting about him. 'he was convicted of breaching the communications act 2003 and fined £800 for a youtube of his dog doing nazi salutes. he later failed to be elected as an MEP standing for UKIP, gaining 1.8% of the vote. he was apparently a bit racist on a private discord.' there you go the entire article right there. you are welcome.
  3. on the merits of meechan as a subject for an article in the first, you are correct when you say my argument comes down to 'whAt Is MiSSIoNaL iN sHiT cOMEdY?'. thats the whole fucking point. look at his fucking channel. it is a channel of shit comedy. yell tell again why we need a article for a shit racist comedian. ive yet to hear why beyond hes got lots of subs. whoop de doo. subscribers to to a shit comedian. what is it about his channel that merits us to be interested in it? ive yet to see why beyond 'hes got lots of subs'. ive yet to se evidence of his apparent influence beyond his gots lots of subs.
which brings us to the case made to keep.
  1. hes got lots of subs.
  2. we have other articles on on youtube nomarks
  3. youtube is very popular with alt right fuckwits
you will note that only one of those three points relate to meechan. you will note that there is no reference to anything on his dogshit channel to suggest a reason why he is a candidate for an article, there is no reference to anything that might suggest his supposed influence, no reference to any discourse or interactions hes had that might be relevant, no reference to interactions with others who might make him interesting (not even refernce to once sharing a platform with tommy robinson, which would have ben a point in your favour and is even in the article - did you read it?). nothing to show this influence that he apparently has. if there were, i might concede the point but all we have is his shit comedy has lotsa of subs and we have other articles on youtube pricks. im sure many of those subs are probably right wing pricks and varying degrees. but comedians some right wingers like isnt really of much interest.
so let me reiterate my case now that made it clearer for you.
  1. its a shit article and whAt Is MiSSIoNaL iN sHiT cOMEdY?
if i sound exasperated its because it should be patently obvious to anyone its a shit article and whAt Is MiSSIoNaL iN sHiT cOMEdY?AMassiveGay (talk) 01:32, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
1.8% of the vote is the all the influence shown, and most of that is probably UKIP (and turn out for european elections never been exactly spectacular in the uk) AMassiveGay (talk) 01:53, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
this is why i dont bother editting mainspace. its like pulling teeth to remove even the most pointless worthless dogshit drivel when its defended to the death with dogshit argument AMassiveGay (talk) 15:33, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
Why did you sign up in the first place if you don't want to contribute on the Wiki due to opposing opinions? What keeps you around? MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 16:08, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
Now, now, there are plenty of things to do on this site other than editing mainspace. Also, may I politely suggest some of you step back from this discussion for a bit? we don't want an AfD to reach the invective level of a Coop Case or something.-Flandres (talk) 16:12, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
evidence for supposed influence yet to be presented. AMassiveGay (talk) 18:32, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
No quorum on this afd suggests to me that the case you're presenting isn't perhaps quite clear cut as you expected. I'll try to ask, try to self-reflect why this was a no quorum and not Metokur or whitehonor. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario! 00:09, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
Probably because there was a wee bit of influence, it isn't all shit. However, it's almost a "one off" that relates little to his current Youtube content, which currently seems to consist of videos on various unsavory characters. Relevant content as I see it would be:
A) The "Pug gives Nazi salute" incident. Yes, a one off, but it seems like it is frequently used as an incident to debate and analyze hate speech laws.
B) His UKIP shenanigans, which already are mentioned in the UKIP article as much as they need to be.
It's point A that to me makes this guy relevant. Meaning, it's less about him, and more about what the incident reveals about the balance between free speech and hate crime laws. It's pretty clear this guy is more of an edgelord alt-right humorist who was doing it for the lulz. Going "OMG hate speech!Fines!Arrests!" over dumb edgelord humor probably is going way too far to be honest. On the other hand, it is possible to LOLEedgelord your way into storming the US capitol and kill police officers etc. A balance needs to be struck as is the case for most things. (That includes not just hate speech laws, but also some Youtubers who don't seem to recognize that going too far on your edgelordom has consequences, as I'm sure edgelords like Baked Alaska will find out soon.)
I'm a meek (non-voting, don't care *that* much) "keep" as a result. But honestly, if kept, the article needs to be worked more into focusing on the hate speech debate impact, given that his shit on Youtube really doesn't generally qualify. Or maybe this incident could be worked into the "hate speech" page. PanGalacticGargleBlaster (talk) 03:14, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
(As an aside I'll add that his Twitter feed is very Trumpy, though. I dig how the guy famous for a joke involving "gas the Jews" has a problem with liberals piss on Limbaugh's grave. LOL Dankula, don't you see? It's "just a joke", you fuckin' snowflake, tee hee.) PanGalacticGargleBlaster (talk) 03:49, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
That was one thing I was getting at, he is very influential since he has a large following, not as large as Trump, but large enough that if he wanted he could start another insurrection. I will add that it is irrelevant what kind of content he makes on his Youtube channel and I don't understand why that is even an argument since he could still attempt to radicalize people and that'd be certainly easy for him. The only reason this article could be worth deleting is the fact that it is a stub and (if) nobody wants to improve it, otherwise, it should be kept. @LeftyGreenMario Metokur is inactive and off to Bitchute where he barely gets 10 thousand views and whitehonor's article was a stub on a dead website that I personally never heard of before. Count Dankula does not meet any of the criteria previously mentioned, save for having a shitty stub article, he is not dead, he has a large following and many people know him thanks to his pug video and his participation in UKIP, therefore, he is influential. His opinions on politics clearly didn't change either since his Twitter account speaks for itself. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 17:42, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
PanGalacticGargleBlaster, I agree. While the article can use some expansion for analysis for hate speech laws as well as UKIP shenanigans, I also don't think short means "bad" so if our goal is to get an article with around 3-5 good paragraphs, a summary of what he did + commentary about the aftermath, legacy, and increasing right-wing radicalization that exploits free speech, it's not a hefty goal. It's doable. I can see the article being around It's Okay to Be White size (which it currently is; it's not a stub). If it's complete and substantial enough, it's fine, doesn't matter to me if it's short. MarioSuperstar77, there is a big difference between stub and short btw; stub always meant to me that an article is extremely short (i.e. two-three sentences), has potential for expansion, etc; short articles mean they're complete and not extremely short like a stub is). --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario! 19:30, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
'if he wanted he could start another insurrection'
'since he could still attempt to radicalize people and that'd be certainly easy for him'.
he has a lot of subscribers. how have they been influenced? 'if he wanted' 'he could still attempt' could he really though? would he really want to? theres no indication he would or could do any such thing. not every person subscribed to channel is not going to do anything on his say so. its not clear what his say so would even concern. its not clear at all what impact he has had on his subscribers all. what you suggest he could do is neither nor there. there is nothing here.
his twitter account doesnt really speak for itself either. its twitter. a twat magnifier. hes posts are very...meh. the reactions to them are very meh. doesnt appear to having much impact. doesnt appear to driving political opinion there is nothing there. this afd is the high water mark of his influence.
hes impact from the thing that brought he attention in the first place neglible. its a footnote for a different page. he did a thing. he got fined. a mixed bag of celebs came out for or against him with nothing particularly interestingly. vague murmerings of chilling effects and slippery slopes. the celebs had nothing more to say after their initial quotes. he went to a far right rally were tommy robinson and other shitbags complained about twitter being poopy heads and various news sources said of meechan 'was also on the bill'.
and that ukip candidacy. this is the ukip post brext. post farage even. very much the twilight of its relevence and influence. ukip made the same mistake of thinking youtube subcribers was in and of itself influence. thought alt right tubers would bring out the youth vote. ukip were wiped out. meechan barely registered 1.8% of the vote. even sargon got more votes than meechan. sargon even had people leave the party for the brexit party in disgust. and meechan...was also there. hes not even that relevent in ukip. hes not even in ukip anymore. there is nothing here. there never has been. it was all the usual bluster we get when something happens on internet and free speech somehow in peril - regurgitate inane cannards detached from real life not applicible to he internet, and try to pretend they arnt defending racist abuse. meechans own defence of free speech is itself shallow and vacuous, while his free speech defence in court was it went on youtube by 'accident'. he lost then he lost the appeal and this is the most interest hes generated since. hes a footnote for some other page. — Unsigned, by: AMassiveGay / talk / contribs 20:49, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
going to ask once again what influence this gobshite has because it keeps being asserted as significant but little explanation of in what way he is influential. i dont want hear that hes got some subscribers on youtube. that is not enough. what is the nature of his influence? what effects has this had? something, anything at all? but we still have nothing. AMassiveGay (talk) 13:59, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
He and his alt-right friends have had enough influence to propel far-right dogma through the internet. The UK is very far-left, so UKIP was doomed to fail either way (Also Trump would have never been elected if he lived in the United Kingdoms), so that is why his influence seems insignificant, but it is not hard to look up all the damage he has done. CD's comedy is fucking dangerous, also related: 1 2 3 4 5. If that does not convince you, what will? It is partly thanks to internet far-right pushers like Count Dankula that Trump was elected in the United States. Do not underestimat e them. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 14:14, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
the thing with all those articles even the one article meechan is actually mentioned, meechan is unimportant. hes only in that article because he was in the headlines that day. far right extremism is a problem. radicalisation is thing. social media is one area where its tendrils likes draw in the vulnerable. i am well aware of its insidious threat. but you misunderstand meechans role in it all. hes not significant on his own. few of the these youtube cunts are. hes background noise. hes jus one of many contributing to the low hum of racism and misogyny and everything else on your alt right fuck heads bingo card. simmering in the background ready to boil over to exercise the trolls over whatever issue currently the frnt line. there are dozens of them. im not sure how hes especially far right. im not even sure of his exact politics. hes not even particularly significant amongst this low hum. when shared a platform at a far right protest or stood as a ukip mep, he was dwarfed in significance by the tommy robinsons and the sargons. and thats for uk politics (which is not by any means far left. trump 'could' have been elected in the uk. the prime minister is not the same as president. party and consensus are more important than the individual candidates. a safe seat would be all thats needed and trump would have been a tory mp. hes more ukip than tory though and he wouldnt have done shit with them) globally, or the us specifically, i doubt hes significant at all. free speech angle doesnt travel well from a country with no formal constitution but has hate crime laws in the books to a country where free speech debates start and end with 1st amendment rights.
it really had no impact in the uk either. in the uk hes not the one waving the banner with his name on it that all the little fucknut foot soldiers can follow and rally behind. hes at best one those foot soldiers. in the us hes not even that. we cannot link him to trump. we cannot link him to terrorist mass murders. directly or indirectly. there are plenty of people we can do that with. who have implicitly or explicitly promoted some awful shit. even for them, its just one part of the mix. elected politicians and the likes of the daily mail tabloid shit, just as big a factor in the febrile athmosphere that saw an mp murdered. with social media as a factor wsnt the meechans or sargons that were important in the nmass shootings in new zealand or elsewhere. it was the likes of 4chan where bubbles of self reinforcing hate sealed the radiclalisation of individuals. if we could link him to any of that he'd likely been booted of twitter by now. like sargon or hopkins or dozens of others.
he hasnt because his twitter feed is dross. hes been unable to generate the tabloid outrage that twitter and youtubers have to keep their brand alive. his content isnt as incendiary. not sure he even wants it to be. its not that interesting either, for far right propaganda or as wank banter. hes a bit of the low nackground hum. hes had his day in the sun. and that was all empty bluster with no lasting impact at all.
meechan isnt the Far right. hes one bloke. its not underestimating extremism if we ignore an insignifcant cog. part of the low hum. and not a significant part of that. the risk isnt underestimating the far right. the risk is we magnify what should be inconsequential and quickly forgotten, instead shining a light and broadcasting their shit to more people than would have naturally been exposed. over stating their threat they pose, building them up to be somthing more, we do the far rights work for them. AMassiveGay (talk)
  • What happens if an AfD is tied?-Flandres (talk) 02:29, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
    Nothing. Ideally some goats will choose to break the tie-Hastur! (talk) 03:15, 24 February 2021 (U
    It'll close as No Consensus, which is rare but does happen. And then, sometime, a third AfD will start up... Avida Dollarsher again 18:30, 26 February 2021 (UTC)