RationalWiki talk:What is going on in the world?/Archive19

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Freedom to criticise[edit]

Tory candidate quits over homophobic and anti-Islamic tweets. It wasn't reasonable to generalise from four possible Muslim rapists (they haven't been convicted) and call the whole religion a religion of rape. Was that sufficient reason to make him resign? Was calling Islam evil and homosexuality an abomination sufficient reason to expel another person from UKIP? Are UK political parties too ready to yield to hypersensitive pressure groups? I decided to ask how I feel about the Christian lobby generalising from allegations against Micvhael Shermer and Ben Radford, elevatorgate and the like to suggest that all the godless are immoral and cursed by God. It's been done. I think I call Robert Stacy McCain's article a silly case of free speech. Still I would be less likely to vote for a political party that has representatives like R McCain and more likely to campaign against that party. Please comment. Proxima Centauri (talk) 06:37, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

You have the freedom to say bigoted shit, your political party has the freedom to dump your ass in order to minimize the damage done to their electoral chances. --A Real Libertarian (talk) 06:56, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
Is it that difficult to read the discussion above about Sterling? Osaka Sun (talk) 07:03, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
Donald Sterling looks like a hypocrite, he gave money to organizations that promote black sport openly and discriminated against blacks less publicly. I don't think he deserved any honor. Proxima Centauri (talk) 07:53, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
I dont understand the point prox is trying to make--Mikal | lakiM 07:14, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
I wanted to discuss how far we should pressure politicians eg to resign over what they say and if this threatens free speech. The consensus seems to be that it doesn't threaten free speech. Proxima Centauri (talk) 07:53, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

What do you do in this situation?[edit]

What do you do if you like the article to which a WIGO links, but not what the poster says about it? MESSIAH OF DOOM Fuck all you gun-toting hip gangster wanna-besDolan.png 10:29, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Go out and take a walk. TeenageWasteland (talk) 14:16, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
Rewrite the crappy writeup. SophieWilderModerator 14:20, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
+1. Unless it's a writeup by me, of course, in which case anyone who doesn't like it is wrong - David Gerard (talk) 14:24, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
Oh, okay. I didn't know you were allowed to do that. Thanks. MESSIAH OF DOOM Fuck all you gun-toting hip gangster wanna-besDolan.png 03:36, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

The male rape thing[edit]

What is "All together now... But What About Teh Menz!!1!11!" supposed to convey? I couldn't figure it out, so I voted neutral.--ZooGuard (talk) 10:31, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

I believe that it refers to common MRA arguments about rape and stuff- although, in this case, it's obviously a flawed application, as we're talking real, statistically proven social issues. MESSIAH OF DOOM Fuck all you gun-toting hip gangster wanna-besDolan.png 10:39, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
It's supported to point out the irony of this issue being raised before, but the people who do that just get get branded MRA!!11!1 and ignored. --A Real Libertarian (talk) 10:50, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
Shitstains on the bowels of human idiocy. In fact, my Oxford Dictionary defines rapist as a man who commits rape.--Madman (talk) 20:10, 4 May 2014 (UTC)The Madman
What? MESSIAH OF DOOM Fuck all you gun-toting hip gangster wanna-besDolan.png 20:49, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
I was making a point about some of the more...radical feminists in the world.--Madman (talk) 22:18, 4 May 2014 (UTC)The Madman

Crimean referendum[edit]

According to the comments on the column, the 15% might be referring to the Crimean Tatars, not the Crimean people as a whole. Plus the guy writing it is apparently not very honest. --A Real Libertarian (talk) 03:43, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

China is preparing for a potential toppling of Kim Jong-un.[edit]

Of course they are. As is SK and the USA, in all likelihood. That's part of what countries do -- draw up plans for foreseeable future crises. It would be totally irresponsible of any state bordering an unstable or totalitarian state to not have a plan to deal with what could very well happen on short notice. TeenageWasteland (talk) 18:53, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

For sure. The reason it's newsworthy is the timing of the leak. Osaka Sun (talk) 19:02, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
Not convinced even of that. Everyone has a contingency plan for everything - David Gerard (talk) 11:30, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
It would surprise me if they didn't have such a plan. - Smerdis of Tlön (talk) 16:35, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Zach Phelps[edit]

I just read the one about the WBC guy. Holy fuck, that is amazing. Anyway, not adding anything important here, just felt like saying that. MESSIAH OF DOOM Fuck all you gun-toting hip gangster wanna-besDolan.png 07:10, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

"Killer Robots" or how the U.N is interfering in science, part 10020.[edit]

I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure this isn't going to end well.--Madman (talk) 08:54, 12 May 2014 (UTC)The Madman

This may just be the BSG nerd in me, but I honestly find the whole thing terrifying. I mean, obviously there's the ethical implications and whatnot- but they're fucking cylons, man! And, I mean, how do you programme a robot to understand whom to kill and not kill? Unless remote controls, but that defeats the whole purpose. So, in conclusion, while that's sorta badass, if we do it, they will become self-aware, start a really long war, run away for a while, then nuke the twelve colonies, forcing the few survivors to search for a mythical planet called Earth. (Also, cool TV shows keep happening IRL- first it was Lost with the MH370, and now this!) MESSIAH OF DOOM Fuck all you gun-toting hip gangster wanna-besDolan.png 11:10, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
That's what the kill switch is for. Frederick♠♣♥♦ 17:00, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
It's OK, they'll be programmed with the Three Laws. And Genuine People Personalities. SophieWilderModerator 17:12, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
Except, by definition, killer robots are already violating the first law, so that doesn't really work. MESSIAH OF DOOM Fuck all you gun-toting hip gangster wanna-besDolan.png 21:33, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
Just tell 'em their targets are other robots. SophieWilderModerator 10:54, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
Apart from ethical, moral and logical issues, I guess that's a good solution. To be honest, I'd be totally cool with the whole thing if it was just robots vs. robots. That would be fucking awesome. MESSIAH OF DOOM Fuck all you gun-toting hip gangster wanna-besDolan.png 12:08, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
Or, instead, program them with the three laws of thermodynamics, so they can argue with creationists. SophieWilderModerator 16:00, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
Are you willing to contribute to the MIRI now? The world needs a Friendly AI! :D--ZooGuard (talk) 19:04, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

The Lesbians and the Exorcist[edit]

It's a good item, but it leaves the punch line on the cutting room floor. “...once you hear a Satanic growl, you never forget it. It’s like smelling Margherita pizza for the first time." Whoover (talk) 06:19, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

"The FCC gets a taste of its own medicine—their service provider throttles their Internet to 1994 speed."[edit]

Not according to the linked article. 203.166.17.100 (talk) 05:50, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

Neocities are a barely notable web hosting company, who are doing this for the publicity. Pretty good publicity, too - David Gerard (talk) 08:22, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

Japan wants to get military, part umpteen[edit]

This reminds me, we should probably have an article on Shintaro Ishihara(wp). Or Ishihara Shinto, however you want to order it. Right-wing former governor of Tokyo, he's made some... interesting comments about foreigners immigrating to Japan (especially those who entered the country illegally), is an ardent denier of the Rape of Nanjing, and had the sheer balls to claim that a Tokyo 2016 Summer Olympics would be the "greenest ever" while proposing to raze a nearby satoyama, the conservation of which has been kind of a big deal in recent years, responding to criticism by saying that the mountain in question "eats children". The big whopper: Advocating that Japan become a nuclear superpower, never mind that the irony meter overloads from such a statement would be enough to blow both China and North Korea to bits. There is also much goat to be had with the Tokyo "virtual youth" laws that were enacted when he was governor, which the bottom half of the Internet quickly interpreted as a ban on anime in general leading to "I-shit-hara" whining for all. (What that says about the aforementioned bottom half of the Internet, changing social norms in the face of globalization, overreach in the name of "protecting children" and goats is an exercise for the reader.)

I'd put it on the to-do list, but then, I'm just a BoN. 50.29.205.252 (talk) 13:43, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Why not just write it and see how it floats? SophieWilderModerator 21:49, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
It isn't just Ishitara. The Liberal Democratic Party has become strikingly nationalist since Abe won election in 2012. Osaka Sun (talk) 22:07, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Operation American Spring[edit]

Truly fantastic. The live UStream is brilliant. Twitter #OperationAmericanSpring is brilliant. Attendance is brilliant - not the 30 million predicted, nor 10 million, maybe 50 though. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. DogP (talk) 21:38, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

"Buddhist fundamentalism"[edit]

I mean, what. By Dawkins' arse, people are such dicks - David Gerard (talk) 21:03, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

In the case of Buddhists being dicks, I'druther go with "militant" instead of "fundamentalist." The founding member of that group, the Buddha himself, famously tailored his message to the audience, using what is called upaya (skilled methods) to address the immediate karmic state of any given interlocutor. In a similar vein, the Society of Friends (a.k.a. Quakers) have a meme that goes something like "that speaks to my condition."
So, I ask, where are the fundamentals? There is Revised Standard Version of the Christian Bible on my shelf that fits in an octavo volume of about three hundred pages, or 150 leaves. I think the Koran is smaller. The basic scriptures of Buddhism are far bulkier, with one version of an early collection, the Pāli CanonWikipedia, occupying four or five dozen volumes.
If the fundamental tenet of Christianity may be stated as "love thy neighbor as thyself," (see the "did I fucking stutter" Jesus meme) then Buddhist canon may be distilled as "you are not who you think you are; things come into being, and go out of being, depending on other things." In both cases, accurate realization leads to compassion. Anyone indulging in "compassionate violence" still has a lot to learn. Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 16:50, 18 May 2014 (UTC)
If I'm reading you correctly, you may be in danger of veering into No True Scotsman territory. Which is a problem for me, as I agree with you on the Christianity thing (you could fill four or five dozen volumes on what I don't know about Buddhism, so I can't comment on that...) Father Vivian O'Blivion (talk) 17:16, 18 May 2014 (UTC) Father Vivian O'Blivion (talk) 17:16, 18 May 2014 (UTC)
One of my great-grandpas was born and raised in the western highlands, and was a true Scotsman before emigrating to Ontario. As for the rest, call me an American mutt and I won't be offended. I have reliable hearsay evidence that no true Scot would play the great pipes on the Lord's day. Not sure about granting an exception for Amazing Grace at a funeral...
All I was trying to say is that the word "fundamentalist" has outgrown its etymological roots. Beyond that, I think we can agree that anyone carrying the label of a fundamentalist, accurately or not, is likely to display dickish tendencies. What the world needs now is less of that. Whether the purported offenders adhere to the fundamentals of their creed is a different thing entirely. Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 17:33, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Pamela Gellar and "Jew-hatred" in the Quran[edit]

The Bible has its fair share of "Jew-hatred" too.

"For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate."

Titus 1:10-16, KJV

Frederick♠♣♥♦ 03:16, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

All this really tells me is that both the Bible and the Quran are shit, which I've known already for years. The One They Call Mars (talk) 15:47, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Drag Queen(s) arent that uncommon in Eurovision Song Contest.[edit]

Russian politician seems to forgot about sweeping wp:Verka Serduchka (ok, he's from Ukraine, but still) under the rug. [[User:K61824|]][[User_talk:K61824|]] 01:07, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

forget drag queens, have they forgotten Dana international? AMassiveGay (talk) 15:16, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
What happened at Eurovision was terrible. Not because of the vote, but because of the booing of the Russian entry. Where did they know their opinion on the issue? It’s not a good idea to fuel up tension and to politicize a song contest, especially in this international climate.
Human rights activists and organizations in Russia have been labeled as "traitors", "foreign agents" and so on, for years. And now they are between a rock and a hard place - the question is more and more framed as "a foreign assault" on Russia. Pro-Russian and anti-western narrative now is filled with guilt by association arguments - so they now call them "fascist".
So if you like to stick it up to Putin or to troll Russians on the Ukraine problem, please leave the human rights issue out of it and don’t use minorities as a tool. Because for us Russia may be only in the news, but those who work and live there, and try to improve the human rights situation suffer the consequences.— Unsigned, by: 96.44.189.102 / talk / contribs 13:03, 20 May 2014‎ (UTC)
the booing of the Russian act, though unpleasant for the act who weren't really at fault, was inevitable and as much to with Russia's treatment lgbt people as it was Ukraine. You seem to be forgetting that Eurovision is VERY popular with gays. I don't really understand your point about leaving out human rights. It is a human rights issue and silence on these issues is the same as acceptance of theses abuses. AMassiveGay (talk) 15:01, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
I don't see how it is inevitable to sanction someone for something they didn't do.
I'm not talking about "silence", I am talking about not making it part of the Ukraine issue. Song contests come and go, but such conflicts leave scars for generations. Human rights activists should be able to work without being dragged into conflicts with "usORthem" rhetoric which can only be harmful.

The "right to disappear" and censorship[edit]

The issue here is not as black and white as the WIGO entry paints it. It goes beyond just "your privacy vs. Big Data." There is a real debate here between privacy advocates and anti-censorship advocates on the balance between the enabling people to keep their data private and making sure people can't whitewash freely available information. (Remember that what you say is irrelevant may not be irrelevant to others.) For example, Wikipedia co-founder and pro-internet freedom/anti-censorship advocate Jimmy Wales also criticized the ruling. The One They Call Mars (talk) 16:11, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

It already happened to Wikipedia a couple years back. The German edition was forced by a court to remove data regarding the murder of a German actor, because his killers demanded they be forgotten. It might be acceptable if you wanted to remove a Photoshopped image that was compromising to your job, but removing evidence of a crime sounds like a PR wet dream.-- 194.81.33.57 (talk) 16:44, 18 May 2014 (UTC)
No, that didn't happen. The court realised it couldn't force Wikipedia to remove it; WMDE doesn't actually run the site. The information is absent from German Wikipedia because they thought that was the right editorial decision; it remains on the English Wikipedia - David Gerard (talk) 13:51, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
are you suggesting that cracked isn't a reputable source? I am shocked AMassiveGay (talk) 18:50, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Poor John E. Jones III...[edit]

Another culture war issue dropped right into his lap. I wonder if he regrets accepting Bush's appointment. --TheLateGatsby (The end of the dock ) 03:44, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

Misogyny + guns = unspeakable horror.[edit]

The pre-online-MRA version of this. Woke up today with the radio playing the news and was immediately brought back to the single worst moment in my own beloved city's history. Not feeling very hopeful for the future right now. Father Vivian O'Blivion (talk) 16:57, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Don't jump to conclusions. Early reports and leads are not necessarily true.
I'm betting the "false flag" scum are already all over this one. :( --ZooGuard (talk) 17:11, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
Ugh. And three shot at the Jewish Museum in Brussels. SophieWilderModerator 17:48, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

The video Elliot Rodger posted before the killings is pretty conclusive about his motivations. WėąṣėḷőįďWeaselly.jpgMethinks it is a Weasel 11:42, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Of course the MRAs showed up at the RW FB and were going "NOT ALL MRAs" and "YOU WOULDN'T SAY THIS ABOUT VIDEO GAMERS" and etc. Fortunately, fascism is the order of the day on RW FB - David Gerard (talk) 11:51, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

It seems Rodgers also wrote a 140-page autobiography/manifesto. The last few pages contain some very disturbing fantasies not only about his massacre plans but also his ideals of a society in which women are confined to concentration camps and breeding laboratories. ЩєазєюіδWeaselly.jpgMethinks it is a Weasel 12:10, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

I just finished reading the whole thing, and....jesus fuck the guy was a fucked up piece of shit. I have never read such a narcissistic, entitled, and self pitying collection of rants in my life, and I have delved the murkiest depths of stormfront, love-shy.com and fstdt.
The guy was not just an utterly disgusting and obsessive misogynist of the "all women are mandated to fuck me because I am a perfect rich magnificent gentleman" (as he liked to say over and over again) breed, but a full on racist and classist, not to mention the fact he despised literally all men for either liking (and more importantly being liked by) women or just not sharing his hatred and bigotry.
What makes it all the more nauseating is how he spends 140 pages whining about how terrible his life is while describing in loving detail the frankly obscene level of opulence and luxury he has been pampered with since birth, and how clear he makes it that he expected to aquire any woman he wanted as easily as he would any other luxury item he wanted. Judge HoldenThe Judge Smiles 12:54, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
A shooting with similar motives happened in 2009, too. I really don't see sexual frustration as a good motive for killing (not that I find any motive for killing to be "good." It's just that on a scale of motives ranging from "mad over losing at a video game" to self-defense, celibacy ranks pretty low). I find it troubling. But if you live in a society where such deadly technology exists, I suppose these are just the consequences.--"Shut up, Brx." 13:23, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
Its sexual frustration plus an astonishingly self centred sense of entitlement which makes people like this think murdering innocent people is "fair payback" for the bruise sexual frustration deals to their ego. In the manifesto he makes it clear how utterly easy it was to get a gun from the local gun store years before the killings since it was just paperwork and a waiting period. im not even sure there was a background check involved. Judge HoldenThe Judge Smiles 13:36, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
Yes, your head has to be pretty far up your ass to justify murder because you can't get laid.--"Shut up, Brx." 13:40, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
Well, obviously none of these spree killers have "a good motive for killing". WèàšèìòìďWeaselly.jpgMethinks it is a Weasel 19:37, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Nothing is ever a good reason for mass murder, but sex resentments are a major motive for some of them, whether we want to accept it or not. I wonder why we don't see this in Europe where they have a lot more sex? Perhaps sex resentments would be easier to cope with if prostitution were legal? ConservapediaEditor (talk) 21:53, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Commercialization is the perfect solution to men thinking they are entitled to sex with women. Becuse, obvioulsy, the problem can't be men think that they are entitled to sex with women. Father Vivian O'Blivion (talk) 22:16, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
Saying that men think they're entitled to sex with women is a very naïve and simplistic explanation of what happened and does nothing to prevent these types of senseless crimes from happening again. No one is saying that we force women to have sex with men who they don't desire, but sex is a need for both genders that has to be fulfilled. Prostitution can fill this need for some men, and perhaps prevent these individuals from snapping and committing mass murder. ConservapediaEditor (talk) 22:23, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
Prostitution isn't going to stop people from behaving like assholes--"Shut up, Brx." 22:25, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
It seems to work in Europe. On another point, I really don't see why this guy couldn't get laid. He's fairly attractive and has a lot of family wealth. I envied those guys where I came from (a rich suburb in Dallas, Texas). ConservapediaEditor (talk) 22:32, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
He didn't seem interested enough in other people's feelings to have much imagination about what to do if he gets to first base. That's going to be a problem sooner or later. - Smerdis of Tlön (talk) 04:47, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Why do you think there is no misogyny in Europe? Saying that men think they're entitled to sex with women is a very naïve and simplistic explanation of what happened. No doubt, but you're the one who just said that "sex resentments are a major motive" for mass killings. No one is saying that we force women to have sex with men who they don't desire. Why not? We do this ALL THE TIME. As long as we don't acknowledge that, putting sex in the realm of legitimate commerce will only make that happen more frequently. look how poorly we treat most women workers today. Do you think paying women to fuck will make that any better? sex is a need for both genders that has to be fulfilled. Sure. But this is not an #YesAllPeople situation. This is a question that overwhelmingly deals with men exercising power on women. Prostitution can fill this need for some men, and perhaps prevent these individuals from snapping and committing mass murder. THAT, my friend, is "very naive and simplistic." Prostitution is already de facto legal in most American jurisdictions: if you look at the escort ads and have a modicum of common sense and a couple of hundred bucks in your pocket, you can get laid and not arrested right now. The problem with your simplistic model is that men who think they are entitled to something aren't likely to pay for it. Because they are already entitled to it. Father Vivian O'Blivion (talk) 22:37, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Holy fucking Christ that Rodgers manifesto is fucking retarded and insane. Are there people really this terrible? Please don't tell me there are people this terrible. I want to believe.

Good God, I need a stiff drink. Or another one |₹Λ¥$€₦₦ Red rose 02.svg Burning this game would be an insult to fire. 22:44, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

The (curiously widespread) assumption that "sex is a need that has to be fulfilled" is pretty questionable. Is this "need" a real biological thing like when a dog goes into heat, or something created largely by social expectations and people's own psychology? In fact, many people last years - or sometimes their whole lives - without sex, either by choice or circumstance. Not all of them are bitter about it, or harbour violent fantasies of social revenge. Looking at the stuff this guy wrote, and similar things I've seen posted on incel/MGTOW type sites, it seems like the main sources of bile seem to be resentment about being rejected and about other people's success with sex/relationships, along with a feeling of being a laughing stock at the bottom of the dating hierachy - much more about pride, social standing & sense of entitlement than any pressing biological "need". WeaseloidWeaselly.jpgMethinks it is a Weasel 23:53, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
This is probably pretty close to the truth, if not the truth. I've met people, including friends, who have perfectly normal hormonal balance and don't really feel the need for sex or masturbation, being able to go without both for as many years as they want. Sex is not so much a biological need than something drilled into our heads as a sign of status or something by society. Nullahnung (talk) 22:58, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
I think I agree. Sex is a strong emotional drive, but what we have here is the fruit of repeated humiliations, and perfectly awful advice from PUAs about what to do about it just made it worse. - Smerdis of Tlön (talk) 04:43, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
No one is saying that we force women to have sex with men who they don't desire. Actually, that's exactly what Elliot Rodger did say: "Women should not have the right to choose who to mate and breed with. That decision should be made for them by rational men of intelligence" (from the final page or so of the manifesto linked above). WẽãšẽĩõĩďWeaselly.jpgMethinks it is a Weasel 00:07, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Want to lose all faith in humanity? Read some of the comments here [1]. People idolize these maniacs or at the very least sympathize with them and blame women/feminists, Even for youtube, it's a cesspool when it comes to this men's rights business. --Marlow (talk) 00:39, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

I'm surprised nobody reports these individuals to the authorities, but alas when they do, the authorities do nothing. I'm torn between the authorities investigating nuts who post on the Internet and the inevitable civil liberties issues that would result from that. ConservapediaEditor (talk) 04:44, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
Well, I don't think you can just go investigating and arresting people for comments on the Internet- unless, of course, we're talking real threats or cyber-harassment or whatever. But then, I don't know shit about shit. Brutal \m/ESSIAH 10:17, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
Rodger had already been questioned by the police about some of the stuff he'd posted. There wasn't very much they could do. :ŴêâŝêîôîďWeaselly.jpgMethinks it is a Weasel 12:04, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
Allow me to chime in, having read the Cwcki forums topic on this guy. You'd be surprised that he used his real name on some forums, so I guess that's how the cops found out.--Madman (talk) 09:30, 27 May 2014 (UTC)The Madman

Looking back on this after the rage-induced alcohol binge, I actually think misogyny is actually the lesser of this guy's problems. The guy had a God complex and thought people should flock to him. His writing resembles that of Gene Ray. Whatever this guy has, misogyny is a symptom of some deeper mental issue rather than a problem by itself.

And, more importantly, if you think spinning a gender manifesto out of this guy's mental issues, you're doing it wrong. It's disrespectful to the victims. (Not actually my original opinion, but a feminist subreddit did ban discussion of him based on this). --|₹Λ¥$€₦₦ Red rose 02.svg Ate at a Chinese restaurant therefore is literally Hitler 22:35, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Pray God what the Chinese just did doesn't result in a war.[edit]

I guess since Osaka has the chicken-little approach to the Korean peninsula cornered, someone needed to shift to another part of Asia. Cool your jets. Father Vivian O'Blivion (talk) 16:02, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

How about you stop, please? Osaka Sun (talk) 22:59, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
Note that he didn't say you posted that WIGO. Rather, he made an analogy to your views on Korea. - Grant (talk) 23:09, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
Jesus, Osaka...what I was saying was that since you monopolized Korea fear-mongering, someone else had to start fear-mongering elsewhere. Father Vivian O'Blivion (talk) 01:34, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
*Sighs* [2] [3] Osaka Sun (talk) 02:43, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
Says the guy who feared "all out war within days". Father Vivian O'Blivion (talk) 02:46, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

That gap just got asmaller.[edit]

Soon there will be nowhere for evolution deniers to hide anymore. Oldusgitus (talk) 14:26, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Nah. First they'll demand evidence of a transitional form from singing cricket to nonsinging cricket, then a transitional form for that transitional form as well. Then if the cdesign proponentsists can't talk their way out of the problem, they'll activate their amazing cognitive dissonance powers and ignore the problem on the off-chance that it goes away. --Captain Wolff (talk) 00:15, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Immigration will kill the GOP![edit]

Risible. I interact on a daily basis with immigrants who are pretty well-off. My boss's best client is a naturalized citizen, and had a picture of Mitt Romney (presumably some thank-you card for a contribution) in his office. The US isn't the only country to have conservative people. Even if the GOP itself closes shop, they will be replaced by another party that exists in opposition to the Democrats. Two guesses as to what Turiano actually fears.... --TheLateGatsby (The end of the dock ) 18:48, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

*Slams buzzer* A fictional God and Mexicans? Zero (talk) 18:51, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
It's not that the fact that GOP is conservative that causes it to be unpopular with hispanics and other immigrants. It's the fact it is hostile to immigrants in both policy and rhetoric. That may well change in the next few years, likely along with its hostility to the LGBT community, but they'll have to wait for the most bigoted wing of the party to die off. --Marlow (talk) 18:58, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
Yeah. Immigrants tend to be natural Tories. So what they're doing (as the Tories did in the UK) is alienate what would have been a natural constituency - David Gerard (talk) 20:23, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Juan Carlos I, ass kicker of what?[edit]

Conspiracy theories about Colonel Tejero's abortive coup of 1981 aside, Juan Carlos was no ass-kicker of the right.

He was Franco's named successor, brought up and groomed by Franco, surrounded by Franco's ministers well into the 90s and since then by the sons and nephews of Franco's ministers, including the former Falangist and buddy of George W, Jose Maria Aznar.

Yes, he played a critical role in November 1975 but that was to consolidate his position and keep the military happy. It was politicians like Adolfo Suarez and Felipe Gonzalez who dragged Spain into the late twentieth century while Juan Carlos, very graciously, didn't interfere.

Besides, there was no fucking junta. Not in 1936. Not in 1975. Not in 1981. I guess all right wing latins look alike, eh? What next? Another massacre by darkies in Bongo Bongo Land? London Grump (talk) 17:03, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Does it matter? The King's role is entirely ceremonial. --|₹Λ¥$€₦₦ Red rose 02.svg "Ritsuko, the truth is[...]" "Huh. You liar" 14:24, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
London Grump is referring to the original WIGO entry, which referred to Carlos as "an asskicker of juntas" before it was edited. --OverworldTheme (talk) 13:01, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Only a Mormon®...[edit]

I guess now we have to start referring to it as Mormanism® in the wiki, now that they're going for the Scientology® defense. --OverworldTheme (talk) 15:40, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Waukesha Stabbings and Media Furor[edit]

Well, this won't end well for the ARG community.--Madman (talk) 16:23, 4 June 2014 (UTC)The Madman

It's the Dungeons & Dragons panic for a whole new generation! Can't wait for the Chick Tract on it. --OverworldTheme (talk) 16:28, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
Part of me thinks that if your kid stabs a friend in order to appease a fictional character, you probably haven't been doing your job very well. Father Vivian O'Blivion (talk) 16:37, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
Well, shit. /b/ is sending the victim's parents letters, claiming to be a part of a cult worshiping the Slenderman and using Marble Hornets locations as return addresses.--Madman (talk) 00:42, 6 June 2014 (UTC)The Madman
Everytime I think humanity can't stoop any lower, they go out of their way to prove me wrong. --OverworldTheme (talk) 00:49, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
Looks like that was sent to one of the perpetrators parents (Note: "her efforts" "her wish"). --A Real Libertarian (talk) 06:43, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Consider adding this[edit]

To the Moncton shooting thread. [4]

The NFA uses this tragedy as an extremely well timed, non-opportunistic and appropriate moment to claim that gun control is too strict. --Shabidoo (talk) 07:32, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Ha! At times you almost completely forget they exist here.
As depicted in yesterday's Globe column, this smells like a desperation tactic. The killer represented the public's worst fears about gun owners; if those rifles were legally owned there will be finger-pointing. Osaka Sun (talk) 08:04, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
Oh wonderful, the NFA is putting out statements. Just whats needed. --Revolverman (talk) 09:20, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
You know, I'm really getting tired of this killing in the news lately.--Madman (talk) 19:42, 6 June 2014 (UTC)The Madman

European Parliament elections and loonies [edit]

This post is typical of an ignorant way of thinking and I guess from someone raised as an American (the bad way, not the educated one like most of the people of this wiki, wink wink). How do I know ? "[bla bla] and far-left loons now set to disrupt the other 600 members doing any actual work." Well, seems that the poster (Osaka Sun I guess, but I'm maybe wrong, and no man it's not a personal attack I don't even know if you really exist) is a real anti-communist kind of guy. The far-left loons he is talking about, who are they, and why are they supposed not to do any actual good work (like stopping the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership, which is, maybe not a bad thing to do)? Are you automaticaly a loony if you oppose the EU? We may try to guess from the country names given, accepting that a loony is someone who wants to leave the UE, the eurozone and all this kind of things :

France : Le front de gauche. Damn, it's a nest of communists. Well, except that not all of them are (some are, yes) and will never be communists (the Parti de gauche, for example, with Mélenchon). By the way, the communist party in France have more to do with the popular front of 1936 than the Gulag, but I guess that after years of anti-communist propaganda, it's hard to understand it on the other side of the Atlantic. They, also, are not against the EU but the way it works. They are on the left but are they really on the far-left? We will never know. And... that's it. No NPA, no Ligue Ouvrière. So let's say:

Numbers of far-left loonies in France : 0. Not a good start I guess.

Denmark: the Socialistisk Folkepartione is not against the UE. Only one elected deputy, from the Folkebevægelsen mod UE, can be considered a far-left loony by some.

Numbers of far-left loonies in Denmark : 1.

Greece: well, when we see the economical situation in Greece, it's no surprise to see such score by the far-right. What about the far-left? Συνασπισμός Ριζοσπαστικής Αριστερά (Syriza) have 6 deputies. Too bad that they are not against the EU but only the way it works. They do look a lot like the French not even a bit scary Front de gauche. Well, at least we have 2 deputies from the Κομμουνιστικό Κομμα Ελλάδας (KKE or real bad communists coming back from Stalin's pit of Hell). And, yes, they are against the EU.

Numbers of far-left loonies in Greece : 2.

Austria: this historical right-right country has a right-right score. No far-left, some social democrats that can be considered on the center-left with a dash of neoliberalism, but halas, no reds. Too bad.

Numbers of far-left loonies in Austria : 0.

The United-Kingdom: Except the Labour party (Tony Blair is definitively a loony but his party is not really on the far-left). The UKIP are far-right loonies, so they don't interest us here. And, yes, that's all.

Numbers of far-left loonies in the United-Kingdom : 0.

I can continue like that, but it's quite the same in the other countries (Germany, Spain and Italy score 0). So we have a total score of... drum roll... 3! What a wave! I'm shocked. These bloody communist scoundrels are gonna eat my baby with a knife in their mouth!

By the way the far-right are not proto-fascist, because proto-fascism is something that happened before fascism (hence the proto-). Crypto-fascism, Nationalist loonies, Bunch or racist morons or something like that will be more appropriate, as fascism is supposed to be something from the past since Mussolini's death.--Sultan Rahi (talk) 13:51, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

When I mentioned "far-left" I was specifically talking about Syriza and nowhere else. I believe I expressed that clearly. Osaka Sun (talk) 20:33, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
Fair enough.--Sultan Rahi (talk) 22:07, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
Syriza, Front de Gauche, and their assorted allies are only "far left" if you still think the mainstream "left" (assorted labour parties, socialists and social-democrats, and yes, being socialist doesn't mean the same thing anymore in Europe) to be really left. When you look at their acts and programs, they are closer to centre than anything, making the scary "far left" the only actual left in current Europe. Of course, there is also a real far-left, see Force Ouvriere or NPA, but they didn't get elected to anything significant in recent memory.--dx (talk) 07:12, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
"Making the scary 'far left' the only actual left in current Europe." No True Scotsman achieved. Osaka Sun (talk) 07:23, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
How? All that I'm saying is what you call the far-left loonies are actually a sensible vote for a lot of leftist in the current European political landscape. I don't see how that's a No True Scotsman. Actually, Hollande himself did describe his policies as "social-democrat". You can agree or not with left-wing policies, but that doesn't change the fact a lot of the so-called left in Europe has watered down to social-democrat positions during the last decades. The fact that Melenchon's program is what the socialist party program was before they became a government party doesn't make him a far-left loonie, unless you want to believe that half the population of France were far-left loonies in the 80s.--dx (talk) 12:35, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
Well, I don't know if it's a No True Scotsman but it's interesting to notice that seen from Europe, these parties are not scary or loony while, seen on the other side of the Atlantic, anything remotely on the left wing is scary, sovietic and like all these things that want to destroy the American Way of Life®. Indeed, François Hollande, the Labour Party in UK or any other socialist governments, even if they are on the left of the political spectrum (I do think so), have a politic often undistinguishable from the right wing, in the bad way, which is plain weird and make things like the German Grand coalition between the left and the right happen. Meanwhile, the other left (Die Linke, le Front de gauche, Syriza), la gauche de gauche (the left left (?)) to paraphrase Pierre Bourdieu, is shown as the equivalent of the far right in its dangerousness by the right wing parties, partly for historical reason (they're bloody communists) and partly because they will never agree to do such alliances with them, the former being strongly against unregulated capitalism and destruction of social protection.--Sultan Rahi (talk) 10:16, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Manson release[edit]

The "Empire News" looks like it might be an Onion style joke site, only not very good. "Woman Who Still Uses Dial-Up Internet Says She Has No Desire To Upgrade", "School Suspends Student For Gun Shaped Birthmark", "Obama Apologizes For Bergdahl Negotiations; Offers To Trade Him Back To Taliban". Story author's byline bio: "I was a member of the first graduating class at Harvard University in 1642. I was cryogenically frozen and brought back to life in 1981. I can speak gibberish in 18 different languages and often carry on conversations with myself in all 18." - Smerdis of Tlön (talk) 18:32, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Fake news should be moved to WIGO:Blogs really - David Gerard (talk) 08:09, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
Or commented out altogether. Scream!! (talk) 08:52, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
Yeah, I mean the stuff that isn't just terrible, as this is - David Gerard (talk) 09:39, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Turing Test[edit]

This is hardly the first time the Turing Test has been passed, or at least come close to passing. In fact, if the last couple of decades have been any indication, it's that the Turing Test is of no practical use in testing machine intelligence. All it can really do is test how effectively a program can dupe a selection of human observers. --CoyoteSans (talk) 17:43, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

This is a slow news day space filler - David Gerard (talk) 21:33, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
According to the article, this is the first time the test has been "properly" passed. Take it how you will. --OverworldTheme (talk) 22:12, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
According to the University of Reading the Turing Test requires 30% of human interrogators to be duped during a series of five-minute keyboard conversations, and every time it happened before there were limits on what the conversation was about. In this test the conversations were only limited by time, not subject matter. --A Real Libertarian (talk) 23:16, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
Bloody Kevin Warwick, long-time Turing test crank and general cyber-woomonger - David Gerard (talk) 09:22, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

At what point, exactly, do mass shootings stop becoming "news"?[edit]

A necessary step is the transition from mass shooting to homicide. [[User:K61824|]][[User_talk:K61824|]] 04:01, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Huh? WeaseloidWeaselly.jpgMethinks it is a Weasel 08:00, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
When they stop happening. Nullahnung (talk) 10:32, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

*Sigh* Been happening a lot recently. A main problem here is the media sensationalizing the stuff with exclusive excruciating details of the killer's life and what the score on the death toll is. Of course some psychopath in front of some TV somewhere will be watching and things will start brewing in the head... Another problem is failures in the mental illness system.

Here's roughly what I'm talking about: http://www.surgicalneurologyint.com/article.asp?issn=2152-7806;year=2013;volume=4;issue=1;spage=16;epage=16;aulast=Faria Nullahnung (talk) 16:14, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

It isn't like not talking about things works either. --Miekal 16:16, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
Yes, talking is essential. But there's a difference between talking about it and sensationalizing it like the media (ok, I realize I'm being unfair to certain reasonable parts of what constitutes the media, I mean types like "The Sun") does every time:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/josephgrenny/2012/12/13/the-media-is-an-accomplice-in-public-shootings-a-call-for-a-stephen-king-law/
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/media/2012/07/how-media-shouldnt-cover-mass-murder
Nullahnung (talk) 16:19, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
This isn't even a new idea. Psychologists have known this is a problem for years, but the news networks are increasingly getting worse. Even the BBC - content wise, at least, as their style is standardised and highly controlled - do it frequently. But every time I see US news reports I wonder whether I'm watching real news or satirical news channels filmed specifically as background pieces for a dystopian sci-fi movie. The whizzing titles, the dramatic music, the news anchors roaring like they're on stage... it's fucking insane. Scarlet A.pngDon't click here 16:56, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
MOTHER. FUCKING. THIRTY. SEVEN. That's how many homicidal school rampages have occurred so far this year. That's almost motherfucking two shootings per week! When will the motherfucking media stop turning the bastards who pull the trigger into motherfucking antiheroes?! Christ! I apologize for losing my temper, but four of those shootings have taken place where I have relatives, and one of my relatives was on the site of the Seattle Pacific shooting. I've motherfucking had enough of the motherfucking Second Amendment. The right of a few Jeebus-Fundies to parade around with tacticool machine guns like big swinging dicks is not worth these kinds of rampages being commonplace! --Captain Wolff (talk) 01:41, 11 June 2014 (UTC)
Seventy-four since Sandy Hook. Plus, there are non-school shootings to consider, like LV a couple days ago. America, you're so broken. Father Vivian O'Blivion (talk) 02:10, 11 June 2014 (UTC)
Father Vivian O'Blivion, you are so right. Granted, I'm gonna stay in America and do what I can to make it slightly less broken, but I feel like I'll just end up bitter and disappointed with the results when I'm an old man. --Captain Wolff (talk) 08:50, 11 June 2014 (UTC)
And yet when a President says "america, we are broken. we are the only nation that has this problem" he will be dismissed for many reasons, not the least of which is "Black man". Our myths talk about independence, about boot straps and self made and "won the war of independence against the more Powerful One, all on our own". We glorify the wild west, and fear (read: desire) the day when we will have to self-rule because the government has failed, or been bombed or other doomsday glory. We are what we've created, we are teenagers in search of an identity in a world where we got power too fast, and are now semi losing it to China. Nothing will change. NOt any time soon anyhow.One tin soldier (talk) 22:38, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

Eric Cantor's Defeat[edit]

Okay, how does a powerful contender like Cantor lose to some nobody? Here are some cynical hypotheses:

  1. Straight up Anti-Semitism: Cantor is the only Jewish Republican in the House. I guess that's one too many. Remember Joe Straus in Texas?
  2. Anti-immigrant hysteria: Obvious. Every Republican/Conservative site I read reviles amnesty for the undocumented.
  3. Democratic chicanery: Virginia has open primaries and it's possible some wiseasses hoped David Brat would prove himself to be a loon and lose in the general election. The Democrats were thrilled when some actor ran against Carter. It went wrong, but that was years ago. History never repeats itself, right? --TheLateGatsby (The end of the dock ) 14:56, 11 June 2014 (UTC)
4. Sometimes unexpected things happen, especially in primaries, where the people who are more mobilized/energized with the hope of changing things may be more inclined to actually bother to vote than people who are attached to the status quo. What was voter turnout like?If it was low, then a dark horse wouldn't really need to get that many people out to the polls. That said, I do get the sense immigration might have been a motivating issue, as Cantor was interested in reform. All hopes of reform are dead now, it seems. Father Vivian O'Blivion (talk) 15:14, 11 June 2014 (UTC)
Occam's Razor would explain this was merely unexpected, but there's been so much crowing about how the Tea Party is still alive (of course it is, the Tea Party will keep fighting until that terrible awful negro is replaced by a true Christian GOPer) I'm looking for a "cynical" explanation. Anyway, It would appear the Democrats were not pivotal in Cantor's defeat, which is good, because if there's anything the Dems have proven of late, it's that they're very good at shooting themselves in the foot. --TheLateGatsby (The end of the dock ) 15:28, 11 June 2014 (UTC)
The BBC has some analysis, I'm wondering about a combination of factors. Some Republicans don't like Jews, some Republicans, possibly the same racists don't like going easy on illegal immigrants, others feared that Cantor would cause problems for John Boehner. Perhaps many who voted for the unknown guy expected Cantor to win, they just wanted to reduce his majority as a warning over policies they don't like. Proxima Centauri (talk) 18:38, 11 June 2014 (UTC)
"Cantor is the only Jewish Republican in the House. I guess that's one too many." Can't stress how big of a deal this is. [5] [6] Osaka Sun (talk) 20:52, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

Iraq in June 2014[edit]

This Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) overran the city of Mosul (Iraq's second largest city) a couple days ago. The ISIS is a terrorist group (now more like an army) which has been repudiated by the likes of Al Qaeda for being to extreme. Indeed they are currently battling the Al Qaeda affiliate Jabhat al-Nusra over the Syrian city of Deir-ez-Zor which is on the northeast shore of the Euphrates River. Anyway the Iraqi troops stationed in Mosul deserted en masse and ISIS took the weapons they left behind (which are all American made). ISIS proceeded to overrun several more cities and several news reports say that they are advancing rapidly towards Baghdad as the Iraqi Prime Minister asks the Americans to launch air strikes against them. The far more stable and heavily armed Autonomous Kurdish Government in the Iraqi Kurdistan has taken the opportunity to occupy the heavily contested city of Kirkuk which is the center of a region with large oil reserves. It is feared that the Iraqi Kurds may decide to outright declare independence since they are more than capable of doing so. Thus far the Kurds seem to be the only force capable of beating the Jihadists on a consistent basis and the various other minorities in the regions like the Assyrians have allied themselves with the Kurds. Yesterday the Grand Ayatollah of Iraq Ali Sistani called on Iraqi Shi'ites to take up arms against the Jihadists (this is not surprising since the Jihadists in question would and already have massacred Shi'ites they've come across earning them condemnation from other Syrian Rebel groups who are trying to avoid framing the Syrian Civil War in religious terms). The city of Samarra, home to a major Shi'ite shrine (which was bombed by Sunni extremists during the Iraq war setting off the extreme sectarian violence that war became known for) seems to be the only city in all of northern Iraq under the control of the Government. This is fortunate; if it were to fall Iraq would descend into civil war and the entire Middle East may be consumed in chaos even grater than the chaos already present if that is possible to imagine. I have shared my thoughts about this mess, what does everyone else think about it? Alsto003 (talk) 00:55, 15 June 2014 (UTC)Alsto003

War never changes. Frederick♠♣♥♦ 04:52, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
You also have the bizarre possibility of Iran militarily supporting a US-backed government. Once you consider the awful options regarding Syria and an even worse clusterfuck in Iraq, I'd argue it's an effective deterrent for those wanting to seek political office. Osaka Sun (talk) 05:51, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

Cattle Mutilation[edit]

I wasn't sure if this belonged here or in clogosphere, but, I put it here. Move it if you see fit. I was also shocked, SHOCKED I say, to find that we apparently didn't have a page on Cattle mutilation already (searched, didn't find one), so I started one. --Gulik (talk) 19:04, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

"Male reporter molested at Men's rights conference"[edit]

The real story is with the comments below. Mostly from men (with a middle-aged woman joining in), they take turns challenging the author's masculinity more than "Ken". It really is like the MRA stereotype, there (of the "if she doesn't scream, it isn't rape" variety) before concluding that it is a Feminist propaganda piece.-- 2.97.9.75 (talk) 18:18, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

That's comment sections for you. Personally, I only really have two observations about this article. First: the title seems a bit on the sensationalist side (as super-ultra-creeptastic as Mr. Malibu was. Egads.), and second: at one point the author says something along the lines of:
All of these problems stem from treating the sexes unequally. It would appear that despite all of their comments thread flame wars, MRAs and feminists are more or less fighting for the same things — gender equality. So why can’t they get along?
Oh, if only psychology, sociology, and life were so simple. Noir LeSable (talk) 21:04, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
You might as well ask why all world religions can't get along. Vulpius (talk) 21:35, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
A lot of people see 'rights' as a zero-sum game. If women have more, men have less, the 'thinking' goes. (Just like the way the Emancipation Proclamation resulted in white people being enslaved.) --Gulik (talk) 00:41, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
If you look at the Twitter profile of the writer there's an interesting conversation about this, it turns out the guy was creeping on a few of the reporters there: [7]. I would say that Elam would be quite pissed right now, what with him asking their readers to be on their best behaviour for the conference, but A Voice for Men are already doing a pretty good job of making the movement look bad themselves [8] (yes, that's a sixteen year old Miley Cyrus) --Drowninginlimbo (talk) 21:36, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
I suspect the creep is either a botched attempt at some kind of sting, or a deliberate troll. It isn't like there aren't plenty of people who seem not to like these guys. - Smerdis of Tlön (talk) 04:42, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
It wouldn't surprise me if he was a real MRA or a troll --Drowninginlimbo (talk) 05:55, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
Turns out they endorse what happened... sort of... "Paul Elam saddened to turn away a clearly troubled man in search of human contact because of accusations of "molestation" from MSM #icim14" --Drowninginlimbo (talk) 08:48, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Possum drop[edit]

I upvoted it as kudos to the North Carolina legislature standing up to the PETA bullies. Whether the event is cruel to opossums is something I find difficult to care about. We're talking about primitive vermin that's the roadkill champion of the world around here. - Smerdis of Tlön (talk) 04:06, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

I downvoted it because it's a shoddy article that belongs better in blogs than news. Might have voted differently for some more informative coverage. ЩєазєюіδWeaselly.jpgMethinks it is a Weasel 11:13, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
I know, right. What kind of bully would dare to vocally express disagreement with dropping creatures from such a height that trauma is likely to occur? I remember that it was a cultural event in school to trip people down flights of stairs. I remember feeling that it was hard to care about, the targets being the champions of getting harassed and called "fag", even somehow managing to get shoved into garbage cans on a regular basis. I actually remember their going through a similar spate of bullying to the one described in the article where people were telling them that deliberately tripping people that were generally disliked was "demented" and "still attempted murderers regardless of how unpopular the victims were", even "possibly having anti-social personality disorder". I was happy when the state legislature passed a bill and stood up to the bullies by declaring that their tripping of people down flights of stairs was exempt from extant state laws against murder and manslaughter. As we all know as expressed early in this, it is only cruel and unusual if the target is well liked and verbally expressing disagreement with the act is bullying. (Just in case, yes, this edit was sarcastic.) Crow7878 (talk) 03:03, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k76IGLi6jWI&feature=kp ApostateAtLarge (talk) 17:34, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Shaking our heads in disbelief at SCOTUS[edit]

We are indeed wondering WTF is going on, but at the cases not the decisions. We're wondering why, in 2014, it's down to an employer instead of the individual and/or the state (as in nation state) to provide contraception. We're wondering what kind of time warp allows a union closed shop in the 21st century. London Grump (talk) 23:14, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Don't understand what you're getting at in your second point. Closed shops generally vary in legality around the world, but have been banned in the US since the 1948 Taft-Hartley Act. The SCOTUS is slowly chipping away at the agency shop (in this case, regarding the public sector), where workers have to pay union dues despite not being a member of a union — exactly what right-to-work advocates want. Osaka Sun (talk) 23:44, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Governor Crazy of Maine[edit]

Okay:

  1. How did he manage to hide most of this shit under the national spotlight for the last four years? We noticed him less than we did Jon Huntsman.
  2. I understand that he got into office because the left split the vote (Dems nominating a Blue Dog + the Independent candidate agreeing to strategic voting all but guarantees it won't recur), but will it continue to be the norm for extreme-right, caricature Republicans to run in the Northeast? Osaka Sun (talk) 06:39, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
I don't even know how he can keep his office, since these guys are LEGALLY a terrorist group, as deemed by the FBI. Isn't consorting with them a crime? --Revolverman (talk) 09:42, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
If this were a muslim terrorist group, there wouldn't be a press conferences, conservatives coming ignoring this story, or anything. His ass would be in jail so fast, that this would be a done issue in a day. But no. They're white, libertarian, christians, so we have to just let bygones be bygones. I'm sure the conservative media would have the same measured response if it were Obama or some other democrat meeting up with a left wing terrorist group.

thought crimes and cannibal cops[edit]

This seems like no win situation for the police. Do nothing and get some horrendous crime of which people ask why didn't they step in sooner, act to soon and you lock up some harmless loon for thought crimes and venting on the internet. AMassiveGay (talk) 18:57, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

I would say they acted appropriately. They took the threat seriously and the justice system determined that it was a false positive. Anyway It's not like these things never work, I'm reminded of a case a number of years back where a fellow said he would burn his school down. newgrounds which is not exactly a moral bastion promptly found the guy's personal data and called the local police. the guy and he was arrested going to school and caught with matches and gasoline. Here's the summary that I found at the time http://rig.newgrounds.com/news/post/281646 and apparently newgrounds now has a fucking wiki with an article about it too but I think rig's summary is better

A+++ work Abbott[edit]

You've made Steven Harper look like a caring and intelligent leader. That's nothing short of a god damn miracle. --Revolverman (talk) 14:44, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

In Scotland draping bacon round the doors of a mosque merits a year in prison.[edit]

while it doesn't merit any prison time, it certainly reveals a couple of terrible assholes at work. Father Vivian O'Blivion talkModerator 17:44, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

I'm not supporting what they did, it only radicalises the Muslims more. Proxima Centauri (talk) 17:46, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
You know what else does that, I'll bet? Referring to them as an undifferentiated block of radicals. Father Vivian O'Blivion talkModerator 18:12, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
Good post! - David Gerard (talk) 10:15, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
it does kind of add fuel to the fire doesn't it. I dunno bout a year in prison but some sentence is warranted. I dunno if its a hate crime specifically, not quite that serious, but in that kinda ball park. Everyone know pork is a big no no for muslims, they vwould have known the distress it could cause and there is no 'free speech' issue here. It is the same level of daubing 'wogs go home' on the door. I think muslim communities already feel beseiged from the likes of ukip and edf and shitty red tops and dubious foreign policy. I'd rather not tar all Muslims with the radical brush, but there is a problem with radicalisation of Muslims in the UK at present, as seen by the many? British Muslims fighting in Syria and Iraq and I think in, somalia. Throwing bacon at them is only gonna aid the more radical preachers. AMassiveGay (talk) 09:53, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
I would approve if they got many hours hours community service and/or were ordered to attend equality and diversity training courses. Proxima Centauri (talk) 18:07, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
It's a harsh sentence in itself, but maybe it's meant to discourage other people doing the same thing and triggering a riot. Casionaut (talk) 19:14, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
Is there any possibility that they will be released early onto parole with good behavior in prison? That's possible in America but I know nothing about other countries parole laws(not that I know all that much about the USA's parole laws for that matter)--NonPerson (talk) 01:28, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

That ugly meme[edit]

I suggest that this news item gets edited out. Although I am sure that the person who added it had no bad intentions, I think we should not increase the amount of people who see that meme. Let's just hope that it calms down soon enough. My comment here should then be deleted, too. Sophophobe (talk) 16:30, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Keep hatred from spreading, or put as many eyes as possible on the hatred so that people know they live in a society where hatred thrives and are possibly motivated to do a little tiny something about it? I'm willing to bet most people here go for the latter. Father Vivian O'Blivion talkModerator 16:44, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
A lot of the twitter links now point at missing pages, which I take to be a good sign. Not sure what to think about the balance between withholding publicity in the spirit of DFTT, or shining some of Justice Brandeis's sunlight on it. Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 16:55, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
RationalWiki has a tendency to flock to wherever the worst crap out there is and focus as much attention on it as possible. It's not always the best course of action, but hey, at least RW has established itself as such and people won't be surprised to find the worst of the worst here. If you don't want to see it, you know which website not to go to. Nullahnung (talk) 17:04, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
I figured I should at least change the news source to one that doesn't link to the hashtag or examples of the meme so I found a different website for it --Drowninginlimbo (talk) 11:51, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
I found it mildly amusing that when I visited the link, the suggested next clickbait story apparently involved looking at a series of 25 pictures of Kim Kardashian's arse. - Smerdis of Tlön (talk) 14:25, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
Oh yeah I picked the source solely because it didn't link to the meme or hashtag itself, most articles did --Drowninginlimbo (talk) 15:17, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
As an American, she has an ass, not an arse - David Gerard (talk) 15:58, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
I agree that if posting such news generally helps to decrease, or at least monitor hatred in a respectful way, it could be preferred over the chance to calm things down quickly. Especially here at RW where people generally read the news to get informed about just that kind of stuff. The quote of the assaulted girl that can be found under the new link now actually gives me confidence that she would approve this posting. There is a situation, though, when I would still disappreciate sharing a similar affair: that is, when it's not yet certain whether that thing goes viral or not and posting it here might become the metaphorical final straw. In this case I would kindly encourage people to wait for a few hours and then reconsider sharing it. Sophophobe (talk) 18:36, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
Well, failing better sources, it would be possible to rehost the text of a news article on the subject using Blogspot or Tumblr without direct links or the name of the hashtag. It's not like this sort of thing happens frequently but it would mean that we aren't giving the meme traffic or further spreading the images. I am happy that she is holding together, god knows what strength that takes --Drowninginlimbo (talk) 20:36, 14 July 2014 (UTC)