RationalWiki talk:What is going on in the world?/Archive36

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WIGO numbering[edit]

Is there a table somewhere of WIGO numbers and whether they have a vote attached to them? I really doubt we've gone through 198,000 news stories. β„•oir LeSable (talk) 18:45, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

There is a database table, but also, why worry about it? We aren't gonna run out of a nextint() for a long time. I'd say just renumber the wrong one right now. AND THE REST OF YOU, USE THE DAMNED nextpoll=world NOT THIS MANUAL SHIT. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 19:12, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
That exists!? --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png πŸŽ„LeftyGreenMario!πŸŽ„(Mod) 20:18, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
Huh, didn't realise that was possible. Every WIGO I've added has been manual. --RWRW (talk) 21:06, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
When you edit the page, there's literally a link you can click above the edit panel that does it for you. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 21:18, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
lol noobs Pizza SLICE.gifDuceMoosoliniYour friendly RW dictator moderator 21:26, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
I never ever used those links lol. And besides, I don't see that specific tag anywhere... --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png πŸŽ„LeftyGreenMario!πŸŽ„(Mod) 21:54, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
The numbers are that high because somebody sometime accidentally added a digit, and then everyone after followed suit. And then it happened again. Avida Dollarsher again 16:35, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
IT'S HAPPENED AGAIN. β„•oir LeSable (talk) 14:51, 21 June 2019 (UTC)


What's with all the downvotes on the WIGO about Trump's veto on the Yemeni War resolution? It's a worthy story to be included on the page. Why don't people here think RW readers should know about things like this? Trump's deliberately continuing to aid the Saudi bloodbath in Yemen. That's something that should be on the WIGO page. Pizza SLICE.gifDuceMoosoliniYour friendly RW dictator moderator 02:26, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

It's called Trump Derangemenent syndrome. Liberal and centrists are willing to support a genocidal war if Trump is against it. Tuxer (talk) 14:53, 17 April 2019 (UTC)
How backwards do you have it? The resolution was to end support for the genocidal war(though it won't actually end the war, since it's useful enough for house of saud to pay for themselves). Opposing trump and opposing genocide are in alignment today. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 15:01, 17 April 2019 (UTC)
Like Reddit, votes are at times used to say "I (don't) like this" rather than "I (don't) think this is a (e.g.) relevant/valuable/accurate/etc. story". On top of that, anyone -- even randos popping through the site -- can vote on it, right? β„•oir LeSable (talk) 15:17, 17 April 2019 (UTC)
I always took the votes to mean "I don't like this event", not "This is a good story". Is it supposed to be used for the quality of the story and not your opinion of the event? MirrorIrorriM (talk) 20:44, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
Oof my WIGO about Biden standing in 2020 is sitting on -4. Guess there isn’t much love for Uncle Joe these days! β€”RWRW (talk) 20:53, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
@RWRW It's probably because election news goes in WIGO elections. Avida Dollarsher again 16:34, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
I also vote on whether or not I think this is a good thing - so stories bout Trump being a jerk generally get a downvote from me 'cos I don't like the crap he and his ilk keep pulling.Aloysius the Gaul 03:28, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Gavin Williamson: Fallout guy[edit]

1. it is Fall guy not Fallout guy 2. you are not a fall guy if you did what are accused of. who do you think he is taking a fall for? AMassiveGay (talk) 13:52, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Just posted to the WIGO[edit]

But holy shit is the republican descent into abortion madness becoming extreme. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 21:17, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

Oh no![edit]

Not foods being labeled organic, when they don't actually fall into that vaguely defined meaningless category! How terrible! ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 16:42, 10 May 2019 (UTC)


Any news here about Modi winning reelection?

Well, if you find any feel free to post it. But post in What is going on: Elections, not here. The blue symbol links you there. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png πŸŽ„LeftyGreenMario!πŸŽ„(Mod) 06:10, 28 May 2019 (UTC)


Improvements my ass, @Nerd. β€” Oxyaena Harass 15:56, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

Nerd vs Oxyaena[edit]

I've no idea what's going on, or why you both feel strongly about a minor wording edit, but perhaps you can discuss it here in a civilised manner. I don't want to spend my sunday evening sorting this crap out. In other news, I appear to have turned into my mother. Avida Dollarsher again 17:20, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

Fuck off with your anal shit, this isn't Wikipedia asshole. β€” Oxyaena Harass 19:23, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
Goddamn you, stop fucking whitewashing, @Nerd. This is not your playground, fuck off. β€” Oxyaena Harass 19:56, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
I've run out of patience and I'm ready to Coop him. Avida Dollarsher again 20:29, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
Is this about doing edits of WIGOs? I do that sometimes to fix grammar, spelling, or broken links; should I stop? MirrorIrorriM (talk) 11:16, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

2050 paper[edit]

Actually read it, please. Read the fucking paper. This is an "irreversible and self perpetuating by 2050" scenario the expand on. A common case in the literature today.

β€œβ€2050: By 2050, there is broad scientific acceptance

that system tipping-points for the West Antarctic Ice Sheet and a sea-ice-free Arctic summer were passed well before 1.5Β°C of warming, for the Greenland Ice Sheet well before 2Β°C, and for widespread permafrost loss and large-scale Amazon drought and dieback by 2.5Β°C. The β€œhothouse Earth” scenario has been realised, and Earth is headed for another degree or more of warming, especially since human greenhouse emissions are still significant.


Clickbait headlines are hell. Nowhere, not in any place do the authors project a collapse of human civilization in 2050. However, they project the irreversible climate change positive reinforcement forward to some disastrous scenarios(that could reasonably be called "collapse of civilization") by 2100. I hate the way headlines misrepresent very serious problems. Rationalwiki shouldn't be a place where dishonest headlines get reproduced verbatim. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 21:17, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

Damn. Here I was all ready with my Interceptor and bondage gear. I just needed to wait until the right time to hoard enough gas to endlessly drive around screaming "I AM THE NIGHTRIDER!" Now my dreams are crushed.--Lgmr (talk) 22:35, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
The (low) chances of climate change leading to human extinction are briefly covered in Existential_risk#Climate_change. But with Extinction Rebellion and many others pushing the idea of imminent death for everybody, maybe a more in-depth article would be useful. (Is Extinction Rebellion in general worthy of critical analysis?) --Annanoon (talk) 11:26, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

police murder is worse than you think[edit]

two specific cases. 1. black guy sleeping in car shot to death by (seemingly white) police officers. 2. white woman phones in a reported rape shot to death by the responding black police officer. can you guess which one got jail time?

there is not just the obvious racial element here, the double standard in what gets punished, or race being a factor on how itchy the coppers trigger finger gets, but the right to bear arms makes police murder so much more likely.

your population is armed, so the police armed. we know the police are armed. the police however do not know who, out on the beat is armed. every person they see as they walk down the street might be armed. potentially ready to end their life. every twitch in the corner of their eye, every raised voice, every movement, every action, might be a gun being reached for. seconds to assess, react, to defend themselves with lethal force. they are trained to be ever ready, ever vigilant, constantly searching, day in day out. trained to respond with lethal force - not de-escalation, but lethal, and to make certain it is lethal, force.

this is not community policing, this is an occupying force. they are to serve and protect the community, but the community is the enemy. any one could put a bullet in their heads, the guy in shadows, him with a newspaper under his arm. the young mother might have a shotgun in her pram.

the population reacts accordingly. interactions with police require no sudden movements. raising your voice might be seen as readying to attack. you are a threat cuffed and face down on the floor. you are threat when sleeping in your car. tipping your hat to an officer as you walk past gets you shot. opening the door to the officer sent to house after you've been swatted is the last thing you ever do.

neither police or their communities trust each other. there is mutual fear of each other. everyone is on edge. police are more and more militarised. negative stories in press about police brutality. the lack of oversight. community outrage at senseless deaths. always ramping up tension. racism in all its forms, exasperating things.

all enabled by a right to bear arms. to protect you from your government. and you are shot taking nap.

this might be hyperbole from a fucknut across the pond, where only the most egregious cases make it, but holy shit theres so many cases. how close to reality is all this? is it even close? AMassiveGay (talk) 17:18, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Cops are intimidating, so while it may not exactly describe the reality of the matter, at least for middle class neighborhoods like the one where I live, the ghetto is a different story entirely, in poverty-stricken areas it is incredibly close. Poor people in general get the jackboot. β€” Oxyaena Harass 17:22, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
My sister and I had a discussion on how the gun culture exacerbates the police problem and is an overlooked aspect. It's not a discussion I get to talk about a lot especially since anti police seems to be a stronger in RationalWiki. It's a vicious cycle. The media sensationalize police brutality rather than promotes police doing their job as it's a shocking story that gets views, but it feeds into the perception that the police are aggressive and even come with conspiracies that they serve state interests before the community. So in turn, since they can't trust the police, they turn to guns and get brainwashed by the idea of self defense and vigilantism and evil government, both which interfere with police work, but the police have the added burden of assuming everyone is armed. This in turn causes police to act violently to avoid potential gunshot wounds, turning the community even more distrustful of police, racism making it worse. A lot of anti police sentiment I've seen stemmed from negative experience but anecdote is powerful. This could also be a chicken and egg problem though. I'm not sure what came first, fear of police or fear of community, but it's clear that gun culture is making it all worse. There's also the problem with community resources and how somewhat decentralized police departments are, as police departments do vary in policy and training quality and how they manage crime, though it leads to people generalizing all 1.1 million police as if they're from the same department and are in the same community, and good jobs by police are either dismissed as "puff pieces" or "they are from affulent communities and serve affulent people". Poverty and racism are related though, and since those two are related to crime, with poverty nearly always increasing crime and racism leading to more blacks incarcerated, with gun culture being a massive problem, it's complicated and I really don't think sharing stories of police killing people is helping at all. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png πŸŽ„LeftyGreenMario!πŸŽ„(Mod) 17:37, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
Strongly agree. β„•oir LeSable (talk) 17:58, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
I disagree with the not sharing stories of police killings. if they don't get spread, the issues presented wont be addressed. its easy to think things aren't an issue if its not in your community. its easy to dismiss anger in communities where it does as uppity rabble rousers who bring things on themselves. after all they've had no problems. the police reaction to a lot of objectively awful things that they have done does not help. its often sporadic. ranks are closed. investigation of the issues involved is dropped in favour of stone walling. genuine self defense cases then get conflated with cases of clear abuse an the specifics are lost when all the info given by the police is effectively 'we killed another one of you'. I understand (or more likely misremember. its in the guardian if its a thing) that instances of police killing people, for whatever reason, are often not recorded, or not data is not uniformly collected or of sufficient detail. if they are not, it means they are doing nothing. a them and us attitude should be resisted, but theses times...its dizzying to think of the different things effecting everything else, and it all varying city to city, state to state. the inertia of the system, and every year seems an election year. its daunting. American politics seems insane to me on every level. I look at it and I look at the limbo of Brexit Britain and I can see why people just seem to pick a side. you can at least feel part of a team. your attention can focused. all I got is impotent despair and crushing indecision. AMassiveGay (talk) 23:40, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
I don't agree either that bad press is inherently bad but it still has that effect of feeding into biases about the police and help convince people along the way to own a gun and continue distrusting the police, which in turn makes the police's job harder. This is like the press reporting on airplane crashes and convincing people to drive and increase their risk of getting killed. I also think the press is really quick to jump on what the police did and it's really easy to avoid reflecting about the really complicated situation the police is in and the psyche of both parties. I mean, both sides must've had a torrent of thoughts and made several difficult snap decisions that ended in tragedy, and this isn't how a lot of people think about when they read the press about the police. The press shouldn't avoid doing the job of reporting, but maybe it's just an overall problem of people being unable to reflect on how everything happened? The stone-walling, however, is almost always bad and I think the police there should be sanctioned for lethal force. The police relationship with the community is a very gray area issue and has no real easy solutions. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png πŸŽ„LeftyGreenMario!πŸŽ„(Mod) 05:15, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
How exactly do you take the guns away though? Right wing nuts would revolt the second you actually tried to pass that. I hear them bragging here where I work about how they would like to "see them try to take my guns." There would be a blood bath of unprecedented (at least for the US) scale. They are ravenous, unhinged, and vicious. I've seen one of the people at my work threaten a teenager with a shotgun because the kid scratched his car. Think he wouldn't shoot a federal officer trying to take his gun? Dude it fucking sucks, but I worry the politics are just deadlocked forever. MirrorIrorriM (talk) 17:46, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
@MirrorIrorriM I think all those gun nuts are adorably naive. They all seem to think that the government coming after them (for whatever reason) will be a repeat of Ruby Ridge. They're idiots. If the government wanted to eliminate an armed and entrenched threat they'd launch Air-to-Surface missiles from UAV, not send in infantry. Gun nuts still think in terms of the 1930s while in reality a 5 man team with a computer and a UAV could eliminate them with little effort. TL;DR, technology has advanced and gun nuts' fixation on automatic firearms has made them blind to how truly obsolete their little toys actually are. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 18:01, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
Oh they would lose by far, but it doesn't mean they wouldn't kill a lot of people first. The people I'm thinking of are so callous they would act on a "you're with me or you're against me" mentality. If you don't try to support them, they would shoot you for being a traitor or some shit. I tend to be very soft spoken IRL, so I often make a lot of friends. I've had one say to me "You and me, ****, we could go to the hills if the feds ever try to pull shit. We'd have to keep that bastard **** quiet though, he'd definitely rat on us." [**** is omitted names] Several of the fucks here are like that. I love my job, but I'm scared of some of the people who work here. MirrorIrorriM (talk) 18:13, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
It's ironic that the right wing nuts worship the police and are generally behind Blue Lives Matter but they're ultimately hurting the police. On the other hand, despite the gun culture, I've read in a statistic aggregator that police are more likely to support gun rights, more likely white, male, and if they have discharged a gun in their career. Huh. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png πŸŽ„LeftyGreenMario!πŸŽ„(Mod) 18:22, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
On a day-to-day basis for the average person? Definitely hyperbole (like, goddamn man). According to the DoJ's Bureau of Justice Statistics, only roughly 2% of police-civilian interactions led to either threats (including pointing a gun) or active use of force (including simply getting handcuffed). This isn't to say this isn't an issue -- the same statistics showed that black people were three times more likely to experience threats or force compared to white people -- but it isn't like the police orders everyone person they pull over for a broken taillight out of their car and onto the concrete. The storied history of race relations in America plays a large role in the matter as well -- Puerto Rico's police force is a festering mound of corruption, gun violence, and rivers of blood, but nobody gives a shit about them. β„•oir LeSable (talk) 17:58, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
Actually, pullovers are a dangerous moment for the police. Police are put in a more vulnerable position than the person in the car, even more menacing if the police has traffic stopped someone who is DUI. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png πŸŽ„LeftyGreenMario!πŸŽ„(Mod) 18:16, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

β”Œβ”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”˜ Maybe if we got rid of the fucking Second Amendment we wouldn't have this problem, it's a relic of a bygone age, an anachronism, this isn't the Wild West, people don't need to be armed 24/7 for "protection" anymore. β€” Oxyaena Harass 05:45, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

http://www.thepolemicist.net/2013/01/the-rifle-on-wall-left-argument-for-gun.html?m=1Richard Pickman (talk) 18:40, 18 August 2019 (UTC)Richard Pickamn

If you put the Constitution in context, you see things like quartering British troops right next to the second amendment. The first amendment is still relevant, but the second one should be disregarded and stay in context and relevance as the third one imo. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png πŸŽ„LeftyGreenMario!πŸŽ„(Mod) 05:56, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

The Constitution is a relic of a bygone age, it was great for its time, not so much any more, it should be done away with. β€” Oxyaena Harass 12:37, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
The entire Constitution? Not just the bad parts? Wouldn't we just end up creating a new document with most of the same things in it? MirrorIrorriM (talk) 17:19, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
I don't think it's entirely down to "the right to bear arms". It's also the case of strutting douchebags common in police forces in North America. Canada has very few concealed arms and police shooting suspects is pretty uncommon and a totally unreasonable case is rare and the cop is usually punished. That being said, Canadian cops can be sort of decent but many many many can be just as arrogant and authoritarian and rude and overbearing and cocky and assholey as American cops...arrest you for the slightest sign of disrespect and lose their patience very quickly. When I'm in Chicago or Toronto, I don't feel particularly safer when a cop is around. I feel self-conscious, worried I'm doing something wrong, thinking there's a 50/50 chance the Cop is more menacing, looking for little problems and will elevate problems quickly. Their strutting Captain. Awesome attitude is also nauseating. In Paris, Madrid, Singapore, Taipei: I feel genuinely safer when police are around. And I've seen them patiently put up with incredible abuse for up to an hour trying to diffuse a situation...usually ending up with both parties leaving peacefully. You don't have to worry about engaging with them, they won't ask you to open your bag after you ask them for directions or ask what your business is when you ask a simple question etc. but will help you whatever your problem is and leave you alone. Their aim is to help and look out for SERIOUS problems. I have no doubt that American police are more trigger happy (perhaps to a small extent with good reason) but like Canadian cops, it also comes down to a sense of entitlement, a public fetish for and outpouring respect for anyone in a uniform and their frequent assholetry. (talk) 14:16, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

US State flags[edit]

I think I could try my hand at putting together a thing for US (maybe CA too) State flags, similar to the country flags and to be used alongside the US flag for more state-based stories, if desired. I think there's just a surfeit of plain US flags flooding the WIGO on items that tend to be more local in nature. β„•oir LeSable (talk) 21:45, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

As long as you don't remove the US Flag, I couldn't recognize a US state flag so to me it doesn't matter, but I can't see why not. β€” Dysk (contribs) 22:44, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
The wiki has a primarily USanian audience, so it's not going to hurt. But Dysklyver, the flag from my state has a bear. Hard to forget. :P --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png πŸŽ„LeftyGreenMario!πŸŽ„(Mod) 22:48, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
Can we have a Devon flag for when I WIGO my own county? Avida Dollarsher again 20:18, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
Why not throw in a flag for Catalonia as well? Not joking. β€” Oxyaena Harass 21:03, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
Is there a municipal crest aficionado in the house? Avida Dollarsher again 21:12, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
Can we also have flags for US territories? TheUmbilicalCordGuy (talk) 04:12, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
@TheUmbilicalCordGuy β€” The US Territories are covered in the country flags: AS (American Samoa), GU Guam, MP Northern Mariana Islands, PR Puerto Rico, and VI US Virgin Islands. Now, if anything happens to the roughly 100 non-permanent residents of Wake Atoll, I think we can start looking at options for other bits past that. β„•oir LeSable (talk) 19:40, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

Ulster bullshit[edit]

The Northern Irish story is probably fake based only on the word of a failed, homophobic sectarian politician.[1] People should consider the source of a story and evaluate its likely truthfulness. --Annanoon (talk) 18:22, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

Up/Down Voting[edit]

How exactly does the up and down voting work? Is it vote up if you like story and down if you don't? because The Kyoani attack is at something like +19 and the Rand Paul story is at -4. So does that mean people are happy Kyoani got attacked and pissed that Rand Paul is getting called out? RoundeTheeHorne (talk) 12:39, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

I've always taken it to be a reflection of the quality/value of the story itself - i.e. a story that people find relevant tends to get upvoted, whereas something not relevant, from a non-reputable source, or just completely pointless tends to get downvoted. AcidTrial (talk) 15:59, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
I vote on how much I like what is being reported - down vote generally fascist and intolerant and ignorant bullshit, up vote generally tolerant, liberal, factual bullshit. If the quality of the source isn't up to scratch then I'm happy to provide a better one, and might even consider shifting it to blogs or clogs as some people have done in the past.Aloysius the Gaul 02:12, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

'proabably piss off the NRA too'[edit]

Probably, but you know what? who gives a shit what the nra think? its nothing to do with them, so why even mention them? this line in addition to that article, about a tragedy in new Zealand and their response, is nothing but cheap point scoring. fuck off. AMassiveGay (talk) 00:14, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Because the NRA has used the attack for its own purposes, which intimately links them to subsequent actions here. so no.Aloysius the Gaul 02:09, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
bullshit. they've inserted themselves into a story that desnt concern them and you've kindly obliged them, dancing to their tune. well done. its not about the nra just because they said something AMassiveGay (talk) 08:49, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
So it's bullshit that they inserted themselves into the story, and yet they inserted themselves into the story according to you?? Stop being a fuck head. I get to choose the story I want about the massacre and how I see the relationship in relation to the NRA, and it suites me to write it so. You got another one? feel free to write it up yourself - I'm not here to hold your hand. Aloysius the Gaul 09:32, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
fuck off. you are doing what the nra are doing - using a massacare for your ends. its just as sickening. AMassiveGay (talk)
Actually I'm using the reaction to the massacre for my own ends. Just like you are using my reaction to the reaction for your own ends. Do try to grow up. Aloysius the Gaul 22:39, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
fuck off you prick. it shouldn't have been the focus of that wigo. it would have been suited as a separate wigo, or more aptly clogs. the nra don't give a fuck about nz or what goes on there - its doesn't effect them nor does the nra have any effect in nz. their response is for American eyes ands american eyes only - stoking fears of 'they're coming for you guns'. its standard procedure for them after every massacre and its one that works - gun sales always spike after. stop dancing to their tune.
as for the grow up comment, after what I just removed from another wigo, I repeat - fuck offAMassiveGay (talk) 10:30, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

Aloysius: Do not edit WIGO in this manner again. AMassiveGay: The initial "fuck off" seemed counterproductive to the conversation. Your point still come off as strong condemnation without it, and distracted from your main point and made the user go defensive. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png πŸŽ„LeftyGreenMario!πŸŽ„(Mod) 20:16, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

Point taken. I have just this minute apologised for my tone on Aloysius's talk page. AMassiveGay (talk) 20:20, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
I noticed too, right at the same time. We all hate the NRA. I just thought Aloysius was just attempting to have viewers roll their eyes at how NRA predictably continues to be naked and spineless, even though this risks inviting attention to it rather than the good news that New Zealand is doing something about it! I think we can try a clog entry or something, but again, this is far from new or shocking (sadly) coming from the NRA, and I do agree that this is unrelated to New Zealand overall. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png πŸŽ„LeftyGreenMario!πŸŽ„(Mod) 20:25, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
I promise I'll be good now. ;) Aloysius the Gaul 01:03, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
Stay off that potion, save it for the Romans. :P --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png πŸŽ„LeftyGreenMario!πŸŽ„(Mod) 01:10, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

Boris Johnson[edit]

Eh, I feel that his election victory belongs in WIGO Elections. However, I didn't want to screw with the polling system too badly, so I kept it here, but changed the title. I moved the original entry to the elections page. If this is a mistake, please feel free to correct it accordingly. G Man (talk) 23:03, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, I was the one who put it in WIGO initially. I guess an argument could be made for it appearing on either of them (it was an election but given how the new PM will have to deal with Brexit they will have more of an impact on global politics than normal) but I don't object to it being moved or altered or whatever. --RWRW (talk) 23:13, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
When Jair Bolsonaro won Brazil's presidential election back in October, I posted it here, but then it got moved to the Elections page. I figured that was the standard. On the other hand, I agree that Boris Johnson's election victory matters for the world in light of Brexit and all. Anyway, sorry about that, LOL. G Man (talk) 01:25, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
tedious minutiae is for wigo elections. this is actual news ergo wigo. AMassiveGay (talk) 10:32, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

Fried chicken and knife crime[edit]

not sure that this is playing on racist stereotypes. poorer communities are more afflicted by knife crime, and there is a proliferation of chicken shops in poorer communities. it would seem a logical choice to have chicken shops disseminate an anti knife crime message. my criticism, and that of the MPs in the linked article, is more that the government is doing fuck all else except moving closer to the sus laws of old, with its racist implantation intact. the association with a racist stereotype is certainly unfortunate, but i'm not sure how widespread this stereotype is, outside of America and ive only become aware of it personally from American media. I guess it wouldn't be the first time the uk has adopted elements of us culture if it is a 'thing' over here. thanks America. AMassiveGay (talk) 16:23, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

As an american, all I can think "knife crime is a problem I wish we had". ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 16:25, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
Even in America, the stereotype exists but it's hardly the biggest one (it has its origins in the Jim Crow years, when a lot of restaurants refused to serve black people; if you had to go anywhere it therefore made sense to take your own food, and fried food in general kept well and had sufficient calories to subsist off). I'd think pushing it in places like curry shops or similar would be a closer equivalent. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 17:16, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
Guess this is just a fun fact, but in China, knife registration is a thing. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png πŸŽ„LeftyGreenMario!πŸŽ„(Mod) 17:42, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
@ikanreed - if it makes you feel better, it is a problem you have. knife crime in the uk is no different to the kind of violence seen in depressed inner city communities anywhere in the world. the addition of guns makes it no more an issue than the absence of them makes it any less an issue, and the solutions will be similar here in the uk and the us - community outreach and community policing. the scaling back of these things in the uk has seen knife crime rise as a result.
been a while since we had a mass shooting here though. i'll give you that. the kind that make the headlines are a different beast with different solutions. I wonder if the focus on one problem that sparks national outrage has any consequences for dealing with a problem that maybe seen as a more local issue? AMassiveGay (talk) 18:02, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
My thought was: if the messages are aimed at knife crime, and they've been put on chicken takeaway boxes, and people are going "wow so all black people love chicken huh?!", aren't THOSE people saying that knife crime is a black problem? Seems like a pile-up of thoughts somewhere along the line. That said, it's still a stupid idea regardless of race. X Stickman (talk) 19:24, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
in London, where this scheme is to be, it is a black problem. perpetrators and victims are predominantly black. its difficult to not see it as that. this is not the case elsewhere in the country, and taken together socio economic factors make ethnicity irrelevant. crime disproportionately effects deprived areas and in London black people are disproportionately from such areas. sloppy reporting and racist sentiment make race appear the main factor.
I don't believe this scheme is inherently stupid. there is a certain amount of sense in placing an anti knife message where it might be seen. but this comes after so many outreach programs have been axed or dialled back, and community policing similarly reduced. on its own, I think is that it? as it comes with a pledge for an increase in stop and search and increased prison places, I think something a lot stronger than stupid. AMassiveGay (talk) 21:55, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
I have edited the entry I wrote about the chicken boxes so that it says, "The move has been criticized, among other reasons, for playing on the tired old trope that black people love fried chicken." Yes, another criticism included in the article I linked to is that simply putting the message on the chicken boxes just isn't enough. And I agree that associating black people with fried chicken is entirely a hand-me-down American stereotype. Twenty odd years ago, before the internet was much of a thing, most British people would have been very confused by anyone putting "fried chicken" and "racist" in the same sentence. But not anymore. Spud (talk) 09:59, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
ive looked abit more at this and it seems its being rolled out nation wide and that they do indeed think black (or more accurately BAME) people love fried chicken, and that they do indeed think knife crime is all about race. its doubly ridiculous as ive already stated naionwide ethnicity is irrelevant. AMassiveGay (talk) 14:32, 16 August 2019 (UTC)


Is it even possible to buy another country or territory in this day and age? And what of the Greenlanders themselves, what do they have to say of this? β€” Oxyaena Harass 09:27, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

As I understand it, Greenland is gradually moving towards full independence. So I do not think the people of Greenland would be at all happy about it. And I also don't think the island is really Denmark's to sell anymore. Spud (talk) 09:42, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
The US did buy what are now the US Virgin Islands from Denmark in 1917, so it has some precedent. But the culture down there was rather different from Greenland, and in any event it hardly makes it a good idea... The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 13:22, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
I very much doubt that Denmark would do to the Greenlanders what the uk did to the chagossians AMassiveGay (talk) 14:45, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
This isn't the 19th century, Trump can truly fuck off. β€” Oxyaena Harass 01:18, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
The 1917 purchase of the Virgin Islands seems to be the most recent example although it isn't entirely clear what international law would say.[2][3] Some people talk about Kiribati buying part of Fiji in this context, but that's just an ordinary land transaction, not a transfer of sovereignty.[4] --Annanoon (talk) 11:38, 19 August 2019 (UTC)


Would it be a significant faux pas if I updated the byline to this WIGO that isn't mine? 'Cause it talks about an upcoming New York seminar the bleach peddlers are trying to pull, which may be worth pointing out to the relevant people. Like hotel management. β„•oir LeSable (talk) 19:20, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

No, it should be fine. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png πŸŽ„LeftyGreenMario!πŸŽ„(Mod) 19:38, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
I also should point out that this isn't a new development as it seems. MMS has been touted as a cure for autism among anti-vaxxer circles and that has been documented for a while. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png πŸŽ„LeftyGreenMario!πŸŽ„(Mod) 19:39, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
Yeah, I've been aware of MMS since Rhys Morgan's campaign almost 10 years ago (kinda wonder what that kid is doing now). β„•oir LeSable (talk) 19:48, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
As an autistic person, anyone who forces their kid to drink bleach deserves to be put in death row. That's fucking abuse, it's disgusting. β€” Oxyaena Harass 01:15, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
It's not just drinking the bleach, even. MMS is known for being administered as enema. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png πŸŽ„LeftyGreenMario!πŸŽ„(Mod) 01:26, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

New suggestion[edit]

I think this belongs on the WIGO page. Another white nationalist has been arrested for plotting a terrorist attack. https://www.cleveland.com/crime/2019/08/youngstown-area-man-arrested-charged-with-threatening-jewish-community-center-online.html Richard Pickman (talk) 17:58, 18 August 2019 (UTC)Richard Pickman

yellowhammer redacted[edit]

concerns oil shortages and job losses AMassiveGay (talk) 14:57, 12 September 2019 (UTC)


I've noticed that there are quite a few links to paywalled sites (specifically Washington Post, doubtless an excellent organ) on WIGOs. I don't think that folk should be either expected to pay or miss out on stuff so could folk source items elsewhere please. Scream!! (talk) 15:56, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

The Washington Post is a good "news organ"? It's a fucking neoliberal propaganda machine, fuck the Post. β€” Oxyaena Harass 18:57, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
I think that's hyperbole. It has a lot of flaws, yes: it's owned by Jeff Bezos which brings up questions about its neutrality, it has some weird fact checks about Bernie Sanders like the one on 500,000 medical bankruptcies. But to call it a neoliberal propaganda machine isn't really accurate. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png πŸŽ„LeftyGreenMario!πŸŽ„(Mod) 19:53, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

TBG storey[edit]

Is 12 months old..... — Unsigned, by: 2A00:23C4:CE07:5400:E1D2:5A1C:36F2:12F0 / talk

Yes. Since the Guardian displays a big banner saying "This article is more than 1 year old" there's not much excuse for the mess-up, even if you don't know what year it is. --Annanoon (talk) 16:58, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
Also: On talk pages, please sign your comments using four tildes (~~~~) or by clicking on the sign button: SigButt.png on the toolbar above the edit panel. You can also indent successive talk page comments using one more colon (:) for each line. Thank you. --Annanoon (talk) 16:59, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

Over all the shit[edit]

they could've impeached Trump for, they decide to impeach him because he went after a rich white man's rich white son? Pathetic. β€” Oxyaena Harass 18:55, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

Well, at least it's happening. I feel like getting mad over the reason why is counter-productive. Tyrian (talk) 22:54, 29 September 2019 (UTC)
I recently heard another reason why they're doing this now, to influence the election cycle. Still cynical but it seems a better reason than revenge over a rich white man being wronged by another rich white man. β€” Oxyaena Harass 11:40, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
In any case, I think what we should focus on now is preventing a repeat of this. I think the school system is a prime reason why this happened, even if it's not the only reason, because it doesn't really teach critical thinking skills. Tyrian (talk) 12:54, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
Well that's one of them, the rich want the school system to be shit because it creates workers, not thinkers. Capitalism in general is to blame for this. β€” Oxyaena Harass 14:34, 30 September 2019 (UTC)

On Elon Musk[edit]

Is it possible he just doesn't know how to treat people? Engineers tend towards introversion, I've been told, and I wouldn't be surprised if he's on the spectrum. Is he genuinely an ass or just incredibly socially inept? Tyrian (talk) 22:50, 29 September 2019 (UTC)

Outside the armchair speculation about his personality, introversion has nothing to do with being a jerk. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png πŸŽ„LeftyGreenMario!πŸŽ„(Mod) 00:59, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
I wouldn't say that. If he's being a jerk because he's unaware, instead of actually malicious, that changes how it should be handled. If we punish him for not knowing something that he should've been told, that'll make him double down on his strategy because it's not straightforward. If we simply explain things to him and tell him that we're not faulting him for not knowing, because it's not an intuitive thing to know, it'll likely keep him from repeating his mistakes. Tyrian (talk) 11:02, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
preventing your workforce from unionising is not the result of being socially awkward. repeating calling someone on twitter a paedophile is not because they didn't now better. he is genuinely a prick of the kind created by immense wealth. AMassiveGay (talk) 13:10, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
You don't have the info to say that concretely. No one does. I personally believe he's lost his ability to relate because of his money, but that's not something he's choosing to do. I think if he could relate, he wouldn't do these things. Hence, he's unaware, not a jerk on purpose, in my eyes. Tyrian (talk) 17:14, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
According to the (British) National Autism Society "in many cases, autistic individuals are unusually concerned to keep the letter of the law, due to the nature of the disability."[5] So, nope, Autism Spectrum Disorder does not include ignorance or disregard of labor law among its symptoms. And where is the evidence that Musk is on the spectrum? Or is this just stereotyping? --Annanoon (talk) 13:21, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
Autism comes with a focus. If he were on the spectrum, engineering would be his. The law has no obvious connection with engineering. Thus, if he were on the spectrum, I think he'd neglect learning labor laws to focus on engineering.Tyrian (talk) 17:14, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
that's all kind of irrelevant. how does that make one break labour laws or make your employees work in appalling conditions? that is nothing to do with being unable to relate to others, that is all to do with maximising profit at the expense of others. he doesnt need to know every detail of labour law, he has lawyers for that job. is exploitation a feature of autism? and to say nothing of dubious financial practices. criticism relating to personality quirks or his incredibly thin skin has little to do with autism either. he runs his companies via a cult of personality hes built around himself, with many folk buying into it, maybe you have, but autism doesn't help with that. he cant have managed that without spotting social cues or not knowing how he might be perceived. why are you so keen to hand wave away criticism, absolve him of blame? we cant know for sure he isn't somewhere on the spectrum, but that goes the other way too and the only thing that you have given that he might be is that hes an engineer. this is idioticAMassiveGay (talk) 18:02, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
I'm just gonna break my responses down into tl;dr versions. First, I suspect he broke the labor laws because no one told him about them. Second, it's not his autism that makes it hard for him to relate, it's his money. He's unable to tell how he's hurting others because of this. Third, Autism is co-morbid with many conditions, it's possible he has both it and something else. Fourth, I'm not trying to absolve him of blame, I'm trying to find the best way to punish him so that it doesn't happen again. Fifth, I never stated I was being concrete about it, just that I suspected it. Tyrian (talk) 19:39, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
Who cares if he's on the spectrum, he and his board are not excused from the allowing unionisation of the workforce. Are you sure he's autistic? Are you qualified to diagnose him, without testing and relying on third hand statements via the press? He could simply be an obnoxious prick who likes to belittle anyone who disagrees with him. Might explain the fanatical, fawning and forgiving legion of fanboys who have a tendency to behave the same online. Cardinal Chang (talk) 21:16, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
I wasn't diagnosing him. I said I wouldn't be surprised he had it, not that I'm absolutely certain he has it. And excusing him was never the point. My point was to collect info to ensure an effective punishment, because I'm pretty certain we don't want this to happen again. Tyrian (talk) 23:32, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
The communists would say that the rules of capitalism necessitate capricious cruelty in pursuit of profit even if you individually want to be better. I.e. that if Elon Musk didn't mistreat employees, he'd be replaced with a CEO who did by investors. On the other hand, he's a weird psycho who accused someone who briefly critiqued his ideas of being a pedophile. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 14:16, 7 October 2019 (UTC)
Think about what his criticism actually was. Paraphrased, it was "It's a PR stunt, it won't work, shove it where it hurts." Is there anything substantial in there? There's no critiquing, no "this won't work because this." This is not a criticism, this is an insult. Following from this, consider this scenario. A bounty hunter is commissioned by someone to kill three at large criminals and asks him to bring the bodies back. The bounty hunter asks "Why not just the heads?" The client responds "Uh, no, that won't work." Now, what's implied there? "The client is a cannibal." I believe Elon felt something similar happened here. "We need to rescue these kids!" "Why don't we use my machine that I've tested to save them without risking our lives?" "Uh, no, it won't work, we need a human touch to save these kids." Elon has cause to believe Vernon was a pedophile, because he claimed the submarine wouldn't work, and didn't elaborate on why, and opted to have people risk their lives to go down into the cave to physically rescue the children. He rejected the plan to opt for one that would require the kids to be touched. I believe Elon thought "He's risking his life to physically touch children. That's what a pedo would do. He must be a pedo." and didn't think on it further because he'd had his integrity and his ability insulted, so he was too pissed off to do so.Tyrian (talk) 15:28, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
ok just stop now this is fucking moronic. you cant talk about what 'his criticism actually was' then immediately paraphrase. that ignores the part of criticism that explains the dimensions of the sub as impractical within the cave network. it also ignores repeatedly pushing his sub during the rescue operation and continuing to do so even after, using the whole thing as pr.
but that it is still irrelevant to the fact that the thin skinned musk accused the guy of being a pedophile on twitter with absolutely zero evidence or any kind inkling of suspicion to do so, repeatedly, hired a private investigator to try to dig up dirt on the guy to prove he was a pedophile and is now currently being sued as a result.
your assessment of what musk might of thought is pure asinine fantasy. there is nothing to be gained by this line of thought. I repeat. just stop now this is fucking moronic. AMassiveGay (talk) 16:52, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
Alright, here's my counter points. First, I was trying to capture the feeling of what the dude said, in a truncated form, because my post was already pretty wordy. Second, I don't recall ever being shown that part of the criticism. Could you show it to me? I apologize if I'm wrong because I lack the source of info, but I can't really do much to prove your point for you. Finally, you speak of him accusing him without evidence, when I just explained that Elon took the fact Vernon disregarded Elon's plan in favor of one that involved physically touching the kids as evidence he was a pedo, and since that's a pretty serious crime, he put effort into trying to catch him. Whether or not he was right doesn't matter at this point, because I'm not saying he was right. I'm saying that he did something wrong because of ineptitude, not evil.Tyrian (talk) 18:03, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
β€œhad absolutely no chance of working” because the inventor β€œhad no conception of what the cave passage was like”
I reiterate that what Unsworth said is irrelevant. your rationale about why musk said what he said is exactly that - YOUR rationale. its not based on any evidence at all. its not based on the conflicting statements made musk himself. its entirely your own fabrication. even if this were musk's own train of thought, its still not evidence of any kind to take any kind of action on, least of all; the actions actually taken in this matter.
its not a question a 'evil vs ineptitude' either. he hadn't misinterpreted anything, or had any kind of evidence to misinterpret. he simply reacted to mild criticism, that would have had zero impact on him if he had let it slide, with a disproportionately offensive and wholly unsubstantiated accusation. repeatedly and insistently.
there isn't any rationale or motivation for musk's behaviour that doesn't boil down to him being an arrogant prick. despite claiming you are not defending musk, pointing to autism as you did earlier or that he had a genuine but mistaken belief he really was trying to take down a sexual predator as reasons why hes done what he has, is a defense of musk by implying that he is not responsible for his actions in some way. that it isn't his fault. and it is all based on unfounded supposition.
can we stop know? this is just such a ridiculous discussion. AMassiveGay (talk) 23:13, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
Well, you can think what you want about it, but I myself believe that in order for effective punishment to occur, we need to know motivation, because otherwise we'll be in the dark, and could end up with unwanted collateral damage. You've been contesting me on this the entire time, and your claims have smelled incredibly like emotional charge, so if you want to stop this, I'll have to ask you stop talking to me, instead of me not talking to you. Now, to actually get to your points, my argument is that while Elon should be held accountable for his own behavior, he was tripped up by a false alarm that set him off when he shouldn't have been. You haven't really done much to help your case in that regard- When I asked for something concrete offered by Vernon's criticism, you used another vague statement. What would Musk have needed to know about the cave passage for his submarine to work? The layout? The size? How likely it is to cave in? Because Vernon could've filled him in on that instead of throwing a tantrum. As such, I have no reason to believe the sub wouldn't work, because no concrete factors have been offered as to why.Tyrian (talk) 12:09, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

Welsh Independence[edit]

Growing? the linked article doesn't say so. opinion polls suggest such a demand is somewhat stable, in the teens. also bear in mind that along with England, wales voted for leave during brexit. its not likely to leave the union anytime soon unless some significant change occurs. AMassiveGay (talk) 15:12, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

May we see the polls? The article doesn't show any. Also, you've phrased it rather ambiguously- do teenagers want independence, or is the percentage of people who want independence between 13% to 19.99% repeating, inclusive?Tyrian (talk) 15:00, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
do you not have google? and there is no ambiguity there, you are just an idiot AMassiveGay (talk) 15:07, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
Well, you're casting doubt on an article I have no reason to refute. I'm guessing you do, and thus, I'm trying to see if you've done the appropriate fact checking for it. The burden of proof is on you. And I described the ambiguity- "teens" could apply to the poll numbers or the age range of the people where the polls are strongest. Tyrian (talk) 15:51, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
firstly, I was commenting on the wigo making claims not in the article. that is not casting doubt on the article. but since you are unable to do anything for yourself, heres some polls. and again, there is no ambiguity if you are not an idiot, or a sealion. its tough to decide which. AMassiveGay (talk) 16:07, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
Okay, so you claim you're contesting the headline, not the article. But the article mentions that the decision it refers to follows a series of marches for independence, and you originally contested the truthfulness of the claim, saying opinion polls indicated that support for independence wasn't growing. And yet, the polls you linked to indicate the opposite- for instance, one pair showing a 7% increase over a 2 year period. So I wouldn't say the headline's a lie, nor does it mention something not in the article- the headline truncates "signs of growing support" into "growing support." Sorry I'm not doing your work for you.Tyrian (talk) 16:34, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
marches are not proof of growth, and from 2013 onward, independence consistently polled in the teens. one blip. where polling goes anywhere over that, the poll was conducted by plaid cymru - the welsh indepence party, specifically asking a question where wales remains in the eu but as independent country. Wales voted along with England to leave the eu. so yes. stable not growing. fuck off with your sealioning over a two line comment. AMassiveGay (talk) 18:28, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
Ignoring the insults for a moment, you're dismissing the outliers because of who made them, and you're claiming that increasing amounts of public displays of support for something do not indicate an increase of growth. I'm sorry you're upset, but your attempts to address my counterpoints... haven't. I'd like to think we have fact-checking standards? Tyrian (talk) 19:32, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
the spikes are all due to a literally different question being polled. a question that is moot because wales voted to leave the eu, while it asks about independence within. a question being polled by THE party for welsh independence. you don't think that makes it suspect? I can dismiss the outliers because they are just that - outliers ie they differ from the general trend, because as I said - polled a different question. now fuck offAMassiveGay (talk) 23:53, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
So "every poll I don't like was rigged by phrasing it differently?" Is that what you're telling me? Also, the polls weren't done by the party- they hired someone else to do it. It explicitly states they commissioned the polls from YouGov, which presents itself an international, non-partisan organization. You cannot dismiss it based on the party's involvement, because they didn't actually do the polling. I'm a bit confused as to why you posted this if you just wanted people to agree with you... But that's neither here nor there.Tyrian (talk) 01:49, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
you are aware of Brexit I gather? its not simply a 'rephrasing', its a fundamentally different question when you change it from independence to independence in within the eu. its as much asking about Brexit as it is welsh independence. and it is also polling a question about a set of circumstances that are literally impossible to bring about. AMassiveGay (talk) 12:23, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
and no, I don't expect people to 'just agree with me' and I would normally respond civilly if you hadn't responded with a continuation of the sealioning begun in the previous thread. so I repeat. fuck off AMassiveGay (talk) 12:26, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
So, "The polls must be rigged because Brexit can't be stopped?" Tyrian (talk) 16:18, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
you literally don't understand the argument. you're an imbecile or sealioning. neither is mutually exclusive. AMassiveGay (talk) 17:43, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
its funny because if you weren't such a lazy sealioning prick you could have just found other polls that arent so easily dismissed (but can be still considered a blip thanks due to the extraordinary situation in parliament, and certainly not enough to validate the claim from the welsh parliament that uk should be open to requests for indy refs, but that's another argument.) AMassiveGay (talk) 18:27, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

β”Œβ”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”˜Jesus christ, what happened here? Minish (talk) 08:26, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

He threw a tantrum because how dare I ask him to prove his own point? This isn't new for him. Tyrian (talk) 11:55, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

Dow, lol[edit]

The Dow has no bearing on the reality of the material economy, and requires a financial crisis, not an actual problem with the economy, like manufacturing dying, to seriously crash. Green again today. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 18:33, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

The economy's been shit for a while, it's not wise to determine if the economy is healthy on the off-chance some billionaire isn't gonna make an extra buck this week, but how it affects the average person, like most people here presumably. β€” Oxyaena Harass 19:34, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Steve Bannon buying the Telegraph? Fake news?[edit]

Given that Bannon doesn't have the money, and the story originated in one of the Telegraph's chief rivals, The Times, is this disinformation or something that's remotely plausible? It hasn't got detailed coverage outside the Times and a minor business freesheet, City AM, which makes me think it's a silly rumour. --Annanoon (talk) 16:56, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

The lack of reporting makes me doubt this one as well. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png πŸŽ„LeftyGreenMario!πŸŽ„(Mod) 18:38, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Bundestag and compulsory vaccinations[edit]

why is it 'not surprising' that afd voted against this measure? AMassiveGay (talk) 11:47, 15 November 2019 (UTC)

About that Ohio Education Bill[edit]

While I think the bill is an Extremely Bad Idea, I think the headline is pushing a misleading view. So here's the excerpt of the bill that people are concerned about:

β€œβ€Sec. 3320.03. No school district board of education... shall prohibit a student from engaging in religious expression in the completion of homework, artwork, or other written or oral assignments. Assignment grades and scores shall be calculated using ordinary academic standards of substance and relevance, including any legitimate pedagogical concerns, and shall not penalize or reward a student based on the religious content of a student's work.

So the teacher isn't FORCED to mark deliberately incorrect Creationist answers to a question about Evolution correct if I read this correctly (So less "[Creationist answer] cuz goddidit" as it wouldn't meet ordinary academic standards of substance/relevance to the curriculum, more "[Real answer] but I disagree on account of my faith.").

Of course, that's totally not how the rural/conservative religious are going to take it, and does create concerns regarding parental blowback and its impact on grades in more rural areas. IMO, this also raises concerns that this clause may allow for students with more conservative religious views to justify hateful speech in non-Science courses (Leviticus anyone?). There's a lot wrong with it, but the "forced to mark wrong answers right" approach is sensationalist. β„•oir LeSable (talk) 20:09, 15 November 2019 (UTC)

Las Vegas "work crews"[edit]

What is the source for this? The claim that people who cannot pay the fine will be press-ganged does not appear anywhere in the linked story. Hannasanarion (talk) 02:37, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

Well... yes?[edit]

Despite the unemployment rate being the lowest in fifty years, almost half of Americans work in low-wage jobs that pay less than a median annual wage of $18,000.

...duh? (talk) 10:09, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

Brexit Party[edit]

"This will make the party lose its status as the biggest British party in the European Parliament, and lose important specific parliamentary allowances." Is this true? It's not mentioned in the link. And AFAICT, they are still the largest British party in the European Parliament with 23 MEPs compared to 16 for the Liberal-Democrats. They are Non-Inscrits so assume they were never the largest European Parliament Group, but in any case they still seem to be the largest group or non group since none of the other major parties are in the same group. Alliance Party of Northern Ireland is in Renew Europe with the Liberal-Democrats but that only adds one MEP. They are no longer the joint largest party (British or otherwise) but that's not a new thing is it? [6] Maybe they will continue to collapse and this will happen in the future but it doesn't seem to have happened now. Nil Einne (talk) 16:46, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

Nobel Prize in Literature[edit]

OK, the ceremony has just taken place. But the winners of all the Nobel prizes were announced two fucking months ago. If you think one of the two people to get the Nobel Prize in Literature this year is an arsehole, I think the time for complaining about it was in October. Spud (talk) 14:57, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

I didn't know about it until just now, and I'm freshly pissed off. πŸŽ„Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoπŸŽ„Ask about our holiday specials! 18:57, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

Congratulations to Greta Thunberg[edit]

Congrats to Greta for winning TIME's Person of the Year - she deserves it, and is an inspiration to me personally.
I'm also happy the Hong Kong protestors were runner-ups; those protestors are heroes. Minish (talk) 21:41, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

Chile is also a big one. I've been avidly following the movement there in hopes they will set the precedent to overthrow neoliberalism. Colossal Squid (talk) 06:36, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

God on our side[edit]

In case anyone is wondering - I created this and down voted it because it is a very bad thing - not because I think it is not newsworthy. Aloysius the Gaul 23:47, 5 January 2020 (UTC)


The article is about an internal mandating vote for a group that represents some 10% of the Labour Party and not the actual leadership vote. Momentum members, like every other Labour Party member and registered supporter, can vote for whomever they like. So what's the fuss? You have a problem with the internal mechanics of your organisation, hustle and shake - it's not a huge group. LondonGrump (talk) 09:09, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Agree. This isn't WIGO, it has nothing to do with the mission. It's a relatively minor activist bloc in a party membership, it's not 'North Korea'. Worth noting that Euromec, the person who added this, previously called Momentum - the most radically mild-mannered reformist group I've ever interacted with - 'the Corbyn cult that is Momentum' in WIGOE. (since edited, obviously) Not sure what axe they have to grind with Momentum but could they keep it out of WIGO + WIGOE Minish (talk) 14:40, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
it doesn't have to be missional, its wigo. a poorly worded one mind, but still wigo. Momentum are dogshit though. AMassiveGay (talk) 14:46, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
lol ok Minish (talk) 14:47, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Democrat gerrymandering WIGO[edit]

Are we really going to use the Daily Wire to score points against the Democratic Party? --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png πŸŽ„LeftyGreenMario!πŸŽ„(Mod) 19:36, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

Yes. β€” Oxyaena Harass 23:32, 19 January 2020 (UTC)
If you want to present a story, use another source, not a suspicious source. Until Daily Wire cleans up their clown act, don't even bother linking to them, even if the story isn't spinning harder than a top inside a tornado. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png πŸŽ„LeftyGreenMario!πŸŽ„(Mod) 06:03, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, it seems to me if you are posting something, there's no purpose doing so if nearly everyone who bothers to look into the details are going to decide it's probably just lies or at best exaggerations and spins. How does it just help you make your point? Are you just hoping enough people won't bother to check the details? Nil Einne (talk) 01:53, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
What's known is that New York's population is declining and the state may lose up to 2 Congressional districts. New York City however has until recently been less affected by population decline than upper New York state, so I don't know exactly what impact there will be to the city to be honest. A catch is that New York has a new redistricting policy designed to prevent gerrymandering somewhat, and AOC's district is known as super-safe. The Intercept (I know) is the most credible story I've found on any district eliminating stuff with her, it's mostly an interview with Ocasio-Cortez. She is aware of the potential that her district will be redrawn, but also right that her name recognition among progressives and minorities is strong, her net favorability among Democrats is huge last I saw, and that she would probably defeat a lot of incumbents in quite a number of NYC districts if push came to shove. The Washington Examiner, Townhall, and Daily Wire are ones that love to speculate on this issue, as they are hard right websites with mixed to shit factual record (occasionally they are useful for reporting from inside the populist conservative bubble, but that's it), and love the sort of fanciful thinking where AOC is somehow wished away (either that, or they love harping on a bogeywoman of their own making). Soundwave106 (talk) 02:35, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
@Nil Einne I got it from Discord, I didn't pay too much attention to who the article was from. I should've payed more attention. Mea culpa. β€” Oxyaena Harass 13:24, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

New data[edit]

right here --2001:8003:4085:8100:E095:2814:8FF7:FB7D (talk) 08:16, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

Do you have a source isn't a blatant christian propaganda machine? Tuxer (talk) 12:42, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

President Donald Trump's Executive Order on Combating Human Trafficking and Online Child Exploitation in the United States[edit]

Newsworthy executive order from the President. Like I says in the executive order, "As the United States continues to lead the global fight against human trafficking, we must remain relentless in resolving to eradicate it in our cities, suburbs, rural communities, tribal lands, and on our transportation networks. Human trafficking in the United States takes many forms and can involve exploitation of both adults and children for labor and sex." Can someone add this to What's Going On In The World? -- (talk) 17:57, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

Graham Linehan article[edit]

Ireland has been an independent nation since 1922 so why does it have a Union Flag next to it? Fix up, Little Briton, fix up. LondonGrump (talk) 09:22, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

What? Minish (talk) 09:49, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
It has the Union Flag because the event affects both Ireland and the UK. Tuxer (talk) 22:24, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

The article is now gone, giving a 404 for me. I was wondering if it was false but I found [7] showing a Tweet suggesting he was really doing something so I'm not sure why it was removed. Of course assuming it isn't prevented for legal reasons, whyever they removed it, this common modern practice of just randomly deleted article rather than at least leaving an explanation is something very annoying and confusing. Nil Einne (talk) 15:14, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

Actually reading that more carefully it does mention Linehan threated litgation over the headline since he's helping someone compile a database rather than compile it himself. I assume that's why it was removed. Nil Einne (talk)
I replaced the original article link with an archive snapshot. --Cosmikdebris (talk) 20:01, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

Fixed some spelling errors on the article. Hopefully there's no other ones--Boredsocialist (talk) 11:27, 29 April 2020 (UTC)