User talk:Human/Archive3

This is an archive page, last updated 4 February 2009. Please do not make edits to this page.

Archives for this talk page:

<0>, <1>, <2>, <4>, <5>, <6>, <7>, <8>, <9>, <10>, <11>, <12>, <13>, <14>, <15>, <16>, <17>, <18>, <19>, <20>, <21>, <22>, <23>, <24>, <25>, <26>, <27>, <28>, <29>, <30>, <31>, <32>, <33>

, (new)(back)

7/19/07 or so.

How to Contribute

Human, you're in authority and we have an understanding [sic]. Can I ask what exactly I am supposed to do on this wiki? I am a little confused.Bohdan 14:55, 24 May 2007 (CDT)

Well, I don't know about "authority", I view sysopism as more of a responsibility? But I will try to answer your question with a bullet list:

1. Have fun. Please. Some of us take that out by blocking each other for one second. OK, that's childish. We also call each other names and stuff. But if your idea of fun is something else, please exercise it.
2. See #1
3. Write articles and essays. I bet you have some ideas that actually fit in with the "creed" of this site (roughly, debunking irrationality), so feel free to write about them. Mainspace pieces are to be community edited; essays are essentially "yours" to work on, others are free to use the talk page to comment.
4. Have fun. Eat pizza. Make silly userboxes. Make serious userboxes.
5. Help people out with things they are working on, as on any wiki. Check recent changes, if a subject interests, go see if you can make it better.
6. Have fun. As an old column in F&S used to be called, "Exit Laughing".
7. Vandalize GodlessLiberal's talk page for me.
8. Have fun. Our goals and purposes are serious; but if we weren't having fun, Jack would be a very dull boy indeed.

I hope this helps?

PS One way to "have fun" is to do whatever you feel constrained not to do on CP. Not that this site is the "anti-CP", but it's a way to think about this liberation. human^{be in} 15:03, 24 May 2007 (CDT)

How do I archive?

It just got a whole lot easier, thanks to Stevo. Just put this at the top of your talk page: {{talkpage}} and it will make a box like the one at the top of my talk page, with a place to click to make the new archive. I think. human^{be in} 20:55, 28 June 2007 (CDT)

I've just corrected the template name in your comment. And yes, it will! -- Stevo (talk) 07:50, 29 June 2007 (CDT)

Bohdan's Litter Box

Dear Bohdan, kindly feel free to use this space for your latest awesome pwnage! human^{be in} 17:13, 23 June 2007 (CDT)

Block

We all WANT to, but shouldn't say it. Tmtoulouse 22:33, 20 June 2007 (CDT)

Every once in a while, I will do it for "many" of us. And I could afford the minute... which took forever to end! Now, back to productive editing and learning from each other! Y reed a book wen we kan right won? human^{be in} 22:36, 20 June 2007 (CDT)

What is interesting about this, not complaining actually, but it is fascinating, that Human and other sysops are allowed to block themselves, and he has done so many times for such comments, but they never approach the length I was blocked for, and he has lashed out more than a dozen times. Perhaps sysops should be given special breaks, and I tend to agree with that. --TK_/MyTalk 12:56, 21 June 2007 (CDT)

Actually, I think this was my second "real" block. Of course there have been other times I thought someone might block me, but it did not happen. As is the case for many - outrageous behaviour is often just ignored. By the way, this block was done by someone else, the earlier one I did because the plaintiffs asked me to for cause and it was jsut as easy to get me to do it as another sysop. I believe your blocks also started in the minute range. human^{be in} 13:10, 21 June 2007 (CDT)

What happened to "never again participate in community life?" olliegrind 13:04, 21 June 2007 (CDT)

I didn't realzie this page was one about community rules and procedures, Ollie. But if it is, just say I lied, like most of you do, daily, lol. --TK_/MyTalk 13:08, 21 June 2007 (CDT)

I read "community life" and "unjoin" as you wanted to be done with the entire RW site. My bad, dawg. olliegrind 13:12, 21 June 2007 (CDT)

Perhaps email notification should be sent of the blocks. I propsed that many times on CP to no avail. I would hate to think people miss out on knowing they have them. And perhaps a block for a sysop should be tripled, or quadrupled, since they are supposed to know better....:p

Anyway, except for Trent's deceitful 404 block, I never knew I had any of the others, some until days later, reading my page. No complaints, I fully agree some sort of punishment was called for, at least for the cursing.

Ollie, they only way I would quit, would be for my pages to be deleted. They refuse to do so, although they give no notification up-front that unlike other sites, you cannot delete your shit. ;-) --TK_/MyTalk 13:18, 21 June 2007 (CDT)

Re: retirement, I'm working on a compromise offer, should have it ready in an hour or two, have to run some "RL" errands... As far as blocks, what we do is leave a note on the user's talk page. Then when they return they will have a new message, although on a busy talk page it might not be obvious, I suppose. C'est la vie :( human^{be in} 13:26, 21 June 2007 (CDT)

If you want, I'm sure we could bury it under a mass of junk, spam, and scrawlings that it would be as good as deleted ... ;-) --ויִכִּ נתֶּרֶפּרֶתֵּר ^{שְׁלֹום!}

Wiki, you mean that procedure I have pointed out several times, that is always denied, and Tren claims not to know about ? --TK_/MyTalk 13:45, 21 June 2007 (CDT)

I'm personally talking making a sock account, going into your talk page and repeatedly typing <big><big><big><big><big><big><big></big>TKwedge pwns, lol</big></big></big></big></big></big>

and filling all the history with that. --ויִכִּ נתֶּרֶפּרֶתֵּר ^{שְׁלֹום!}

LMAO!! --TK_/MyTalk 14:11, 21 June 2007 (CDT)

I ignored my "compromise" re: your graceful retirement, since 1. you showed no curiosity about it and 2. you are still active here, so apparently it's an irrelevant topic. But I'll remember it if you ever do bring it up again, in case you're interested. human^{be in} 21:54, 21 June 2007 (CDT)

No, actually I was waiting for you to return in two hours, as you posted, so that is why I was "active" as you say. But since Ames is working on some arbitration deal, maybe you should check with AmesG. Not to be a cynic, 7 out 10 members polled told me anything you would come up with would neither be graceful or a compromise. However I will keep your willingness in mind, should Ames efforts fall through. Thanks for your consideration, Human. --TK_/MyTalk 01:35, 22 June 2007 (CDT)

Ah, ok. Well, it was pretty simple, maybe not exactly what you want, but simple. I created a template called "retired", which is neutral in content, saying that the user wished to leave for private reasons. Your user page would be blanked or archived, and your talk archived, and the template placed on both pages, and then they would be protected from editing. Let me see if I can make a link to the template: template:retired. Tell me what you think, if AmesG hasn't "made you a better offer". human^{be in} 11:10, 22 June 2007 (CDT)

PS, where's that poll? human^{be in} 11:14, 22 June 2007 (CDT)

I'm a bit curious about that myself. I wasn't asked, and clearly you weren't. Could this possibly be a Schlafly Statistic? --Kels 16:01, 22 June 2007 (CDT)

Ref the template, I have placed it on my user pages, please would someone take a look and protect them? Cheers. לול 16:11, 22 June 2007 (CDT)

I've protected your user page, user talk page and talk page archive, Lulz. I hope you return at some point; I'll be happy to unprotect if you do, and I'm sure any other sysop will as well. --jtl^talk 20:11, 22 June 2007 (CDT)

Tmtoulouse reverted the protect on the talk page, on the theory that they're community property. That seems reasonable to me, but we need to remember to make it clear only the user page will be locked. --jtl^talk 21:31, 22 June 2007 (CDT)

I object and re will re-protect it and argue with Tmt on his talk page about it. The point is to leave a clean template and not a place for defacement. As far as "community property", that's why it is archived. Nothig is being deleted, so I see no problem, as long as the user truly "retires". OK? human^{be in} 16:52, 23 June 2007 (CDT)

My sig…

is infinitely cooler than yours. And yes, I'm being phenomenally slack, and talking about unimportant nonsense. Don't really have time to do anything else, though. --GdlessLiberal 12:47, 22 June 2007 (CDT)

Your sig breaks at a line end. You should try to fix that. It's important work! Come argue over Intelligent Design and Academic Freedom with us! It's today's class project! human^{be in} 12:55, 22 June 2007 (CDT)

My apologies for my nonsense insults of your sig. I erm... wasn't myself. GdlessLiberal 17:59, 22 June 2007 (CDT)

But your sig is cooler than mine... now :) human^{be in} 20:23, 22 June 2007 (CDT)

That is a damn cool sig. Now I am jealous. -- jtl^talk 21:30, 22 June 2007 (CDT)

Why, what the matter with yours? human^{be in} 01:25, 23 June 2007 (CDT)

That isn't my sig above! Human has plagarized it! But oh, it's so cool. I'm going to try it now. GdlessLiberal 15:03, 23 June 2007 (CDT)

I like how it accidentally looks a bit like the Godfather logo now. And shouldn't that H&S be gold or yellow? Freakin' terrorist lovin', Amerika-hatin' kommie! human^{be in} 15:10, 23 June 2007 (CDT)

Wooooooooooooooooo! I fixed it. Switched the colors, though. Wait, Heart's a kommie, or me? GdlessLiberal 15:12, 23 June 2007 (CDT)

Damn, my G fell off. GdlessLiberal 15:13, 23 June 2007 (CDT)

Protecting talk pages

I really am not so sure about protecting user talk pages, I understand the users actual page but the talk page is not there page and their presence or absence from RW should not affect it. Tmtoulouse 16:57, 23 June 2007 (CDT)

I see it as eliminating a target for crap that would have to be dealt with - if they are retired, there is no need for any editing on their talk page. You know, like my wandalism of TK's talk page when he retired for the third or fourth time. But I will, of course, bow to the judgement of the mob! If they aren't protected and don't cause any problems, my argument is of course empty. Should I edit the template so if no sysop is spec'd, the "inquire" link goes away? So it can actually be used on his page? How do you feel about having an "inquiry" link on the retired template at all? human^{be in} 17:01, 23 June 2007 (CDT)

Your edit

I do not disapprove of this edit. I was trying to make a point, however. I do not think (and I hope I am right) that the brief explaination of ID was intended to classify an article fundementally on academic freedom into the category of pseudoscience. I have tried to address this for now by editing the category page, but hope some better alternative evolves. See my recent contributions to the IDAF talk page. Heart♥Gold ^tx 20:19, 23 June 2007 (CDT)

I think if the article was "fundementally on academic freedom" that AF should have come before ID in the title. Do you think it should be renamed? Then we can have Academic Freedom and Anti-Semitism, Academic Freedom and Multicultural Studies, etc., etc. Oh, and Academic Freedom and Prayer in the USAF Academy. Right now, with ID first, ID becomes the focus. And, in fact, all the AF issues in it are to do with ID - which is not a science - and issues that swirl around whether it is science or not. (PS, it's a religious doctrine) human^{be in} 20:26, 23 June 2007 (CDT)

Why so defensive? The ID and AF article falls squarely into the category of pseudoscience. If it was AF and anti-Semitism, it wouldn't. If it was AF and Holistic Medicine, it would. You can argue for your point of view, but on a wiki there will be others, as well. And your point of view, in spite of disclaimers, seems to be 1) a sense of ownership of this article and its meaning, and 2) being defensive of ID's intrusions into academia as "science", where it does not belong. human^{be in} 20:34, 23 June 2007 (CDT)

Too many battles going on at the same time, and I am outnumbered. Heart♥Gold ^tx 20:44, 23 June 2007 (CDT)

I know, I think many who are here now felt the same way at CP. Except there, they ban for lack of ideological purity ;) So you do have my sympathy, if not agreement. How about taking a breather and trying to put together something less, um, divisive? Like another AF article? Or a favorite recipe ;) I like the idea of Academic Freedom and Anti-Semitism being explored - it's a bit off topic for the site, but the way the ideologies explode around it makes it interesting. And we'll get to create an article about Alan Dershowitz! human^{be in} 21:07, 23 June 2007 (CDT)

Pseudoscience

Please review what I have done with the pseudoscience category and sub-categories and let me know what you think. Tmtoulouse 12:23, 25 June 2007 (CDT)

Hey T, I have enough files "watched" that I see everything you do from the sidelines ;) Looking good - I like the multiple subcats; I like the several "Portals". Generally, "in the ansence of a demurral, you can take my response to be in the affirmative" (stolen from No Way Out... "I think he likes you") human^{be in} 12:45, 25 June 2007 (CDT)

And when you have a chance, check out the talk page on cp:AAPS.--PalMD^{-yada yada} 12:24, 25 June 2007 (CDT)

Doc, I'm not here to read a book, I'm trying to write one! I'll go check it out... human^{be in} 12:45, 25 June 2007 (CDT)

Category sorting & template

Thanks for that suggestion, over the last day or so I'd been looking to see if there was an easier way to do it than edit all the articles. There doesn't seem to be, so jtl's suggestion was pretty much there, and I thanked him for doing all the hard work there.

BTW, if you like, you can now also add the {{talkpage}} template to your archives; it'll look like this, well until someone makes it prettier.

--Stevo (talk) 13:16, 25 June 2007 (CDT)

Yes, I saw that, cool. I left a quick comment/request at the talk page for the template... human^{be in} 13:18, 25 June 2007 (CDT)

You can also edit the date shown in the template to match the actual date the archive was done - see {{talkpage}} --Stevo (talk) 13:36, 25 June 2007 (CDT)

Block II

hey, I think this edit crossed the line, so I blocked you for a minute. Be careful, your next block will be 2 minutes! --jtl^talk 23:57, 25 June 2007 (CDT)

Damn, and I thought I was just being honest. But you're probably right. TK is not a twit, really. I'll be more careful next time. Or, at least, use new words! I did, however, start a discussion at the sysop/admin abuse page where people can school me in civilized behaviour. So sorry. human^{be in} 00:00, 26 June 2007 (CDT)

Did you get a chance to listen to Peter Power video

Did you find this? If so, is this well known in the UK, dismissed? Heart♥Gold ^tx 20:10, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

I hadn't gone there, no. I appreciate the link, but chasing coincidences isn't really my thing. Maybe I'll watch it later, getting my Mike Malloy on right now. Oh, and I wouldn't know if it well known in the UK. I'm just from there, but a long time ago. human^{be in} 20:14, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

Coincidence theories

Well, the article on Chickenhawks might qualify...but have you seen Flight of the ChickenHawks from toostupidtobepresident.com? Clever. Heart♥Gold ^tx 22:35, 28 June 2007 (CDT)

HeHeHeHe... you notice the primary source... the NH Gazette... my local "pick it up and read" paper. The editor once wrote a brilliant essay on the scandal of privatizing social security. But, I ramble... what was the point? I slightly edited your link so it would be blue ;) human^{be in} 01:39, 29 June 2007 (CDT)

Okay. Heart♥Gold ^tx 17:47, 29 June 2007 (CDT)

Change?

No longer a Bureaucrat, Human? --UL 21:00, 29 June 2007 (CDT)

Oh, gee, dang, you're right, Underwriter's Laboratories! Thanks for tipping me off! Cheerio, human^{be in} 21:06, 29 June 2007 (CDT)

Stalking

Quit wikistalking, you son of a bastard. Jeb Berkeley 17:52, 1 July 2007 (CDT)

Quit adding unfunny wandalism then, and leave my grandparents out of this. human^{be in} 17:57, 1 July 2007 (CDT)

Shiny

You got promotey power too? ɧєɭıסş^{-get sunburn!} 01:44, 2 July 2007 (CDT)

I think so, maybe... what promotion do you desire? You're already a sysop, which I would have gladly made you. Ask and you shall receive - if it is within my powerz. human^{be in} 02:50, 2 July 2007 (CDT)

Eh? what's this about? ɧєɭıסş^{-get sunburn!} 03:40, 2 July 2007 (CDT)

Hmm, well, I liked how you changed your user page title. I also told DanH to Godspeed hisself. Which was your question referring to? human^{be in} 03:50, 2 July 2007 (CDT)

I wasn't sure where one started and the other ended lol. I thought it was all directed at either me or DanH, and wasn't sure which. ɧєɭıסş^{-get sunburn!} 04:12, 2 July 2007 (CDT)

Promotely power

Promote me too. I would like more power. Wait, maybe not. What is available? Heart♥Gold ^tx 08:46, 2 July 2007 (CDT)

Well, usually, opening up the intake and exhaust tracts to make them freer-flowing will get you some more power, though usually at the cost of more noise. Of course, you can always slap a supercharger on, as well. Or I could lend you my generator, good for about 5 kW in a pinch. You could also appoint yourself the official director of something here at RW. I would make you a knight - not sure if I can, but I could try - but such titles are not recognized here in the colonies. human^{be in} 14:44, 2 July 2007 (CDT)

Okay, I want to head of Constitutional Studies. Heart♥Gold ^tx 20:40, 2 July 2007 (CDT)

Let it be so, then! Feel free to make yourself a cool userbox indicating such. Don't forget that just as with great power comes great responsibility, so with extreme glamour comes the burden of extreme fabulousness! human^{be in} 20:44, 2 July 2007 (CDT)

I don't see anything different. Heart♥Gold ^tx 00:52, 3 July 2007 (CDT)

Ah, sorry. I left a certificate of proclamation on your talk page. human^{be in} 13:36, 3 July 2007 (CDT)

OOOOOO

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

Good, I feel better now.ɧєɭıʘ§^{-Яєşιɗєɳʈ Ŝʋɲ ɠØɖ} 14:28, 2 July 2007 (CDT)

That wasn't me! ɧєɭıסş^{-get sunburn!} 00:23, 3 July 2007 (CDT)

I'm innocent!

You're friend was PalMD, not me. ɧєɭıסş^{-get sunburn!} 19:59, 2 July 2007 (CDT)

I had a friend? Wow... human^{be in} 20:05, 2 July 2007 (CDT)

Dude, you're in ultra-funny mode tonight. That comment on Pal's talk page almost had me wet myself.-αmεσG 21:37, 2 July 2007 (CDT)

Heh, thanks, I try. Loved that new CP UXB, by the way, so I immortalized it as template:User_trusworthy. have to add it to the CP subcat now... human^{be in} 22:03, 2 July 2007 (CDT)

That userbox you made...

There already is one. Look here. ɧєɭıסş^{-get sunburn!} 00:21, 3 July 2007 (CDT)

Wait let me find it... ɧєɭıסş^{-get sunburn!} 00:22, 3 July 2007 (CDT)

Got it. ɧєɭıסş^{-get sunburn!} 00:22, 3 July 2007 (CDT)

That figures... and I almost used that title, too! I think mine has the prettierz, though... human^{be in} 00:24, 3 July 2007 (CDT)

The more the merrier! ɧєɭıסş^{-get sunburn!} 00:25, 3 July 2007 (CDT)

Exactly! People will have a wide choice of decorating schemes at RW, as well as plenty of goat! Oh, man, this site is growing fast! human^{be in} 00:35, 3 July 2007 (CDT)

PS, I like the new sig format you're using. Some people's take up 3 lines in an edit box... human^{be in} 00:35, 3 July 2007 (CDT)

Our Friend (no, not that one, the other one)

FYI--PalMD^-Goatspeed! 21:17, 4 July 2007 (CDT) Also, this--PalMD^-Goatspeed! 21:19, 4 July 2007 (CDT)

If you ever feel like doing some cleaning up...

I've compiled a list of redirects with few links and put it on my sandbox page. I think I'll get jtl onto it as well. Have fun! -- Stevo (talk) 12:35, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

Sysop

If you make me a sysop, just dont give it to that other idiot.--PalMD^-Goatspeed! 14:44, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

Where do I find my new superpowers?--PalMD^-Goatspeed! 17:54, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

You should have an extra tab at the top of each page marked "delete". Great for getting rid of mispelled article titles, useless redirects, etc. In a number of places, depending on what you are looking at, you will see "block user" links. I suggest you practice on some innocent RWers to get used to how it works. The software is smart, if you enter "1 minute" it ends it on time. You will also see irritating red exlamation points next to articles in recent changes or your watchlist - those mean that no sysop has yet "marked as patrolled" that edit. We are a bit lazy about this, but it can be useful. marking them as patrolled means a sysop has checked that they aren't vandalism. Oh, yes, you'll also have a "protect" tab that we really don't use. Now you know how CP sysops win all their arguments! human^{be in} 17:59, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

For whatever reason, my new found superpowers still appear to be latent. --PalMD^-Goatspeed! 18:03, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

Cool!!! I'm gonna go to the parking structure and test out my flying powerssssss.!!!!!--PalMD^-Goatspeed! 18:06, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

There should also be some new links at the bottom of Special:Specialpages. --jtl^talk 19:06, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

"Outsider"

Perhaps one of the reasons is that I have a grand total of two edits to Conservapedia (the first to mainspace and the second to someone's talk page asking why the first got reverted. No response yet), as opposed to the hundreds of sockpuppets people here have had... Mike K 19:38, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

Eh, that's mostly myth and rumor, except for a few fanatics. We have editors who have integrated perfectly smoothly into our peanut butter/chocolate mix who never edited at CP. In fact, in some ways less CP experience is better, as weaning some of ourselves off the CP obsession is slow going. Anyway, check out the main space articles and you might have a better idea of what we think we want to be. human^{be in} 19:42, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

Any good examples? Mike K 20:02, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

Some random ones (some might need work, hmmm):

• Behe:The Edge of Evolution, Interview
• Liberal talk radio
• Propaganda
• Pseudoscience
• Reality_Based
• Second Law of Thermodynamics

and try the random button? human^{be in} 20:10, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

Welcome Templates

Template:Welcome and Template:Welcome/IP. ɧєɭıסş^{-get sunburn!} 20:32, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

Too much CP, but plenty of goat. Can you get rid of the CP stuff, link to the TOC article and the guidelines, and put a usage guide below a noinclude? If I don't, first... Thanks, by the way! human^{be in} 20:36, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

Sorry about the campaign, but no one is even bothering to post there... I'm trying to at least find out whether or not I'm going to get demoted. ɧєɭıסş^{-get sunburn!} 20:37, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

And yeah, sure. ɧєɭıסş^{-get sunburn!} 20:37, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

No need to apologize, remember, we all hate each other here! And appreciate the new templates, let's whip them into prime shape tonight. What are the best links do you think to greet newcomers (signed in) with? human^{be in} 20:40, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

Can I pick out the colors? --jtl^talk 20:44, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

Sure, as long as they are good. Tasteful I don't care about, but they should look good. And who am I to say? I do kinda like the original tinky-winky pinky purple, though. human^{be in} 20:50, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

Damn. That conditional takes all the fun out of it. Well, some of the fun. I may do some experimenting later tonight. --jtl^talk 20:53, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

Hehe, knock yourself out. I'll get over it. human^{be in} 20:56, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

I have to go soon, good luck with those things. ɧєɭıסş^{-get sunburn!} 21:04, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

Quickie

Can you help adjust the text color for this template? Thanks. Template:User Hineimatov --PalMD^-Goatspeed! 11:26, 6 July 2007 (CDT)

Done, if white is ok with you. human^{be in} 12:23, 6 July 2007 (CDT)

Somehow, turning it white made the actual text uglier...if you don't have any ideas, ill work on it.--PalMD^-Goatspeed! 12:25, 6 July 2007 (CDT)

Play with the backgournd color, too. Under "info-c" is the background color; "info-fc" is the font color (if you get rid of the font color tags I added). Colors can either be the sixteen or so that can be named (white, red, blue, green, black, etc.) or in hex - six digits, which are three pair of 0-255 hex numbers, R, then G, then B: "FFFFFF" = white. Fully saturated color, 255-255-255. Black is 000000. Bright red is FF0000. Look around for color that look good to you and see what they used. But I'd try black text on white first. Since it's a link, "info-fc" won;t work, of course, you have ot use the font color tags inside the link brackets to overrride the "blue" of the link. Maybe blue link color on white will be good enough? I'll try that for you. human^{be in} 12:30, 6 July 2007 (CDT)

Weird

I thought you might find this weird. Wouldn't you think a site call blogs4brownback wouldn't insult brownback? No to say that the rest of the article isn't similiarly crazy. Thunderkatz 14:08, 6 July 2007 (CDT)

Thanks

Thanks for the grammarfication and all that. Is my not-really-a-details-kinda-guy showing? I think I sent more than one English teacher to an early retirement. Tmtoulouse 12:45, 7 July 2007 (CDT)

You're welcome. It wasn't much, really. You just sounded a bit tired, and there were some signs of rewriting that hadn't been cleaned up. I just added a phat chunk to bible, too. By the way, whatever happened to keeping discussions on one page, you bum? human^{be in} 13:00, 7 July 2007 (CDT)

Consider it my act of defiance under the yoke of responsibility :). Tmtoulouse 13:08, 7 July 2007 (CDT)

Random motto

Does that <choose> thing actually work? If so, way cool, and better than what I have. But if not and you're just getting started, check out the main page template talk page -- I got {{Random subpage}} working. --jtl^talk 19:24, 9 July 2007 (CDT)

Not yet, wondering if it might have to be installed? I'll check yours out now, thanks! human^{be in} 19:25, 9 July 2007 (CDT)

Help me be readable?

Could you do your englishification of my article Autism omnibus trial? It would be appreciated. Tmtoulouse 16:56, 10 July 2007 (CDT)

Sure, proofreading right now, I'll copyedit later. Quick question, in the build up to trial section it says "Finally, in June 2007 the first test case was heard over a three span of time". Is that days or weeks? human^{be in} 17:45, 10 July 2007 (CDT)

I dug in, T. and hoep I did well. Well I knwo there were some places where you might have been tired ;) But please re-read it and make sure I didn't wreck it in my copy-editing enthusiasm. By the way, I don't care what HG thinks, it's a well-written article! Thank you for the honor of working on it. human^{be in} 01:29, 12 July 2007 (CDT)

I see you are still working on it... give me a heads up when you want me to try to do more copyediting on it, if you think it still needs it. I just fixed a few typos that I thought I would already have made gone by now. Maybe I added them! human^{be in} 12:58, 13 July 2007 (CDT)

Yes thank you for the work you did, it helped a lot, I am still tweaking things here and there. I am trying to get the whole autism package thing done as I think I can use it to show around to the "outside" world what RW can be and maybe recruit some users. tmtoulouse ^torment 13:01, 13 July 2007 (CDT)

You're welcome. I think I need to add the "science" portal to the main page TOC thing soon. I guess I should put it on your todo list, though I may wait until it's done. I love adding "finished" things to todo lists! human^{be in} 13:05, 13 July 2007 (CDT)

Science portal should all ready be on there I think..........its depressingly long at the moment. tmtoulouse ^torment 13:07, 13 July 2007 (CDT)

Not that you're an expert but...

I've started Sex toys but need to go to bed early as I have to take mine hubby to the dentist in the am. If you don't have anything else to do tonight, why don't you try you hand at fleshing it out a bit? Thanx. ~~ CЯacke® 22:51, 10 July 2007 (CDT)

Heh, by the time I got there all I needed to do was add my little "flag" thing and the category. Some other pervert beat me to it. They dove in hell bent for leather. human^{be in} 00:22, 11 July 2007 (CDT)

that person....

that was me. forgot to sign in. Д^ιЯɖі$ɧ _ɥοםЄʟ^{βЯƏакĐΩωΝ} 15:17, 11 July 2007 (CDT)

Spelling consistency

Philistine! How dare you take out your rage on an innocent "u"! --Kels 15:44, 11 July 2007 (CDT)

Only becuae the first use in that parqagraph didn't have one. I woulda went commonwealth on the spelling, but that would have meant checking for missing u's and silly z's all over the article. Of course, if as the major editor you prefer to use the spelling upon which the sun never sets (throughout the article), I won't revert it! human^{be in} 15:47, 11 July 2007 (CDT)

redirects

FYI--format for a redirect:

#REDIRECT [[article to redirect to]]

ŠтΈṜȳŁЁ^and...? 15:52, 11 July 2007 (CDT)

Thanks... there's supposed to be a button in the damn tool bar, but mine never loads (mox. 1.7.13), and it is so different than all the other wikistensions! It should be [[redirect:foobar]] or {{redirect|barfoo}}. Really a pain. human^{be in} 16:05, 11 July 2007 (CDT)

O valiant Admin ...

... could you run a check-user on Fox? I'm trying to work out if he's a certain vandal - post in Cabal forum. Thanks. --ויִכִּ נתֶּרֶפּרֶתֵּר ^{שְׁלֹום!}

I don't think I have checkuser - can you check the user list for someone who does? human^{be in} 14:33, 13 July 2007 (CDT)

You're a bureaucrat! Grant yourself it! Just kidding - I'll go bother someone else. --ויִכִּ נתֶּרֶפּרֶתֵּר ^{שְׁלֹום!}

Look at Special:Listusers. ŠтΈṜȳŁЁ^and...? 14:40, 13 July 2007 (CDT)

Haha, you're right, I could. But then I'd to learn how to use it, and how not to abuse it. I pretty much blew my bureau-wad by demoting Stevo to sysop - and he seems to have blocked himself and gone away. Sheesh. Hope he comes back, my endorsement looks weak if they go bye-bye right after I demote them! human^{be in} 14:42, 13 July 2007 (CDT)

PS, anyone think I should archive this mess soon? human^{be in} 14:42, 13 July 2007 (CDT)

Goat Pilaf

You didn't share your goat pilaf recipe, so I had to construct my own. --Hojimachong 22:51, 13 July 2007 (CDT)

Sooooooo.... how was the goat? --هوجيماشونغ 01:30, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Yummy, thanks - I had mine on pizza. Your pilaf looks... yummy! though! Nice work. human^{be in} 14:12, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Controlled pwn

pwned Bohdan 23:33, 13 July 2007 (CDT)

my "talk" to Bohdan

I said "Hello my friend :) All of the above, as said, spoken. You are the funniest person on CP - not that CP matters, here? I am just glad that you turn up once in a while and say "hello"? Uh, did you want to get blocked for a few minutes? I could do thst, as I have the Almighty Powerr! Haha human^{be in} 00:05, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

But by the time I posted it, he was "gone". We miss you , my favorite Ukrainian (and I have slept with two!) 00:05, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Human, I hope you were kidding, as this makes me very angry. Bohdan 00:10, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Kidding about which part? Here in the northeast US, we have many immigrants (of which I am one!), of whom I have very much enjoyed the company - and more - helped with ESL on grad school projects, and also enjoyed the story of their lives. What makes you angry? I do not mean to anger you. And, I am sorry in advance for doing so. human^{be in} 00:18, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

I'm not angry, i just get a little wound up over things like this. I realize that this is not the case with you, but I hate people involved with this: [1] [2]. I know its un-Christ like to hate, but I do. Bohdan 00:20, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

I hope my outburst doesn't damage our valuable relationship Bohdan 00:32, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Hey, I don't know how that UN thing applies, sorry. Does it matter that I still think you are only person on CP with sense of hunor? And our relationsdhop is deeper, I hope, than CP or RW? You are funny guy, and also a person who lives in a very difficult place in the world? As if I have to elaborate? By the way, you know I admire your english, right? It's eh, far better the my Ukrainian! Mmaking you smarter than any of us! human^{be in} 00:40, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Then, as long as we are on good standing, I shall once again depart. (by the way, I currently live in the US) Bohdan 00:42, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

All I can say is, I did not mean to offend you. You are stateside? Whoa, so that is so weird, you get to do what I did years ago - try to figure out Americans and their weirdness, I have befriended a few.And a few foreighners (wow, spelling!). I hope you are enjoying this crazy country and it's weird politics? As I am? human^{be in} 00:50, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

I'm am not, nor ever was offended by you. last week Ukraine was downgraded in the Human trafficking area, and I am still quite angry. But, trust me, American politics are way better than Putin/poison politics. If you knew the real situation over there in our Russian Brotherland, you would get sick. Bohdan 00:54, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

<-- Bohdan, I am sorry for your homeland. I wish, as many do, that your people would know/enjoy the freedoms that so many of us take for granted - I am a Britsh immigrant t othe wonderful wealthy free US myself. I "enjoy" free capitalism by running a business, but decry its abuses. Please, feel free to talk to me via email if you like, or here. I wish to learn from you... and is it trite, to say, I feel your pain? human^{be in} 01:01, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Hey, hey its not that bad there. If you ever want good (though sometimes conservative) news of Ukraine, or to just learn more about it go to this blog here [3]. I noticed its getting late, very late, so I must go. Enjoy your evening. Bohdan 01:07, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

I thank you for your time here, and will read your links "at my leisure". Take care, my friend. human^{be in} 01:13, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Take care yourself also. Bohdan - signing off

Night night, and thank you for stopping by. You are always appreciated, perhaps now, even more than ever? Still, the funniest sysop (the only one?) on CP. You rulz! human^{be in} 01:17, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Hey, you know physics, right?

Please chime in here. Heart♥Gold ^tx 00:21, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Actually, kinda, yeah... sort of a hobby of mine, since I got learned as a kid with the Newtonian thing, and then in college, whoa, Einstein! I opened the link and will chime in if necessary? human^{be in} 00:24, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

I'm fond of Bohm myself.the_anti-drug^{(elk murder)} 00:40, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Gift

Here is something for you:

• добрий день (dobry den) - good day
• пиво (pyvo) - beer
• горілка (horilka) - vodka

and of course,

• козел (kozel) - goat

enjoy Bohdan 03:00, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Awesome, thanks! Now I will have to practice these new words! human^{be in} 14:11, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Hey, sorry for the ownage

But you wrote a nasty word on my talk page. Anyway, I think you had a brain fart...aren't you supposedly a physics student? Heart♥Gold ^tx 03:02, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Yah, sorry about that, no need to apologize. I apologize to you for doing it. human^{be in} 14:04, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

I just reverted myself because I question my *idea* that you were a physics student. Heart♥Gold ^tx 09:13, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

I is, or was. I still "teach" random physics from time to time. In fact, two days ago I was covering acceleration and gravity with my favorite historian! A few weeks ago I was bored so I figured out how long it takes to get to A Centauri with one year each way of one g acceleration. And the time that would pass on earth during the trip out and back. And graphed the effect of more or less time accelerating on the time difference... human^{be in} 14:04, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

You also agreed with some of my changes

Regarding your change comment here, it looks like you agreed with some. I am curious, however, why you don't expect more out of human beings? Specifically, even birds build a nest before laying their eggs (well, most birds in my region). Also, who decides what is mythology, what is a demon, what is a mere god, and who (or if) God exists? Atheists? Heart♥Gold ^tx 10:02, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

1. Probably, yes. Did I leave any unreverted? 2. What did I not expect of human beings? Did imply something in the article's first draft, or at a meta-level? 3. Birds have instincts, like it or not, we don't. 4. Who decides? Hmmm. True believers? I think we should all be raised free to decide for ourselves as adults. This goes for any indoctrination, religious, atheistic, political, etc.

By the way, I purposely wrote the rough draft of child abuse so it was ideology-neutral - hence allowing anyone to see the examples, or at least most of them, from their own perspective. I should go add the atheistic thing to the religious indoctrination part, though, to make it clearer. human^{be in} 14:09, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

How is your quantum physics?

Or are you more of a classical kind of guy? tmtoulouse ^torment 14:16, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Sometimes here, sometimes there, you know? Gawd, I ate that stuff up. It finally helped me model the (un-ionized) atom in my mind. Light still freaks me out, though - on a regular basis. human^{be in} 14:20, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Well I am pestering all the physicist to help me with non-materialist neuroscience article if I sent you a paper would you want to try your hand at disecting the quantum physics fallacies? Also did you get my e-mail a few days ago about my phone number? tmtoulouse ^torment 14:26, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Eh, I could try to help, but my QP is probably not strong enough to pick up subtle distortions or misrepresentations. Gross ones, maybe. So I'll certainly try to help if you want to send me the paper, I just can't promise anything. And, yes I did, thanks, sorry I didn't reply yet to confirm. human^{be in} 15:07, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

I will send it your way, I think the major error there making is their equating the principle that "measurement" changes properties in such a way that "measurement"="consciousness" or "mind." They are trying to say something like a "mind" is needed in quantum physics and there a "mind" manipulates the brain. But my interpretation of the measurement effect is that it does not to have any "mind" property at all. The two-slit vs. one-slit experiments with photons are a "measurement" but the slits are not some how collapsing the wave with a "mind." They are trying to say that the collapse of the wave function and therefore manipulation of the quantum realm is somehow non-materialist........but that just sounds like crap to me. Anyway, I will send it too you. tmtoulouse ^torment 15:12, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

<-Human, do you still contend that heavier (read: more massive) objects fall at the same rate? Do you also contend that a golf ball will fall toward Earth at the same rate as it would fall toward the moon, all other things being equal (specifically, the center to center distance. The mass of the moon and the mass of the Earth ard different, and the "falling" is measured from the Earth or moon frame of reference)? If not on this second point, you acknowledge that the acceleration an object receives at a given height depends on the mass of the object attracting it. Do you acknowledge that in a two object system, each object attracts the other? Just trying to figure out the cause of your error. I assume brain fart, but am not sure. Heart♥Gold^{Deny you're a communist} 15:25, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Well, HG, you've almost changed the terms enough to make yourself correct. Here's the deal - the sun is accelerating towards the center of mass of the sun/earth system at 9.8 m/s^2 (as every object in free fall in the universe is, relative to their center of mass with the earth). Of course, that cm is pretty much inside the sun, and the earth acclerates towards that cm at a much higher rate. Keep in mind that a1 = Gm2/r^2, but you also have to specify the implicit frame of reference - the center of mass of the system. This is why stable orbital periods (and hence the angular speed required to maintain them) only depend on the distance, not the masses involved. Swapping out a pool ball for a neutron star, each at equal distances from the earth moves the frame of reference. human^{be in} 16:07, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

My QM is decent… --Linus^{(plot evil tech)} 15:41, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

I can send you the paper as well if you like. 24.141.169.255 15:45, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Quick background - 1 yr of Newtonian billiards in HS, 1 yr of non-calculus-required physics in college, relativity, QM, QCD, etc. 1 semester course going over that stuff but doing the calculus, and a semester of "electronics" before dropping out and pursuing my own homeschooling program. Trouble is, I was a fool and let go of my physics textbooks. Kept the calc one, though. Darn handy reference, I use it less than the dictionary but more than the bible. human^{be in} 16:07, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Human, you should recuse yourself from all physics articles, and from teaching physics.

That's a rather rude ad hominem, didn't you ever make a mistake? human^{be in} 16:32, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

1. I did not change the terms. The first thing I wrote (over three edits) is still correct.

Above you dragged the moon into the question. human^{be in} 16:32, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

1. The sun does not acclerate toward the Earth at 9.8 m/s². Check your r. A cue ball with the mass of the sun, 3 meters above sea level, would accelerate toward the center of the Earth at about 9.8 m/s² (and the Earth would accelerate toward the cue ball much more quickly).

Correct, I "forgot" r. But the sun accelerates towards the cm, not the earth. It looks the same, but the cm is the frame of reference, not one of the objects. human^{be in} 16:32, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Anyway, tell me what is wrong with this (the contribution that caused DA aka EM to wet his pants) Heart♥Gold^{Deny you're a communist} 16:20, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

"Use the Earth, and a cue ball with the mass of the sun dropped from 10 feet" Undefined. An object as massive as the sun, squeezed into that much space, would either instantly explode or be what we theorize of as a black hole. If it exploded, there'd be no "earth" left to measure the acceleration of, and if it were a black hole, the earth would rapidly "fall" past the event horizon, likewise becoming unmeasureable. human^{be in} 16:30, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Okay, nice red herring. Clearly the context is about whether more massive objects fall toward earth more quickly or more slowly than lighter objects. Physics problems make assumptions, and the assumptions I made are very common in physics problems. If you want to deal with reality, that would be engineering.

Red herring? You made up the sun-mass pool ball, not me. Why is your tone so rude here on this page? human^{be in} 16:49, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Going back to physics, though, using a cue ball with the mass of the sun was to illustrate. However, if you had a cue ball of .1 kg and 1.0 kg, it would still result in a difference of time before impact, if each ball, in sequence, is dropped, according to the scientific models of gravitation, with the more massive ball taking less time than the less massive ball. Heart♥Gold^{Deny you're a communist} 16:40, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

And the ratio of the different times is... I suspect it might resolve to the difference between m1a and m1b divided by mE? Or, at least, the forces would be. Gawd, I wish <math>math</math> worked so we could lay out the equations nicely. Or that we had a blackboard! I haven't even gone and read the B4B piece yet to see what you are "defending", by the way, and I suppose I should. human^{be in} 16:49, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

By the way, HG, I don't mind being wrong. I do, however, mind your rude ad hominem above and accusations of introducing "red herrings". human^{be in} 16:49, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Regarding the moon, it was to help you realize the errors of your ways. It failed, as you claimed the sun accelerates toward the Earth at 9.8 m/s²

Regarding center of mass of both bodies or center of mass of Earth...the direction is exactly the same, so this is a moot point. (Yes, it would not be exactly the same when you take deviations from a perfect sphere into account.) Regarding the frame of reference, on Earth, we have one, it is earth, and when we drop objects in under graduate physics labs, we use it. Making a frame of reference argument to wiggle out of the fact that the fall time (read: time to impact) depends on the distance between the two objects and the mass of *each* object is intellectually dishonest. Just admit you had a brain fart. Heart♥Gold^{Deny you're a communist} 16:46, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Are, there you are again. here is my considered response:

1. You are right about the physics, I stand corrected.
2. You are a very rude debater, Heart. I am now "intellectually dishonest" as well. Did I start this ad hominem thing somewhere or was it your idea? human^{be in} 16:52, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Sorry for being rude to you Human. I am outnumbered, and if you ask me, Devils advocate started the rudeness, which he continued here. When you wrote what you did on my talk page, I assumed you were shifting to DA's hostile camp. I do apologize to you for my rudeness. Heart♥Gold^{Deny you're a communist} 17:00, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Apparantly, my apology above was deemed insufficient by others. I apologize for the "massive and unjustified ad hominom attack against you." Seiously. Heart♥Gold^{Deny you're a communist} 23:44, 18 July 2007 (CDT)

Well, I didn't see the intermediate stages, but I can certainly appreciate and accept the result, which I only have to credit to you. I will strive to put the incident utterly behind me and accept your apology in the spirit in which it is offered. Peace. human^{be in} 01:00, 19 July 2007 (CDT)

Science portal

I have started piecing it together Category:Science check it out and think about how best to integrate it in table of contents/front page. tmtoulouse ^torment 15:06, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Looks good. Next step is to go through allfiles and essay: looking for things to add to the cat. Evolution isn't even in there! Then, it should be "up" with religion and politics, maybe even first. The six "above the fold" portals should be trimmed to maybe 3 example articles if possible. I am also going to try to make category:Sexuality more portal-like (like, I'll steal your formatting!), and add a template to the articles like the CP stuff has. Although, it will always be linked "below the fold" I think on the TOC. human^{be in} 15:17, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

I created a portal namespace, in case anyone wants to use it. --Linus^{(plot evil tech)} 16:49, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Evolution is in there, just under the subcategory of biology. Linus, we seem to be adapting the category page as our "portal" not sure we need the namespace. We can see though. tmtoulouse ^torment 17:39, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

I "portalized" the other links and rearranged some stuff in table of contents and pruned some of our "recommendations" on the front page. tmtoulouse ^torment 20:19, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Yeah I saw, looked good. Question. Should articles in "sub categories" also be in the main category? I think they should. So category:science would be stuffed with articles, the sub cats would only contain their part of the main cat? Does that make sense? PS, tried to call you on your VOIP #, bitch, but you weren't there ;) human^{be in} 20:42, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

fun:Sumit Sikka the poem. tmtoulouse ^torment 21:54, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Family

Nope, I'm not related to anyone..... Except my Family... and even that might be mistaken identity (May Dickens Be With You) SirChuckB 01:07, 17 July 2007 (CDT)

Haha, thanks, yes, I saw that you answered on your talk page. I guess I just didn't acknowledge it. Forgivy meez? human^{be in} 01:10, 17 July 2007 (CDT)

I figured you probably had seen it, but just in case, I didn't want you to feel snubbed by SirChuck, May Dickens be with you SirChuckB 16:53, 18 July 2007 (CDT)

Thanks

Thanks for fixing my mistakes on pascal's wager hard to type straight when you're on like five hours sleep SirChuckB 02:08, 18 July 2007 (CDT)

Hitchens

His book, god is Not GREAT, finally made the bargain bin, 5.99@ Borders. I've been wanting to read a book by him for a while, though I'm finding I don't much like his style, perhaps he's like scotch though and subsequent readings will make me appreciate him more. CЯacke® 22:18, 18 July 2007 (CDT)

He was on either the Daily Show or Colbert, ok, not great talking head, but whatever. He sticks his neck out, and of course, is right. human^{be in} 22:20, 18 July 2007 (CDT)

He does Real time with Bill Maher fairly often. He's a bit to the left of Andrew Sullivan but not by much. He's about in-line with Bill Buckley though not on the same issues. Hawkish, but not stupidly so. ~~ CЯacke® 22:43, 18 July 2007 (CDT)

how?

how are you making your post invisible? That might become my "new thing" here. Bohdan 01:43, 19 July 2007 (CDT)

The same way HG gave you his email address - tagging it as a "comment" in html. Very, very bad wiki-style, hiding words, though. Please don't run with it - why not "unretire"? Doesn't mean you have to hang out often, just makes your talk page "live" again. Hoji comes here and ain't been banned from CP for not being "retired". human^{be in} 01:51, 19 July 2007 (CDT)

I like being retired. But, if you think it is for the best, could you remove the retired from my talk page, but leave it on the userpage?Bohdan

Sure - but so can you. I'll do it for you and "unhide" my note to you. If others ciritcize me for it we may have to remove it from your user page, too, but you can just type "retired" there, or "infrequent vandal". human^{be in} 02:03, 19 July 2007 (CDT)

Go ahead and do whatever is procedure. Two questions;

• Am I still the resident vandal?
• Do I have a vandalism quota? Bohdan 02:06, 19 July 2007 (CDT)

We don't really have a procedure. If no one objects, it's fine. If they do, we adapt and learn.

• Of course you are.
• I think that was discussed, and it came out to a few a day or something - with original or funny vandalism not coming off the quota. A very fluid guideline, of course.
• Did you need a complimentary 2 minute block? They're free! human^{be in} 02:11, 19 July 2007 (CDT)

Not yet. I need to work a few things out first. Bohdan 02:12, 19 July 2007 (CDT)

Ah, you're such a schemer! human^{be in} 02:16, 19 July 2007 (CDT)

• look where I direct my victims to complain _talkResident vandal^{complain here} 02:25, 19 July 2007 (CDT) (your talk page! hahahaha!)

Oh noes!!!!!! Pwned!!!11!11oneone11!!!! human^{be in} 02:39, 19 July 2007 (CDT)

Pages you've started

I think this may be giving you credit for pages you've moved, but I'm not sure.

I'm filtering out talk, user, template, and image pages. I can give you the list with those included if you want, but it jumps from 108 items to 600something.

(list deleted by Human to make future cleanup easier) human^{be in} 20:59, 12 September 2007 (MDT)

--71.197.128.63 01:37, 12 July 2007 (CDT)